Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

robr2 · December 2015

markcincinnati said:
Why would rear brakes be the first to go? Seems counter-intuitive.

I've been told by techs that since front brakes do most of the work, the OEM brake pads on the rear are thinner. The goal is so that all four wheels reach replacement at the same time. The 2005 Passat I just traded had the rears done at 60K and all four were due to be done when I traded at 135K. I never did the fronts in that time.

I also just changed the rears on the my 2011 Explorer at just about 60K as well.

henryn · December 2015

My 2008 Passat got new brakes on the rear at around 99k miles. The fronts were still good when I sold the car at around 105k.

circlew · December 2015

A while back we were discussing best engines....here's a new list from Wards 10 Best.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/12/wards-10-best-engines-2016-equal-parts-performance-parsimonious/

roadburner · December 2015

Interestingly, the B58 reverts back to a mechanical water pump. However, the timing chain/VANOS assembly is now located at the rear of the engine...

sweendogy · December 2015

I would also guess the rears would wear faster if you lived on a hill and used the parking break a lot - like my wife does. Maybe wrong on this but who knows - 30k miles and have to do rears hurts when you go to a Honda dealer. Glamor shot time

nyccarguy · December 2015

Nice shot!

stickguy · December 2015

read the review in one of this month's car magazines on the new A4. Sounded really nice. Interior though seemed pretty familiar, but I suspect the fancy new dashboard screen is cool.

breld · December 2015

With the increased hp on the 2.0t and the DSG trannie, the new A4 does seem very competitive.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

It's certainly getting some nice reviews.

flightnurse · December 2015

Interesting engine choices from Nissan errr Infiniti

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2016-infiniti-q50-official-photos-and-info-news

stickguy · December 2015

actually sounds like they addressed some of the key issues. I could be tempted by the 2.0t option!

roadburner · December 2015

My son brought his 2004 X3 2.5i home from college; it just turned over 182k miles. My wife has been letting him drive her E90 3er while he's home to keep excess miles off his truck. Funny thing; my wife and I both usually prefer light and nimble cars, yet we both like driving his sled more than her E90. I can't put my finger on why exactly- but there it is. Since he's had it at SC it has needed a new battery and a starter, but at that mileage I can't complain too much. The suspension is completely untouched; it's going to the dealer in a couple of days for an Oil Service so we will see if anything needs attention. Even if something does turn up I won't be that upset, as we bought it in 2005 and paid it off in 2007. It would take a lot of expensive repairs to equal eight years of lease or loan payments(over $46,000- based on the average U.S. monthly car payment of $483).

stickguy · December 2015

I did the nursing an old car along long distance once. Never again. Plus the thought of my daughter calling me to say she broke down along the side of the DC beltway is terrifying!

roadburner · December 2015

Haven't had to do any nursing as I see it; and aside froma bit of interior wear it looks and drives like a car with one-fourth the actual mileage.,

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

I think right around 80K, most cars are going to start to cost you money, or time, or both. At least potentially. Some people are luckier than others, or more conscientious, as the case may be. It REALLY helps when you own the car from new!

roadburner said:
Haven't had to do any nursing as I see it; and aside froma bit of interior wear it looks and drives like a car with one-fourth the actual mileage.,

m6user · December 2015

A lot of this is situational. If you have 5 vehicles there is always a spare if one if one or two aren't available. No long commutes or retired with time to spare. Most depend greatly on one car and don't have the time or want to hassle with repairs. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that keeping a car for the very long term is cheaper. However, money is not the only or even the main factor for many especially those that buy luxury cars.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

Sure it's cheaper because you have amortized the depreciation, and even $150 a month in repairs is 1/2 or 1/3rd a lease or car payment.

But, when buying new, it's worth considering a particular model's historical reliability record.

m6user · December 2015

Sure it is.....who wants to hassle with repairs whether it's covered by warranty or not. Number of recalls is also a factor. Sure it gets fixed for free but can be a hassle if not done during routine maintenence.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

And then there are the dreadful cases of the dealer being unable to fix the car, even under warranty, or it requiring numerous attempts.

tlong · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think right around 80K, most cars are going to start to cost you money, or time, or both. At least potentially. Some people are luckier than others, or more conscientious, as the case may be. It REALLY helps when you own the car from new!

roadburner said:
Haven't had to do any nursing as I see it; and aside froma bit of interior wear it looks and drives like a car with one-fourth the actual mileage.,

My experiences don't match that - I usually don't find significant repair costs until around 120K, My Acura TL (2005) is at 155K right now and I had my first significant repair at around 130K, which was $1300 for some suspension work (control arms, etc.). And that has been about it other than the routine stuff. I also had a Jetta go to 143K, an Accord go way over 100K with no issues, and a Mercury Villager with the first big repair around 170K.

andres3 · December 2015

Yes, I much rely on one car to do it all, and I can't have breakdowns. I don't have the time or money or patience. My S4 was fixed same day I took it in; the leaky windshield washer fluid tank was actually a hose that came off of the headlight washer system that attaches to the tank. Can I blame this on the body shop or Audi? I think 90% chance the body shop is to blame since the leak was by the front of the car, 10% chance Audi should have made the hoses with better clamps.

Fortunately, I'm able to drive without windshield washer fluid, and the tank must have a 1/3 or 1/4 reserve below the hose lines so it still worked, was just low soon after using it a few times (tripping a warning light).

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

Well that 80K marker doesn't mean something outright fails. It means it has become substandard. Many many people drive around quite contentedly with cars, that if subjected to inspection, could justify quite a few repairs. At 80K for instance, your car's struts still work fine, but they aren't anywhere as good as new, and a worn ball joint wouldn't exhibit any difference to the driver. Nor would mushy motor mounts, glazed fan belts, or cracked exhaust hangers.

m6user · December 2015

That 80k mark was probably correct up to about twenty years. Since the late 90s it seems that has stretched another 30k or so. Heck, back in 60s and 70s you started having major repairs by 70k and a car over 100k was worth next to nothing.

stickguy · December 2015

@tlong, sounds like my (now gone)2000 TL. Had some stuff around 140k (struts, tires, motor mount). Then nothing really for about 4 years up to 175k, then a few breakdowns in rapid succession, just before my son graduated (he had it at college). Rear window motor failed, coil packs died, alternator crapped out. He got good at calling AAA. Plus one HID got wonky. That was a painful year of supporting old car long distance! Thankfully never broke down in transit.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

Yeah, I would expect a new-ish car to still be in pretty good shape at 80K. But parts do wear. Maybe the glove box door is as good at 80K as it was when new but parts that go round and round and up and down have to show wear at 80K. And don't forget the psychological barrier of 99.9K miles and how that affects resale value. I think there is a mileage or number in people's heads as to when a car is ready for repairs. Not sure what that number is, but 99,999 sounds about right.

flightnurse · December 2015

I have a co-worker who has a first year new Gen camero with 145K miles on it and no major repairs on it. Of course I told him now that he spoke about it openly he will have problems now with it.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

I bet we could find some

graphicguy · December 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Yeah, I would expect a new-ish car to still be in pretty good shape at 80K. But parts do wear. Maybe the glove box door is as good at 80K as it was when new but parts that go round and round and up and down have to show wear at 80K. And don't forget the psychological barrier of 99.9K miles and how that affects resale value. I think there is a mileage or number in people's heads as to when a car is ready for repairs. Not sure what that number is, but 99,999 sounds about right.

Perhaps some of that comes from having to replace serpentine belts, timing belts, etc at or near the 100K mile mark?

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

Yes I think that's exactly right---usually 100K, or 90K, or maybe 105K, is a big service and many people skip out before having to do that. Also it's not unusual to need tires and brakes at that mileage, which are normal wear items. I mean, how many sellers would do ALL those things and then sell the car?

roadburner · December 2015

Well, at the 182,370 mile Oil Service my son's X3 also needed two serpentine belts as well as rear pads and rotors. Oh the horror!!!

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

Yeah, but not everyone with a miled up X3 has a knowledgeable dad to fix everything, nor do they have your good luck. Remember, risk assessment is based on an actuarial. If you just interviewed 100 year old men you'd never predict actual life expectancy.

roadburner · December 2015

I don't think it's good luck- it's conscientious and consistent maintenance.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2015

And that too! Of course, for that to really work it helps to buy the car new. I'm also conscientious but I've had to pay for the previous owner's neglect sometimes....or worse yet, for the factory's engineering gaffs.

roadburner · December 2015

Well, the X3 was practically new; it had 16,500 miles on it and was just over a year old. You are absolutely right about prior owners; they can either enhance the reliability or "poison the pond" as it were.

flightnurse · December 2015

roadburner said:
Well, the X3 was practically new; it had 16,500 miles on it and was just over a year old. You are absolutely right about prior owners; they can either enhance the reliability or "poison the pond" as it were.

This is why getting a CPO BMW or any other brand that offers free maintenance is usually a good bet, since the new owner doesn't pay for service and can be in and out of a service department in about 15 minutes.

Sandman6472 · December 2015

Am thinking that a CPO luxury level vehicle is the best way to buy one used since the company's have a certain check list of things that must be done besides an oil change and tire rotation. Personally, I'd have more confidence in purchasing a vehicle that has been CPO'd than one that hasn't and would be willing to pay a slight premium for it just knowing the odds are in my favor for a more pleasant ownership experience.
One thing about the folks who frequent these forums, we all seem to have a passion for our vehicles, that passion that makes us want to take better care of our vehicles and keep them in tip top shape. Our vehicles are more than an appliance to us, they are an extension of us silly as that may seem. Our ownership of them brings us great joy which leads us to take better are of them by cleaning them more often and doing he required maintenance. Humans take care of the things they value and vehicle maintenance is just part of the "fun" of ownership. I know I personally smile whenever I get into my Golf and it makes me happy when I get it cleaned up and waxed. It's that non tangible thing I've talked about in the past but a machine, our vehicles, is able to give us humans pleasure, crazy as that may seem. We folks in these forums understand this concept!

The Sandman

markcincinnati · December 2015

Normally, I would want to address the following quote, amplify it or perhaps even counter the point -- Sandman speaks the truth. Perhaps the intent was to update the Hawthorne effect. You decide. My experience is that if you are into it/them [cars] you will indeed take better care of them -- and be rewarded with reliability.

"One thing about the folks who frequent these forums, we all seem to have a passion for our vehicles, that passion that makes us want to take better care of our vehicles and keep them in tip top shape. Our vehicles are more than an appliance to us, they are an extension of us silly as that may seem. Our ownership of them brings us great joy which leads us to take better are of them by cleaning them more often and doing he required maintenance. Humans take care of the things they value and vehicle maintenance is just part of the "fun" of ownership. I know I personally smile whenever I get into my Golf and it makes me happy when I get it cleaned up and waxed. It's that non tangible thing I've talked about in the past but a machine, our vehicles, is able to give us humans pleasure, crazy as that may seem. We folks in these forums understand this concept!"

Couldn't agree more, Sandman.

roadburner · January 2016

In case anyone is interested, here is the most recent used oil analysis from my wife's X3(yes, she took it back and sent my son to SC in her old E90 328i- neither of us miss it at all):

Mr_Shiftright · January 2016

Yes, some people don't realize that fuel contamination is an engine killer! Coolant contamination is certainly a bearing-eater.

circlew · January 2016

That X-3 looks like it's running very well. Interesting to see this. I never performed an oil sample analysis.

sweendogy · January 2016

@sandman_6472 while not lux CPO related my wife bought a CPO Honda CR-V in 2010. Car had very low miles 15k, ex-l with nav and was Honda certified. I bought the car sight unseen 200 miles away and picked it up- we had it for a month and it mostly sat (less then 300 miles, so 100 miles minus the pickup) until we were planning a big east coast trip of 1200 so I decided to look under the hood and noticed the oil level was low- also noticed a leak- looked around one tire was a little low- started looking at structural stuff noticed some gaps larger then others on the front end- then found a piece in the engine bay -and googled the serial number which I found to be a lower piece of the bumper.( or older bumper) - took car on a Sunday to my local Honda dealer (huge chain) and had the service manager who also is a certified Honda tech and asked if this car should of been certified- and he pointed out 10 issues including major front end damage that would have disqualified this car from such CPO status - I was lucky he was willing to put this in writing and making my case with both Honda and the selling dealer easier in getting compensation. Net net - you don't always get a certified car- BUT if you go to a honest bigger dealer (and go lux) you have a better chance of getting that peach. I bot a 8 month old s4 2 years ago - non CPO- got a good deal and have had no issues(knock on wood) sorry about long post.

stickguy · January 2016

one good thing about the luxo brands is the nice long warranty. the dealer I have been keeping an eye on has had a number of 2 MY (even some 1 MY) used models, so we are talking 2-3 years elapsed max. So 1-2 years BtoB + another 2 years powertrain left on it. So while not certified, still plenty of coverage in case of any bugs it might have when you buy it.

roadburner · January 2016

A CPO car is only as good as the certifying dealer; I've bought 3 CPO cars from my local BMW dealer and they were all in excellent shape.

sweendogy · January 2016

@roadburner totally agree

Sandman6472 · January 2016

I plan to look at Audi, MB and BMW next time and go the CPO route to insure a vehicle that should last a good amount of time. Will pounce on our A3 if she decides to get something else though as her mileage will be pretty low in a few years. If not, leaning towards BMW to see what the fuss is about.
Sat in a new Civic and liked the ergonomics and all. Will be interesting to drive one and see how much it's improved since my 2006 LX. Besides the HR-V, nothing else in their lineup moves me in any way. Felt like I've done that already.

The Sandman

roadburner · January 2016

sandman_6472 said:
Will pounce on our A3 if she decides to get something else though as her mileage will be pretty low in a few years. If not, leaning towards BMW to see what the fuss is about.
The Sandman

IMNSHO, your only sure bet to get a newer BMW that actually drives-at least a little-like a traditional BMW is to find a Sport/M Sport 2 Series, 3 Series, or 4 Series.

nyccarguy · January 2016

I just got back from filling up my wife's Pilot to the tune of 14 mpg. At the gas station I saw a guy pull up in an A3. Black on Black. Caught my eye enough to come home & build one on the Audi website. 2.0T Quattro Premium (AWD, Pano Roof, 6 Speed STronic) with optional hot seats & sport suspension. Nice package for a $34,950 sticker price. 220 hp / 258 lb ft torque

stickguy · January 2016

you would probably like this one too if B on B is your thing. A bit more cushy.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2012-audi-a4-4dr_sedan_automatic_quattro_2_0t_premium_plus-used-14512858.html

though if you need more HP (and who doesn't?) another B on B AWD.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2013-infiniti-g37_sedan-4dr_x_awd-used-14481315.html

I am really thinking something along these lines, but gently used, is going to be my next ride.

nyccarguy · January 2016

@stickguy - that A4 is nice, but I think the 2013s & up are facelifted to modernize the look just a little bit more. I wouldn't touch an Audi without a 100K factory warranty. Which brings me to my next point, for less than the $34,950 sticker priced A3 I built I could head to Subaru and get a WRX Limited. I know it's not an Audi, but one thing I'm very happy with so far is Subaru's cost of ownership/maintenance. Plus I dig that functional hood scoop.

stickguy · January 2016

one thing I would worry about, knowing some of the bombed out roads you drive on, is how tiring the ride/noise would get commuting in the WRX. Seems like a much better "fun" car to me!

Maybe just because I am getting old, but I appreciate comfort these days too. Though I did come darned close to getting that Civic Si last summer... Now that was a screaming deal.

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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