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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So funny.

    Same thing in Ocean City, MD. Some of the trailers cost more than a nice condo because they include the land (the condo's land is shared).

    I wonder if showing casually dressed surfers would resonate better with Malibu buyers. New York fashionistas? Do they even drive? If they did would it be a large sedan?

    M-B sponsors fashion week and I think that image fits a lot better.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    edited October 2012
    Is the hippest car in Malibu a 1975 Pontiac Firebird?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    ages ago, like back in the 1980's, I vaguely remember a commercial that was advertising some kind of gum or fruit juice or something. It had a surfer-dude type who was trying the competition's product and saying it was flat and dull and, like Malibu, man. But then he tried the stuff in the commercial and went "Kowa-BUNGA" or something along those lines.

    My memory's really, really vague with respect to that commercial, but I took it to mean that Malibu wasn't a hip place to be if you were a surfer dude. And, it was also around the time that if you were a young person driving a Malibu, it was a hand-me-down from your parents (guilty as charged, although I liked my Malibu!) so it probably wasn't considered a very hip car, either, unless you had some old SS or something
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agreed. Thing is, GM is still behind the leaders in automotive.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/16/toyota-recovers-from-recalls-mother-nature-to- -regain-customer-l/

    GM is 2nd, not bad.

    Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, is how they ranked.

    Chevy Sonic was #1 but that's a head scratcher since it's so new.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/16/2013-buick-verano-turbo-first-drive-review-vi- deo/

    We enjoyed the 2012 Verano when we drove it last year, but we like the 2013 Verano Turbo a full letter grade more. The additional horsepower, mild suspension tweaks and other enhancements improve this four-door so effectively that it leaves Acura, Lexus and Audi standing on a noticeably lower platform. The compact entry-level luxury sedan segment appears to have a new leader – and, for the first time ever, it's wearing a Buick badge.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    I wonder how many Sonic buyers bought it for the gas mileage, decided it was too small for them, and then went back to trade for a larger Chevrolet passenger car.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    Nice looking car, but the chrome "eyebrows" over the taillights should only be as long as the taillights themselves.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    I'm really not that impressed with the Sonic's fuel economy. The most common configuration is probably going to be the 1.8/6-speed auto, which is rated at 25/35. So you have a subcompact (although I think the EPA barely classfiies it as a compact) that gets the same economy as a Toyota Camry. And worse than a 2013 Altima or Accord.

    GM's larger cars aren't particularly class-leading, either. The Cruze, with the 1.8/6-speed auto, is rated 22/35. The larger Malibu, with its 2.5/6-speed auto, is only rated 22/34.

    So, unless you're looking for a less expensive car, or you live in an area with extremely tight parking and the shorter length is beneficial to you, I just don't see the point of the Sonic. At least, not in 4-door sedan form. The hatch, at least, gives you some versatility. But if it's fuel economy you're after, you're actually better off with a midsized car from the Japanese competition than you are with a Sonic...unless you go for the higher-priced turbo model, perhaps. Or get a stick.

    Of Chevy's crop of small-ish cars, I think I like the Cruze the best. It's smaller and less expensive than the Malibu, but IMO at least, makes better use of its interior room, so it ends up feeling about the same size inside. The back seat actually seemed roomier to me. At least, I remember being able to squeeze into the back seat of a Cruze at one of the GM shows. When I looked at a Malibu, it looked so inhospitable I wasn't even about to attempt it!

    Looks like this small car fuel economy discrepancy isn't just a GM thing, though. Here are the stats for Toyota:

    Yaris 1.5/4-speed auto: 30/36
    Corolla 1.8/4-speed auto: 26/34
    Camry 2.5/6-speed auto: 25/35

    The discrepancy between the Corolla and Camry is negligible, although the Yaris gives you a nice little bump. I guess Toyota at least has the excuse that they haven't updated the Yaris and Corolla powertrains. The Corolla is still using the same powertrain combo that my uncle's old 2003 Corolla, purchased Memorial Day Weekend 2002, has! In automotive terms, that's pre-historic!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I agree Andre. I think the Cruze is the only Chevy car I'd consider at this point.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Nice looking car, but the chrome "eyebrows" over the taillights should only be as long as the taillights themselves.

    I agree - that's the styling killer for me.
    I have also literally only seen *one* Verano so far here in Southern California.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I've seen quite a few Veranos lately. Usually driven by little old ladies.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The Verano's probably taken the place of the market for the Century.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    Isn't it much more expensive than the old Century? It sure LOOKS more expensive.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I believe a Verano can be had for around $23K. Yeah, it does look more expensive than the late unlamented Century. That car had an interior so barren it made a Chevrolet Biscayne look like a Lexus LS460!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,382
    A Trabi looks more expensive than the old Century
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,917
    To get the Verano with the reasonably decent engine, expect to pay $29,000 before TT&L fees.

    Here again, I guess GM is employing the price it $5K too high and then offer big multi-thousand dollar rebates to make up for it?

    There is no reason this car should be more than $25K (I haven't test driven it yet, but come on!).
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Someone mentioned the Malibu a while back but it turns out that the Buick Verano is Cannibalizing Regal Sales (The Truth About Cars).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I mentioned a while back I thought it was possible the Malibu could hurt Regal sales, but looking at monthly sales numbers, the Regal has nose dived since the Verano has been out.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    And now we're back to GM's number 1 problem: they continue to compete with themselves.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    $25K? The Verano Turbo is top of the class and a bargain at $29K. Every test thus far has been stellar. Here's a sample and every other review has been very positive.

    Autoblog Test
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    edited October 2012
    I never thought that the Regal was a good fit for Buick. Customers looking for a European sports sedan aren't visiting the Buick dealer, and people visiting a Buick dealer do not, by and large, want a European sports sedan.

    A better approach would have been to offer a "juiced up" version of the Chevrolet Malibu and call it the Malibu Super Sport. Chevrolet should be the performance division, especially with Ford offering an ST version of the Focus (and, it's rumored, ST versions of the Fiesta and Fusion).

    The LaCrosse and new Verano are much more in line with Buick's image. Plus, there was a fair amount of overlap with the Regal and both the Verano and LaCrosse when it came to size and price. I really can't figure out how this car "fits" in the Buick line-up.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    Someone (okay, it was Dieselone again) brought up the Malibu turbo a while back too. Sounded pretty juicy, but emphasizing Super Sport instead of turbo would probably help sales.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The LaCrosse and new Verano are much more in line with Buick's image

    So true. Doesn't help them change it, but maybe they shouldn't. Aren't Baby Boomers retiring?
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited October 2012
    Aren't Baby Boomers retiring?

    Yes, and GM took away the car that best fits that demographic. And that is the Buick Lucerne. The exterior styling is gorgeous but the interior is dated.

    GM could have used the LaCrosse's interior styling for inspiration and modernize the Lucerne. Cadillac does not have a substantial upscale model to fit the Boomer profile nor does Buick and they wonder why they've lost sales to Audi, Lexus, and Mercedes Benz.

    The Baby Boomers have the money to buy upscale cars but GM is ignoring this market segment. This is so vexing that Alfred Sloan is probably spinning in his grave.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I think you are not necessarily reading the baby boomers right. Just because we are getting old doesn't mean that we are looking for what our folks liked at our age. I mean my dad leased Devilles for ages. Had he kept that up to his last lease I'd have bought the car but just because it was dad's. I have no interest in such a thing now.

    Look at known boomers in here. I have four cars, the largest of which in an 07 Camry. The others are an 07 Solara, an 00 Accord and a 99 Celica. The Accord and Celica won't get replaced. My kids have them and once they die it will be the kids' problem to replace them. When the Camry and Solara need to be replaced (which may never happen) I'd likely go smaller. If money somehow gets better I'd love a CPO 3 series convertible but otherwise will end up in maybe a Mazda 3 or GTI.

    Take our host Steve - another boomer - he's got his Outback and Quest and will likely keep them until you can't find parts for them. When you hear him talk replacement he's not looking big.

    Boomers will probably buy a load of Priii. I'll bet they are the market for teh C-Maxx.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I think you're correct in your assessment. Painting a large group with a broad brush is always subject to an incorrect judgment.

    Around the upstate of SC, I see boomers driving everything from Malibu/Cruze's to minivans, hybrids, BMWs & MB's, Kia's... and everything in between.

    I'd be hard-pressed to make anything like an accurate judgment call as to what makes and models are, or should be classified as primarily "boomer" models.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The Baby Boomers have the money to buy upscale cars but GM is ignoring this market segment. This is so vexing that Alfred Sloan is probably spinning in his grave.

    Well, they also ignored the small premium sedan segment for over two decades while BMW, Audi, MB, and even VW cleaned up. GM was claiming there was no money to be made in small cars. :surprise:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I think you are not necessarily reading the baby boomers right. Just because we are getting old doesn't mean that we are looking for what our folks liked at our age.

    Excellent observation. I'm in my mid '50s and have no desire for the big iron. Smaller and premium is the desired segment. I've talked with my wife and our ideal "retirement" cars are a small SUV (a la Audi Q5) and small premium sedan (a la MB C-class or similar).
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yep. I'm 61 (wife's only 53) and on a smaller budget than you but that's pretty close to the idea. Maybe, say a Forrester and and a Mazda 6 or 3.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • smalltownsmalltown Member Posts: 75
    I am a boomer & will be retiring in the next 2 or 3 years. I'll buy a new car. Currently, my list includes Kia Soul, Hyundai Elantra GT and Ford Focus hatchback. I don't want anything bigger. I might look at the Ford C-Max and the Hyundai Veloster.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,917
    GM was claiming there was no money to be made in small cars.

    There was no money to be made for GM on any size car, let alone small cars; hence the bankruptcy and bailouts. You don't go bankrupt by avoiding the size of cars that don't make money. Obviously, they made plenty of larger cars that didnt make money either.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Excellent post. GM abandoned ALL CARS for such a very long time. Even when they made boatloads of money, the burned twice as much....on the UAW.

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Yep. I'm 61 (wife's only 53) and on a smaller budget than you but that's pretty close to the idea. Maybe, say a Forrester and and a Mazda 6 or 3.

    Oh, I didn't say we WOULD get those vehicles! They are only ideas of our *desired* vehicles! We might be able to spring it if we bought used....
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    I'm in my mid '50s and have no desire for the big iron. Smaller and premium is the desired segment.

    You and fezo made good points but that represent only one segment of the 77 million Boomer market. Although it's anecdotal but my experience has been different. At two Buick dealerships they said their hottest sellers are two-year old Lucernes. The demand is so strong for the Lucerne that they actively scourer the internet looking for used Lucernes to sell as CPOs.

    By the way I saw an aubergine colored Lucerne parked in front of my office building and wow the Lucerne looks good in this color. Even the younger would stop and look at this impressive machine.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,652
    >The demand is so strong for the Lucerne that they actively scour the internet looking for used Lucernes to sell as CPOs.

    The leSabre/Park Avenue is the real missing component in Buick's lineup. When they discontinued the Buick leSabre and to some extent when it moved to the basic chasis of the Aurora/Seville is when they lost a popular car that provided very comfortable transportation with good fuel economy for highway driving. I don't recall the logic stated for elimination of the leSabre, but the Lucerne never felt right to me when I sat in it and drove one. Maybe it's my mindset at the time that they shouldn't have discontinued the leSabre. Maybe it's the car, but I have considered purchase of another leSabre rather than a newer car if something were to happen to one of our 3 cars right now.

    >"aubergine"

    I had to go look that word up on Wiki. Is this the color on the car? I'm a visual person and like to see the color:

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Oh, gotcha! Used is good. I went from buying used out of necessity to buying new to buying used out of choice. Generally two years or so old with lowish mileage. I'm happy to let someone else eat the big depreciation.

    When I got my Solara convertible it was 4 years old, had 42K on it and cost half what it did new.

    imid - they are going to have to bring back the LeSabre. If nothing else they need something to sell you down the road. The leSabre wasn't my cup of tea but they are fine vehicles and I understand why people like them. Economical, comfy and quiet. Dependable, too.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    I agree, Buick needs a full-size sedan right now. Here's why:

    image

    66,000,000 people live in these states and many still want a full-size car. Buick doesn't offer what built the brand.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    You and fezo made good points but that represent only one segment of the 77 million Boomer market. Although it's anecdotal but my experience has been different. At two Buick dealerships they said their hottest sellers are two-year old Lucernes. The demand is so strong for the Lucerne that they actively scourer the internet looking for used Lucernes to sell as CPOs.

    It also might matter where you live. I don't know if you're from the midwest, but here in CA I don't see many GM sedans - mostly Cruzes and some Regals. I've literally seen ONE Verano since it's come out and I drive over 15k miles/year here. The GM vehicles we see here are the trucks and SUVs. Not a lot of GM sedans and even fewer Buicks. I rarely see Lucernes and I'd be surprised if they were in high demand from the general public.
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    >"aubergine" I had to go look that word up on Wiki. Is this the color on the car?

    Yes, that’s it but the color is even more striking in daylight. Aubergine is a fancy word for eggplant. But in the Buick rendering it is more a cross between eggplant and cabernet.

    To those who mentioned the LeSabre, I totally agree. I remember driving around the Kentucky countryside in a LeSabre and Oh, what a joy that was.

    By the way, what is the history behind Buick using French names for their cars?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm on the lookout for either a Buick Lucerne Super or the rarer LaCrosse Super. Either would make an excellent replacement for my aging Grand Marquis.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    That map needs a little red spot on the SE corner of Pennsylvania to include me! The LaCrosse is fine for my petite little wife, but I want a true full-sized Buick. Build it, and I will come. I often refer to the Lucerne as my version of the wife's car - especially an eight-cylinder CXS.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,824
    Visited my high-school buddy and his wife in Columbus a week or so ago. They are mid-50's and no kids. They said they don't know what they'll buy next time (have a '07 Grand Prix for the wife and an '11 Escape for the hubby). They both said they liked the Lucerne but they're aware it's gone.

    I liked the Lucerne too...but I always thought I'd HAVE to have whatever model got you that chrome strip along the bottom of the trunk lid...without it, the rear end is too plain! ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,824
    When I first rode in a new '77 Caprice Classic, I was stunned at how absolutely quiet the car was (even compared to our new Impala of the same model year). What happened to that as something to aspire to? My coworker's new Escape isn't particularly quiet, and I rode in a rental Camry with 18K miles and the tires almost sounded like tractor tires.

    WTH?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    1. The road is your friend
    2. Isolation is bad
    3. Not hearing the siren of that gentleman with the flashing lights and large handgun is also bad.
    5. Soundproofing is heavy, and weight hurts fuel economy
    6. Soundproofing is heavy, requiring more engine power
    7. Living room couches belong in living rooms, not on wheels.
    8. Most cars now come with active noise cancellation systems called "stereos."

    Here endeth the lesson. :)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    edited October 2012
    What happened to that as something to aspire to?

    I know in my case, I've just gotten older and more jaded, with different priorities. Honestly, there isn't anything out there, automotive-wise, that I aspire to.

    I think part of the problem is that cars just don't change that drastically like they used to back in the day. The designers have lost the ability to come out with something that suddenly makes last-year's model seem ancient.

    And that's what the '77 B-body did. It was vastly better in most respects than the '76 model. There were some compromises though, mainly in the wagon. The '76 could tow up to 7,000 lb and had over 100 cubic feet of cargo volume, whereas the '77 was limited to around 5,000, and had about 87 cubic feet.

    The '77 also had a larger transmission and driveshaft hump than the '76, which did take its toll on 3-across seating. And a combination of shorter wheelbase with more intrusive rear wheel wells, and larger windows meant that the back windows only went down about half-way on the 4-door, rather than most of the way like they did in '76. Plus, there was the loss of the 4-door hardtop.

    But, on the whole the car handled better, got better fuel economy, was more reliable, a better performer, had a bigger trunk, and a better seating position.

    I think the last car that really made everything else at the time look old was the 1986 Taurus.

    I know we've discussed this before, but I think the simple lack of options, color choices, drivetrains, etc also takes a bit of the excitement out of new cars these days. At least, for me it does.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'm not buying the lesson plan. You don't need tire and road noise to be a competent driver. These noises are because car manufacturer's are cutting costs where they can by reducing noise insulation and making cars lighter and tires geared to mileage to improve their Car and Driver specs. Toyota and Ford lately seem to be particularly bad in this area. Ironically, the new Honda products seem to be getting a bit better in this area.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Oh my word, less dead weight, and more efficient tires whatever is the industry coming to! :shades:

    Get over it. You want noise insulation? You can buy it relatively cheap, just add it on to whatever car you like. Given that most OEM tires suck anyway, your first purchase for a new car should be some G019 Grids or Conti DWSs or whatever your preferred tire is, and if you like quiet, buy a quiet touring tire. Or just turn up the friggin radio.

    It's not like there's nothing you can do about a noisy ride. If you refuse to do anything about it, that's your problem, not the manufacturer's. I would assume you test drive the car beforehand and noticed it's not terribly quiet.

    I hear the new Bentley is real quiet, if you like. :shades:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Huh? What are you someone from the auto industry. I think it's ridiculous to accept excessive tire and road noise in a vehicle if you don't like it. You sound like the old Detroit trying to impose your opinion on everyone else. Personally, if a car is too noisy, I just go with something else. Different consumers have different priorities - it's called "competition" and "consumer choice". I'm not trying to dictate what an individual prefers and you shouldn't either.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2012
    Ironically, the new Honda products seem to be getting a bit better in this area.

    There's at least one recent potential buyer over in the Honda CR-V Road Noise discussion who appears to have decided on an Outback because she felt the CR-V was still too noisy. Consumers do weigh that kind of stuff when they car shop (although driving a new car straight to a tire shop to trade in the OEM tires makes a lot of sense too).
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