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That's where the "goodness" starts and ends, unfortunately. It's been a service and reliability nightmare. It's back in the service bay now, going on two weeks. That's on top of another two week stint in service a couple of months ago.
To be fair, there's another Edmunds poster here that has the CTS V-Sport (twin turbo V6), which has been flawless for him.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Still not worth it AFAIC.
"A very scary sedan, but only if you happen to be employed by Mercedes-AMG, BMW’s M division, or Audi’s Quattro GmbH."
Has anyone watched a full season of baseball...? 162 games .. Same amount of time it takes a caddy dealer to sell ONE ATS car. Wow - no wonder people getting deals on those and other caddy sedans... Wonder after One year and a few Miles prob could get a jacked out ATS in the 20's and a cts v sport in high 30's .. Could that be possible?
My take subi a great car for money for sure but it's not an Audi - open the door of a wrx vs an a4 - then close them- huge difference.... Money always matters but not same class
V sport Premiums are in the mid 40s still, which means high 40s retail. Knock off about $5k for a non-premium model.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Another long-time BMW owner neighbor, had ONE bad experience with his BMW -- the bun warmers caught on fire. Yeah, I know that is a big "bad" experience. So, he gets a new CTS. It has been, no lie, at the dealership more than in his driveway.
The thing is, the loaner -- for a time -- was an ATS. He finally said he wanted like-for-like and he now, at least, is driving a loaner CTS. Funny, he has had the loaner so long he washes it and takes IT IN FOR SERVICE.
Odds are he'll be back with another BMW as soon as possible (unless I can convince him to at least TEST DRIVE an A6 3.0T Prestige w/sport pkg!)
I'm working on it.
I don't know about you, but I do wish there was SOMETHING in between an A4 and and A6 or a 3 series and a 5 series. No, no, an A5 or 4 series won't do. The reason I want something that is really in-between is I just want something a little bit bigger (and this is a contradiction -- I know -- I've flip flopped on this more than twice).
I was loaned an A6 3.0T with a sport package. I liked it -- but, even with the sport package it didn't seem to be quite as nimble as I had mis-remembered it would be. Then today, 4 of us from my office went to lunch together -- well the two folks in the back seat of the S4 were "this close" to having enough knee room -- another inch back seat space would have been fine -- two inches ample.
I keep holding out hope that the new A4/S4 coming out next year will grow slightly in all directions -- but meantime, the gap between the A4 and A6 is large enough, I think, for there to be something that would fit in between; maybe an A5, gulp, sedan? Or a junior A7.
BTW, drove an S6 again -- love the power, love everything about it, except it is too big (well it would be most of the time) and it gives off so very few "S" cues from behind the wheel, it is somewhat disappointing. It performs great -- has gobs of go and stopping power, and it does have an "S" suspension from a capability perspective -- but the car is a cocoon. Usually a good thing, but when you pay that much, it would be nice if it had a bit of GRRR to be found. :@
I'm still lookin' for the tweener . . . plain and simple.
550 compares to the V sport
535 compares to the non-turbo CTS 3.6
528 compares to the CTS 2.0T
The 550 has a little more peak power, but it is 300 lbs heavier, which is why the vsport outperforms it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The 3-series GT sort of offers what you speak of, with loads of rear seat legroom on that longer 3-series platform. Whether you like the looks of the vehicle is a different matter.
I'm sure the new A4 next year will offer some sort of increase in size - maybe that will be a sweetspot for you. I am finding myself quite fond of the size of the current S4 - from a driving perspective, I liken it to the 335 (E90) I had a little while ago, and compared to that, the Audi adds just enough extra room to make it feel a little less "compact."
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
I have a couple thousand miles on my Continental DWS 06 UHP A/S tires.
While very good from mile one and better after mile 150, now at a couple grand miles on the road, I can offer this:
These tires are really UHP tires, they do not, from my perspective here in SW Ohio, need to apologize or explain why they are a compromise shoe. I can think of no attribute of this tire that makes me long for a MAX Perf (summer only) tire instead. I do not track my car. I do not take my car off normal highways, roads and streets. I generally enjoy taking corners and curves as aggressively as possible (given traffic and other safety considerations, of course). When conditions and traffic (and the long arm of the law) permits, I have been known to exceed 100MPH (usually on Interstates where traffic is thin and widely spaced).
I like a tire to be quiet. I do not want ANY tread noise. Not gonna tolerate it.
The handling, braking, "quietness", comfort and anything you can think of that describes performance of these tires is (are) exemplary. While not cheap, the tires will not require you to take out a second mortgage, and they should last some 40,000+ miles and still remind you they are (mostly) still UHP tires.
Unless you have no need for cold weather or "light-snow" traction, these tires should be given a good look-see and test drive (if possible). I don't want to make this too dramatic, but I cannot think of any tire that I have ever had that exceeds the performance of the DWS 06 Continental Extremes.
I sourced these from Tire Rack; and after they were mounted and road force balanced my S4 was given a 4-wheel alignment.
A+
July 2015 2014 %Change Volume ytd 2015 2014 %Change Volume
ATS 1,588 2,582 -38.5 14,095 17,492 -19.4
CTS 1,515 2,039 -25.7 11,204 18,047 -37.9
Same old GM....separated or not, the virus continues.
Someone posted how Lexus was successful and then raised prices in line after gaining notoriety. Caddy should pull a Lexus/Korea Twin pricing strategy but they will not. Instead, boldly following Buick!
Pretty soon, the commercials will say "That's not a Caddy!"
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Moving to right-to-work states is a start, but so long as Michigan remains a factor in automobile manufacturing, there will be thousands of dollars on top of every car produced to cover the pensions and other UAW overhead.
Detroit is a monument to the union movement and corrupt politicians (yeah, I know, it's redundant).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They can spend the money languishing in inventory or price 'em right to get 'em on the roads.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
What drew me to the CTS were the steep discounts, too.....along with the fact that I thought the CTS drove better than a 5 Series, and certainly looked better. Have they priced themselves out of the market? I don't know.
But, at this price range (or any price range, for that matter), people expect a level of service that reflects the price and status of the car. That's where Cadillac really falls down. They may have put a nice product out there, but they can not pretend like customer service is an after thought (as they have with mine, which has spent it's 30th day in the dealer's shop as of today). Further, either they can't, or won't fix it. I think it's a combination of the two. They are trained to read a computer read out of a fix, and that's it. If it doesn't show a code, they view it as "operating as normal".
BMW, Jag, Lexus, Mercedes, Acura, Infiniti, etc operate on a level several levels above that type of service.
I love your car, I really do. My Cadillac ownership experiences have been a nightmare, though.
Those experiences, along with pricing, are what's caused volumes to drop dramatically. They have to fix both simultaneously, and quickly, if they want to survive.
I think they are simply unable to change, first because they think they don't need to (if they did, they'd never put those crazy CTS prices and also priced ATS more in line with Acura/Volvo products, not Benz/BMW). Second, even if they saw a need for change, they are locked into the dealership network that is three times as large as it should be, considering current sales volumes. I'm sure those franchise contracts don't let them walk away at will, there are steep penalties, plus political fallout (imagine those tearful articles of lost jobs in a small town Cadillac dealer).
In essence, what they need to do, they can't and they won't. It's just going to be slow dying, probably very slow (they still sell good deal of Escalades), interrupted by some pretend moves and couple of short resurgences (once in a while they'll have a good month, or quarter), which will only postpone it. As before, a belief in a new ad campaign fixing all their ills will be magical.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm not saying you are wrong, necessarily. Just that there are, effectively, 2 classes of luxo cars (IMHO), and Caddy fits in the typically more expensive of those. However, they might find themselves better off cutting prices across the board, let's say $5k, rather than discounting the damned things $10k after they've been sitting around all year. They are already slightly cheaper than the Germans, just not enough, apparently.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Include all maintenance, of course and improve the dealership experience to Premium Car (European and Japanese) expectations.
Then, assuming all of the above (especially the goodness of the product) comes to pass, THEN allow the sub-venting to erode. As the post above says -- this will be about a 10 year exercise.
I must say, after watching Audi and UNINTENDED acceleration etc, 10 years would be a bargain, if Cadillac could pull it off in that period of time.
At some point in time, however, the product/brand differentiation has to shift from low price to a specific brand identity based on "something you're known for" or perhaps several somethings that you're known for.
I know of no one that is a animated and passionate about any Cadillac in the same way many Audi and BMW "fans" have passion. When I grew up in the 60's, you had your Chevy folks and your Ford folks -- and you had some (but a lower number than in the Chevy and Ford camps) who were, hmm, "MoPar" folks (beep beep).
I've been to Audi and BMW factory sponsored driving schools -- and the faithful who attend are meat eaters, red -- as in barely cooked -- meat eaters.
Checking out AudiWorld.com for instance you'll find a lot of passion I would assume other brands know just can't be bought. From my perspective, only BMW and Audi have both the breadth and depth of passionate fans -- Cadillac? Well, not so much.
We need Cadillac to not just survive, we need them to grow and prosper.
good lease deals is certainly a good idea.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
a. Killer product, killer service/experience, high price, low volume, niche product, build it up from there; translation - crash in sales, close 75 percent of dealerships, consolidate production, long and painful process, but can be successful, if executed properly. You make lots of money on every unit sold, but don't expect to be on the best seller list. but Call it "Jaguar option"
b. Killer product, killer service/experience, undercut price - low profits, build brand equity, then start slowly raising it. GM has neither. Requires deep pockets, lots of patience. Call it "Lexus option". Patience has never been a virtue of American corporations (especially those publicly traded on Wall Street). Add of course additional issues with memories of bailout, it probably doesn't have the money, either.
So Cadillac chose option c: pretend you can get higher prices on somewhat (arguably a lot) improved product without changing any other aspect of your business.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Great idea - one problem residual - they can't
Don't blame Wall Street for gM problems - TM, HMC and others trade on the big board. I would blame the unions over investors any day.
See: Buick and Caddy sales. GM remains a truck company.
Agree Sween. Investors want their investment to grow. That's it. That's all they want.
What bothers me, GM had a clean slate. Debt wiped out. Had an excuse to wipe out whole brands and dealers with little in the way of repurcussions (Oldsmobile, Hummer, Pontiac, etc). They could have become a great company, ONCE AGAIN! They had the opportunity to become good at whatever they chose.
At least in Cadillac's case, they went right back to the same old GM with indifferent quality, buggy technology, subpar customer support, etc.
I rent a lot of cars. I've rented a lot of Chevy Cruz's. On the surface, it's a pretty competitive car. You drive it for a few days and understand one thing....."were the designers and engineers hamstrung by the accontants, again?".
I know a lot of times, even with my CTS, I ask myself..."did the builders, designers, engineers really think this through?" The answer is usually "NO"! It's like they got part of the way there, and just ran out of time, or ran out of money, or just stopped before what they were doing was fully baked.
circle...you're right. They have become a truck company. Nothing wrong with that. Stick with what you do best. But, to keep trying to convince everyone else they are still a car company...well, that's proved a whole lot more difficult.
In essence, the process was not painful enough. Bankruptcy is supposed to be painful, as it wipes out those with weak interest (like shareholders, employees) and damages those with stronger interest (debt holders, government). It's an exchange - bondholders stop the imminent execution of the debt and in exchange they receive equity in reorganized company. All of that is overseen by a judge in a process that usually starts as adversarial and ends as cooperative. The plan for the reorganized company needs to be approved by a judge, but the bondholders have ample opportunity to give their input and voice their concerns. NONE OF THAT HAPPENED!!! Government came, wiped out those they deemed "unworthy" (and used media to vilify them in the process), gave rewards to those who were "worthy" (read supported their political cause) and then bullied judicial system to approve the tainted deal. A true disappointment was that the judges did not find enough courage to stop it. I can only guess why.
In this climate, how anybody can make real decisions? Those that can be even more difficult and more painful? There is no way. They changed a few things on the surface, a few more a bit deeper, but then everybody moved on, so the old habits can come back.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Let's stipulate that your observations are accurate. We then need to say that we can't un-ring the bell.
As a practical matter, while your comments would still be accurate they would probably not be made or even too much cared about if what emerged was a "great" car from a great car company (isolating Cadillac here).
I went to a friend's birthday party over the weekend -- of course after the dinner, some of the typical male/female behavior emerged with the two genders gathered in two groups catching up and being social. One of the well-wishers apparently was well off enough to have had several Ferrari's and he was remarking how he had never had any car have a $10,000 bill for what he would classify as routine mntce (a new clutch for a manual transmission Ferrari). His beloved Italian had just cost him this much -- ouch!
The conversation about cars was "on." In the parking-lot population of a couple of dozen premium cars (from Europe and Asia) there was a lone Cadillac CTS coupe. We all agreed the car was handsome -- the owner added his own comments suggesting that he agreed the car was beautiful to behold but that it had been a lot of trouble and that his [few] Cadillac owning friends had not one satisfied member amongst them.
I'm not sure what all of the "big" problems were, but problems seemed to plague just about every system a car has, according to him. The birthday boy (age 60) has a Mercedes V8 coupe (the $125,000 version whatever/whenever that is) and a Sonota with 120K miles on it. He wants a Porsche -- don't know what one -- but he says he can't beat the Sonota for its 100% reliability (and, at 120K miles, I would expect he would add durability, too), so he drives it to the office and saves the Merc for weekends. He also has one of those giant Yukon XL SUV's and a couple of Harley's.
Were I a Cadillac employee or affiliated in any way with Cadillac, this would have been a cringe-worthy event, with folks saying mostly positive things about everything but Cadillac's cars; and the things being said about Cadillac were enough to make someone in the market, draw a line through the brand altogether -- with the possible exception of the Escalade.
One couple drove their new Mercedes GLA crossover -- which I was able to see up close and personal, interior included. Very nice looking car -- especially from the outside. Interior fit and finish seemed nice, but man the thing was really small inside -- smaller, I think, than an Audi Q3. I don't know how much actual utility it had, how many groceries it could carry, but I do think it is one of Mercedes best looking products in years.
My take away from the whole evening -- pertaining to cars -- was that Cadillac is not in a particularly good place right now with respect to what "the people" (the market) are saying. Here [Edmund's] we've got folks saying "are you kidding" with respect to the price vs the competition and you have the bourgeoisie saying the cars are, well, pretty much crap with respect to reliability.
Best of both worlds?! Yikes.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If, on the other hand, your new gem needs to have the ham-handed dealer "technicians" bless it with their skills, you are well and truly screwed. It's a crap shoot. Hopefully you get a good one. Maybe you don't. The odds are better with some brands than others.
I've driven several vehicles for well over 100K miles and have accumulated over 1.4 million miles overall. As in going to hospital, the way to success is to keep out of the shop. Most of mine have benefitted from the manufacturer's quality system, not the dealer's. YMMV
Sometimes that's not possible.
Yes, I know, those of you who lease and/or change cars before the tires wear out are in a different cohort. Party on.
Looking below I'm scared for us companies
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I mentioned as part of one of my rants/posts that when I grew up in rural Ohio in the 60's, there were Chevy "guys" and Ford "guys" and even some Chryco (aka mopar) "guys."
The passion of the Chevy folks was the relentless kidding of the Fix Or Repair Daily crowd and of course the other way around (General Mess of Crap, as I recall). The Buick car company had seriously powerful cars -- my buddy drove a Buick Special to high school every day (and this was a full-sized V8 packin' hot rod -- don't let's it mass confuse you, you face off with the Special, you see tail lights.) Of course there were Goats and Stangs and my favorite (Beep Beep) Plymouth road runners that, in a straight line, were scary good and ready to smoke the rear tires, or actually SHRED the rear tires.
My cousin had an Impala SS (a two-door affair with a HUGE butt but also gobs of tire smokin' power) with a rear deck speaker WITH REVERB! Whew, I'm all verklempt.
The faithful high schoolers became faithful, loyal customers of their chosen brands -- my parents first had Hudson Hornets, then, with the demise of Twin H power (dual carbs), dad moved to Plymouth, then Chrysler -- I recall when I was in college he got a Cordoba, with fine Corinthian leather and the fake leather half roof.
The point is, my uncles were loyal to their brands -- my Augusta, GA uncle always had Pontiacs, his two brothers, one of them my dad had Chryco cars -- my uncle had a Plymouth Sport Fury, Plymouth's answer to the Chevy Impala Super Sport.
I mean these folks, then, wouldn't be budged from the brand.
What the heck happened?
Now, before I go into the weeds too deeply, I must say my friends are mostly loyal to a brand. My BMW driving friends will probably never stray. My buddy who drives Acuras, just won't even bother shopping elsewhere.
So what happened -- one would think there would have been at least some vestige of brand loyalty and that ought to translate to Cadillac as well. Apparently not.
What I have found is "American" car dealers didn't get the memo that must've come out at the end of the 70's or the early 80's. I simply, personally, can't imagine putting up with the crap these hold over dealers "Fast Eddy's" or "Juicy Lucy's" and their ilk deal.
Is it a matter of the dealerships? Is it a matter of . . . what? You'd think if you were a dealer facing a declining market, that you would "go undercover" and see how the most successful dealerships treat their "clients" and flat out imitate that behavior.
Sure, you may have to kiss a lot of frogs, but eventually you're going to learn what the attraction is -- at least at the Premium and Lux brands -- a Cadillac dealer with even one Fast Eddy or Juicy Lucy on the payroll isn't going to cut it.
Of course, this doesn't wipe out all of the sins of an iffy product, but maybe it would help.
Man, if I were Audi's former, now Cadillac's top US Exec, I would be calling in every favor I could to, as Young Frankenstein once said "Get me the hell outta here -- don't you recognize a joke?"