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Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

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Comments

  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    I guess so.

    I just feel that the LS430 has a superior interior both in materials and fit & finish to those cars and every car I have seen/been in (my mother owns a loaded LS430 so I ahve ahd experience riding/driving it before) and I have yet to be in any super luxo cars like the maybach or rolls royce/bentley models.

    The Audi A8's interior was pretty nice (I didn't mean it to sound I thought ti was bad) but reading so much about how amazing audi interiors are I guess I was expecting more. I have also been in a 2002 Audi A4 and the interior was ok but again, nothing special...IMO the new ES330 has a better interior to the A4. I just fail to see how they are regarded as superior to Lexus interiors.

    As for MB, I don't get how anyone could find the
    S430's interior superior in quality. The one I sat in was $100+K and on all the luxury cars in its category that I have seen, it has the worst interior. I feel the BMW 7 series interior is pretty nice though. Tha loaded 60K 330xi interior wasn't.

    Sorry for taking this off topic.

    Rob
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Will be interesting to see if Lexus drops the IS's "boy racer" interior and moves more toward the rather austere BMW interior or the more luxurious Audi interior. Hope they at least allow buyers the optional ability to order an interior that better meets their desires (e.g., one with wood trim and at least another with metallic trim).

    I've yet to see a 330xi or any 330i that can even come close to a $60,000 (USA) MSRP. Don't know about Canadian or Australian dollar MSRPs.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The austerity of BMW interiors are slowly diminishing. The new 5/7 series interiors(austere lite) do not excite me and unfortunately these new styling cues will influence the new e90(bmw 3 series). I am one of those rarities who loves simplicity and hates gizmos/luxuries( I am among the minority who has a BMW with cloth seats and likes it that way)

    It will be interesting to see the new interior of the IS. I have a strong feeling that it will be more luxurious. This would make the IS interior more consistent with the interiors of othe Lexus vehicles. IMO, that would be a shame.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I agree there, I really dont like any of the bangle interiors. Unfortunately, Audi and MB seem to quite a bit, as they are copying BMW. (A6, new S class). Lexus interiors continue to be the worlds most intuitively designed, and highest quality.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    As Riez pointed out there is a distinction between interior quality and the term "Fit and Finish".

    IMO, Audi is King in terms of "Fit and Finish".
    Regarding Interior Quality, you are problay right about Lexus.

    I cannot really debate issues related to interior quality too well because the quality of the wood trim, leather etc. does not really interest me as much. For me the priority is how well the car drives and its "fit and finish"(interior and exterior)
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    Finished "reading" The Lexus Story, the big coffee table book put out by Lexus, by Jonathan Mahler (Melcher Media, 2004). (Bought it at Borders.)

    First thing I noticed is that there wasn't much about the IS. (Though there wasn't much about the ES or GS. Mostly about the early history and the LS, SC, & RX.)

    Was nice to see a photo of the IS instrument cluster as the first photo. Then nothing until a huge action photo of a bright yellow IS zooming down a county road on pages 198-199. Then just three more photos, including 2 of Team Lexus. The entire IS text is on pages 200-201 plus a small mention on page 218 about the IS in Europe:

    "The best-selling Lexus in Europe is the IS 200, a smaller-displacement version of the American IS."

    Book posits that the primary purpose of the IS was to bring in a new type Lexus buyer, esp. a younger one, as by 2000 average buyer age had stablized at about 50 and were weak in the coveted 35-45 age range, and to bring the concept of driving excitement back to Lexus, which had come to mean rather sedate luxury in the minds of buyers.

    As with most things IS, book falls into the dreaded 330i trap:

    "With a powerful inline 6 beneath the hood and Formula 1-inspired gear shifters on the steering wheel, the IS 300 was judged a worthy challenger to the BMW 330i."

    Book at least honest to say:

    "The sport sedan hasn't knocked the 3 Series off its perch atop its class, but it has garnered a devoted following."
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    riez,

    You bought the book??

    I read a few "Reviews" on it and everyone basically comes to the same conclusion, and that is it is basically about the beginning of Lexus and the LS400.
  • sapparosapparo Member Posts: 68
    Audi's fit/finsih is nice but they got serious problems with the other things that make the car move which is why so many don't buy them. Audi's on par with Honda/Acura and nicer than BMW and Benz. Lexus is the supreme fit/finish master of today and yesterday..
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Really,

    Audis have serious problems that prevents the car from moving! Quite a serious claim, but are Audis really such big problems? What info do you base your claim upon.

    Many people do not buy Audis, just as many people do not buy a Lexus or any other car. There are quite a number who are passionately postive about Audis. Audis sell more successfully in Europe and even China. Lexus is a big seller in N. America because consumers like that soft comfy luxury feel(excluding the IS) that Buicks were once renowned for.

    Audi's on par with Honda/Acura. First time I heard that claim!

    Audi is superior to Benz and BMW in terms of Fit and Finish. I do agree with you.

    Lexus is the Supreme FIT/Finish master of today and yesterday! Certainly your opinion but fortunately not everyone shares your view.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    maxhonda99... Yes, I bought the book. I had a 25% off Borders e-coupon. I enjoy these type automotive history/business books. I also bought the one on BMW, Driven, which came out last year. Is always interesting to learn about the history, tradition, and culture. (One of the best was the book, The Reckoning. Think by David Halberstam. Back in the mid-1980s. Big book that pairs the histories of Ford and Nissan/Datsun.)

    The best part of The Lexus Story is the discussion about the Dark Period, when sales went flat and it looked like the magic was over. The period from 1993-1998. The RX SUV saves Lexus, accounting for almost half of their 1999 sales.
  • sapparosapparo Member Posts: 68
    Actually I was mistaken in my rushed thought Audi's will never have Honda/Acura quality or durability and long running reputation remember their a gussied up VW who's quality is in the toilet as of late. Lexus will destroy Audi in quality no need to mention Lexus.

    Why don't you take your Audi promotion energy and get them to build better quality products.

    You can tell I don't like german products that break easy and early on. Arguing with me isn't gonna work Canuck so drop it..
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Greetings to you too sapparo!!

    If you cant argue your point, then why bother posting!
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Ah yes, the dark period. as a former Lexus salesperson I remember the *dark period*, when it was basically the ES & LS selling. The SC started to loose sales momentun in 1995 due to price increases and the GS was basically a no-show after the 1994 model year. ANd then in 1998, with the new GS & LX470, and later the RX300 things took off.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yes, Audis really are such big problems. You only have to check JD power or consumer reports. The previous generation A6, for example, was probably their worst, most unreliable car, but Audis have a nasty history of that.

    None of the Germans are known for great reliability, but BMW and M-B problems of late seem to be electical in nature, BMW with their rediculous iDrive, and M-B with COMAND system problems, Ebrake problems, etc. Audi's seemed to be mechanical problems. Audi A4s along with Passats were recalled a bunch of times for ignition coil problems, and and I know Audi has had lots of problems with their KK03 turbos on A4 1.8T and A6 2.7T. There is a reason German cars come with free scheduled maintance under warranty.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Reliability was not the issue. The issue was fit and finish. You can have the most unreliable car with the best fit and finish(no contradiction---in fact that describes the Audi/VW vehicles quite well).

    Since reliability has become a big issue here I can tell you that
    I owned an Audi and was not very happy with the dealer services(although I later found a independent Audi specialist who made my life quite easy). I currently own a BMW 323i and was unhappy with the dealership services(now I am an incredibly happy BMW owner who has his car service by a reliable independent BMW specialist)

    Oh and by the way, was not the BMW 530 given the highest rating by CR quite recently. Higher than any Lexus! Unfortunately you are right about idrive and this may increase frustration among owners. I guess the higest CR rating will be unlikely for the new 530 equipped with idrive.

    If my priority for driving a car is reliability in itself, I would be driving a Hyundai right now. The latest stats on Hyundai's are quite impressive.

    The only problem is I like cars that are a thrill to drive. Reliability stats help, but they are not everything(unless you are a Lexus or Hyundai owner). The only exciting Lexus is the IS, IMO.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dewey... CR raved about the former E39 530i, which was discontinued after MY2003. And that raving was about the car and driving experience, but not the reliability.

    CR has also raved about the IS300, and that includes both the car, the performance driving experience, and its reliability.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    True Riez,

    How many people buy a BMW for reliability? Buying a BMW is all "about the car and driving experience"!

    Although there are some(probably the majority) who buy it mindlessly as a status symbol. In fact those kind of people herd themselves among all luxury marques.
  • rjg96rjg96 Member Posts: 65
    Interesting discussion on interior quality. My vote would be:
    -last-gen BMW interior (e46,e39, e38) for overall design
    -Lexus LS for fit/finish and control feel
    -Audi for material look/feel

    I think Acura with the new TL best manages to blend these together. I"m hoping Lexus does something similar w/ the next IS interior-- sporty, but classy and well put together; substantial feeling. For some reason, most Japanese interiors turn me off; they just look kind of cheap to me-- even the LS! I don't understand why Japanese manufacturers don't invest a little more in making things look and feel more substantial. When I'm in most Japanese cars, I think "I Know this car is of higher quality than any German car, but it sure doesn't look/feel like it".

    Another area where most Japanese cars (especially the current IS), could use improvement is in the "door thunk" factor. The doors often feel too light and close without a good thunk. I'm sure Japanese engineers think the light feeling is a good thing because it means the door is easier to operate; but I bet a lot people (like myself) would like a feeling of more substance.

    I really think that if Lexus can use some more German-like plastics (and inteiror design), and make their cars feel a bit more substantial, they will easily destory Audi, BMW and Mercedes in this segment.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Let's stick to the next IS in here - there's a nice little discussion here:
    Reliability and long-term costs of ownership - MB, BMW, VW/AUDI compared
    in which you can talk about the merits of various brands. I'm sure we could add Lexus to the list if needed.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Great site Kirstie,

    this site certainly appears a bit more objective about German cars(this is not surprising since this is a Lexus forum among many participants who never owned a German car).

    It appears that Lexus owners tend to love the statistics(CR, JD Power) about Lexus more than the Lexus cars themselves. While in general, German car owners love their cars more than any statistic about their cars.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I agree the TL has a great interior. Thats another reason the RL disapppointed me, is that the interior has none of the sensibility and attractiveness of TL. Its like Honda thought, hey, 745i and A8L do well. Lets just copy that. They did a poor job copying them, especially A8, which I think is the best interior in the class, at least for the moment. Depends on what Lexus will do with the next LS. From what Ive seen, the new S is nothing to write home about. I recently sat in an '05 XJ8: what a disappointment! Cheesy hard plastic and vinyl everywhere. The inside of the door handles felt like I was grabbing the door of a Daewoo. Ford, what have you done??
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    dewey... You may be surprised by what all the various posters on this board have owned. I've owned a '98 540i6 and a '00 323ia. Not to mention two '96 Infiniti G20s and a '00 Lincoln LS8 Sport. I've owned three Lexus ISs and still own two of them. I loved all these cars. But all five of my Japanese-made cars (the 2 Infiniti and 3 Lexus) were the most reliable cars I've owned.
  • bobcatmanbobcatman Member Posts: 51
    You say the LS interior is cheap that's a first, everyone who's seen and been inside says it's the epitomy of quality, refinement and supreme LUXURY some say a little too overdone. I personally like a more sportier look and quality feel, the new Acura's have that covered very nicely. The old Lexi SC/ Acura Legend coupes blended high quality interior materials with a sportier look and package.

    I don't quite buy the door slam deal go look at the new Acura's especially the Rl and Tl and you can see they surely paid attention to the way the door feels when open and closed. There's a weighted feel. The older Lexus GS, SC's, the LS400, Acura Legends all had a solid door thunk feel. The old SC hinges were one of the most robust designs ever seen in use that's why MB used a similar design on the big CL. The current IS has a nice solid feel and thunk. These cars aren't 18k Civics,Hyundais or Cavaliers. The new Mazda RX 8 feels drum vault solid when shut as does the S2000 and some Subies. It's all in the body rigidity and door hinge latch mechanism design.

    The newer Audis have nice fit/finish from what I've seen but they got a whole bunch of other issues that are far more important and serious than this as stated by lexusguy. Audi's near the bottom in market position/sales here so they only have up to go on this end. Some of those late 80's early 90's models were absolute crap back then.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    540i, nice history. My list of owned cars is much smaller because I keep my cars for 7 to 21 years(including my wife's 83 mercedes 300d---a family heirloom)

    If maintaining German cars were as expensive as claimed by many in this forum, I would be financially bankrupt by now.

    Despite this history, I may look forward to change with the upcoming new IS(unfortunately there wii not be a Touring version)
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    The IS is also bought by people who like the car and not its statistics (the performance stats aren't that great). Unfortunately that isn't a whole lot of people, but with one of the lowest average buyer ages of any car I don't think Toyota can stand to alienate them.

    Toyota wants to follow the 3-series (I think), and I disagree with that strategy. Basically I think a decent copy of the 3-series is still going to be unappealing to just about everybody.

    The people that the IS appeals to certainly respect the 3-series, but they're not looking for a BMW. They're Toyota and Honda fans, very possibly tuners, who've landed good jobs and are looking beyond RSX's and Celicas. The BMW tuning culture is totally different and not very appealing to this crowd. In that sense, the IS should be like the Acura TSX; a stepping stone between the cheap college car and the tuner's future TL or GS. Among these buyers (and only these buyers), the IS has a ton of cachet.

    If the IS moves up and up, it'll be too expensive for young working people, and there'll be a wide gap of sporty cars in Toyota's lineup. Toyota can go after the 3-series if it wants, but I think it's a waste to do so with the 3. The IS should move downmarket a little, if anything.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Might I propose that the IS stick to its current price point and size, but simply be improved in terms of interior design/quality, engine power/torque and efficiency, and feature content? Theres nothing seriously lacking in the vehicles handling characteristics, in my estimation. I dont like the idea that cars must grow with each redesign. This is one car that shouldnt, or at least.. not substantially. Itd be nice to have a back seat big enough for two normal sized folks not to [non-permissible content removed] about, though.

    ~alpha
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    I'm not sure anyone can improve all those things without a price increase. Then again... they could option out everything, but then it wouldn't be the same.

    I'll just hope its growth isn't very dramatic.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I think the car should be more like TL or G35, rather than TSX. Lexus has said they wont move further down market to a TSX\C230 coupe sort of car. The IS300 is getting HAMMERED by the TL and G35, as they are just better in pretty much every respect. I recently took an '05 G35x out for a spin. Its got a great interior, with a usable back seat, a fantastic RWD or AWD when you need it system, and most importantly, 270ft.lbs of twist on command. The IS300 has none of those things.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    The IS can be improved in just about every imaginable way without any or a small price increase. I can give you several examples. First, the ES330 has gotten better in each generation yet it's actually cheaper today than a ES300 was in 1995! I know, my uncle bought a 1995 ES300 with no leather, sunroof, or CD and it stickered for $31K to $32K. What does a ES330 go for today? It's base is about in the same range but it offers soo much more as standard.

    The 1998 GS300 got better in just about every conceivable way yet the price dropped by about $6K.

    I think the new IS will be better(at least for some people) but won't get much more expensive, if at all. one big cost savings I can see for them is in engines, the new range of V6s that will be used are all from the same family, different versions are used in the Tacoma, and the upcoming GS, then the new Avalon and future Camry's and ES's.
  • polentapolenta Member Posts: 3
    I bought a 2002 IS300 Sportcross and like the looks, handling and everything so far except rear visibility and that silly MPG gauge in the middle instrument cluster. Ridiculous in my opinion. It should have been an oil pressure gage if the Lexus name was that important to keep in the cluster; or leave the name out and have four gauges--oil press, volts, temp, and then the silly MPG gage. Most everyone knows that when you floor it, you'll get close to "zero" mpg, and when you back off going downhill, you'll get close to "infinity" mpg. As for throttle positions in between, you get what you get. How many really deliberately drive at a speed that provides the best mpg, say around 45-55 mph on a clear level freeway?

    Been reading all the posts about BMW, Toyota, Acura, Audi, MB, comparisons to Lexus models etc. (haven't seen one yet comparing to Studebaker) and was amazed that there could be so much arguing about performance statistics, ride, fit/finish, etc. Is everyone talking to themselves, or do the industry honchos read this stuff, listen and build future models accordingly? Would be interesting to know, but have yet to see any hints from officialdom, only surmising by the enthusiasts. Let's talk about MPG gauges. signed--Polenta
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    polenta... For now, be pleased with your IS gauges. BMW has been reducing the number of gauges in their cars. The new 5 Series lost one (including the M5). Wish Lexus gave the IS 6 real gauges, like you can get in a Mustang and like I had in my '97 Camaro. All cars should have gauges for speedo, tach, oil temp, oil pressure, electrical, and water temp, plus fuel and trip odometer.

    I concur that the MPG gauge is worthless. Think Lexus did it because BMW also has such a worthless gauge. [Thinking the European gauge is better in this regard. Believe it shows the amount of fuel consumed per 100 KM.]
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    'The IS can be improved in just about every imaginable way without any or a small price increase'

    It is admirable how Lexus managed to drop prices on the ES and GS models.

    Will it be easy for Toyota to not increase the price of a much improved IS? Unlikely!

    Why? Unlike the past when the US$ was strong relative to Japaneses Yen and steel prices were dirt cheap the opposite is happening now.

    It will be very hard for Lexus to maintain prices when the US$ is dropping like a boulder from a cliff and when prices of steel are increasing rapidly(Nissan stopped factory production because they cant get steel for any price).

    The reason the luxury and near luxury vehicle segment grew exponentially is because most luxury marques were able to keep a lid on any major price increases. Unfortunately the current situation is quite different.

    What is the future direction of pricing for a Lexus IS. Why not refer to the latest pricing of
    the RX400H---52k. Ouch! That is steep and I believe you can expect to see future inflationary prices for all luxury vehicles(except Cadillac/Lincolns---no foreign exchange risk with these vehicles).
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Ah. you are correct that the increase in value of the yen may cause prices to increase. But you also have to remember Toyota over the last 10 years has become better insulated against foreign currency fluctuations due to increased production of cars outside of Japan. I believe they generally use that advantage to keep prices from swinging widely among different products.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    You may be right for the models of Toyota manufactured in North America! Also Toyota is superb with productivity and may offset some of the increased costs. But they may not be superb enough to offset the increase in steel prices and the stronger Yen effect for cars manufactured in Japan.

    The IS I believe is manufactured in Japan and most of its components are from Japan. Toyota(like most large auto firms) hedges its foreign exchange risks with Futures contracts. Only problem is these contracts usually do not go beyond two years. And the current contracts already reflects a weakened US$. This is a Lose-Lose situation for Toyota or in fact for any other car firm that manufactures outside the USA.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Where did you get that pricing information for RX400h? Unless I am mistaken, the only difference is HSD added to the 3.3L V6, yes? Whats a fully optioned RX330 go for now, maybe $45K? I dont see a hybrid system adding $7000 to the price tag.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Lexusguy, here is the website. It is from a newsweek article. I am just as shocked as you are about the 7k premium.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6480057/site/newsweek/
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm going to wait for Lexus to officially price the car. If it is going to be $50K+, my guess is that its going to have other things the RX330 doesnt have besides an electric. Lexus does not have a history of ripping people off.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    It is not a question of ripping off people, it is a question of how to persuade customers to pay heftier prices for their vehicle.

    In the past--- at time of introduction the RX330h was a superior vehicle in terms of features and technology than the RX300, but they did not hike the price.
    Likewise with other models like the Prius ll vs. Prius l(a radical improvement, but it sold at the same price). Well this is not going to happen for the future IS. Expect to pay more, in fact much more for any improvements/features.

    Unlike the past, Lexus/Toyota will start charging higher prices and will justify it by pointing out improvements and new features. As I mentioned before this new era of pricing will be due to new inflationary pressures (steel, lower US$). With these higher cost pressures, Toyota will not be able to keep a lid on prices(unless they are willing to sell cars at a loss---similarily like GM)

    Toyota is still in the business of making money and they wil have to be quite persuasive in why the customer should pay higher prices.

     So my speculation is that the IS will be equipped with new gizmos ,features and with better performance. Ofcourse the marketing people will claim that the hefty price increase for the new IS will be worth every penny for all the extra toys the customer is getting.

    Some people will call it a "Rip Off" and the more susceptible ones will call it a "Bargain"
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Perhaps the cost of a regular RX has gone up more than I thought since the RX300. When I bought my '01 RX, fully loaded was around $42K. I just looked at C&Ds report of the RX330, they said maxing it out can cost as much as $50,000?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    By my calculations, a factory fully loaded RX330 tops at $48,400. Thats every option combo, excluding accessories.

    ~alpha
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Ah. Well that seems more reasonable then. I'm thinking that like the Accord Hybrid, RX400 will basically come with everything standard.
  • r2917r2917 Member Posts: 67
    First, I have no idea how someone could say the LS430's interior feels cheap. Obviously they havent spent more than 3 seconds in it because if they did they'd realize it is anything but.

    A couple years ago I remember reading an article about an AMCI evaluation of top luxury sedans and the LS430 was declared the finest car of the bunch. This was probably the most extensive evaluation I have seen of cars and was unbiased unlike all the car mags out there. You know a category where the LS finished tops? Fit & finish which dealt mostly with the interior....and note that this evaluation included all the top luxury sedans including a Rolls Royce and Bentley. For a car that a person feels has a "cheap" interior those professionals sure seemed to think otherwise! I tend to agree with their assessment of the LS interior and I've been around one for over 2 years.

    As for the RL interior, I do not know how someone could say it is inferior to the TL. The TL interior is nice but the RL's is just superior in every way and is pretty much up to Lexus standards save for the LS430's interior and I've been around Lexus cars for 10 years now so I'm familiar with them. When I first saw the TL earlier this year I was impressed with its interior and thought Acura was getting pretty close to Lexus interior levels...well they are there with the RL's interior.

    Regarding the new IS, I think they are going to increase its size and soften the handling and that saddens me because the size and chuckability fo the current IS is what made it such a great car that I love. Lexus blood flows through my body (all told there have been 7 lexus cars in 10 years in my family) but somewhat sadly, I decided to trade in my IS for the 2005 RL. I do realize it is bigger and won't have the same tossability as the IS but the RL is such an amazing package that I decided to live with its increased size...plus I wanted AWD for where I live. I do not like the interior of the new GS300/430 (won't even comment on the exterior) nor do I think the GS300 AWD model will better the RL as an overall package and the Infiniti M35 just turns me off as well.

    I really was looking forward to the next IS but I just think it is going to let me down like the new GS has let me down. Bummer.

    I do find it funny someone can crticize lexus for price increases and imply they are gouging the consumer. You know two companies that do this? BMW and Mercedes Benz. A lesser equipped S430 costs over 20 grand more than a loaded LS430 that is far more reliable. Surely if Lexus decided to increase the price of the LS it wouldn't be considered gouging the consumer.

    If Lexus adds a ton of luxury to the new IS and decides to price it a little higher then I don't see how that could be seen as bad. It'd still be cheaper than the new 3 series and I bet you the IS has more features.

    Do not understand why German car fans can't see they overpay big time for their cars (and then imply Japanese car brand are gouging customers if they increase the price when they improve the car) but to each their own.

    I shall go try and figure out how a BM S430 is worth 20 grand USD more than the LS430 aside from some silly "prestige" factor...
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I drive an LS as well, and agree with you its one of the finest in the class. The only other interior even in the running is A8L. Nothing else, including the XJ8, even comes close. The Jag's use of cheap plastic buttons, and hard plastic and vinyl everywhere is just disgusting. I was sorely disappointed in the car, and told the salesman that skimping on the interior is not the way for Ford to try and make up costs.

    As for LS vs. A8, I would give the nod to Audi on "presentation" and over all ambiance. Audi is just brilliant at that, which is why their interiors are consistently rated top notch. As for simplicity, materials quality, and a more old fashioned, less technical than the Audi approach is where the Lexus sits comfortably.
  • speedluxspeedlux Member Posts: 23
    Does anyone notice Lexus Dealer is expanding lately? There are two dealer in my town where I go by a lot are expanding about twice of there current lot. I will go others place to see if they are doing the same. What do you all think about their expanding?
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    The LS430 interior is definately not cheap, but I wouldn't use AMCI to back up your claim. AMCI is probably even less unbiased than automags. Lexus pays AMCI to do some of their testing & consulting. Lexus dealer ride & drive events are coordinated by AMCI.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    What is the saying in real estate: Location, location, location?

    Here in midwest, much of the expansion is tied to location issues. In Omaha, city/county growth out west.

    In Omaha, the Lexus dealer doubled his size about 5 or so years ago. But he opened "out west" a long time ago. He has a very nice dealership. The BMW dealer stayed put (he was out near the west) but did a complete renovation about 3 years ago. The Infiniti dealer is moving soon out west into a much larger facility. The Acura dealer just moved out west into a much larger facility.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    "First, I have no idea how someone could say the LS430's interior feels cheap"

    Opinion about the interior or superior feel is just opinion, not fact. No opinion of AMCI or any idividual on this forum can prove that the "Feel of Quality" is the best or worst.
  • tsx24tsx24 Member Posts: 85
    So is this the information we have so far? for the 06 model?

    2.5 V6 ~ 220 hp/185 lb-ft (AWD optional)
    3.5 V6 ~ 280 hp/260 lb-ft

    You know I think Lexus should just kill BMW and offer a 3.0 and a 3.5 liter engine to beat the 2.5 I6 and 3.0 I6 of BMW. Just match each of the price points but offer greater power, and luxury.
  • carman123carman123 Member Posts: 71
    "You know I think Lexus should just kill BMW and offer a 3.0 and a 3.5 liter engine to beat the 2.5 I6 and 3.0 I6 of BMW. Just match each of the price points but offer greater power, and luxury."

    I agree with you. However, I bet Lexus won't do this because a 3.0 V6 ~ 250 hp/230 lb-ft would be too close to the 3.5 in performance that very few buyers would opt for the larger (and significantly more profitable) engine. The 325i outsells the 330i about 4 to 1. People would like the larger engine, but for 6k most of them pass.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    "You know I think Lexus should just kill BMW and offer a 3.0 and a 3.5 liter engine to beat the 2.5 I6 and 3.0 I6 of BMW."

    Infiniti and various other auto firms kill BMW in terms of engine size and hp. Despite these attempts they are unable to kill the BMW 3 series as a benchmark vehicle.

    In the end its not the stats that count, but how it drives.
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