Whenever I think of Studebakers with that swoop, the first ones to come to my mind are the '56-58 models (and '57-58 Packards).
I forgot about those. It's easy to forget the '57 had that feature I think, since the metal grille/trim wraps around right there.
The club magazine, probably twenty or more years ago, ran a feature article on the '56 sedans. At that time there was, I'm thinking, at least one or a couple guys who still had the ones they bought new, who wrote in. Anyway, more readers wrote in that those were the best cars they ever owned, than any other Stude model I can think of. I'm not a real big fan, generally. I could enjoy a '56 Commander two-door sedan or '57 Packard Country Sedan (station wagon).
In fact, my dealer friend, now that I think about it, told me he thought customers seemed happiest with their '56's and their '60 Larks (second model year).
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The '61 Dodge pickup always reminded me of a toy truck - one that was designed from the start as a toy, not based on a real vehicle. The front end just looked like something designed by someone who wasn't a car designer.
In the early 70s we had a country property and my dad picked up a '65 Chevy as a farm truck. It was pretty beat - the box had likely rotted off, so it had a homebuilt wooden stake bed - with some rust in the cab corners, but otherwise it seemed pretty solid. Pea green, 3 on the tree, no power anything, straight 6. I learned to drive around the property with it. It seemed big but of course it was positively tiny compared to today's pickups.
The engine burned a lot of oil so my brother, who was into cars and good at mechanical stuff, volunteered to replace valve seals, rings, etc. It wasn't registered or insured, so we decided to have him drive it to his house one night on the 20 miles of 2-lane that would get it there with us riding shotgun in Dad's car right behind it in case anything went wrong, since we weren't too confident it could make the trip. It did fine, but I remember being behind it in the dark with just headlight illumination and it was firing a steady stream of red-hot carbon bits (I assume) out of the tailpipe. Each time one hit the asphalt it looked like someone threw a lit cigarette out of the truck and burst onto the road with a shower of sparks.
Those early '60s Ford pickups look good, but I see they still have a straight front axle. I think Twin I-beam came along in '66? I was surprised last week to see pictures locally of a traffic accident here where a newish Ford 4wd pickup was t-boned at an intersection and knocked on its side. One picture showed the undercarriage as it laid there and the front end was still Twin I-beam, to my surprise. Maybe all 4wd trucks use something similar, but I just expected something a bit more sophisticated nowadays.
I've sometimes seen pickups take the worst end of a collision with cars, probably because unibody tends to be stronger than body on frame in an accident. Manufacturing profit margins on those pickups and SUV's are humongous.
It does have a nice, pleasing shape to it overall. One styling detail I always liked is when a car or truck has that crease that comes up over the top of the wheel opening and extends to the front.
I found this pic online of the last Stude I owned, a '66 Daytona Sports Sedan. It has that feature. I only owned it a year. It was rock solid everywhere, even when you pulled carpets up and took the back seat out. I thought a 283 in a '66 would be a good Stude for a guy like me, not a mechanic, and thought the flanged rear axle was a benefit. But I just really wasn't all that crazy about the car like I was my '63 and '64 before it. An Aussie came a-courtin' and like my two before it, it ended up in Australia.
The paint job wasn't too great--had I had it restored, I'd have sent it back I think--and the two-door sedan has a lighter-gauge frame than other Studes and even though the Chevy V8 is lighter than the Stude V8, the way it is placed in the frame sometimes results in frame cracks around the front spring pockets in two-door sedans. I could tell this car, at 66K miles when I bought it, had been repaired there and on one side was the tiny beginning of another hairline crack there.
On a side note, I did always like the flow-through-ventilation extractor vents on the rear of '66's, where the taillights had been on '64 and '65 models.
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x1000! I'll tell you, about the only current vehicle that turns my head is a C7 Corvette, and even it has to be one that's not a screaming color or one with black wheels and all that cladding that some of the upper versions have. An Impala LTZ turns my head, but I still want to see a dark green one but haven't. Other than that, I yawn at everything else.
Is the color you're referring to called "Rainforest Green"? I just looked it up online, and it looks pretty nice IMO. Last summer, I saw a current-gen Dodge Ram pickup in a shade of green that was very close and was thinking that if I got another truck, it would be in that color!
Hate to say it, but I don't think there's anything out there that really excites me anymore. The car I'd be most likely to get is a Charger, but I lost a little bit of interest, with the 2015 restyle. If I was going GM, it would most likely be an Impala. But, neither one really gets me *that* excited.
I might be channeling my inner childhood Smokey and the Bandit, but the thought of a new truck does get me a bit excited...even though that's the LAST thing I need! And then, when I look at the prices of them, I get a bit disillusioned. I think getting my 2012 Ram at the end of the model year, at such a cheap price, spoiled me to the point that seeing them priced more "normally", they just seem too expensive.
Hard to believe it has been 3 years since you bought your truck. I remember I looked around Charlotte to see if I could find a similar buy when you bought yours, for grins of course, but none to be found. You got a great buy!
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Is the color you're referring to called "Rainforest Green"?
andre, it occurred to me that I never answered your earlier question. On Chevy's website, for 2016 Impalas it shows a very dark green called "Green Envy". I seem to remember that a color called "Rainforest Green" was phased into '15 production, although when I look at '15 Impala info on that page it does not show that color. Since '15's are no longer being built, I wonder if that means there are actually no more "Rainforest Green" cars in dealer inventories, anywhere. I've never seen a single green current-model Impala in person. Frankly, I like the sound of 'Rainforest Green' better than 'Green Envy'--that sounds like a Mopar color from around 1970--good on a Challenger maybe but dopey on an Impala! LOL
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The 2015 Mustang GT I stupidly let get away was a dark green that Ford calls "Guard." A bit darker than the Highland Green you see on Bullitt Mustangs.
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Is the color you're referring to called "Rainforest Green"?
andre, it occurred to me that I never answered your earlier question. On Chevy's website, for 2016 Impalas it shows a very dark green called "Green Envy". I seem to remember that a color called "Rainforest Green" was phased into '15 production, although when I look at '15 Impala info on that page it does not show that color. Since '15's are no longer being built, I wonder if that means there are actually no more "Rainforest Green" cars in dealer inventories, anywhere. I've never seen a single green current-model Impala in person. Frankly, I like the sound of 'Rainforest Green' better than 'Green Envy'--that sounds like a Mopar color from around 1970--good on a Challenger maybe but dopey on an Impala! LOL
GM Canada still lists Rainforest Green as a color available on the Cruze. I have seen one, it is basically a very dark metallic green, looks almost black in anything other than daylight.
Oh, I think I saw something like that, a really dark almost black looking Mustang on the Ford lot during a walk this week. Was kind of hard to make the green out from some angles. Had almost forgot about that because I'd take my new Mustang as a dark red convertible thank you
Today I saw the dark green with off white top 72 T-Bird I see now and then - it was at the gas station (a frequent customer no doubt). I talked to the owner for a minute - he's had it for 33 years, drives it as often as possible. He loves it but now he thinks it is time to let it go. It's a very clean maintained car, and it has a mean appearance with a subtle hood scoop, Magnum 500 type wheels, and a warmed over engine. He said he already has a buyer lined up.
That '65 Bonneville wagon we discussed earlier, is back on eBay and bid in the $27's so far, $5K more than last time. While I could enjoy a different (more unusual) color more, I am smitten with this big GM wagon. 130 people "watching".
seems like one of those cars that is so rare and unique, that market is a nebulous term. Not like there are comparables. It ain't a 1970 Chevelle! So for that 1 guy that just has to have it and knows there may not be another one like it in existence, 30K instead of 20K, what the heck.
Maybe it will double like a Ferrari in a few years. Watched a recent chasing classic cars, and they showed a Ferrari (275 maybe? something from the 60s, and beautiful). Wayne said he sold that exact car, in same condition, in 2012 or so, and thought he broke the bank getting 895K at auction. Sold this year at auction for ~1.6 million. Someone did OK on that deal.
I agree, as I mentioned in the last discussion--how can one determine a "market" for a car like this? I have looked at 1965 Pontiacs on eBay for years and I have never seen one even remotely close to the condition and authenticity/originality of this one. For a Big Three car, in the year 2015, it's definitely out-of-the-mainstream!
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this is a real truck. Was looking for a better picture but did not find it. Belongs to Nicole Curtis from Rehab addict, and I have seen it on the show. 1962 Chevy, All manual, stick shift (4 speed with granny), manual 4WD. Must be a beast to drive (though she looks to be about 5'2', 110#s), but so cool!
Well, it could just be an outlier. We actually don't know the condition and authenticity. We don't even know if a car "sold" on eBay is actually sold.
Besides, there are auction databases that track '65 Pontiacs, so the general idea of the "market" is fairly well established. Not all collectors relish cars that have sat for years in dis-use. Many would prefer a rotisserie restoration over this car.
As for Ferraris, they don't just keep going up and up. In 1989-1990, some Ferrari "investors" lost 50% of their money in a snap of the fingers. Some Shelby and Mopars are worth less now than they were years ago.
I agree, as I mentioned in the last discussion--how can one determine a "market" for a car like this? I have looked at 1965 Pontiacs on eBay for years and I have never seen one even remotely close to the condition and authenticity/originality of this one. For a Big Three car, in the year 2015, it's definitely out-of-the-mainstream!
I can tell you, in the authenticity details that a lot of people gloss over or don't care about when they're sprucing up a car, this car is dead-on original and authentic...things like emblems, wheelcovers, colors, whitewall width, upholstery, plus he has documentation from new. The worst apparent thing, without it being on a lift, is that piece of carpeting on the load floor.
When I first bought an old car, I used to thumb through the "Old Car Price Guide" which was monthly. I think it was monthly merely to sell issues.
I, and the other poster I think, merely mean that there can't possibly have been a selection of 1965 Bonneville Custom Safaris in this level of authenticity for sale in the past several years...or we'd have seen them advertised.
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It doesn't matter how authenticity appeals to you--it matters how it appeals to the market in general.
Besides, there is simply no way to judge a car from photos. I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between flattering photos and seeing the real car can be shocking. Anyone bidding this much for this car without seeing it is foolish IMO.
Regardless of all that, this is a Pontiac wagon, it's not a Ferrari, it's not a GTO, a 2D hardtop or a convertible. The niche is very small and the market forces are not very active on this type of car. Buyers are out there but they are few.
The market says $20K-$22K at best. Pay more if you love it, but don't expect to get that back anytime soon.
Speaking of old trucks, I went to an estate sale yesterday, and while looking through a pile of old ephemera, I found this - and for some reason, bought it:
Kind of interesting how things have changed - something like this probably wouldn't sell at all today, not fancy enough.
One has to know what's authentic on a particular year and model. These things I do know on a 1965 full-size Pontiac. That car has it...at least on top and inside. Authenticity isn't an opinion...it is or it isn't and can easily be verified to sales brochures and the like. Authenticity typically brings the most money. If this Bonne had aftermarket seating, wheels, nameplates missing and holes filled in, etc., I strongly doubt it would be bringing the kind of bids it has brought.
Just sayin'.
I simply have not seen another '65 Bonneville wagon even a mile from that car's condition, and I doubt anyone on here has either....at least not since the late '60's. And I'm frequently looking.
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It doesn't matter how authenticity appeals to you--it matters how it appeals to the market in general.
Besides, there is simply no way to judge a car from photos. I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between flattering photos and seeing the real car can be shocking. Anyone bidding this much for this car without seeing it is foolish IMO.
Regardless of all that, this is a Pontiac wagon, it's not a Ferrari, it's not a GTO, a 2D hardtop or a convertible. The niche is very small and the market forces are not very active on this type of car. Buyers are out there but they are few.
The market says $20K-$22K at best. Pay more if you love it, but don't expect to get that back anytime soon.
Buy what you like, that's the final say.
I guess the question is, which market? The ebay market, the Hemmings market, the cars-on-line.com market, or the Barrett-Jackson TV auction market? All of those can result in very different selling prices. I actually tend to agree that low 20K is probably close to the mark, but at B-J with the right audience I can see this going for twice that.
My wife would buy it for sure - she's always mumbled about having a truck camper. And Travels With Charley was always a favorite book of mine. My wife barely kept me from hitting the poodle rescue group in Palm Springs last week after we chatted up an owner of an apricot standard (Charley in the book was a black standard poodle). Great dogs.
I still see 'em tooling down the roads out there. Big Facebook group of owners too.
Well one sale doesn't make a market, and without seeing the car or even being able to verify the sale, it's just a number sitting out there in space. If some drunk at B-J pays $100,000 for it, is that the new market for '65 Pontiac wagons? Don't think so.
It doesn't matter how authenticity appeals to you--it matters how it appeals to the market in general.
Besides, there is simply no way to judge a car from photos. I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between flattering photos and seeing the real car can be shocking. Anyone bidding this much for this car without seeing it is foolish IMO.
Regardless of all that, this is a Pontiac wagon, it's not a Ferrari, it's not a GTO, a 2D hardtop or a convertible. The niche is very small and the market forces are not very active on this type of car. Buyers are out there but they are few.
The market says $20K-$22K at best. Pay more if you love it, but don't expect to get that back anytime soon.
Buy what you like, that's the final say.
I guess the question is, which market? The ebay market, the Hemmings market, the cars-on-line.com market, or the Barrett-Jackson TV auction market? All of those can result in very different selling prices. I actually tend to agree that low 20K is probably close to the mark, but at B-J with the right audience I can see this going for twice that.
Well one sale doesn't make a market, and without seeing the car or even being able to verify the sale, it's just a number sitting out there in space. If some drunk at B-J pays $100,000 for it, is that the new market for '65 Pontiac wagons? Don't think so.
Lots would disagree though. The B-J lunacy has a lot to do with the skyrocketing prices of many categories of cars, like it or not.
My wife would buy it for sure - she's always mumbled about having a truck camper.
The one on the last page is odd. It looks like they grafted a camper on the top of a utility body like the ones the phone company used in the old days, maybe still.
Well, BJ has affected the Hemi/Malibu SS/Camaro/Corvette/Mustang market, I guess, but when oddballs like this wagon appear, the interest can be pretty spotty, seems to me.
Well, BJ has affected the Hemi/Malibu SS/Camaro/Corvette/Mustang market, I guess, but when oddballs like this wagon appear, the interest can be pretty spotty, seems to me.
Wouldn't shock me to see articles coming out saying "Are wagons the new Hemis?"?
It's really kind of pointless though, for us to talk about a car we can't even see. Lots of people who go to Barrett Jackson are not buying blind. They talk to the owners, if available, and they have all day to examine the car they are bidding on. They can even hear it run. And not all of them are happy with their purchases either.
My wife would buy it for sure - she's always mumbled about having a truck camper.
The one on the last page is odd. It looks like they grafted a camper on the top of a utility body like the ones the phone company used in the old days, maybe still.
The cubbies are cool and since I already work at the job site, living out of it would do just fine. Have to park a wifi repeater gizmo in one of the cubbies to make the signal reach the campfire easily.
I love a lot of those 65 GM cars, but wagons that year - I'd have to go for Mopar or Ford personally. A 65 Pontiac that I like, but seems to have a lot of differing opinions is the Grand Prix.
watched an episode of desert car kings (a really cheesily done show IMO. But hey, it's cars) and they redid a 1966 Chevelle SS convertible. That is a sharp looking car.
watched an episode of desert car kings (a really cheesily done show IMO. But hey, it's cars) and they redid a 1966 Chevelle SS convertible. That is a sharp looking car.
I always thought the '66 Chevelle had the best front end and the worst rear end styling of that generation of Chevelles.
Pretty cool. I hadn't bothered to look, but had no idea there was a cult behind them. I think I have seen a couple of those before, but never paid attention. I just bought the brochures as the covers looked kind of cool. Maybe I'll find someone to pass them on to.
My wife would buy it for sure - she's always mumbled about having a truck camper. And Travels With Charley was always a favorite book of mine. My wife barely kept me from hitting the poodle rescue group in Palm Springs last week after we chatted up an owner of an apricot standard (Charley in the book was a black standard poodle). Great dogs.
I still see 'em tooling down the roads out there. Big Facebook group of owners too.
The '65 Bonne wagon was bid to $27,850.00. The seller has 932 transactions with 100% positive feedback. It was one of the better eBay presentations I have seen.
Amazingly to me, there is a loaded '68 Bonneville wagon on eBay now, also bid to $27K. Personally, I don't care for the '68 as much as it was the era of 'energy absorbing' interiors. The car has zero documentation, but it is interesting. That Verdoro Green was popular and only Pontiac had it. Colors were usually shared across the divisions.
The eight-lug wheels are gorgeous I think. The flip side of that, I guess, is that's a big car in 1968 to be stopping with front drums! LOL
I have seen eight-lugs on a very deep burgundy '67 Executive Safari in shows in this area, but I don't remember seeing new wagons with eight-lugs. The '68 Pontiac wagon brochure (the "Old Car Manual Project" online is your friend!) does picture a full-size wagon with them.
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I think the problem with that '65 Bonneville wagon (and the '68, to a lesser degree) is that it's a car that I'd love to see at a car show, and I could ooh and ahh over it for awhile, but in the end, it's not a car I'd want to own. And, it's probably that way for a lot of people, so there's just not a huge market for it.
My own achilles heel in regards to these types of "not a huge market" cars would be a 50's or 60's 4-door hardtop, or some of those big lovebarges of the 70's and early 80's, to where I'd probably be willing to pay more than one is really worth, if it was in nice shape. In fact, even among those big battlecruisers, my tastes tend to run against the herd. Usually buyers for those types of cars go for the models that in their day were the most expensive, prestigious, and loaded-up. But, in my case, I'd rather have a quad-headlight model '74-75 C-body Fury/Monaco, than a fully-loaded New Yorker or Imperial. Or a '77 Catalina, instead of a fully-loaded Caddy, Electra, etc.
Oh, as for brakes, my '69 Bonneville 4-door hardtop had disc brakes. It also had 15" wheels. My '67 Catalina convertible, at the time, had 14" wheels (currently has non-correct 15x7 Rally 2s on it). I tried to swap the wheels between the two, but the Catalina's 14" rims would not clear the disc brake setup on the Bonneville.
The Catalina's all-drum brakes actually do stop the car pretty quickly, so it would be good for a few panic stops, at least, before brake fade set in too bad I guess. But, a wagon would be a bit heavier than a convertible.
One little detail that bugs me about the Bonneville wagon is that it's on the shorter Catalina wheelbase, rather than the longer wheelbase of the other Bonneville models. I'm sure the car is still plenty big enough, but somehow putting it on the shorter wheelbase makes me think the car is getting the short end of the stick. Considering the low number produced though, it probably made sense to make it share the Catalina wheelbase. Plus, where Pontiac put the extra wheelbase in the other Bonnevilles was pretty useless anyway. It didn't give you any more room in the passenger cabin, but gave you a longer trunk, with the additional area actually ahead of rear axle hump. Considering the Bonneville also tacked a few inches onto the trunk in back of the axle anyway, that would have made for a long reach to get to the very front of the trunk area. On a wagon, that extra length would have come in handy, but again, on a low volume body style, it probably doesn't make sense to offer that much variety in sizes.
I'd love to own that Bonne, although I would like another color better...I'd rather have it than a more-numerous two-door hardtop or convertible of the same year and model. Most people wouldn't, and that's OK, but I like under-the-radar in most stuff.
"Big" goes against my grain usually, but there are some things about mid-sixties big Pontiacs that I think are wonderful. A GTO, meh.
A white '63 Studebaker Lark Daytona Wagonaire sold on eBay (confirmed by the seller) for $28K a year or two ago. It was stunning, although was a restoration instead of an original car. I love Studebakers, but that this Pontiac wouldn't be bid to that is a bit of a head-scratcher to me. I guess there is never any logic to the 'classic' car market. Although, bids in the 27's for a wagon aren't anything to be sneezed at I guess, really!
For some reason, I'm reminded of a guy I know in our local Studebaker club, who had a black R2 GT Hawk, stunningly authentic, and now has a white '64 Avanti R2. We were both looking at a '57 Golden Hawk that had spotlights and every freaking accessory on it, as well as aftermarket fender skirts (ugh). He said to me, "That sure is all hillbillied up, isn't it?". That term seemed so appropriate, I use it now when I see a car with skirts, continental kit, spotlights, etc. LOL
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andre, I like Bonneville's interiors and such, but that added length is not only not very useful I think, but it's ungainly on some of the cars. I find Executives interesting because they're comparatively rare, but for some reason, a 4-door 'post' sedan with that longer wheelbase looks sort-of goofy to me. I like the fastback roof of Bonneville two-doors better than the Grand Prix's more notched roofline though.
You're right...the Bonneville wagon is no longer than a Catalina. Back then, I thought it was unusual that an Executive wagon had woodgrain outside, but the Bonneville didn't. In '70, they made the woodgrain optional on the Bonneville wagon. I guess without the woodgrain, there'd be no difference (and I mean none except the nameplate) between an Executive wagon and a Catalina with the Ventura option.
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That is a beautiful Bonneville Vista, but the wagon is far-rarer which makes it more interesting to me which probably contributed to bidders bidding $5K more than the asking price of this car. Of course, I believe more folks probably look at eBay than cars.com, so it could of course be that people who saw the wagon never even saw the Vista--like me.
The three deuces are nice, but this car doesn't have the power windows nor the power vent windows the wagon does.
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The wagon production was about 1/10th of the 4D hardtop production. Usually you see old 60s and 70s wagons in two versions----unrestored or total crap.
Buying these low mileage original cars has its pluses and minuses. On the one hand you have the originality for bragging rights, but you don't want to drive it lest you add up the miles (and diminish the cachet), and if you need a new part, you have to hunt for NOS, as steward of the originality that you now are.
Personally, the idea of sitting in a beach chair at car shows is not very appealing. I'd rather be out on the road touring with my classic prize. If owners of $1 million dollar Ferraris can take them out on the track, then owners of old wagons can drive them around. There's a difference between rare and precious.
There actually is a station wagon niche in old car fans and several related car books on wagons. I agree with Andre and like 4 doors sometimes, but everyone is right, they probably won't make you any money. But wagons and sedans are what most of us grew up with, except the younger generation may have had minivans instead.
Now if that 68 wagon was the same color as that sedan, it would really catch my eye. The green is cool in a period correct way, but the blue is prettier. The sedan looks to be in nicer shape too, although the low quality images could be hiding the little flaws you can see on the wagon.
IMO, the 65 wagon is worth its bids, too. Not everyone's cup of tea, but good luck finding another with the same cosmetic condition, eye appeal, and originality.
It's worth it to the bidder obviously. We've had this discussion before of course. There's a difference between a single sale and "the market". The market averages out many sales and comes up with a likely result.
But markets shift, both up and down. The 60s wagon market is definitely a teensy niche, but it's out there. Given that this very car seems to have had a very wide margin between two auctions (the first and the repeat), there's no reason to suggest the new result is the new market.
I still think bidding on a car like this without seeing it is crazy.
Well that's odd - after viewing the Pontiac hardtop ad on Cars.com, I now get Cars.com video ads in the lead in to youtube videos - with THAT Pontiac featured! Scary efficient, these ads are!
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I forgot about those. It's easy to forget the '57 had that feature I think, since the metal grille/trim wraps around right there.
The club magazine, probably twenty or more years ago, ran a feature article on the '56 sedans. At that time there was, I'm thinking, at least one or a couple guys who still had the ones they bought new, who wrote in. Anyway, more readers wrote in that those were the best cars they ever owned, than any other Stude model I can think of. I'm not a real big fan, generally. I could enjoy a '56 Commander two-door sedan or '57 Packard Country Sedan (station wagon).
In fact, my dealer friend, now that I think about it, told me he thought customers seemed happiest with their '56's and their '60 Larks (second model year).
In the early 70s we had a country property and my dad picked up a '65 Chevy as a farm truck. It was pretty beat - the box had likely rotted off, so it had a homebuilt wooden stake bed - with some rust in the cab corners, but otherwise it seemed pretty solid. Pea green, 3 on the tree, no power anything, straight 6. I learned to drive around the property with it. It seemed big but of course it was positively tiny compared to today's pickups.
The engine burned a lot of oil so my brother, who was into cars and good at mechanical stuff, volunteered to replace valve seals, rings, etc. It wasn't registered or insured, so we decided to have him drive it to his house one night on the 20 miles of 2-lane that would get it there with us riding shotgun in Dad's car right behind it in case anything went wrong, since we weren't too confident it could make the trip. It did fine, but I remember being behind it in the dark with just headlight illumination and it was firing a steady stream of red-hot carbon bits (I assume) out of the tailpipe. Each time one hit the asphalt it looked like someone threw a lit cigarette out of the truck and burst onto the road with a shower of sparks.
Those early '60s Ford pickups look good, but I see they still have a straight front axle. I think Twin I-beam came along in '66? I was surprised last week to see pictures locally of a traffic accident here where a newish Ford 4wd pickup was t-boned at an intersection and knocked on its side. One picture showed the undercarriage as it laid there and the front end was still Twin I-beam, to my surprise. Maybe all 4wd trucks use something similar, but I just expected something a bit more sophisticated nowadays.
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I found this pic online of the last Stude I owned, a '66 Daytona Sports Sedan. It has that feature. I only owned it a year. It was rock solid everywhere, even when you pulled carpets up and took the back seat out. I thought a 283 in a '66 would be a good Stude for a guy like me, not a mechanic, and thought the flanged rear axle was a benefit. But I just really wasn't all that crazy about the car like I was my '63 and '64 before it. An Aussie came a-courtin' and like my two before it, it ended up in Australia.
The paint job wasn't too great--had I had it restored, I'd have sent it back I think--and the two-door sedan has a lighter-gauge frame than other Studes and even though the Chevy V8 is lighter than the Stude V8, the way it is placed in the frame sometimes results in frame cracks around the front spring pockets in two-door sedans. I could tell this car, at 66K miles when I bought it, had been repaired there and on one side was the tiny beginning of another hairline crack there.
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?54011-Finally-PIX-Bill-Pressler-s-new-66-Daytona
On a side note, I did always like the flow-through-ventilation extractor vents on the rear of '66's, where the taillights had been on '64 and '65 models.
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andre, it occurred to me that I never answered your earlier question. On Chevy's website, for 2016 Impalas it shows a very dark green called "Green Envy". I seem to remember that a color called "Rainforest Green" was phased into '15 production, although when I look at '15 Impala info on that page it does not show that color. Since '15's are no longer being built, I wonder if that means there are actually no more "Rainforest Green" cars in dealer inventories, anywhere. I've never seen a single green current-model Impala in person. Frankly, I like the sound of 'Rainforest Green' better than 'Green Envy'--that sounds like a Mopar color from around 1970--good on a Challenger maybe but dopey on an Impala! LOL
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Bonneville-/221968247948?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33ae56ac8c:g:qBIAAOSw7FRWXRrE&item=221968247948
Maybe it will double like a Ferrari in a few years. Watched a recent chasing classic cars, and they showed a Ferrari (275 maybe? something from the 60s, and beautiful). Wayne said he sold that exact car, in same condition, in 2012 or so, and thought he broke the bank getting 895K at auction. Sold this year at auction for ~1.6 million. Someone did OK on that deal.
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Besides, there are auction databases that track '65 Pontiacs, so the general idea of the "market" is fairly well established. Not all collectors relish cars that have sat for years in dis-use. Many would prefer a rotisserie restoration over this car.
As for Ferraris, they don't just keep going up and up. In 1989-1990, some Ferrari "investors" lost 50% of their money in a snap of the fingers. Some Shelby and Mopars are worth less now than they were years ago.
When I first bought an old car, I used to thumb through the "Old Car Price Guide" which was monthly. I think it was monthly merely to sell issues.
I, and the other poster I think, merely mean that there can't possibly have been a selection of 1965 Bonneville Custom Safaris in this level of authenticity for sale in the past several years...or we'd have seen them advertised.
Besides, there is simply no way to judge a car from photos. I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between flattering photos and seeing the real car can be shocking. Anyone bidding this much for this car without seeing it is foolish IMO.
Regardless of all that, this is a Pontiac wagon, it's not a Ferrari, it's not a GTO, a 2D hardtop or a convertible. The niche is very small and the market forces are not very active on this type of car. Buyers are out there but they are few.
The market says $20K-$22K at best. Pay more if you love it, but don't expect to get that back anytime soon.
Buy what you like, that's the final say.
Kind of interesting how things have changed - something like this probably wouldn't sell at all today, not fancy enough.
Just sayin'.
I simply have not seen another '65 Bonneville wagon even a mile from that car's condition, and I doubt anyone on here has either....at least not since the late '60's.
as to the Pontiac, my assumption is whoever buys it plans to keep it, not flip it as an investment.
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I still see 'em tooling down the roads out there. Big Facebook group of owners too.
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2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Amazingly to me, there is a loaded '68 Bonneville wagon on eBay now, also bid to $27K. Personally, I don't care for the '68 as much as it was the era of 'energy absorbing' interiors. The car has zero documentation, but it is interesting. That Verdoro Green was popular and only Pontiac had it. Colors were usually shared across the divisions.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Bonneville-/321951404299?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4af5cc910b:g:gPAAAOSwYaFWckqN&item=321951404299
The eight-lug wheels are gorgeous I think. The flip side of that, I guess, is that's a big car in 1968 to be stopping with front drums! LOL
I have seen eight-lugs on a very deep burgundy '67 Executive Safari in shows in this area, but I don't remember seeing new wagons with eight-lugs. The '68 Pontiac wagon brochure (the "Old Car Manual Project" online is your friend!) does picture a full-size wagon with them.
My own achilles heel in regards to these types of "not a huge market" cars would be a 50's or 60's 4-door hardtop, or some of those big lovebarges of the 70's and early 80's, to where I'd probably be willing to pay more than one is really worth, if it was in nice shape. In fact, even among those big battlecruisers, my tastes tend to run against the herd. Usually buyers for those types of cars go for the models that in their day were the most expensive, prestigious, and loaded-up. But, in my case, I'd rather have a quad-headlight model '74-75 C-body Fury/Monaco, than a fully-loaded New Yorker or Imperial. Or a '77 Catalina, instead of a fully-loaded Caddy, Electra, etc.
Oh, as for brakes, my '69 Bonneville 4-door hardtop had disc brakes. It also had 15" wheels. My '67 Catalina convertible, at the time, had 14" wheels (currently has non-correct 15x7 Rally 2s on it). I tried to swap the wheels between the two, but the Catalina's 14" rims would not clear the disc brake setup on the Bonneville.
The Catalina's all-drum brakes actually do stop the car pretty quickly, so it would be good for a few panic stops, at least, before brake fade set in too bad I guess. But, a wagon would be a bit heavier than a convertible.
One little detail that bugs me about the Bonneville wagon is that it's on the shorter Catalina wheelbase, rather than the longer wheelbase of the other Bonneville models. I'm sure the car is still plenty big enough, but somehow putting it on the shorter wheelbase makes me think the car is getting the short end of the stick. Considering the low number produced though, it probably made sense to make it share the Catalina wheelbase. Plus, where Pontiac put the extra wheelbase in the other Bonnevilles was pretty useless anyway. It didn't give you any more room in the passenger cabin, but gave you a longer trunk, with the additional area actually ahead of rear axle hump. Considering the Bonneville also tacked a few inches onto the trunk in back of the axle anyway, that would have made for a long reach to get to the very front of the trunk area. On a wagon, that extra length would have come in handy, but again, on a low volume body style, it probably doesn't make sense to offer that much variety in sizes.
"Big" goes against my grain usually, but there are some things about mid-sixties big Pontiacs that I think are wonderful. A GTO, meh.
A white '63 Studebaker Lark Daytona Wagonaire sold on eBay (confirmed by the seller) for $28K a year or two ago. It was stunning, although was a restoration instead of an original car. I love Studebakers, but that this Pontiac wouldn't be bid to that is a bit of a head-scratcher to me. I guess there is never any logic to the 'classic' car market. Although, bids in the 27's for a wagon aren't anything to be sneezed at I guess, really!
For some reason, I'm reminded of a guy I know in our local Studebaker club, who had a black R2 GT Hawk, stunningly authentic, and now has a white '64 Avanti R2. We were both looking at a '57 Golden Hawk that had spotlights and every freaking accessory on it, as well as aftermarket fender skirts (ugh). He said to me, "That sure is all hillbillied up, isn't it?". That term seemed so appropriate, I use it now when I see a car with skirts, continental kit, spotlights, etc. LOL
You're right...the Bonneville wagon is no longer than a Catalina. Back then, I thought it was unusual that an Executive wagon had woodgrain outside, but the Bonneville didn't. In '70, they made the woodgrain optional on the Bonneville wagon. I guess without the woodgrain, there'd be no difference (and I mean none except the nameplate) between an Executive wagon and a Catalina with the Ventura option.
Probably yours for $20K---seems about market-correct. Probably more of these survived than wagons.
65 Pontiac Bonneville Survivor
The three deuces are nice, but this car doesn't have the power windows nor the power vent windows the wagon does.
Buying these low mileage original cars has its pluses and minuses. On the one hand you have the originality for bragging rights, but you don't want to drive it lest you add up the miles (and diminish the cachet), and if you need a new part, you have to hunt for NOS, as steward of the originality that you now are.
Personally, the idea of sitting in a beach chair at car shows is not very appealing. I'd rather be out on the road touring with my classic prize. If owners of $1 million dollar Ferraris can take them out on the track, then owners of old wagons can drive them around. There's a difference between rare and precious.
IMO, the 65 wagon is worth its bids, too. Not everyone's cup of tea, but good luck finding another with the same cosmetic condition, eye appeal, and originality.
But markets shift, both up and down. The 60s wagon market is definitely a teensy niche, but it's out there. Given that this very car seems to have had a very wide margin between two auctions (the first and the repeat), there's no reason to suggest the new result is the new market.
I still think bidding on a car like this without seeing it is crazy.