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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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That said, I still come here regularly to be abused. Most of the other posters are well worth reading.
Cars in December 2012 averaged 33 days to turn. That's an uptick versus both November 2012's 28 days and December 2011's 29 days. As is custom this time of year, we looked only at 2013 inventory in December since dealers have cleared out the majority of 2012s. Here are the fastest and slowest sellers:
December Movers
2013 Mercedes-Benz GL350 Bluetec: 7 days
2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek: 7 days
2013 GMC Acadia: 8 days
2013 Toyota Avalon: 8 days
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid: 8 days
2013 Ford F-250 crew cab: 10 days
2013 Ford F-350 crew cab: 10 days
2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid: 10 days
2013 Honda Civic sedan: 10 days
2013 Nissan Pathfinder: 11 days
2013 Subaru Impreza hatchback: 12 days
2013 Audi Q5: 13 days
2013 Mercedes-Benz GL450: 13 days
2013 Scion FR-S: 14 days
2013 Toyota Prius v: 14 days
2013 BMW 328i xDrive sedan: 15 days
2013 Buick Enclave: 15 days
2013 Kia Soul: 15 days
December Losers
2013 Chevrolet Malibu Eco: 135 days
2013 Mazda6: 123 days
2013 Volvo XC90: 99 days
2013 Cadillac Escalade Hybrid: 99 days
2013 Acura ILX Hybrid: 96 days
2013 Smart ForTwo convertible: 91 days
2013 Volkswagen CC: 84 days
2013 Nissan GT-R: 82 days
2013 Kia Forte hatchback: 76 days
2013 Acura ILX: 76 days
Specifically, would they credit BMW a "0" for a custom ordered X5d? We have numerous friends who own ML's and GL's that bought off the lot or on incoming pre-speced vehicles, but none of them took the time to custom order a car. I've now personally succeeded in recommending three X5d buyers to custom order and 2 of the 3 took delivery at the Performance Delivery Center. In the meantime, that dealer had the same odd color, overloaded 2012 X5d on their lot from August until they finally sold it in December. But if they didn't have at least one X5d to test drive, they would have had trouble doing numerous custom orders in the meantime.
So I think the "pent up demand" & roiling in the markets can be an under represented outlet for factory orders and factory pick up for the oems and models that offer it: specifically diesels. It certainly has created conditions for below invoice for so call more limited demand (diesel) vehicles.
I know that VW has for a long time offered factory orders but not delivery. Habitat 1 seems to indicated BMW offers factory pick up. I seem to remember another poster (fin tail?) doing an AL, MB tour, but he did not take delivery in AL.
Is the F350 a diesel? If so that's 2 diesels in the top 10.
ILX is overpriced, Acura needs to lower the price plain and simple.
GT-R price crept up and it's no longer fresh. Plus it's not like they sell one every day.
Funny to see a Kia in the top and near the bottom, and they're similar cars.
I think what they do is look at current inventory, then the sales rates, and estimate how many days it would take to sell out of all the current inventory.
Mercedes has nothing that comes close and even Porsche's European Delivery program doesn't get you onto a track for less than an additional $2,500. The BMW program was developed by a former Porsche executive and they really do it right. What is not widely known is that you can custom order any model BMW - including the M's - have them made in Germany, but delivered to Spartanburg for your pick-up and Performance Delivery Center experience.
BMW's program is, IMO, also consistent with their product design and marketing towards "driving enthusiasts". As a friend of mine said after buying his wife a GL (he drives an older 911), her "enthusiasm" was more about how nice the lighted vanity mirrors were. If you put a GL (or MDX) on a track with an X5 (or Cayenne), they would probably tip over trying to keep up. The former do luxury and do-dads very well, so no need to have a track experience that would point out what they don't do quite as well.
Rebates are built in to the high prices nowadays, loaded 4 bangers can hit mid $30s!
Depressingly we're beginning to hear rumors that a Forester hybrid may be coming, that would mean no hope for the diesel to come here.
Toyota influence over them, perhaps?
Well no. The US policies are hybrid and ethanol. Why would "puny" Subie want to go up against the GIANT TMC? If SUBIE fails in an unrelated market (diesel) and do not do well in the related market (gasser hybrid) they are not even nimble fish that can dodge the GW sharks (TMC). Indeed SUBIE becomes chum by its own hands.
Evidently S's management believes it is a significant to HUGE risk (diesels) and they do not have the Subie file market that would support that product they would need to sell to B/E let alone make a profit. In other words, there are not enough of people like you. Getting new SUBIE fans evidently is tough sledding, let alone keeping the faithful...faithful.
The news du jour in the financial markets are US market gasoline use is down and exported diesel is UP world wide. Now the US systems are PO'd since the flogging they have done to citizens using RUG/PUG (most of population @ 95%) are driving down TAX revenues from RUG to PUG. This of course is one more excuse for ever increasing RUG/PUG prices even as demand is lessening and getting even .... less. So even as diesel getting more MPG than RUG/PUG users, there are significant improvements (on topic: MPG) to the RUG to PUG products
In an off topic but on topic issue, remember that TMC has been building diesels for easily 27 years (1986 TLC TDI that I am aware of)
Aren't we all glad the administration is making things cheaper with all these "SAVINGS"? :shades: :lemon:
Going hybrid puts them up against the big guns directly.
I'm surprised by the decision.
I think the Forester Hybrid would be a big mistake and disappointment to people that buy Subarus. They expect their vehicles to go where others fear to tread. The Toyota hybrid SUVs have proven their Wussiness and poor off road capability. Then maybe Subaru engineers are unable to build a diesel that will pass the Eco Nut gauntlet put up by CARB. Happened to Honda.
Totally agree with the 2nd paragraph. Grunty diesel would better fit their image.
Most of the local 2012 inventory looks like $26k and above.
The discussion is relevant because Subaru is small, so if they do green light a hybrid that means a diesel is likely not getting CARB certification for sale in the USA.
They don't have the resources to do both.
Americans seem to be allergic to manual transmissions, so that could have been what sealed its fate:
There are no changes in output - it's still 126kW/235Nm in the 2.5-litre four-cylinder petrol and 108kW/350Nm in the 2.0-litre turbo diesel. The entry-level 2.0-litre petrol four gives 110kW/198Nm. But, like the turbo diesel model, it comes only with a manual gearbox for now.
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/news/forester-is-slick-on-any-surface/story-fnejnq7a-1226- 531248795#ixzz2HQ4X4QcX
That's just a myth. :P
Frankly, I think that hybrids are and have always been a transitional technology. That market should be left to the big players, and the little guys should focus on implementing the proven technology (and doing it better than the big players).
Diesel is absolutely the way to go. I'd get one tomorrow if they offered it.
Argh! Such a shame that they eliminated low range on that model. I'd LOVE to have a transfer case on my Forester. Heck, I would have paid extra ($1K or more) to have it as an option. *sniffles*
Now add a high torque diesel and it would go UP that near vertical hill, too.
Same site has an interesting graph comparing Petrol Prices & Taxes in OECD Countries down toward the bottom of the page. Looks like taxes are the biggest factor.
Then again Brazil is worse, yet fuel costs are higher.
Sounds like the EU is going to crack down a bit and perhaps end diesel subsidies. Maybe our diesel will get cheaper.
European Union has to crack down on diesel (Reuters)
Had to get a smog (every other year in CA on 2009 VW TDI). What a total waste of time and resources. ! Easiest fees the smog only station tech and owner gets. Almost everything on a TDI are just visual inspections. In the course of the inspection and conversation, he pressed more than once the mpg on the diesel. First time I said, it is all right. I guess he was not satisfied and asked several more times. When I told him, he looked at me like the old RCA dog of old.
For that matter even on 17 year old gasser SUV (200,000 miles), another total waste of time. Essentially without getting technical, it throws off the same numbers when NEW ! :shades: :lemon:
It would seem the system tolerates price per mile driven fuel as a state secret. Every body thinks I pay more (@ 3.95/3.99) for D2. Needless to say it is in their "logic" when PUG is @ 3.71 and RUG @ 3.51. www.fueleconomy.gov @ 39.6 mpg, 28.5 mpg and 26 mpg which comes out to (per mile driven fuel @ .09975, .. 1302 , 13.5. I just smile and think 30.5% to 35.3% MORE per mile driven fuel ,.... let's move on.... So how about them fiscal cliffs?
I wonder, with the facelift E-class coming, if there will be any sweet leases on leftover 2013 diesel models. Still waiting for that diesel C to come around, last time I asked, salesman looked at me like I was speaking in tongues. Same place that told me it was just around the corner - 2 years ago. MBUSA has diesel in almost everything but the C now. Or better yet, maybe an A250 Bluetec.
Still no E350 Bluetec wagon either, now that I think of it. The urea tech doesn't scare me, seems like an easy DIY job.
The BlueTec, AdBlue as it is more commonly known is a very straight forward DIY procedure, albeit in the VW T in the trunk area, ringed by the space saver spare tire. This particular one (VW T) seems to be on a 5 gal consumption track in app 15,000 miles.
These variations lead me to believe that some stations carry diesel as a specialty or afterthought and price it as high as they think they can, while others carry it as a primary product that price more competitively. I suspect as more diesel passenger vehicles make it into the market, there will be greater competitiveness and consistency in pricing.
Shell diesel you can pay $3.99 up to $4.67. Even USA Gasoline, the new kids in town, vary from $3.55 to $4.01
Diesel seems to take forever to drop, but it doesn't jump up as quickly either. Could be that they refill their supply less often? Maybe they only feel the prices changes a bit less often?
Just a guess.