U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

US automakers are on a glue-sniffin' high right now...they'd best be careful.

stever · December 2015

You nailed it I think.

"With the auto markets in the BRICs and the developing countries sputtering, peak cars is clearly behind us as this cyclical business is turning into a new down-cycle."

Volkswagen Expected To Remain 2nd Ranked In 2015 (Forbes)

circlew · December 2015

GM offers $595M to settle ignition switch claims

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/12/10/gm-ignition-switch-payouts/77095290/

uplanderguy · December 2015

When you have higher labor rates and overhead, you don't have as much cash to throw around

I think that statement cannot be logically argued (against).

uplanderguy · December 2015

Still on my original batteries on my '08 and '09 Cobalts, amazingly. I think I'm pushing my luck. 95K miles on my '08.

I am surprised to read, above, that in fully 20% of the death cases involving the Cobalt ignition switches, speed limits were greatly being exceeded, alcohol or drugs were involved, drivers fell asleep, and/or seatbelts weren't being used. Of course this does not excuse the poor switch design, but sheesh, all these things seem so incredibly basic to me when driving, but overall I'm a cautious, conservative guy.

suydam · December 2015

That means in 80% they were not. Really inexcusable.

uplanderguy · December 2015

Terrible. But surely I'm not the only reader to express surprise at those numbers I mentioned. This is the first I've read of them.

henryn · December 2015

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/15/autos/kelley-blue-book-best-car-resale-value-2016/index.html

The experts at Kelley Blue Book have named the 2016 cars that will best hold their value.

Why does resale value matter? If you buy a new car, your shiny ride starts shedding value as soon as it leaves the dealership.

That's bad news if you plan to resell it or trade it it down the road.

KBB predicts the average 2016 vehicle will retain only 35% of its original value after five years. But some models hold on to their value longer than others.

Subaru and Lexus, perennial winners, were once again designated the best brand and best luxury brand.

As for specific models, the Chevrolet Camaro, Jeep Wrangler and Subaru Forester were all in the top 10.

Some of their "guesses" I agree with, others not at all.

For best resale value in a mid-sized pickup, they picked the Toyota Tacoma. And I'll buy that.

But for full sized pickup, they chose the Toyota Tundra. And that is very, extremely unlikely. Very.

berri · December 2015

Even if you plan on holding on to the car for a long time, an unexpected accident can still cause resale value to affect you when the car is totaled.

stever · December 2015

Best Year Ever for Auto Industry (prnewswire.com)

jpp75 · December 2015

From TTAC and Goodcarbadcar.net:

U.S. sales of the Cadillac CTS were chopped in half last month. November 2015 sales of the CTS fell 49.96 percent, from 2,446 in November 2014 to just 1,224 units last month, a new low for the new CTS. Not since December of last year has Cadillac sold more than 2,000 CTSs in a single month; not since October of last year have more than 3,000 CTSs been sold in a single month.

The CTS gets great reviews but it's sales numbers keep tanking. The reviews seem positive, but it seems the Cadillac brand is too tainted to be successful.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

As we predicted I might add: That Cadillac would not chalk up big numbers again until every person who owned one in the 1980s and 90s has died and can no longer offer testimony. It's not fair, but Cadillac dug this ditch and will have to dig their way out, just like Audi and Hyundai.

Ironically, Cadillac might need to go "upscale" with a new brand name, like Toyota-Lexus, IMO. The old name just doesn't have it anymore it seems.

circlew · December 2015

First the Good:

DETROIT -- On paper, the hulking Escalade SUV represents everything that Cadillac wants to leave behind about its brand image. It shares underpinnings with Chevys and GMCs. It's not sold in any real volume overseas. Its blinged-out, body-on-frame ride offers anything but nimble performance.

And yet, it's the one vehicle in the showroom that has what Cadillac executives desire most: the brand-name cachet to command top dollar, often from import-leaning customers who might not otherwise set foot in a Cadillac dealership.

Last month, buyers plunked down $85,000 on average for the ESV long wheelbase, 33 grand more than on Cadillac's next-closest nameplate, the CTS.

The Escalade "is the one car we have that import buyers won't even bat an eye to buy," said Keith Harvey, executive manager of Gold Coast Cadillac in Oakhurst, N.J. "They don't have to worry what people will think when they pull up to the country club. It's an Escalade."

Now the rest:

But the fact that Cadillac's most successful vehicle is also furthest from the brand's core performance mission is a paradox that makes Cadillac executives uneasy. While recently planning a new Escalade advertising campaign, marketing chief Uwe Ellinghaus worried that spotlighting the girthy SUV might undermine all the work that Cadillac has done over the past few years to burnish its performance credentials.

"As much as I want to feature that it is a great-looking and -driving car, and it's a cool Cadillac and we're proud of having it, ... we must avoid the impression that this sets the direction for Cadillac as the brand," Ellinghaus said in a recent interview.

So where does Cadillac take Escalade from here? How can it leverage the unlikeliest of halo vehicles to lift the rest of the lineup?

Undecided for now, executives are treading carefully.

INHO, thats what happened with the rest of GM. Trucks first, cars, not so much.

circlew · December 2015

Most valuable brands within the automotive sector worldwide as of May 2015, by brand value (in billion U.S. dollars)

berri · December 2015

Cadillac probably is pricing too high. They should look at the history of the Asians and come in aggressively until the brand catches on in the market again. Meanwhile, this is probably not good news for Lincoln.

uplanderguy · December 2015

My guess is that Volkswagen is notably further down that list now.

What gets me about VW, is unlike other manufacturers that scurry after-the-fact to attempt to do damage-control after a decision is shown to be bad, there was complicity there at the very beginning to deceive...the very beginning. Being an auditor all my adult life, one thing I've learned is bad behavior and decisions like that will ALWAYS be revealed.

henryn · December 2015

circlew said:
First the Good:

DETROIT -- On paper, the hulking Escalade SUV represents everything that Cadillac wants to leave behind about its brand image. It shares underpinnings with Chevys and GMCs. It's not sold in any real volume overseas. Its blinged-out, body-on-frame ride offers anything but nimble performance.

And yet, it's the one vehicle in the showroom that has what Cadillac executives desire most: the brand-name cachet to command top dollar, often from import-leaning customers who might not otherwise set foot in a Cadillac dealership.

Last month, buyers plunked down $85,000 on average for the ESV long wheelbase, 33 grand more than on Cadillac's next-closest nameplate, the CTS.

The Escalade "is the one car we have that import buyers won't even bat an eye to buy," said Keith Harvey, executive manager of Gold Coast Cadillac in Oakhurst, N.J. "They don't have to worry what people will think when they pull up to the country club. It's an Escalade."

Now the rest:

But the fact that Cadillac's most successful vehicle is also furthest from the brand's core performance mission is a paradox that makes Cadillac executives uneasy. While recently planning a new Escalade advertising campaign, marketing chief Uwe Ellinghaus worried that spotlighting the girthy SUV might undermine all the work that Cadillac has done over the past few years to burnish its performance credentials.

"As much as I want to feature that it is a great-looking and -driving car, and it's a cool Cadillac and we're proud of having it, ... we must avoid the impression that this sets the direction for Cadillac as the brand," Ellinghaus said in a recent interview.

So where does Cadillac take Escalade from here? How can it leverage the unlikeliest of halo vehicles to lift the rest of the lineup?

Undecided for now, executives are treading carefully.

INHO, thats what happened with the rest of GM. Trucks first, cars, not so much.

A few months back, I posted a link to an article where the author was speculating that GM was going to abandon the car market completely, and just sell trucks / SUVs.

andres3 · December 2015

uplanderguy said:
Still on my original batteries on my '08 and '09 Cobalts, amazingly. I think I'm pushing my luck. 95K miles on my '08.

I am surprised to read, above, that in fully 20% of the death cases involving the Cobalt ignition switches, speed limits were greatly being exceeded, alcohol or drugs were involved, drivers fell asleep, and/or seatbelts weren't being used. Of course this does not excuse the poor switch design, but sheesh, all these things seem so incredibly basic to me when driving, but overall I'm a cautious, conservative guy.

20% is a healthy number, but I'm not that surprised. I'd be interested to know how many of the 20% had "speeding" as the sole reason to include it in the "20%" group, since as you know, I've already proven that speeding and danger or accidents are entirely unrelated. Going too fast for conditions; now that's another story.

Or maybe it is safe to speed in any make that knows (and executes) how to make a proper ignition switch.

andres3 · December 2015

berri said:
Even if you plan on holding on to the car for a long time, an unexpected accident can still cause resale value to affect you when the car is totaled.

I think domestic vehicles that have plummeting resale value are the sole reason for the creation of the insane "gap insurance" product. That, and perhaps the notion that negative equity or zero down is a good idea (absent 0.0% loan rate).

andres3 · December 2015

uplanderguy said:
My guess is that Volkswagen is notably further down that list now.

What gets me about VW, is unlike other manufacturers that scurry after-the-fact to attempt to do damage-control after a decision is shown to be bad, there was complicity there at the very beginning to deceive...the very beginning. Being an auditor all my adult life, one thing I've learned is bad behavior and decisions like that will ALWAYS be revealed.

My guess is the engineers involved in the fraud probably were smart enough to know what you've said above. That it would eventually be found out, but perhaps they knew it would take years, even almost a decade. Maybe these engineers were all old fogies within 5 years of retirement. The thought process being "well, I won't have to deal with the repercussion; I'll be retired."

andres3 · December 2015

jpp5862 said:
From TTAC and Goodcarbadcar.net:

U.S. sales of the Cadillac CTS were chopped in half last month. November 2015 sales of the CTS fell 49.96 percent, from 2,446 in November 2014 to just 1,224 units last month, a new low for the new CTS. Not since December of last year has Cadillac sold more than 2,000 CTSs in a single month; not since October of last year have more than 3,000 CTSs been sold in a single month.

The CTS gets great reviews but it's sales numbers keep tanking. The reviews seem positive, but it seems the Cadillac brand is too tainted to be successful.

That, and maybe @graphicguy and his recent CTS experience isn't as isolated as some would like to believe.

andres3 · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
As we predicted I might add: That Cadillac would not chalk up big numbers again until every person who owned one in the 1980s and 90s has died and can no longer offer testimony. It's not fair, but Cadillac dug this ditch and will have to dig their way out, just like Audi and Hyundai.

Ironically, Cadillac might need to go "upscale" with a new brand name, like Toyota-Lexus, IMO. The old name just doesn't have it anymore it seems.

Yes, I've never been shown any reason to believe that higher dollar fancy "Chrysler's" would be any more reliable or durable than lower dollar "Dodge." I attributed the lack of quality to be the corporate wide brand culture, no matter which brand it was under the corporate umbrella (and if they merged or purchased anyone; that brand would be infected too). I imagine Cadillac is having a hard time winning over former Chevy, Buick, and GMC owners that would "move up the brand."

tlong · December 2015

uplanderguy said:
My guess is that Volkswagen is notably further down that list now.

What gets me about VW, is unlike other manufacturers that scurry after-the-fact to attempt to do damage-control after a decision is shown to be bad, there was complicity there at the very beginning to deceive...the very beginning. Being an auditor all my adult life, one thing I've learned is bad behavior and decisions like that will ALWAYS be revealed.

Agreed. VW went from my darling brand in my early driving years, to still being my admired brand even when I'd moved on (my biggest issue was poor dealer service), to being not impressive (the last 10 years of "Americanization" of the cars), to this deception.

VW is now dead to me.

andres3 · December 2015

tlong said:

uplanderguy said:
My guess is that Volkswagen is notably further down that list now.

What gets me about VW, is unlike other manufacturers that scurry after-the-fact to attempt to do damage-control after a decision is shown to be bad, there was complicity there at the very beginning to deceive...the very beginning. Being an auditor all my adult life, one thing I've learned is bad behavior and decisions like that will ALWAYS be revealed.
Agreed. VW went from my darling brand in my early driving years, to still being my admired brand even when I'd moved on (my biggest issue was poor dealer service), to being not impressive (the last 10 years of "Americanization" of the cars), to this deception.

VW is now dead to me.

I like VW; even still. The wife's TDI Sportwagen Golf is a great car and the travel long trip mileage was indeed impressive and refreshing.

However, I will say besides the GTI, Golf R, and Golf Sportwagen, the other models don't do anything for me. They are "Americanized." I think the Golf chassis is one exception and still very German. Though many are made in Mexico now, the Golf R is still made in good old Germany.

stever · December 2015

Aw, it's just normal corporate behavior and if we didn't have corporations, it'd just be normal human behavior.

I want a Toyota but I hate that they have mandatory binding arbitration, not to mention lingering doubts about SUA. I want a Kia and a Hyundai, but do I really trust their mpg claims after they intentionally mislead the public? I want an Encore - but, well, those ignition switch deaths pretty much say it all.

Push comes to shove, people are still going to buy what they think fits their situation the best, and they'll rationalize the bad behavior of the manufacturer or dealer.

If VW came out with that compact microbus concept, I'd sure go take a test drive.

berri · December 2015

I don't think Audi is getting hit all that hard by all of this and many of their products are just gussied up VW's.

suydam · December 2015

Wasn't the Encore built after the ignition switch recall? I don't remember it being listed for any year. I will say that ingress and egress are very nice in the Encore.

stever · December 2015

It's more of a reputation thing and it's hard to find any brand without some misconduct in their past.

andres3 · December 2015

stever said:
It's more of a reputation thing and it's hard to find any brand without some misconduct in their past.

Agreed, some former customers would consider previous unreliable vehicles to be misconduct on the part of the designers, engineers, and assembly workers that had anything to do with the creation of said unreliable vehicle.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

I think a line can be drawn between incompetence and actual malicious intent, however.

andres3 · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think a line can be drawn between incompetence and actual malicious intent, however.

Planned obsolescence "engineering" is malicious intent in my book. Sure, some of it is straight incompetence, but some of it was deliberate in order to save a few pennies here and there.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

As long as they offer, and honor, the warranty, I don't see where planned obsolescence matters at all--if say Ford backs up their cars for 5 years, then you should realize that that's all the confidence they have in their product, and buy accordingly.

If the manufacturer thinks that things will only last 5 years, why should you expect any more out of it?

andres3 · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
As long as they offer, and honor, the warranty, I don't see where planned obsolescence matters at all--if say Ford backs up their cars for 5 years, then you should realize that that's all the confidence they have in their product, and buy accordingly.

If the manufacturer thinks that things will only last 5 years, why should you expect any more out of it?

Because my Parents and older brother's Toyota's offered a far more durable and reliable experience far beyond 5 years starting in the 80's. I knew from a young age there was much "better" out there.

berri · December 2015

I'm not sure that the costs of development, gov regs and manufacturing support an approach of planned obsolescence these days. Most of the changes I'm seeing in products appear more the result of reacting to either technology changes, the competition or new gov requirements.

tlong · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think a line can be drawn between incompetence and actual malicious intent, however.

That's why the VW thing is so bad. GM ignition switches=incompetence; VW emissions defeat=malicious intent

tlong · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
As long as they offer, and honor, the warranty, I don't see where planned obsolescence matters at all--if say Ford backs up their cars for 5 years, then you should realize that that's all the confidence they have in their product, and buy accordingly.

If the manufacturer thinks that things will only last 5 years, why should you expect any more out of it?

Well, even warranty repairs mean you still have a failure and you still have to take it in to get fixed. Much better to have a reliable vehicle that doesn't need all that work, free or not.

andres3 · December 2015

tlong said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think a line can be drawn between incompetence and actual malicious intent, however.
That's why the VW thing is so bad. GM ignition switches=incompetence; VW emissions defeat=malicious intent

Not fixing ignition switches you know are dangerous turns into malicious intent by inaction for years and years.

tlong · December 2015

andres3 said:

tlong said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think a line can be drawn between incompetence and actual malicious intent, however.
That's why the VW thing is so bad. GM ignition switches=incompetence; VW emissions defeat=malicious intent
Not fixing ignition switches you know are dangerous turns into malicious intent by inaction for years and years.

Yes, I could see that, but I think it was *probably* more total incompetence and the too-complex political system in GM. Was there any evidence that somebody said "people are dying, but this is too much money to fix" or something like that? Or was it just an internal breakdown of negligence? I had thought it was the latter.

circlew · December 2015

Greed and incompetence led to malicious intent at GM. Over competence and greed at VW.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

Incompetence in the legal arena usually carries a much smaller penalty than malicious intent. One is more about "civil" damages, the other about prison time.

Attempting to defeat emissions laws is, in my book, similar to attempting to defeat health laws.

andres3 · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Incompetence in the legal arena usually carries a much smaller penalty than malicious intent. One is more about "civil" damages, the other about prison time.

Attempting to defeat emissions laws is, in my book, similar to attempting to defeat health laws.

Health laws such as it's bad to drink liquor if your 18-20 years old, but OK once your 21?

uplanderguy · December 2015

Had my Cobalt in for an oil change this morning and was surprised to see one '16 Malibu on their lot. I didn't think they were out already. It was a navy blue ("Blue Velvet") LT and stickered at just a tick over $26K.

Although I've complained about the everybody-has-to-have-the-sweeping-cut-rear-door look--which it does--I like it better than the '15 car. The domestic content is up to 65% from 62% (as noted on the '15 next to it), but the engine now is made in Mexico instead of the U.S. Final assembly is still in Kansas City. Mexican content--thanks NAFTA (sigh).

The car is noticeably longer and to my eyes looks wider than the '15 too. I think it's more handsome front and rear too, being Impala-like from the rear (which in itself is 2011-Sonata-like, one of the rare compliments I'll give Asian styling, LOL).

Too bad I'm still years away from a new car.

One kid in college paid for; another with 3 1/2 years to go.

Per the sticker, domestic parts content does not include final assembly, distribution, and non-parts costs.

suydam · December 2015

That's public policy, not a health law. A health law is something like requiring vaccinations to enter public schools.

andres3 · December 2015

uplanderguy said:
Had my Cobalt in for an oil change this morning and was surprised to see one '16 Malibu on their lot. I didn't think they were out already. It was a navy blue ("Blue Velvet") LT and stickered at just a tick over $26K.

Although I've complained about the everybody-has-to-have-the-sweeping-cut-rear-door look--which it does--I like it better than the '15 car. The domestic content is up to 65% from 62% (as noted on the '15 next to it), but the engine now is made in Mexico instead of the U.S. Final assembly is still in Kansas City. Mexican content--thanks NAFTA (sigh).

The car is noticeably longer and to my eyes looks wider than the '15 too. I think it's more handsome front and rear too, being Impala-like from the rear (which in itself is 2011-Sonata-like, one of the rare compliments I'll give Asian styling, LOL).

Too bad I'm still years away from a new car. One kid in college paid for; another with 3 1/2 years to go.

Per the sticker, domestic parts content does not include final assembly, distribution, and non-parts costs.

Do you know how domestic parts content is calculated? Is it weight related, or simply part number related. A big engine changing to foreign sourced outweighed by a few small trim pieces made in the USA to raise the percentage overall?

uplanderguy · December 2015

Sorry andres3, I do not know.

circlew · December 2015

Do you know how domestic parts content is calculated? Is it weight related, or simply part number related. A big engine changing to foreign sourced outweighed by a few small trim pieces made in the USA to raise the percentage overall?

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Act+(AALA)+Reports

stever · January 2016

"In the third quarter last year, Ferrari accounted for 2.6% of Fiat Chrysler’s total revenue, but 11% of adjusted operating profit."

So naturally Fiat sold it to raise cash to pump into Jeep and Alfa Romeo.

Fiat Shares Fall by Third After Ferrari Spinoff (WSJ - registration link)

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Did they sell the whole thing or just a percentage?

stever · January 2016

Sounds like it's an IPO kind of spinoff, with no ownership by Fiat. Sergio remains the CEO of Ferrari, for now at least. More details at AutoBlog.

tlong · January 2016

GM bets Americans will buy cars made in China

We've speculated about this for many years on these boards. While GM has had Chinese engines brought into the US (a first for any maker), now they are planning on going further. With all of the talk about "What is an American Car" and "I'm glad I'm buying a car made near me", what does this mean when our "most American of all" automakers is becoming (at least with some vehicles) the "most foreign of all"? Is the fact that "profits go to the US" enough?

Discuss...

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