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Pontiac GTO
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I've seen a picture of the car with scoops on another site. Look's alot like an old T/A hood to me.
[P.S., a quick digression ... the Pontiac GTO reminds me - takes me back - to when I first began driving and my mother had this ugly light green 1981 or so Grand Prix (around the time they down-sized the GP body) with an auto. V8 in it and RWD!! Way too much engine for the car, especially in the winter months here in the Great Lakes region. But, man did it move, and was its acceleration ever fun. As a dumb 16-year-old kid, I didn't understand what I had at the time. I took the "family car" GP for granted before everything out there became a weak six or four, FWD. Also, I always coveted the local guys' muscle cars I saw in and around my neighborhood near Youngstown, OH where GM Lordstown was, and is, king. We didn't have many "extras" growing up; actually we didn't have "jack" for many, many years in this depressed steel community of the 1970s and 1980s (also, very young parents!), so those types of cars were out of the question for me as I tried to save for college, but I always thought ... someday. I'll work hard, and ... someday. I've also always said that if they would just bring back the classic muscle car with that type of auto. power plant (I like the auto. due to heavier work-day commute, etc.), and with some of the modern conveniences ... well, here it is, this awesome "sleeper." Can't wait. Peace.]
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The next version of the GTO: Any changes coming there?
It depends on what you mean by the next version. We will have an '05, which is still basically the same body but with some very significant changes which I think will surprise and please some people.
You haven't said what they are. Hood scoop?
We're not saying, but we always knew that with a car like the GTO, you can't stand still. The next generation is a few years out so it's still too early to talk about, but the GTO will be a permanent fixture with Pontiac.
complete article found here
http://www.boston.com/cars/articles/2004/04/25/redesigning_genera- - l_motors_with_style_energy?pg=2
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
That's what I did when I first heard about Holden Commodore a few years ago.
Having said that, I really like the GTO because it reminds of the Catera in the fact that it has a European look and build quality is excellent. However, GM's European/Australian subsidiaries don't have Japanese reliability. While I love my Catera, it has been a reliability nightmare and I'm sure GM has put over $10,000 in fixing my 2000 Catera. The difference is that Cadillac typically has good customer service (esp. compared to Pontiac) and offers a 4yr/50K warranty. I have a Caddy certified used warranty which means 6yrs/100K bumper to bumper coverage and I'm sure I'll be using it often. Pontiac offers 3yr/36K on a GTO that will be extremely expensive to fix and will probably not have stellar reliability if it is anything like a Catera or most other GM products. The saving grace is that the GTO has an US made engine with a good reputation. The Saab 3.0L V6 used in the Catera is absolute garbage and the source of a lot of the Catera's problems.
I know I'm rambling but the thought of buying a non-typical GM car at a Pontiac dealership with a 3 year warranty is absolutely frightening. And hopefully the resale value of the GTO will not follow the way of the Catera, which probably has the worst resale value of any car on the road. My 2000 was $35K new and I bought it for $16K just 3 years later and it was absolutely mint with 27,000 miles and a 100K warranty. 97 Cateras in good shape go for about $3,500 - $5,000 on Ebay.
The GTO may be my next car but GM needs to up the warranty first. I also want to rebadge the car as a Holden but am not sure how difficult that would be. I rebadged my Catera as a Vauxhall and it was very easy and provided excellent results.
Jeff
Those paying large premiums to be the first GTO owner on the block will hopefully want to hold onto the car for a very long time.
I don't think the GTO will have reliability issues. If you look at other cars with the same engine/trans, they are fairly reliable. Even mercedes, bmw, jaguar, etc have problems, so for a high performance car at $33k, you can't be too demanding, all makes at any price will have problems from time to time.
Resale value on the GTO is hard to predict. I would be willing to bet that it does better then the old F-body's. Who knows, it may end up the like the '95-'96 Impala SS, which probably has the best resale value on the road.
As far as the Catera and GTO sharing platforms, yes they do, but it's just the "frame" they share. Engine, tranny, all electricals, interior pieces, suspension bits, all Monaro/GTO. The Catera's reliability and the GTO's isn't comparable, too many differences.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I read on another forum that deals for anyone walking in the door are being cut for prices ranging from $170 over invoice to $2K off msrp. My guess is that these deals are for cars that have been on the dealer's lot too long. Wonder how many they sold in April?
Another 650 hit the streets in April, for about 2,450 for the year. So in line with the other months.
Actually the GTO (monaro) doesnt share its platform with the Catera. Looking at holden's history, their first and only "sharing" of cars with europe nearly sent them bankrupt. Why? because of reliability issues i.e. doors falling off in holdens testing grounds, creaks, and basically fell apart in Australia's rough terrain. This damaged holdens "tough, durable, simple and reliable" image, as a result Holden vowed to NEVER use European platform again. The platform Holdens use today are vhastly different, not only are the longer and wider, they are also stronger (among other things). Holdens use the VT platform, this came out in 97. The monaro or GTO's platform is unique, this was made in 99 and went into production in 2001. I would hardly call the GTO's platform OLD.
As for interior quality, ergonomics and design. Compare the interior of the GTO with any other American car. The GTO's interior is classy and functional, even against CTSV's. IMV the GTO's interior and comfort surpasses that of many BMW's, and is closer to top VW's and audis (widely regarded in the design world as the world leaders in car design). Holden management are aiming to for audi and VW (design) in their new VE.
Its common knowledge that Europe has some of the best cars. However when holden gave them the monaro it was roundly praised (build quality, handling, room, design).
Here is A REVIEW OF THE MONARO FROM EUROPE
------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
'Champagne quality at lager prices.' That's Vauxhall's verdict on the forthcoming Monaro, which has 'come screeching into the UK' with the promise of 6.0-second, 160mph performance - at an almost absurd-sounding £28,650.
Looking vaguely like an Omega coupe, the Monaro is an Aussie-built Holden model brought to the UK in one of the bolder badge-engineering exercises you're likely to see.
And 'bold' is definitely one of the words you could use to describe it, thanks to its in-yer-face styling and 5.7-litre V8 engine - which puts 329bhp and 343lb ft to the floor through a six-speed manual gearbox and, sing, choirs of angels, rear-wheel drive powertrain. Combined fuel consumption of less than 20mpg might not do your heart much good, but if ya wanna play...
No doubt, then, that this is a pure muscle car in the old-school tradition. Or is it? With twin front and side airbags, seatbelt pre-tensioners, anti-submarining ramps and even (pah, eeeuw, ptui) child restraint anchor points, as well as an LED centre brake light, active front head restraints and seat backs and various failure warning systems, the safety spec reads more like that of a sensible family car.
No, hang on, it can't be a sensible family car. Not with leather, cruise, dual-zone climate, power everything, park assist, trip computer, smart wipers and headlamps, six-disc CD ICE with wheel-mounted controls, alloy pedals and advanced NVH counter-measures... that all sounds more like the preserve of a pretty high-ranking exec model.
But then, what's this? Sports suspension, switchable traction control (aka a fun button), a rear LSD, 18-inch alloys with 235/40 R18 tyres and a special 'make noise' exhaust... you might even be forgiven for picking up more of a super-coupe vibe from it. Especially as there'll be a 380bhp version coming along in the summer, featuring 'all of the above and much, much more.'
Confused yet? It's a supercar, a family car (albeit only with two doors), a luxury car... is the Monaro all things to everyone, possibly? Well, with that sort of price tag it might also start giving the value-or-death brigade a bit of a bleeding nose - because as Vauxhall modestly points out, it costs 20% less than a Mercedes CLK 320, 25% less than a BMW M3 and 40% less than a BMW 6 Series.
According to Jeremy Clarkson the monaro is a "cut price BMW M3". i agree.
BTW is anyone has a copy of that article, please forward it to me as I can't find it anymore.
I remmember that....the commodore came second I think(?) The M5 won, followed by the HSV then the Merc. However the HSV was the best handler (for a race driver). Drivers were a swede touring car champ, mark skaif and a brit.
Based on '04 GTO sales to date it looks like they will sell about 7400 for the year unless they have some big summer sales months.
Anybody think they'll cut-off production after June or July and try to release the "improved" '05 with their other models?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I would love to buy for GMS price... but I'm holding out for the '05. I wonder how many of us are holding out? Think the demand for '05's will be significantly higher than for the '04 because we all waited?? (meaning dealers won't need incentives to move them?)
Like some others, I personally don't think there will be an LS1 and LS2 offered in the same year... all '05's will get the same engine; we just don't know which at this point.... although the point someone made that GM won't build both LS1's and LS2's at the same time seems to be a pretty convincing argument for the LS2.
If the dealer is still holding to that much above MSRP, they will have the cars a long time. And that is doing a disservice to the car's reputation. The midwest dealers are moving them now at GMS. Will be interesting to see the May sales vs. past months.
The dealer with the 7 (plus another one listed on GM BuyPower which I haven't seen on the lot yet) claims he is not expecting any/many more 2004's, so these must last him until October (traditional new model year introduction). That would mean he has to sell only 1 or 2 per month to make 'em last, meaning he can hold out for those few nuts who will pay the premium for one. This is the same dealer who, believe it or not, still has one or two Trans Am's left-over (from 2002) at a mark-up above MSRP! By the way, this guy also advertises as the #1 Pontiac dealer in Florida (total units sold).
It must be a nightmare to try and predict/plan/schedule the right colors/options/packages. It is not like a Grand Prix, where if the dealer dosen't have the "right" combo, he can factory order in about a month.
And now we know that the Trans AM "retired" to Florida. ;-)
In another Edmunds forum, there was a rumor of a RWD Monte Carlo as early as 2006??!!! No details as to which platform might be used, etc...
In still another Edmunds forum, there was mention of a RWD Grand Prix in 2008, based on the new "Zeon" ("Xeon"?) platform, meaning it would be "slightly larger than today's Grand Prix". Slightly larger? Wouldn't that make it about the size of the GTO?? 2008... exactly 20 years after the last GM domestic RWD mid-size... took 'em a LONG time to realize their mistake!
(Sorry, but I still don't like to spell "Grand Prix" like that... they should have never changed it from "Gran" to "Grand", just because people didn't spend the time to note the exact spelling! More of the "dumbing down" of America...)
So, maybe it won't be a 2005 GTO for me after all.. may have to wait to see what develops..
Of course, the name for the car came from the Gran Prix Formula One races, which originated in Europe; hence the spelling "Gran Prix".
I was disappointed when Pontiac gave in and added the "d", thus acknowledging the average American's laziness to understand the origin and history behind the name.
And according to the Formula 1 web site, they spell everything "Grand" also.
And I didn't do great in High School French, but "grand" is the French spelling of the english word "big". There is no French word "gran".
we got into a discussion about if the gto would out perform the ss or t/a or not....
was wondering if anyone that currently has GTO has raced a SS or T/A?
personally i think the gto might have a slight edge on the f bodies especially when comes to ride and handeling...
seems these f body owners are getting kind of worried about the gto and if they come out next year with the 385 - 400hp judge or whatever they decide to name it watch out theres gonna a be a new player at the drag strip taking names!.... (:
Call them about the T/A's before you go, though; while there was one in the showroom last time I was there, who knows if it's been sold since then!
Let us know how you make out!
Then why in hell are some still trying to gouge every dime out of buyers? Never mind, I know why, because in some areas they can.
"GM has a 168-day supply of GTOs, well above the 60-day supply that is considered ideal."
Kill this still-born failure now and start building the '05!
My first thought after reading this article was, good thing his dad is the editor and his Grandfather founded the company. At least he could have made the math add up. Or he could have assumed that the cars that have been built, will be sold. And it was great they way he said that a high volume car with less equipment and less horse power costs less.