Pontiac GTO

rjs200240 · December 2004

Robert (Hammen2), do you have the newer GM Card with the per-vehicle limits, or do you still have the old one? I'm holding on to my old one like it were made of gold. I wonder if that plays a part in whether you get the roundup as well? And perhaps how often you use it, or if you've "given away" a lot of points from reaching maximums? I never got a roundup mail either that I'm aware of. But I can't bring myself to trade in a card that can get up to $3000 off on a Corvette...

As for resale, I did a CarMax search out of curiosity and there are two in my area with asking prices of about $24k. They claim the blue book is about $26k. I find it hard to believe that they will move these cars at that price, and I suspect the resale on them will fall very hard due to all the rebates. The cheaper you buy it for, the cheaper you should expect to sell it for. For people who paid $25k or so, a $20k resale after maybe a year is fairly normal. For folks who paid $35k, well it's gonna suck. Though, if you don't sell it, it's really irrelevant.

Edit: Oh, my local Pontiac/Buick dealer sent out a mailer with a bunch of "Red Tag Sale" stuff in it. They didn't have either of the two GTO's listed in it. One time when I went there to see the goats that GMBuyPower listed, the sales guy said they hadn't gotten them yet. Then he said they had been selling them about as quickly as they'd been getting them. I'm not sure if that's true, but maybe they already moved the two I saw there. If so, I hope the buyers know how to work a polisher...

hammen2 · December 2004

I do not have the "old" GM card, I have the new one (applied for it right after they changed them). I agree with you, I wouldn't switch, either, unless you are used to getting GMS pricing, at which point you may consider getting the Extended Family card. I have only used the card once for purchases (helped my sister get a Trailblazer in May of '03 - used $1750 of $$$, plus she got another $750 "bonus"), but I do have $2800 now on it, and did have the GTO on my "preferred car list" (which supposedly influences whether you got the offer or not)...

carfact · December 2004

The GM dealer I was working with quoted $24,998 for an '04 GTO automatic demo last week. Now they're saying it's $500 more this week because the "value coupons" are being used up...definetly going the wrong way on the sale price. I guess there will be several dealers with '04s on their lots well into next year.

The GM Card "top offs" and bonus offers customers who filled out surveys or requested more GM vehicle information recently could have received a greater $ promotion than others. However, most of those who received higher $ promotions were randomly selected according to the GM Card rep I talked to. Of course your GM Card Earnings amount was a factor too.

dat2 · December 2004

Hey-

I have worked a deal on an '04 gto, 6 spd, silver, red seats, build date 06/04, 160 miles on clock, $25,600 plus tax, tags, and $400 proc fee, 2 free oil changes,

trade in allowance $15,000 on my '05 scion tC 5 spd with 13,000 miles on it, and a few dealer options such as TRD exhaust and strut bar. HOW IS IT?? Should I have been able to do better??

hammen2 · December 2004

Check Edmunds for the invoice price of the car.

Subract $5500 if you are in the East or South, $5000 if you are in the Midwest, $3500 if you are in the West (see http://www.gm.com for current incentives/geographical breakdown).

Ask the dealer if they have any $500 "Value Certificates" available (they can use up to 3 on a GTO purchase).

The $400 processing/sevices fee is pure profit/completely negotiable.

As to your trade-in, please post complete details in the "Real World Trade-In Values" thread over in Smart Shopper. They will need make/model/year/mileage/color/options/condition/location, at a minumum, to determine what you should be offered...

Hope this helps,

--Robert

dat2 · December 2004

Thanks for the info!! The price is about 200 over invoice, and the trade in is 1000 more than another dealer was going to give me. I will check the trade in board.

hammen2 · December 2004

I would push them for invoice. That's a good starting point for the '04's - some dealers even sell below invoice (cutting into their holdback). This is absolutely the right time of year to be looking at a previous-model-year car - dealers are really motivated to move 'em!

--Robert

midwesttrader · December 2004

Run from that dealer and expand your search area.

You don't mention the mileage, but demo = a used car in my opinion. Especially this late in the model year. FYI - someone mentioned earlier that '04s are going for $21K at dealer auctions (wholesale) with less than 5K miles on them.

carfact · December 2004

Thanks....I agree that a demo has been beat up and has some hard miles on it (I think it had 3-5K miles on it and wouldn't consider one) the non-demo's are quoted at $500 more. I live in the midwest and most other dealers are in the same $ ball park. Most dealers have doled out their value coupons last week making the deals not as lucrative this week.

scottp4 · December 2004

Does anybody know how to locate the control of the telescoping steering wheel? I can get the tilt to work but don't know how to get it to telescope. Also does anybody know how to access the preprogram FM2 channel selection. that gives you access to 5 extra preprogramed channels I have tryed to follow the owners manual but still can't find FM2 mode, only FM1

dat2 · December 2004

The telescope uses the same control as the tilt, just pull or push the wheel when you open the tilt lever. I don't know about the extra FM mode. ANyone know how to turn the fog lights on/off?? The headlight switch on the dash is shocking enough for me, coming from Nissans and Toyotas!!

dat2 · December 2004

Last night purchased 04 GTO at 31,100, minus the 5500 rebate, plus negotiated doc fee of 290, plus ttl. They also gave me a good price on my trade. Still getting aquanted with the GOAT!! Thanks for all the helpful info the last couple of days...

dat2 · December 2004

Forgot to mention, this was a silver car with red interior, 180 miles on odo, fairly late build date of 06/04 (a lot of the other GTOs I saw were built as early as 12/03). So maybe a few bugs were worked out by then. Have noticed a rattle in the shifter boot under heavy throttle. It sounds like an old fashioned muscle car rattle, anyone else have similar? Have not noticed any other build flaws at all.

tolenash · December 2004

Access fm1, fm2, AM, and CD by using the mode control on the steering wheel or the appropriate button on the radio face (fm changes betwen fm1 or fm2 as long as you aren't in ASM mode). You may be in ASM mode (automatic station management). If ASM is displayed on the radio screen, simply hit ASM to turn that off (I think). I know ASM is useful when traveling as you hold in the button for a few seconds and it programs the strongest 6 fm channels. You should deactivate when in your "home area" so that you have access to the other six channels.

One other radio trick I learned...when in CD mode, you can switch CD's by holding the up or down arrow on the left switch set on the steering wheel... Your hands don't ever have to leave the wheel (unless you have the 6spd like me!)

The fog lamps are controlled through the same switch as the headlights. pull out gently to turn them on, push in to turn off. you'll know its working by watching the "idiot" lamps on the gauge cluster if you turn the headlights on when you play with the fog light controls. One thing about the head light switch, just leave it in AUTO mode. works great! allows the system to turn the lights on when you approach and use the unlock button on your gargantuan key.

Once you find all the specifics, its a really great car to drive...8500 miles on mine and counting...

zinger · December 2004

Do you live in a snow state? Have you driven in any yet? Snow tires?

With a 6 SP have you gotten used to the pedal setup? Specifically no dead pedal and not enough room between the clutch and the side wall. Do you get used to this over time? In my test drive my left foot kept getting stuck under the clutch when I moved it to shift.

coreseller · December 2004

I live in Cincy, Oh, just brought back from Chicago a "Red Hot" 04 6 speed, $23,950 with GMAC $5000 incentive and 3 $500 coupons (they just ran out of them after I bought the car). Car had 6/04 build date and 4 miles on it. I'm giving up a few things I really liked/wanted from my Maxima (Dead pedal, decent trunk, heated seats, automatic climate control, moonroof, etc.) but I easily looked past these things because I could tell I was going to really like this car, it seams to have a soul. The last car I felt that way about was my '96 Impala SS, it gave me 200k nearly trouble free miles and I hated to see it go. I also have to echo what some others on this board are shaking their heads about; Pontiac gets ragged on for years regarding body cladding and gaudy exteriors, they come in with an understated GTO addressing these issues and immediately gets an earful about the lack of split tailpipes, hood scoops, flared fenders, etc. When I saw the pictures of the '05 I jumped on an '04, 400 hp would of been nice though. I'm a salesman and spend 3 to 5 hours a day in the car, I can already tell the next few years in this car are going to be fun.

tolenash · December 2004

sorry, no snow in Charleston, South Carolina this year (like most years!).

I have gotten used to the driving without the dead pedal. I basically drive with my heel on the floorboard all the time and hover the ball of my foot over the pedal. I use another position if am in 6th gear, which I'll usually do only at speeds over 50mph. Then I'll stretch the left leg out underneath the pedal.

zinger · December 2004

Thanks for the response. I am sure I could get over the pedal lay out too. If I do buy snow tires will be a must.

I have only a couple of days left to decide whether to trade my Celica GTS for the GTO as the rebates and GM bonus cash will be gone 1/3. I dont care for the 2005 styling or price so this is the last shot at a 2004 because it does seem like they are movin em now.

tolenash · December 2004

You'll be shifting through the gears so fast you won't miss the dead pedal anyway...

Not only that, you won't miss your celica one bit. Wait till you drive it everyday...get used to the passing power - dropping it two gears while doing 70 to get around that semi in front, slipping it back into 6th and letting the car decelerate from 100+ back to something closer to legal, listening the burble of the exhaust...

Yeah, I can't do that in my old 96 GrandAm... or my fiances' '03 civic...

zinger · December 2004

I hear you....If I drove on the highway more it would be a easier to do. But where I drive I am going to have a hard time jumping on it.

Whereas I can whip the Celica around a corner at full speed without even touching the brake.

The hard part is the $5k rebate and $6K GM Bonus = $11K off the car. Makes me wonder though - is the car that bad that they are taking that much off to move it?

dat2 · December 2004

I just got my GTO Tue night, almost through my first tank of gas. So far I really like it and have only noticed a couple flaws which I will have the dealer look at.

Sometimes while idling I am noticing the car "lumping" or shaking with the motor beats. Maybe this is typical of a big time V8?? Has anyone else experienced this? Also, the 1-4 shift "feature" seems to happen only intermittantly.

Had my first "U-turn, punch it, oversteer, up through 2-3-4 shifts and hit 80 before I knew it" tonight. It was absolutely a blast. Overall car feels solid and well built...

hammen2 · December 2004

If you drive in a lot of traffic, you might consider the auto tranny. Just be aware, if you've driven the stick, the auto will feel like a slug. This is due to torque management/shift points, things which can be taken care of by a custom tune or using a programmer like the DiabloSport Predator.

As to your question about the car being "that bad", have you driven one? For whatever reason, the styling hasn't resonated with the American public, yet just about anyone who takes a spin in one ends up with a huge grin on their face. The car has clean styling (referencing the common complaint about Pontiac cladding) and one of the best interiors GM's ever made (another common GM complaint), with one of the best powertrains GM's ever made (yet more room for complaints). To get one for $14k off MSRP, plus still at low finance rates, is an unheard-of bargain.

--Robert

hammen2 · December 2004

The shaking is the cam lope. This is normal. Most people end up buying a CAGS (1-4 shift) eliminator, taking care of that problem.

Just make sure that your tire pressure is 30-35 psi, not the 50-60 it ships at; that your spare tire pressure is 55-60 psi, rather than the 30-35 it ships at; and that the suspension packing materials (red spring clips) are off the front and rear suspension (can mess up your control arms/stabilizer bars/struts and shocks, as it did with my car)...

What's your build date? Cars built in April or earlier are likely to suffer from lound clunking/thunking in the rear upon hard acceleration (driveline hitting the chassis). There's a TSB out on this.

There's also a TSB which allows the dealer to use his recently-updated Scan tool to dim the brightness of the "MPH" light on the dash.

The stereo can be made to sound better by adjusting the subwoofer gain in the trunk. The woofer is on the left-hand side - you can pull back the carpet, reach in there, and find/turn the dial.

Likewise, one of the common GTO complaints is the low beam headlights being too dim. There are adjustment screws near the lights (have to have the hood open) - pull your car up to the garage, and turn the screws about 2 1/2 turns "up" and your low-beam distance will improve (without other drivers flashing in your eyes). The fog lamps have adjustment screws as well...

--Robert

bigdaddycoats · December 2004

I notice shaking at times, but think it is normal of a large V8 - besides I like it.

The skip shift feature is annoying and will not happen on harder launches. There are kits available that will disable it - I plan on getting one very soon.

b4z · December 2004

I am in charleston too.

bought my '04 Silver at Mcelveen 11/30.

What color are you driving and where did you buy?

gb7 · December 2004

Thanks to all for sharing GTO experiences. I've got my silver 6spd on 1K miles.

I think I'd read a post way back about the dashboard going bonkers on startup. I had this happen to me at around 900 miles. I had just gotten out of the parking garage, in bad weather late at night, and was accelerating on 2nd when the needles started dancing, a beeping sound came on, the message 'Engine temp hot' flashed, and the temp gauge flared to the max then dropped back to low, as if broken. It was very disconcerting to say the least, and I had to immediately flash my emergency lights and pull over. Having read the previous posts though, I tried not to get too alarmed. I kept the engine running , carefully opened the hood and checked the coolant for leaks but it was full. I kept the engine running for a few more minutes, hoping it would stabilize, then drove off. It's never happened again.

Hopefully it won't happen to you at high speeds.

Thanks for the tips on the speakers/woofer. I wonder if there is any way to re-program the EQ settings??

Also, this might sound really strange, but has anyone thought about removing the back seats? How hard is it to get the back seats out?

hammen2 · December 2004

The only commonality that GTO owners have been able to figure out regarding the gauge cluster going bonkers is, if you start the car and don't let the system check complete, you are more likely to have the gauges go nuts (either the temp hitting the top, or the speedo pegging at 200 mph). Try to remember to let the check complete before putting the car into gear and driving off...

--Robert

lwv · January 2005

In the owners manual, it state that you can hook up a phone that will go through the radio speakers. Anyone figured this out yet? Also shows that you can get a lighter hookup under the radio that will allow another 12v port. Anyone know the part for this?

Thanks,

lwv · January 2005

I picked up my 2004 GTO on Friday. Silver with black and auto. I really like the styling and could not beat the pricing. I did the smart buy for 3 year and 15k per year.

dat2 · January 2005

Hammen - Thanks for the well-written tips. Very helpful.

Tires from dealer were over 50 lbs, have adjusted to the recommended 35, ride is much better. I will have to check on the "red spring clips" - where should I look for these?

Halfway through 2nd tank, am wondering now about fuel mileage. I have the 6-speed, and computer suggested the 1st tank averaged 16mpg, so far on this tank it is saying 15mpg. I assume it will improve after a few more tanks, but anyone have any real world numbers (is 29 really possible on hiway??).

My build date is 06/04...although one time I have heard a very loud thunk during full throttle acceleration, sounded like I ran over something on the right middle side of car, like a piece of metal, that hit the bottom of the car. Is this the driveline hitting the chassis??

zinger · January 2005

Can anyone determine the build date from this VIN?

6G2VX12G64L236178

hammen2 · January 2005

6G2VX12G64L236178

Well, I can tell you that the VIN for my first GTO (built in May) ended in 281821. My replacement car (built in July) is 301xxx. And I've seen some September 2003 cars in the 193xxx range. So, my guess is in the February timeframe - probably needs to have the "thunk in the trunk" TSB applied, among others...

--Robert

tolenash · January 2005

out at exit 199 - summerville at N. Main St. My goat is Impulse Blue w/ blue leather. Also bought at Mcelveen.

zinger · January 2005

Thanks Robert. I didnt buy it but was thinking about it and by the time I went back it was sold. I was just curious and still had the vin written down. I figured it had been there a long time. The first time I went to test it they had to replace the battery because it was totally dead. That happened with a couple of GTOs there.

Why did you get a replacement?

hammen2 · January 2005

The first few boats of GTOs shipped over from Australia had dead batteries, due to the keys being left in the ignition for the ocean voyage. Not sure if it's the recharging of the fob, or if having the key in the ignition energizing the system, but there are now warning tags to avoid leaving a key in the ignition.

My original vehicle was making loud groaning/creaking noises from the dash area, which, after much dash disassembly/windshield removal/dropping and realigning the engine and tranny, turned out to be an improperly-assembled firewall (polymer material glued to metal channels - kind of like a Saturn's body panels). Once that repair was done (after 20 days in the shop), the car had major-league suspension issues/really loud "clunk" noises that anyone in the car could hear and feel (front control arms/stabilizer bar messed up), among other things that happened (scratched/chipped paint, improperly assembled dash/steering wheel, et. al.) that weren't repaired after a couple more service visits. After 35 days and a bunch of complaints by me (to the dealership service manager AND general manager, to the Pontiac regional rep, to GM Executive relations, and the GTO Brand Quality Manager), they agreed to exchange my car. Just wish it hadn't taken GM seven weeks to do the paperwork - can't wait for Wednesday...

--Robert

zinger · January 2005

Good for you - I am surprised they exchanged it. They still exchanged it after they were able to fix everything? Or were they not able to fix everything to your satisfaction? Wednesday you pick up your new car?

Today is the last day supposedly for all of the incentives. And I still cant pull the trigger and trade my GTS so I guess I will wait until 2005 or 06 and gamble that they wont be able to sell at sticker again. I dont think the GTO is a good car to buy used so new is the way to go.

hammen2 · January 2005

They fixed everything but the suspension, which they weren't able to fix. They might have, if I had been willing to let them try, that is - I obviously had no faith in the long-term viability of the car/its repairs, and thought I'd waited long enough (35 days in the shop in 2 1/2 months is kinda ridiculous)...

And now, GM is telling me Friday will be the day. Geez, get it over with already! :-)

--Robert

b4z · January 2005

I saw a impulse blue turning from Lockwood BlVD.

onto Calhoun St. a couple of weeks ago.

It had a big orange Clemson license plate on the front.

Was that you?

I was in my black SRX so you wouldn't have noticed me.

Good to know there are other GTO peeps from Charleston on edmunds.

There is a black/red that is parked on HWY17S all the time.

sentry buick has sold 2 blacks and 2 reds.

mcelveen by far had the best choice. I am glad I didn't have to do business with senty even though they are just down the street from me.

they wanted 5K markup when I talked to them in Feb.

tolenash · January 2005

Sorry not me. I have no front plate. I did however go to Clemson, so that's a strange coincidence. I have seen a modded yellow (inset front grill, autocross spoiler, and some front windshield decals), a black, and this morning I saw a red on the frontage rd of I-26 near sangaree. You done anything to your goat yet?

I am looking at an autocross spoiler and the gravana tuning GTO baddges for the side skirts. Also the K&N filter kit.

tripowergto · January 2005

Well believe it or not this is what I actually paid yesterday(last day of all incentives) for a NEW limited edition Pulse Red M6 2004 GTO.

Sticker: $33,485 (Invoice -holdback is roughly $31,000)

Negotiated Price: $29,000

2 Dealer Certs: -$1000

GMAC rebate: -$5500

Total before GM card incentive: $22,500

GM Card roundup: -$5200

Grand Total after all incentives/rebates: $17,300 +TTL

TTL in PA was: 6% sales tax: $1038, Papers were $155

Out the door price: $18,493

I easily could have put 0 down, but since I felt like I was already stealing it I put $1493 down($493 cash, $1000 on my GM card, gotta still use it, lol!!), financing $17,000 @ 2.9 for 60 months with GMAC. Payments are $304, full coverage Insurance is $822yr. and I OWN IT, WOO HOO!!

It took 2 weeks to finally make this deal, losing out on a few in the process but ultimately made my very best deal on the last possible day only 50 miles away. My dealer in northeast PA still has 3 Torrid Red 04's and a slightly used yellow one.

tolenash · January 2005

"welcome to the family"...

bigdaddycoats · January 2005

Wow, that is a heck of a deal. No better performance for that kind of money anywhere!

Welcome, and hope you enjoy it. Be sure to keep us updated.

rorr · January 2005

"Grand Total after all incentives/rebates: $17,300 +TTL"

That's simply insane.

According to Edmund's, private party sales price for a used GTO in immaculate condition is over $23k. Hell, tradein is over $21k. You potentially could turn right around and sell the car for a healthy profit.

Congrats on the smokin' deal.

midwesttrader · January 2005

December = 2952

YTD = 13569 + 79 (sold December '03) = 13648

15728 - 13648 = 2080 still available

Happy New Year and bring on the 2005!

b4z · January 2005

I haven't made any mods yet and probably won't.

Unless it is the Monaro wheels (18").

The yellow car you saw was at mcelveen when I bought mine.

Autocross spoiler, chrome wheels and autocross grille painted flat black.

I am in west ashley and downtown so my opportunity to see performance cars is less than you guys in the North area or Summerville.

So i don't see a lot of GTOs or even Mustangs.

The interesting thing is that the Mustang guys won't race.

It is only the Neon SRT, WRX and EVO guys that want to have a go.

Also many people don't even know what it is.

I feel like I am flying below the radar.

I kind of like it.

b4z · January 2005

Congratulations. great deal on a car that is worth far more than what you paid.

coolhandluke · January 2005

I checked out the Holden by design site and like the "J" series wheels. Who would you contact to get these and what would they cost. I'm waiting for Spring to add some upgrades do some driving !!

hammen2 · January 2005

GM dealer certificates were a program where GM would give each dealer x number (based on their sales volume) of $500 certificates, that were good for an additional $500 off the price of any new vehicle. There is some limit (usually 2 or 3) that can be used per deal. This was designed to help close "tough" deals.

Right now, there are no dealer certs available/the program is on hiatus for January. Not to say it may not be back next month, but who knows?

--Robert

hammen2 · January 2005

http://www.jhp.com.au - and be prepared, they're not cheap and shipping from Oz is $$$.

tripowergto · January 2005

I didn't even need a new car but couldn't resist the incredible combined incentives. I truly wanted a GTO but not at $33K. It was difficult to convince my wife but at basically 1/2 price I couldn't turn it down.

I figure I should be able to drive it for 1-2 years and still get close to what I paid as a trade-in. It's a GREAT car!!

Pontiac GTO

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