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Comments
I have recently test driven a similarly equipped yukon and feel like the Seq. is all round a better vehicle. I love the performance of the smaller Seq. engine - it is very smooth, has excellent acceleration - I found the yukon to be a bit sluggish.
It also drives "smaller" than the yukon IMO and of course the fit and finish seemed better.
The Seq. sticker was $38,700. Yeah, I live in the southeast (charleston,sc) and was a bit confused when it came time to break down this invoice for comparison purposes.
the bottom line is the best price they would give me was about $2,000 off their MSRP.
My problem is that my wife and I already have primary vehicles and we are trying to replace a 98 pathfinder that we use to tow the jet ski and go on the road for football games. We've had the vehicle for nearly three yrs and have 20,000 miles on it. The pathfinder has been a great vehicle, not one single problem, but it just is not quite big enough or comfortable enough to bring on the road. My wife drives an older mercedes 380 sl and I drive a company-paid-for sedan.
Had the dealer given me an unbelievable deal I may have jumped at it but I'll continue to drive other models and see what I do. My friend at the caddy dealer has a used escalade coming off a lease with about 35,000 miles and I might look at it, or I may opt for a used tahoe,yukon or suburbun for around $25,000.
In the end I may end up right back with the Sequoia but hope the prices come down alittle. If anyone has had any experience with the 2000 escalade or thinks they have a better idea for me to consider based on my situation I would love to hear from you.
BTW, when I returned the Seq. this mornin it was rainin really bad, bot the vehicle made you feel like the king of the road in the downpour - very impressive.
I spent a fair amount time off-road last week in Moab, Utah, and learned quite a bit about how the Sequoia performs in actual off-road conditions. The trails were rated up to 3 1/2 (at 4 you risk vehicle damage), and included sand, slickrock (sandstone), streams, and slopes. I have some pictures, but haven't figured out exactly how to share them here.
First let me say that my baseline is an older ('84) stick-shift Landcruiser, so while the Sequoia was different, it was familiar in many ways. Here are some observations and possible points for later discussion.
The Sequoia can do trails rated up to 2 1/2 in high range. Beyond that you need low range. I will limit the rest of the discussion here to low range performance.
In low range, the Sequoia has plenty of engine and braking power for the steepest hills (~35 degrees) that I tried. It also had no power problems climbing ledges, but traction was sometimes an issue when there was loose dirt mixes in with the rock.
I did some experimentation in Low/Low (locked center differential) vs Low/Second (VCS/Tracs). What I found was that you had to turn VCS off, otherwise it kicked in (and messed with the throttle and braking) when you didn't want it to, because the wheels will slip on sand and dirt.
On the other hand, I ran into at least one case climbing a dirty rock ledge where L/L wouldn't make it up(diagonally opposite wheels were slipping), but L/S (and Active-Trac) got me up. It was not smooth or quiet, but it outperformed the locked center differential.
However L/S was deadly going down hill (on steep hills). There was definitely insufficient engine braking. But you don't need (or want) Active-Trac going down hill. So my rules for off-road driving-mode selection are actually pretty simple:
1. In 4WD Low Range off-road, turn off VCS (push the button) and use L/D.
2. In Low Range going up a difficult hill, use L/S (Active-Trac).
3. In Low Range going down a difficult hill, use L/L (Max. Engine Braking).
The second thing I noticed is that size matters. The Sequoia is long and wide. The width came into play in maneuvering around large (>1 ft.) rocks on the sides of the trails and narrow trails. There were also some very tight turns that required a bit of jockying. But it's better than a Hummer, and to tell the truth, the tightest turns were in the City Market parking lot.
The length is another story. The Sequoia is a looooong truck. It has plenty of ground clearance (I may have hit the skidplates once or twice), and so the breakover angle was not a big issue. I thought the running boards would take hits, but they are high enough and tucked in well enough that they were not a problem. But I would want to remove them (8 bolts each) before trying a 4-rated trail.
I only touched the underside of the front bumper once, so I am satisfied with the approach angle. But the departure angle (and that long tail) leaves a lot to be desired. I hit the trailer hitch receiver many times (that's to be expected -- I consider it part of the skid plate system). But I also hit the underside of the giant one-piece plastic rear bumper a few times (which is 2" higher, but who said the rock was perfectly level).
The PLASTIC bumper is definitely not part of the skid plate system (or at least not for very long). Hey Toyota people who supposedly read this board, when sandstone meets plastic, guess what always wins!! This was a design mistake.
So crossing gullys (and any other concave surface) became an interesting challenge, and I would have to say that the limiting factor to the Sequoia's off-road performance is the integrity of the giant one-piece rear plastic bumper cover.
Do 2001 4-Runners and Land Cruisers also have these plastic bumber covers??
I should also mention tires. I did these trails with some trepidation given the stock passenger car Bridgestones. In the future, I will replace them with something starting with LT and having a C or D load rating. Maybe Michelin LTX A/T 265/75R16's. That would be add 1/2" to the height, and be much safer off-road. The odometer would take a 3.4% hit (that improves the warranty), but the speedometer would finally be right. I also think the ABS/VCS/Tracs ECU's could wouldn't notice the minor difference.
Beyond the 1/2" tire lift, I do need a solution to protecting the left and right underside of the rear bumper cover. Some sort of real skid plate or sacrificial add-on. Any suggestions would be welcome. I would be reluctant to consider lifts or air shocks, because I don't want to mess too much with the suspension or ride. Maybe TRD or Toyota off-road will offer something someday. In time there will be Sequoias in the junkyard with good rear bumper covers. Maybe I can make something suitable out of one of them.
Finally, I must say that it was a pure pleasure to cruise the western freeways at 75-80 mph. I never felt fatigued even after a full day of driving, and the vehicle generally performed flawlesly on the highway. On the other hand, it only got 15 - 16 mpg at 75 mph (I suppose it would have done better at 55 mph).
I was alittle disappointed in the attempt at a "reasonable" discussion in response to other's questions on negotiating a better price from a dealer on a solid vehicle like the Sequoia. Not at all surprised by the parting shots from my good friend dforr. Nobody likes to find out that that others spent alot less buying the same vehicle. Probably explains his flames on this site and others in Edmunds. Abit immature, but to each his own.
BTW, we practice equal opportunity puncturing of egos, big and small.
Honestly, you'll encounter loyalists anywhere you bring together owners of different makes. Some (like me) have had good experiences with a few makes (Isuzu, GMC, Toyota) and bad ones with others (Dodge, Jeep, Cadillac) and the only relevance that has is to MY situation. Others take what they want from my posts.
Toyota makes a good product, to me. Chevrolet almost got me into a Tahoe. It's that good folks. But I still have a lingering distrust for GM quality in general. (And I have family working at the GM Plant here in Shreveport.) So we'll save a little more to get that Toyota feeling (a good feeling) and rest easy with the peace of mind that comes with Toyota ownership. MY OPINION...
As far as dealers/sales staff posting here: keep it coming, folks. The occassional whiner may not like you being here, but I value your input, and it's gonna help me better educate myself.
Invoice v. MSRP--potato, potata. If you know where you are in your deal, it doesn't matter where you start from. Just be ready to walk if'n ya can't get yer deal! If I can't get my particular vehicle (7920-SR5 4WD) with my desired options (AC-dual air, AH-Alloy wheel pkg, GY-side curtains, CC-pwr cpt chairs, CQ-conv pkg, SR-roof) for my desired price (~$36,800) then I'll keep looking. If no one will take the deal, then the Tahoe/Yukon are back in the mix. It's all in how educated you are about the process, and how much you really want that rig.
My 2 centavos...
Bobby
PS Prefer Silver Sky with Lt. Charcoal, but we'll take Thunder Gray, Natural White, or Jade with Lt. Charcoal as 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices.
I've received decent offers from Southern California, but the shipping is not cheap, and the whole issue of shipping damage/liability comes into play. Dianne at Carson would be the only one I'd feel comfortable doing that type of deal with.
Truth be told, it's a hot commodity, and if we can't get one, I'll be disappointed with our second choice, only because of the VSC/Side Curtain Airbags. If Chevy had these, I'd be more apt to like the Tahoe. We'll see....
Di, sorry to be so scarce but I have been unbelievably swamped.
Di
Di
The Prolific CATFISH
Cheers
Mountainman
THE PROLIFIC CATFISH
I have been shopping for a suv and I think I have decided on a Sequioa. Anyone know of a good dealer in the Midwest (I live in Iowa City). Are these going for MSRP? I was looking at the MDX and they would not budge from MSRP.
Thanks you in advance.
GIPP
I mentioned the information I learned here to two of the dealers and they made some calls and changed their tune. Then I called Toyota customer service myself. They had me on hold a long time (showing that they were probably discussing how to answer my question). They said they "did not recommend" adding the leather--they said they would recommend instead it being added at the factory. I told the dealer I am working with what they said and he reiterated that they do put on-site leather on Sequoias with airbags with no problem. He INSISTED it was perfectly safe and would in no way affect the airbag function. He sounded very convincing. The cost difference is about $700-$800 between on-site leather and the PM package (I only care about getting leather--not the 6 disc CD and other features of the PM package--I hate to pay so much for features I don't care about). Who should I believe?
I am being very direct and succinct because I believe what I am telling you. On page 64 of the Highlander manual, for instance, it says very clearly:
DO NOT MODIFY OR REPLACE THE SEATS OR UPHOLSTERY OF THE FRONT SEATS WITH THE SIDE AIRBAGS.... SUCH CHANGES MAY DISABLE THE SYSTEM OR CAUSE SIDE AIRBAGS TO INFLATE ACCIDENTALLY, RESULTING IN DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY...
Grrr! Stores that openly defy safety issues to make a buck just disgust me.
Dianne
Catfish
thanks
Same color at that, Silver & Charcoal.
Bought from Wilkins Toyota in the Minneapolis area the sales guy was Craig Fuhs
Flew in from Richmond, picked up Saturday put on 1250 miles on Sat & Sun. Average about 17.5 mpg.
Picked up my SR5 4x4 on Saturday from a dealer in Minneapolis 1250 miles away (referred to by zinny2, thanks!). Got the GY option that I wanted.
Such a pleasant experience buying and owning this car (5 days at that) I would do it again in a heart beat. Very glad to have dealt with the dealer, he gave me a quote over the phone, didn't even bother to haggle a cent ($35,550 that's $550 over invoice). Without putting down a deposit, he prepped the SUV, and topped it with a full tank of gas, waiting for me to pickup saturday. Two hours later, I was driving down the highway.
Took the dealers's advice to vary the speed (not using cruise control) between 50-65 from MSP to Chicago on Saturday. A bit more than 400 miles trip of cruising comfort, how did Toyota do it? The SEQ doesn't drive like a truck, but you could certainly feel the solid body, and stability of the vehicle.
I'm glad I bought the 4WD. While going through IN, OH and PA, I ran into a snow storm Sunday morning, visibility was about 200 yards max. The traction felt great.
Lots of power in in that engine. I had to be mindful with the accelerator. Just a tap, and before I know it, I'd be effortlessly cruising at 85 mph. So, to be safe, and didn't want a ticket with the new vehicle I put it in cruise control at 75 MPH, around 2300 RPM the rest of the way.
Overall, 1200 miles ain't that far. Got me a car with the options that I wanted, for a great price and didn't have to wait 8 - 10 weeks for an order.
Email me at minh@ellesa.com if you want more info on the dealer.
2) Toyota Vision? This is the DVD video set mounted on the ceiling of the car. It's available as an option for the Sienna. The SEQ is such a nice cruising vehicle, when coupled with the Vision set, those long trips could be lots of fun even with lots of kiddies in the car.
3) Wireless access to the Internet with an USB port that allows you to plug in your PC or PALM to surf & retrieve email, download maps while on the road, at the beach etc. Dream on, I guess. On the other hand, it won't be long. The technologies are already available, just a matter of implementation.
I did the fly-drive round trip to pick up the SUV last weekend from them. And they had GY option on the ones they quoted me.
I have an order for a 4X4 SR5 SEQ with CC AH CQ DR GY RL G4 GN for $33,900. If you want to email me at wstill1071@aol.com I will send you Craig's phone number and other contact info.
Good luck.
zinny
Just so you know...SPRING HAS NOT SPRUNG in Minnesota yet....34 degrees and snowing.
regards,
zinny
Remember...if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
Louie
Louie
You said it right, there! The Trooper wasn't a bad vehicle, but she wasn't happy. Hence the quick (for us) switch after less than two years. We will be keeping the Sequoia much longer than that, I'd project at least eight years. It's the most expensive vehicle either of us has ever bought, but what it has (safety, room, durability, comfort, versatility) matches perfectly with our current and future needs/wants. The Trooper was way too much impulse-buying, and in retrospect, a dumb decision on our part. That's why I'm putting so much effort into making sure we get EXACTLY what we want, no more, no less.
Zinny, thanks for the email address...
Bobby
CATFISH
From your descriptions, it seems my hunch was correct about the rev limiter. I know this will kick in when in 2WD, but I have not been able to make it engage in 4WD. I am glad to see your experiences match mine. I was a bit nervous about this.
Thanks for the well done off road review. I hope more people take the time to go back and read it.
AC, AH. CQ. DR. GY. PM RL and SR. With dest. and advertising fee and dealer set profit of $1,200, and $6 gas charge, the cost of the thing is $38,597. Please educate me on this matter. Thanks.
The TDA fee varies by region. $620 is high, but not the highest. In Northern CA, it runs a bit higher. In the Central Atlantic Region, we pay 2.1% of base invoice and there is no cap. Southern CA is capped at $300, the mid west is capped at $250. The Northeast is at 2% with no cap. This is a real invoiced expense that the dealers are not reimbursed for. This has been discussed at length recently.
zinny
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960 of 1811 hoot...hoot by thirdsuv Feb 09, 2001 (03:55 pm)
Can't pass up the razzing...enjoy
"why don't I just break the bank and get a brand new 2002 Cadillac Escalade for $50,000? "
All that means is that you'll be "breaking down in style". Come on, 10-15K$ bump over Yuckon/Towmehome for a bigger engine and softer leather?????
BMW4.4.....leave it to BMW to fullfill the
market niche of SUV drivers who feel the need to go 100mph
SEQ towing capacity....
It's enough to tow your Esscalade back to the dealer for repair
"I'll be the first one to the next light in my Vortec"
No, it's more likely your be in the ROAD BERM
of the next light with the hood up trying to figure out what broke....again
cheers
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YES CHEERS, AGAIN!!!!