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Towing: In my opinion, towing is serious business because it increases risk to the passengers and other motorists.Power (hp and torque), wheelbase, braking, hitch capacities, load leveling, etc are all important elements. A deficiency in any one area can spell disaster or at least disappointment. If I planned on towing over 2500lbs, I would definitely be concerned about using the Sequoia. Why? 1) My previous 4.7l truck felt somewhat underpowered pulling an empty 3500lb trailer over slopes. It certainly was sufficient and safe, but lacking nevertheless. 2) Both the 1997 truck I owned and the 2000 Suburban I owned said nothing about not exceeding 45mph while towing. I think this restriction may be more than simple legal jargon to limit Toyota liability -- if Toyota doesn't feel comfortable with their vehicle towing over 45mph, what does this say? I don't know with full confidence what this restriction means, but it would concern me because other similar tow vehicles don't have the same disclaimer. Plus, I can't imagine not driving over 45mph on highways and interstates -- I can hear the honks already.
It seems for those who want to tow, that some clarification on the 45mph limit, and real world Sequoia towing experiences would be helpful.
Towing is serious business. Trailers of 5000 pounds and greater pose significant difficulties and the potential for significant accidents.
Granted, many people may never tow this much, but the Sequ "claims" that it can do it. One would imagine, in light of its size, that it should.
However, Toyota drops two footnotes -- one for optional sway bars and one for 45 mph. Both of these should concern any serious tower. The former is easy to rectify -- a couple of hundred bucks and a day in the shop (provided the sway bars are even available for the Sequ at this time), the latter may not be rectifiable.
And, I seriously doubt that Toyota's lawyers are any more concerned, or better, than GM's, Ford's, Honda's or anyone elses. The 45 mph limit is probably there for a technical reason, not a legal one.
It appears the Sequ may not have been designed to tow, period. There is nothing wrong with this, but why not tell us? Why hide it in the Owner's Manual, which isn't going to be read until after you wrote the $45k check and took delivery.
You are absolutely wrong about the 4WD system. You obviously have not driven the Sequoia in 4WD and therefore you should stop making a fool out of yourself on this issue. I have proveded plenty of proof to this effect yet you continue to badger me on this. Call Toyota or something and ask them what difference there is beyond the 2WD and how the center differential is locked. You're wrong so stop it.
Have you measured the inside of a Sequoia to back up your plywood statement? I have and unless 52 inches is less than 48 inches, you are wrong and a liar again.
Give it a rest. If you want to debate the value of the vehicle, fine. If you want to lie and distort, go away.
Now back to the discussion at hand.
Please be specific and stop talking in generalities. Let's find out who the liar really is.
Specifically:
1) Does Toyota either recommend or require sway bars if you tow over 2000 pounds with the Sequ.
2) If yes, does Toyota "recommend" or "require" sway bars. Please cite to a written Toyota information on this.
3) Does Toyota either recommend or require that you not drive over 45 mph with a trailer?
4) Again, is it "recommend" or "require", and where is this written?
We really don't care about your personal spat. Sometimes I wonder if its just for the attention of writing and receiving a post. Sad.
To the rest: What kind and size of tires are these being delivered with? (4x4 versions)
Seats 7 with 3d row magic seat that folds into floor.
Tows 7,200 pounds.
Slightly less cargo room behind 3 seat when raised.
Safety features out the wazoo.
To be released in two months.
Save $15-20k.
Thanks for all the input along the way. Maybe when we trade in the minivan in a couple of years we can replace it with a Sequoia.
Cliffy - yes you ar right in sayng that the Sequoia will easily tow what most people haul, but I am afraid that your statement about average travel trailer weights isn't correct. Average size these days would fall into the 22-28' range, and these run about 5500-7000lbs. Yes, you can get "lite" versions which weigh less, but most of these are cardboard crap.
Yoss - thanks for the bucket seat info. We got the bench for various reasons. If the buckets removed like they do in our Sienna, we most certainly would have bought them.
Yoss part II - sorry, but let me quote from the Suburban brochure. "Any Yukon or Yukon XL can tow a 2000lb trailer without special equipment." Therefore, off the lot, your Suburban tows as well as our Sienna minivan based on your argument.
Further towing info - "A weight distributing hitch and sway control is required over 5000lb trailer weight. Trailers over 5000lb require optional Trailering Special Equipment (Z82)". Sounds just like the Sequoia doesn't it? There is no 45mph speed limit however.
Must go I'll bore you all with other things later
Please email me at Cuba213310@aol.com
The length is just over 71 inches to the end of the carpet and just over 74 inches to the end of the plastic sill. The back door does not cover the plastic sill but you may be limited by height if you go the full 74 inches.
Golfnuts - you asked in post #51 for my opinion on my Sequoia SR5 so far. With the risk of being called a cheerleader, I'll tell you that so far I really like the vehicle and have no regrets in making this purchase.
I have had the Seq for about a month now and put on around 3,000 miles. 80% or so of my driving is commuting 30 miles each way from a suburb to large city. I also use it to drive my kids and family around locally and to go on family trips.
Some aspects of this vehicle I've found to be both positive and negative from my prospective as follows:
1. Space. 90% of the time the space is adequate or better than adequate. However, on family trips such as our 4-day/200 mile drive on Thanksgiving (with lots of gear and luggage), I could use more space. I configure the vehicle with half of the third seat tumbled forward. I ride three kids in the second seat (only one is in a car seat) and one kid in the half of the third seat that is not tumbled forward. My kids prefer to be the one who sits in the third seat, and we need to alternate that "privilege". On the flip side, the large size makes parking in my parking garage at work pretty challenging as the spots are smallish and the space for maneuvering is tight. The extra size of the Sub would make fitting into these spots even more difficult.
2. Turning Radius/Height. This is another parking garage issue. The Seq is not easy to park in tight places. The height is pretty close to the maximum for this garage and never fails to make me nervous driving under some of the ceiling pipes (no hits yet after 25 or so days there, so I guess I'll be OK). The height however is great out on the road. I have a good view of the entire traffic situation and can see break lights well in advance which I think is a big safety feature.
3. Ergonomics. As I have said in prior posts, the radio controls are difficult to reach. I would also like a few inches of space under the second and third rows to carry long, thin objects (skies, hockey sticks, boards). The window control buttons can be difficult to find in the dark until you get used to it.
One nice surprise for me was the quality of the driver's seat. It has an electronic lumbar support adjustment that provides lots of lumbar support and allows me to vary the shape of my seat which makes long trips much more comfortable.
Love the engine (smooth) and the power and acceleration is nice for entering highways.
The vehicle is pretty quite for a truck. You can hear the engine noise, but not much else outside of the vehicle.
I have not gotten a chance to check out the 4-wheel drive in the snow yet (although living in New England should give me this opportunity soon, and often). However, owing to my road being totally rebuilt I have been driving everyday on a 1/2-mile long dirt road. After rain storms the road is muddy and slippery. The Seq goes through it with no problem at all. Its nice to see the 4WD in action, but on the other hand, even though I wash it every two weeks or so, my brand new truck is always dirty from the dust being kicked up by the roadwork and the cars driving by.
I have not towed my boat with it yet, but it shouldn't be a problem since my boat is only 20 feet long (ski boat) and weighs around 3,500 pounds, I only tow twice a year (I put it in the water in the spring, take it out in the fall), and the distance I need to travel in minimal (our vacation home where I store my boat is only 1.5 miles from the boat launch).
If you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to answer them as honestly as I can.
If it did, it should be fairly easy to park.
The Sub, which claims to have the same turning radius, is remarkably easy to park, and it is a foot longer than the Sequ.
Once again you take an opportunity to jump on the Seq without any facts and claiming that Toyota is lying about something with no facts backing you up. With your self-admitted habit of “stretching things” (see several posts above), your credibility must be approaching zero by now.
And $30 is a bargain compared to NYC.
The original Motor Trend article commented negatively on the Sequ's turning radius. I am curious to know exactly what it is, and, in light of Motor Trend's comment, I doubt it is as tight as what Toyota claimed.
Just like I was curious as to whether a four-foot wide piece of plywood would fit. I was off by a mere 1/2 inch.
In NYC, most garages won't accept full-sized SUV's, and many that do charge a $20 premium for them because they claim they take up an extra space.
Footnote #5 in Sequ specifications.
Was that 48 1/2 inches or centimeters?
That area between the wheel wells looks very narrow to me.
I believe that there is a general consensus among Tundra owners that actual MPG is much less than what is claimed on the sticker.
If I was Toyota, and I wanted to claim that I was as good as or better than the competition, two areas that would be very important to me would be turning radius and MPG. Could these be two areas where Toyota stretched things a bit to stay even on paper with the competition?
Personally, I disliked the feature more because it made it difficult to just throw something in the back of the truck. It is much easier to have a flip-open style window that releases and lifts quickly. You don't have to wait for the window to lower, there are no keys to turn, and you don't have to raise the whole liftgate.
The second row windows are another, but similar problem and are not an easy fix (and I am sure you will want to use those windows a lot more).
The problem is the large box (the truck) filled with air that has no where to go. Open a window to let more air in, and the air inside the truck, which has no where to go, acts like a drum that is being beat with a stick.
Open another window to allow a pressure release and the noise should go away.
Interesting engineering problem. Consequently, no Toyota dealer in the world we be able to fix it. This one is up to Toyota. Maybe in time for the next model year.
2) However, I am sure the EPA signed off on the Tundra's MPG too, and the Honda Odyssey for that matter. These appear to be two vehicles that get worse, much worse, actual MPG than what is claimed on the sticker.
3) In light of Hookey's statement, things look good so far. In addition, gas mileage and overall performance usual improve after initial break-in period.
1. What color most approximates "Marlin Blue" among other models so I can see what a blue Seq. might look like.
2. As a fan of Toyota, help me justify overall difference of about $12K between Tahoe/Suburban and the Sequoia. I mean "southern city boy" features, expected resale, etc. I don't care about 4WD, towing, typical SUV stuff. I sell real estate and want a big SUV for work.
Thanks in advance for your help. FYI, the "FINE" people reference relates to your reasonable natures aka relating to yoss.
2 wheel drive versions of the Tahoe/Suburban actually hold their value better than 4 wheel drive versions. Surprising, but check resale values on KBB and Edmunds.
I guess you can assume the same will be true for the Sequ. It may be because they last longer or are more reliable, but I really don't know.
The Sequ, like any Toyota product, should hold its value better than any GM product, but the Tahoes and Suburbans have the best resale value of anything GM sells. It could be that this was because there really wasn't any competition for these vehicles before, but there is now, which may impact the resale value of these GM products, but I doubt it will have any noticeable impact. Gas prices and rising SUV insurance costs are probably more of a concern when it comes to resale values.
On the other hand, you have to consider:
1) That you lose $600 in the extra sales tax/registration fees you have to pay for the Sequ due to the $10,000 difference in price;
2) Resale values are basically a percentage of the selling price. So, if the Sequ retains 80% of its value, for example, and the Sub retains 70% of its value, it would basically be a wash because of the price differential. E.g., 80% of $38k is about an $8000 loss. 70% of $28k is also about an $8000 loss. Just about the same thing at the end of the day.
3) If you put that $10k+ difference in the bank or invest it, you would make at least another $600 per year in interest too. Vice versa, if you have to take a loan to pay the difference, you are out $600+ a year in interest payments.
Thank you.
Like it or not, the first year run of a production model often times has lower resale value than subsequent years, especially if there are reported problems.
Too early to tell with the Sequ, but a valid issue.
Truce?
On my personal vehicles, my recently sold Tahoe and on my previous three Blazers, I had Goodyear, load range "D's" put on immediately. From experience driving my assigned "work" vehicle in desert environments, I found that I got flat tires from accidentally running over cactus when using standard equipped load range "b or c's". When changed to "D's" the puncture flats from cacti were eliminated.
Negative Comments:
1. turning radius could be better.
2. it is tall, and i have to turn off my radio coming into the parking garage or else my antenna bangs up against the ceiling.
3. My model is pretty stripped down. not much accessories, which is a good thing in a way. but they forgot little things, like no warning chime if you turn off your ignition and the lights are still on, and i wish the steering wheel extended out.
4. they could have made the gas tank 4-5 gallons bigger. The range for me is only about 350 miles without getting the gas warning light.
Positive Comments:
1. its got the sexiest lines of any suv on the road.
2. i like the suspension better than the new suburbans, which is also very nice.
3. big windows, big sunroof
4. quiet ride.
Questions: could some nice person respond to these:
1. I have noticed the booming base problem - or in my case, a treble that doesn't stack up to the base. anything i can do short of replacing the entire system (and neutering the base)?
2. has anyone else noticed that right when you put into drive and pull away there are two clicking sounds. what is that?
3. i only have 1500 miles, but my highway mileage that i have calculated is only about 14.5 mpg. averaging speeds of 75mph. isn't this a little low, or am i going too fast? should the mileage improve as the car breaks in?
4. are there any other raging idiots out there who paid msrp for a vehicle for the first time in their life?
Too bad they don't have a 17" wheel though. I like the 17" option on the Expedition.
Yoss - careful what you post - "but the Tahoes
and Suburbans have the best resale value of
anything GM sells."
I believe there is a sports car that GM sells that holds its value better than any other domestic vehicle.
It also has the 2nd best residual (as of last year) of any production vehicle made (Porsche is 1st).
Negative Comments:
1. turning radius could be better.
2. it is tall, and i have to turn off my radio coming into the parking garage or else my antenna bangs up against the ceiling.
3. My model is pretty stripped down. not much accessories, which is a good thing in a way. but they forgot little things, like no warning chime if you turn off your ignition and the lights are still on, and i wish the steering wheel extended out.
4. they could have made the gas tank 4-5 gallons bigger. The range for me is only about 350 miles without getting the gas warning light.
Positive Comments:
1. its got the sexiest lines of any suv on the road.
2. i like the suspension better than the new suburbans, which is also very nice.
3. big windows, big sunroof
4. quiet ride.
Questions: could some nice person respond to these:
1. I have noticed the booming base problem - or in my case, a treble that doesn't stack up to the base. anything i can do short of replacing the entire system (and neutering the base)?
2. has anyone else noticed that right when you put into drive and pull away there are two clicking sounds. what is that?
3. i only have 1500 miles, but my highway mileage that i have calculated is only about 14.5 mpg. averaging speeds of 75mph. isn't this a little low, or am i going too fast? should the mileage improve as the car breaks in?
4. are there any other raging idiots out there who paid msrp for a vehicle for the first time in their life?
-hope this helps.
Passager rated tires should not be on trucks! the side walls are way to thin.
Also, With toys I have found that you can NEVER go wrong with Micheline M/S. Look at most of your LC's they are running Michelines (sp?).
lastly, this guy talking about his seq not having a chime when the lights are left on and no gass light is kidding RIGHT!
I can not imagine that toy went that dang cheap with their seq.
I have to admit I had to laugh when I read his post. If this is true than shame on you toyota.
Truck
CCT1 - Don't get your cable hooked up yet. I'm confidant Yoss will return to form soon and the arguments will commence.
Truck - The truck definitely has a gaslight that goes on when the tank is about 1/8 full. It also has a computer that tells you how many miles you have left before the tank is empty. I'm not sure about whether there is a chime if you turn the truck off and take the keys out without turning the lights off. I don't think I've done that yet. I'll have to check.
Tfish - 1. My antenna hits the ceiling of my parking garage as well. Tall truck/short garage. Not much you can do.
2. I agree with you that a gas tank that was 5 gallons bigger would be great. I'd like a range in excess of 400 miles.
3. I haven't noticed a bass problem with my stereo so I can't help you here. I have the standard stereo that comes with the SR5. Do you as well?
4. I have not noticed the two clicks when putting the truck into drive. I'll pay more attention to see if I hear it.
5. My mileage is around 16/17 MPG. I was told that during the break-in period (the first 1,000) you are not supposed to exceed 55mph. I generally drive around 75 on the highway. I believe the MPG generally improves some as a vehicle is broken in.
6. I could be classified as a raging idiot myself. I got the dealer to drop the price only $600 below MSRP. This is the first time in my life that I ever approached MSRP and that was very difficult for me. I was seriously considering waiting 6 to 9 moths to see if the prices would decline further, but I really needed a new vehicle going into this winter as my former vehicle was 11 years old and needed a ton of work.
Thansk for the insight.
as far as resale goes, i am an inexperienced car buyer, and never bought a new, have leased though. which would be more important, the % of value held (which i believe toyota will kill Chev on anyway) or the $ difference.
i am buying, and will only keep probably 2 years. i would think the $ difference would thus be more important, as it indicates depreciation you "paid" for.
now, what about the color?
Jack
Bromhal: when you talk leases, much of the same applies. MSRP is factored into the lease formula. So is the actual, negotiated selling price. And so is residual value. The residual, I believe, between the Sub and Sequ are pretty similar. You also pay sales tax on every lease payment.
Assuming everything else is equal (residual, money factor), since MSRP and actual selling price are less for the Sub than the Sequ, you should end up with signficantly lower monthly payments (at least $100/month lower I'd guess).
As a leasor, why are you so concerned with resale values?