You don't even need to drive on the tire to tell if it is a run flat. Just letting the air out makes a non-RFT look flat (I think we all know what that looks like!), but a RFT will only look low in pressure.
kurtamaxxxguy, I think siping is a good idea if you live in an area that gets ice/snow. The lateral sipe=cuts break down the watery boundary layer on top of ice, and also provide more biting edges to break up sliding a little more than un-siped tires. The proof that tire engineers know about siping is illustrated by looking at the Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow tire -- click here compared to non-winter tire -- click here, noticing more siping on the winter tire.
If you sipe the tires at the dealer, it does void your warranty, as it might cause the tread to wear out just a little quicker. Not much difference in my experience, though.
Unfortunately I've no place to store winter tires ( small apartment w/o outdoor storage - typical of nearly all in my area ), hence the interest in something better than Geolanders.
I don't really buy the nitrogen hype and would never (knowingly) pay extra for it. I recently got new tires because the quoted price was competitive with other sources. To my surprise, when I paid and saw the itemized bill, I noticed I was charged $20 (total) for nitrogen. At that point, it was too late to argue (shame on me for not asking for a price breakdown up front).
So the question is, do I not cry over spilled milk and just add air when/if they need it (supposedly nitrogen will reduce the pressure variations due to temperature) or go back to the tire store when/if I to increase the pressure? The store is only 2 miles away and they said they would add nitrogen or even deflate the tire and refill with nitrogen if I have to add air in an emergency.
My inclination at this point, with the temps starting to drop, as it least keep the nitrogen thru the winter and see if the claims of more stable pressure are valid. (Btw, I am well aware that air is 80% nitrogen).
Nitrogen for tires. Since it's related to my knowledge area and I noticed a local chain of stores heavily advertising it (like bottled water) I did some research. If you plan to keep you truck tires through many cycles of retreading, you may reap a benefit from the decrease in oxygen deteriorating the rubber from the inside of the casing over those hundreds of thousands of miles. Otherwise it's a paper tiger money maker.
Do some research on the web for the generators that isolate nitrogen from the air and note how they're sold to the dealers as profit makers. The dealers don't bring in heavy metal tanks of pure nitrogen like a hospital or lab might get; they use a cheapshot generator that has a purity level of, well, not perfect. And the purity levels of the nitrogen deteriorate with age on the units, if they were good from the beginning.
So what you're putting in the tire isn't pure nitrogen anyhow. Since air is 80% nitrogen roughly, you're not gaining much. And unless you're retreading the tires to keep them many years and layers of retread rubber you're not going to help. The outside of the tire is in oxygen anyhow!
The only other comment I've seen validity for is the dropping of moisture inside the casing to cause deterioration. I don't know how much that varies with various compressors. Some compressors have driers and some don't.
So if the tire buy falls for paying for "air," I have a suggestion to help. In the fall when the air is dry. let the air out of your tire and reinflate with "fall" dry air. That probably will do more to help longevity of your tire (or Shraeder valve) more than N2 as the impure stuff put into your tires.
Send the $20 to imidazol97 and use the carspace email to let me know you're ready. I'll send you an email with my post office box for the payment!!! Good luck.
"...as it least keep the nitrogen thru the winter and see if the claims of more stable pressure are valid."
Just debunked this myth. Tires were installed in low to mid 70s temps. Below 60 today, the car sat out and the pressures were down 1-2 psi in each tire. Same as they would have been with air. Won't waste my time trying to keep only nitrogen in them now.
Went to get new WRG2's put on my '09 Forester today. Turned out the shop (one of the first of a major tire chain) looked at the order form (it said WRG2) then promptly put another set of older WR's (brought in the same day the WRG2's did) on my car.
I did not see the mixup until I got back to the office, and immediately drove back to get LMC (larry, moe, curly ) to put the WRG2's on. The owner chewed LMC out over it, so it seemed an honest mistake. They'll actually pay me some money for the older tires (which are about 5K miles old).
This goofup gave me a very short comparison of the two versions. All I could really tell was the WRG2's appear somewhat stiffer. The WR's had some "rubberyness" over small bumps, as if the tread was squirming around a bit. On same bumps, The WRG2's were firmer.
They'll get a longer drive this evening to make sure everything is ok.
The dealer has pressured my Nokian WRG2 tires to 37 psi both front and rear.
Do Nokians require such high tire pressures?
The '09 Forester XT is rated at 32 psi front, 30 rear.
The high pressure made the Forester jittery on bumps, so I throttled pressure back to a compromise of 34 front and rear. That made the ride a whole lot better.
I'd stay with the auto manufacturer on this one - should give you the best compromise. A couple pounds over (like to your 34) would not hurt anything, but 37? Kinda high.
Yes, the tire dealer got back to me and said they usually start them at 35 psi (and botched it by going 37 ), but that they should be no lower than Subaru's ratings or else edges would wear out first.
I'll keep 'em a pound or two over recomendations, to allow for a little leakage over time.
Nokian itself answered my query and claims their WRG2's need 3 more psi than that recomended by the '09 Subaru Forester XT manual.
Factory = 32 F / 30 R
Nokian recomendation = 35 F / 33 R
I wonder if there is any direct comparison between WR's / WRG2's and regular all season tires like the Geolanders. I expect better ice traction with WRG2, but it would be nice to know how much more traction they can offer.
I have a 2008 Sienna Ltd - came with tires P225/60R17 Bridgestone EL42Z I would like to put winter rims/wheels & tires on van . looking to find second hand vs $1000 for new set Do I have to go with 17 inch rims & tires? will 16 inch rim & tires work ?
Hi, I have this problem with my tires, they are always deflating. And when I'm saying deflating I mean deflating. I keep going to the autoshop (3 different one) and they tell me I have to change the valve of the tires. Ok, fine. So I do it. But correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a tire needs a change of valve every 3 months or so. I check air pressure once a week and make sure it's ok. But still the problem remains. So I changed my tires once already and the guy at the shop told me to put nitrogen in it to make sure it doesn't deflate that much. (ok I've read about it and I know there's not much of a difference between air and nitrogen but at this point I'm ready to try anything). But still, the tires are deflating. And I'm tired of people pointing my tires while passing me by on the road to tell me I have a flat. So I'm lost here. I don't know what to do anymore. If someone has any idea what could help, please feel free to answer this post. Take care all! S
"Proud" owner of a Toyota Tercel 1998 with Goodyear Nordic in winter and Motomaster AW in summer (I know not the best tires around but it's hard to find a 13 inches tire these days, on a budget :confuse: )
My tire dealer says that there are really not any aggressive tires for my eclipse its a 96 AWD with manual and turbo. The tires currently on it P215/50 R 17 93T Yokohama. I bought it used a couple months ago. There are a lot of occasions when I will be driving on unplowed roads (mainly interstate) due to my job being a 24/7 job. I am cheap and do not want to spend a nickel more than nessasary. But I do want to choose the "grippiest" tire I can. Please advise
Take the tires off the vehicle and submerge them in a tub of water. A kiddy pool works well for this purpose. Notice where the bubbles come from.
It isn't clear from your post how long it takes to have the tires air down (I'm thinking the best way to state this would be X psi over Y amount of time.) and it's also unclear if it is all 4 tires or just one.
But I can tell you that alloy wheels are clear coated to seal the pores in the metal, and that clearcoat develops microscopic cracks over time and will leak.
It's most likely corrosion on your alloy wheels.. Next time you have the tires off, make sure they scrub the contact areas of the wheels down with a wire brush... But, if it keeps happening, a cheap set of new alloy wheels might be the best solution. Speaking from experience...
Rookie here....would like to replace my Tracker original 205/75/15's with a low pressure ATV-like tire. This is for completely off-road use in sand and mud. Help please.
Most of the time I just use a pail of soapy water instead of an immersion test. I'll inflate the tires a bit over their recommeded pressure and then gently pour water over the various areas of the tire. Sometimes I can even find the trouble spot without dismounting the wheels from the car.
Thetosquire, I don't know if this helps but my son had this problem with tires he purchased from Discount Tire. He was told there was a recall on the tire valves/stems sold within a specified time period ( I don't know the time period). Therefore, your auto shop might be continously replacing your tire valves/stems with defective ones. I would try going to a different auto shop to see what happens.
I'm waiting for my local dealer to get his Nokians in stock. I'm getting very close to my state inspection time, so I hope they come in soon. I'm looking to throw on a set of the WRG2's on my Passat.
Your comments on inflation pressure is interesting to me. I think my owner's manaual says that with winter tires I should add 3 lbs of pressure. Sounds like Nokian concurs. How are they riding at the pressures you are currently using?
Nitrogen is, for the most part a scam. You've got a major leak someplace, and neither nitrogen, flubbydust, or unobtanium is going to help until you get rid of the leak.
I would look for rust/corrosion where the valve stem fits through the rim and where the tire bead makes contact with the rim. I also agree with those that have suggested a soapy water test.
Subaru normally has pressure 2 psi less in the back. With equal pressure front and back, and 1 or 2 people inside, the forester's rear end has a tendency to hop over bumps.
Nokian recomended around 3 psi over factory specs, but for now to keep the ride decent I've left it 2 psi over Subaru's.
Haven't you heard that unobtanium fixes all leaks? It is fill once and forget substance. The only problem is that you must not overinflate, there is no way of reducing the pressure - it is a side effect of "fix all leaks" feature.
;-)
Krzys
PS Soap test is good idea. Immersion test is probably the best but children bubble solution or dishsoap solution in sprayer might be the easiest to apply (to the outside of the wheel/tire at least). Good luck. PS2 Check www.discounttire.com web page (other tire places might be affected too). There is ongoing valve stem recall.
Need to get a set of WRG2s for my Outback 3.0R and was thinking of heading down to your neck of the woods to save the tax (we've got a couple other purchases to make, so it's worth the extra gas). Can you tell me where you got 'em and what the cost was?
I've been looking around and not very many places carry these. With few options, I don't know how competitive the pricing is. I know tirerack.com used to sell 'em, but I don't see Nokian tires on their website anymore.
Give a call to the folks at www.tirerack.com, or just browse their webiste, and ask them what they might recommend in your price range. They offer a lot of good information and they have user reviews on whatever tire you are looking at.
Keep in mind that "grippy" tires may not give you long mileage, so when you go from wet season to dry you may end up with more tire wear than you expected. Everything's a compromise to some extent.
I bought mine from Sunset Tire Factory which is near the intersection of 26 and Murray road (the tire factory chain in general handles Nokians). They also provided a road hazard and tread mileage guarantee for no extra cost. I do not know how many they have in their warehouse.
These WRG2's are darn impressive. Previously with the Geolanders, I had to apply a small amount of throttle to get my Forester to keep up speed descending a shallow grade (that's right, accelerating to go __down__ a hill !!). The Nokians changed that - the car now gains speed rolling down the same hills. My MPG also seems to have improved - originally I would get only 18 mpg in city driving. It's now up to 20.
Awesome. :shades: My 3.0R could use the mileage boost as well... MPG is similar to what your XT's was. Nokian seems to be carried exclusively at Tire Factory shops up here, too... wish there was more competition than amongst dealers in the same chain.
Now, do I have a shot at getting these for under *gulp* a thousand bucks?
Bryan, if you need only dedicated winter tires, Michelin X-ice, Bridgestone Blizzak 60 series or Nokian Hakkapeliitta are good choices. You can see demos of them on YouTube (one video shows a car with Blizzaks getting stuck on a driveway, while same car with Nokians goes up without hesitation). My guess's the Blizzaks will be cheapest and Nokians the most expensive.
If you are leaning towards winter tires that are driveable in summer, there's Yokohama W.drive and the Nokian WR and WRG2. The W.Drive and WRG2 tread patterns are somewhat similar. However, the W.drive literature says little about summer driving, and Yoko rolling resistance seems higher than Nokian.
I'm buying a new tire soon and I'm really confused on which tire to buy... Any suggestions on which ones? I have a 2004 Hyundai Elantra GLS and I think right now, it's using Michelin MXV4 or something with different rear tires (Just bought the car so I have no idea what the previous owner was thinking...)
Right now, I narrowed it down to these options...
link titleBridgestone RE960 AS Pole Position for $68 GoodYear Assurance TripleTred for $ 58 (Maybe, since one of my friend might be able to get a $40 each tire employee's discount) Kumho Solus KH16 for $59 Kumho LX Platinum- for $68 Falken Ziex ZE-912 for $59 (With a probable additional 30% with eBay Microsoft Cashback, since discounttiredirect.com sell in eBay)
I know, for Bridgestone it's more brand than anything and I've heard bad stories about GoodYear but just thought the price are justifiable?
Thanks for all the help!
Just looking for opinions to help me decided... Right now I'm leaning towards Falken but it can(And most probably will) change
As I recall, Tirerack rates Tripletreds very highly in wet and dry and for noise and ride comfort. If you don't drive in snow, they might be a good choice.
The GY Tripletreads I had on my Malibu Maxx were nothing impressive in snow. In light snow they seemed ok but as soon as roads got icy the car became a giant Ice Skate. On one snowy/icy hill it quickly got stuck along with 9 other cars.
Might want to look at the Cooper CS4...I've had them put on my wife's 2003 Honda CRV, & with 13,000 miles on them (a few big snowstorms here in WI) - they've been great!
Personally I'd stay away from the Bridgestone/Firestone tires, but I've heard/read good things about the Kumho's.
I have RE960 but they were not used in the snow. From your list I would pick Bridgestone as I like UHP or HP all seasons more than touring or GT tires.
Is Nokian the only one using canola oil for formulating tire rubber?
The feel of the WRG2's is certainly different than any other tire I've owned. They seem less harsh over small, sharp bumps even with their recomended pressure increase over stock.
Comments
1. Will it void a Yokohama tires' warranty?
2. Drawbacks?
Les Schwab pushed this really hard when I researched better all season tires for occasional winter driving
I think siping is a good idea if you live in an area that gets ice/snow. The lateral sipe=cuts break down the watery boundary layer on top of ice, and also provide more biting edges to break up sliding a little more than un-siped tires. The proof that tire engineers know about siping is illustrated by looking at the Pirelli Scorpion Ice and Snow tire -- click here compared to non-winter tire -- click here, noticing more siping on the winter tire.
If you sipe the tires at the dealer, it does void your warranty, as it might cause the tread to wear out just a little quicker. Not much difference in my experience, though.
Krzys
So the question is, do I not cry over spilled milk and just add air when/if they need it (supposedly nitrogen will reduce the pressure variations due to temperature) or go back to the tire store when/if I to increase the pressure? The store is only 2 miles away and they said they would add nitrogen or even deflate the tire and refill with nitrogen if I have to add air in an emergency.
My inclination at this point, with the temps starting to drop, as it least keep the nitrogen thru the winter and see if the claims of more stable pressure are valid. (Btw, I am well aware that air is 80% nitrogen).
Do some research on the web for the generators that isolate nitrogen from the air and note how they're sold to the dealers as profit makers. The dealers don't bring in heavy metal tanks of pure nitrogen like a hospital or lab might get; they use a cheapshot generator that has a purity level of, well, not perfect. And the purity levels of the nitrogen deteriorate with age on the units, if they were good from the beginning.
So what you're putting in the tire isn't pure nitrogen anyhow. Since air is 80% nitrogen roughly, you're not gaining much. And unless you're retreading the tires to keep them many years and layers of retread rubber you're not going to help. The outside of the tire is in oxygen anyhow!
The only other comment I've seen validity for is the dropping of moisture inside the casing to cause deterioration. I don't know how much that varies with various compressors. Some compressors have driers and some don't.
So if the tire buy falls for paying for "air," I have a suggestion to help. In the fall when the air is dry. let the air out of your tire and reinflate with "fall" dry air. That probably will do more to help longevity of your tire (or Shraeder valve) more than N2 as the impure stuff put into your tires.
Send the $20 to imidazol97 and use the carspace email to let me know you're ready. I'll send you an email with my post office box for the payment!!! Good luck.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just debunked this myth. Tires were installed in low to mid 70s temps. Below 60 today, the car sat out and the pressures were down 1-2 psi in each tire. Same as they would have been with air. Won't waste my time trying to keep only nitrogen in them now.
I did not see the mixup until I got back to the office, and immediately drove back to get LMC (larry, moe, curly
The owner chewed LMC out over it, so it seemed an honest mistake.
They'll actually pay me some money for the older tires (which are about 5K miles old).
This goofup gave me a very short comparison of the two versions. All I could really tell was the WRG2's appear somewhat stiffer. The WR's had some "rubberyness" over small bumps, as if the tread was squirming around a bit. On same bumps, The WRG2's were firmer.
They'll get a longer drive this evening to make sure everything is ok.
Do Nokians require such high tire pressures?
The '09 Forester XT is rated at 32 psi front, 30 rear.
The high pressure made the Forester jittery on bumps, so I throttled pressure back to a compromise of 34 front and rear. That made the ride a whole lot better.
Comments?
I'll keep 'em a pound or two over recomendations, to allow for a little leakage over time.
Factory = 32 F / 30 R
Nokian recomendation = 35 F / 33 R
I wonder if there is any direct comparison between WR's / WRG2's and regular all season tires like the Geolanders. I expect better ice traction with WRG2, but it would be nice to know how much more traction they can offer.
came with tires P225/60R17 Bridgestone EL42Z
I would like to put winter rims/wheels & tires on van .
looking to find second hand vs $1000 for new set
Do I have to go with 17 inch rims & tires?
will 16 inch rim & tires work ?
I have this problem with my tires, they are always deflating. And when I'm saying deflating I mean deflating. I keep going to the autoshop (3 different one) and they tell me I have to change the valve of the tires. Ok, fine. So I do it. But correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a tire needs a change of valve every 3 months or so. I check air pressure once a week and make sure it's ok. But still the problem remains. So I changed my tires once already and the guy at the shop told me to put nitrogen in it to make sure it doesn't deflate that much. (ok I've read about it and I know there's not much of a difference between air and nitrogen but at this point I'm ready to try anything).
But still, the tires are deflating. And I'm tired of people pointing my tires while passing me by on the road to tell me I have a flat. So I'm lost here. I don't know what to do anymore. If someone has any idea what could help, please feel free to answer this post. Take care all!
S
"Proud" owner of a Toyota Tercel 1998 with Goodyear Nordic in winter and Motomaster AW in summer (I know not the best tires around but it's hard to find a 13 inches tire these days, on a budget :confuse: )
thanks in advance
Bryan
I think it is time to do an immersion test.
Take the tires off the vehicle and submerge them in a tub of water. A kiddy pool works well for this purpose. Notice where the bubbles come from.
It isn't clear from your post how long it takes to have the tires air down (I'm thinking the best way to state this would be X psi over Y amount of time.) and it's also unclear if it is all 4 tires or just one.
But I can tell you that alloy wheels are clear coated to seal the pores in the metal, and that clearcoat develops microscopic cracks over time and will leak.
It's most likely corrosion on your alloy wheels.. Next time you have the tires off, make sure they scrub the contact areas of the wheels down with a wire brush... But, if it keeps happening, a cheap set of new alloy wheels might be the best solution. Speaking from experience...
regards,
kyfdx
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Your comments on inflation pressure is interesting to me. I think my owner's manaual says that with winter tires I should add 3 lbs of pressure. Sounds like Nokian concurs. How are they riding at the pressures you are currently using?
I would look for rust/corrosion where the valve stem fits through the rim and where the tire bead makes contact with the rim. I also agree with those that have suggested a soapy water test.
Subaru normally has pressure 2 psi less in the back. With equal pressure front and back, and 1 or 2 people inside, the forester's rear end has a tendency to hop over bumps.
Nokian recomended around 3 psi over factory specs, but for now to keep the ride decent I've left it 2 psi over Subaru's.
It is fill once and forget substance. The only problem is that you must not overinflate, there is no way of reducing the pressure - it is a side effect of "fix all leaks" feature.
;-)
Krzys
PS Soap test is good idea. Immersion test is probably the best but children bubble solution or dishsoap solution in sprayer might be the easiest to apply (to the outside of the wheel/tire at least). Good luck.
PS2 Check www.discounttire.com web page (other tire places might be affected too). There is ongoing valve stem recall.
Need to get a set of WRG2s for my Outback 3.0R and was thinking of heading down to your neck of the woods to save the tax (we've got a couple other purchases to make, so it's worth the extra gas). Can you tell me where you got 'em and what the cost was?
I've been looking around and not very many places carry these. With few options, I don't know how competitive the pricing is. I know tirerack.com used to sell 'em, but I don't see Nokian tires on their website anymore.
- Jeff
thanks
Bryan
Keep in mind that "grippy" tires may not give you long mileage, so when you go from wet season to dry you may end up with more tire wear than you expected. Everything's a compromise to some extent.
These WRG2's are darn impressive. Previously with the Geolanders, I had to apply a small amount of throttle to get my Forester to keep up speed descending a shallow grade (that's right, accelerating to go __down__ a hill !!). The Nokians changed that - the car now gains speed rolling down the same hills. My MPG also seems to have improved - originally I would get only 18 mpg in city driving. It's now up to 20.
Now, do I have a shot at getting these for under *gulp* a thousand bucks?
If you are leaning towards winter tires that are driveable in summer, there's Yokohama W.drive and the Nokian WR and WRG2. The W.Drive and WRG2 tread patterns are somewhat similar. However, the W.drive literature says little about summer driving, and Yoko rolling resistance seems higher than Nokian.
I'm buying a new tire soon and I'm really confused on which tire to buy... Any suggestions on which ones? I have a 2004 Hyundai Elantra GLS and I think right now, it's using Michelin MXV4 or something with different rear tires (Just bought the car so I have no idea what the previous owner was thinking...)
Right now, I narrowed it down to these options...
link titleBridgestone RE960 AS Pole Position for $68
GoodYear Assurance TripleTred for $ 58 (Maybe, since one of my friend might be able to get a $40 each tire employee's discount)
Kumho Solus KH16 for $59
Kumho LX Platinum- for $68
Falken Ziex ZE-912 for $59 (With a probable additional 30% with eBay Microsoft Cashback, since discounttiredirect.com sell in eBay)
I know, for Bridgestone it's more brand than anything and I've heard bad stories about GoodYear but just thought the price are justifiable?
Thanks for all the help!
Just looking for opinions to help me decided...
On one snowy/icy hill it quickly got stuck along with 9 other cars.
In the Dry, or in rain, they seemed to work ok.
Personally I'd stay away from the Bridgestone/Firestone tires, but I've heard/read good things about the Kumho's.
Krzys
The feel of the WRG2's is certainly different than any other tire I've owned. They seem less harsh over small, sharp bumps even with their recomended pressure increase over stock.
Is this true for Nokians in general?
LOLOLOL
Thanks, I needed that.