Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nyccarguy · March 2016

stickguy said:

this is interesting. Looks nice. not too old. Good price. but steep miles. assuming of course it really is a stickshift, not a mis-labeled ad. Since they neglected to include interior shots. EDIT: should have looked at carfax 1st. I would bet it is an AT. Started as a rental, and been traded around a bit. Plus shows an accident, and transmission replaced at 97K. Sounds like a car that had a hard life! http://www.turnersvilleautomall.com/detail-2011-ford-mustang-2dr_convertible_v6_premium-used-14778546.html

And it's most important flaw? It is not V8

stickguy · March 2016

the V6 (as long as not the old 4.0(?)) is enough for us. And probably a lot safer!

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

The accident was 12/2014 -- car was rear-ended. Transmission replacement was 6/2015. Good service records.

stickguy · March 2016

well, with the miles, and being done at the dealer, probably better that it was just done than just about to go! on a 2011, that is about the only big ticket item that would really scare me anyway. And I can walk to the dealer that did all the work!

rayainsw · March 2016

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/mar/nyas/chevrolet/0316-camaro-zl1.html

10 speed automatic - huh....

corvette · March 2016

rayainsw said:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/mar/nyas/chevrolet/0316-camaro-zl1.html 10 speed automatic - huh....

At some point, you're going to have so many speeds it might as well be a CVT.

ab348 · March 2016

I dunno if a CVT belt could ever handle that much HP though.

roadburner · March 2016

rayainsw said:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/mar/nyas/chevrolet/0316-camaro-zl1.html

10 speed automatic - huh....

@rayainsw : As well you know; the 8 speed ZF 8HP automatic is an excellent transmission; I I simply cannot see why it would need 2 more ratios.
From a maintenance standpoint, you might also be interested in this ZF List of approved lubricants. Page 4 lists the ATF for the 8 speed automatic, along with part numbers for the ATF as sold by the vehicle manufacturer. Also note on page 5 that ZF recommends an ATF change every 60,000-120,000 km(50,000-75,000 miles) or 8 years under the following conditions:

- frequent highway driving in top speed range,
- offensive, sporty driving style,
- frequent trailer operation,

I plan to change the ATF in the 2er every 50,000 miles, primarily because it will be my track toy for the next several years. Otherwise I would go with the 75,000 mile interval.

rayainsw · March 2016

'offensive, sporty driving style,'
Offensive ?
- Ray
LOL

rayainsw · March 2016

And - from the Charger Owner's Manual RE: the 8-speed automatic trans. -
'Fluid And Filter Changes
Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at
the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the
life of the vehicle.'

roadburner · March 2016

rayainsw said:
'offensive, sporty driving style,'
Offensive ?
- Ray
LOL

Likely a translation issue; aggressive is probably what they meant.

rayainsw said:
And - from the Charger Owner's Manual RE: the 8-speed automatic trans. -
'Fluid And Filter Changes
Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at
the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the
life of the vehicle.'

As does ZF;

Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions.

ZF is concerned about what has been an issue with automatics for decades:

driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils.

xwesx · March 2016

rayainsw said:
And - from the Charger Owner's Manual RE: the 8-speed automatic trans. -
'Fluid And Filter Changes
Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at
the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the
life of the vehicle.'

Yeah, but it's a Chrysler product; I'm sure they don't expect its lifespan to be all that long!

roadburner · March 2016

xwesx said:

rayainsw said:
And - from the Charger Owner's Manual RE: the 8-speed automatic trans. -
'Fluid And Filter Changes
Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at
the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the
life of the vehicle.'

Yeah, but it's a Chrysler product; I'm sure they don't expect its lifespan to be all that long!

I've said it before and will say it again: I'd take a new Charger with the Road and Track package over a new F10 535i M Sport every time.

And I'd probably take a Charger Hellcat over an M5.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

rayainsw said:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/mar/nyas/chevrolet/0316-camaro-zl1.html

10 speed automatic - huh....

My ZL 1 would have 11 speeds, just like that guy in Spinal Tap.

stickguy · March 2016

I change the ATF in my Hondas on the early side, not trusting the V6/AT combo. I think I did a design and gill at 30k on the RDX. Will likely do it again at 60k, if I ever get there!

berri · March 2016

I've been told by several Honda dealers not to flush the tranny, but to just drain and fill and that is why the more frequent recommended transmission fluid changes. BUT, I'll also say that my experience with various Honda dealers is that they are very aggressive at pushing all kinds of crap on you during service visits. I'm thinking Honda allows this to pad margins because they don't publish service schedules in their manuals anymore and the auto reminder really isn't reliable if you change and reset your oil before 20% or so because it wipes out the other input. Personally, I'm losing confidence in Honda.

andres3 · March 2016

xwesx said:

rayainsw said:
And - from the Charger Owner's Manual RE: the 8-speed automatic trans. -
'Fluid And Filter Changes
Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at
the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the
life of the vehicle.'

Yeah, but it's a Chrysler product; I'm sure they don't expect its lifespan to be all that long!

Yes, I can't see Chrysler figuring the expected lifespan is anything longer than the warranty period.

stever · March 2016

Don't jinx me, decided to keep the '09 Grand Caravan for a dump runner and it just passed 160,000 miles.

I've had good luck with model year cars that end in 9.

andres3 · March 2016

roadburner said:

xwesx said:

rayainsw said:
And - from the Charger Owner's Manual RE: the 8-speed automatic trans. -
'Fluid And Filter Changes
Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at
the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the
life of the vehicle.'

Yeah, but it's a Chrysler product; I'm sure they don't expect its lifespan to be all that long!
I've said it before and will say it again: I'd take a new Charger with the Road and Track package over a new F10 535i M Sport every time.

And I'd probably take a Charger Hellcat over an M5.

If I want a super heavy but fast beast I'll take the S6, which is good for 4.5 and under sprints to 60, 420 HP, and a V8; what's not to like. I suspect it'll spend less time in the shop than any version of the Charger.

au1994 · March 2016

rayainsw said:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/mar/nyas/chevrolet/0316-camaro-zl1.html 10 speed automatic - huh....

Hmm...that's sounds like the potential for a lot of hunting and pecking for gears. I will say the 8spd In the BMWs is a good one

berri · March 2016

Stever, I like your analysis, but my best vehicles have tended to be even years.

stever · March 2016

Well, if I manage to buy a new car this year, it'll be an even number yet it will have an upside down 9. Best of both worlds.

xwesx · March 2016

stickguy said:
I think I did a design and gill at 30k on the RDX

LOL! I'm guessing you meant what @berri said (drain and fill), but that was sure funny to read!

stickguy · March 2016

was gonna say Steve, keeping it for a dump runner implies you are actually buying something for other duty, which does not seem to be happening anytime soon!

andres3 · March 2016

In shopping Golf R inventory in CA, I'm noticing the DSG models sell like hot-cakes, the manual transmission languishes. Go out and buy manuals you 3 pedal lovers out there!

stever · March 2016

stickguy said:
was gonna say Steve, keeping it for a dump runner implies you are actually buying something for other duty, which does not seem to be happening anytime soon!

Well, it's not like cars are a limited supply commodity. Doesn't help that we're picky though. May as well keep the van since I do wind up hauling stuff every week or three, and it's been cheap to own and operate and insure.

tjc78 · March 2016

stickguy said:

well, with the miles, and being done at the dealer, probably better that it was just done than just about to go! on a 2011, that is about the only big ticket item that would really scare me anyway. And I can walk to the dealer that did all the work!

I know at one point they had a very good service department, but that was a long time ago. The service manager bought the Grand Marquis I traded in and drove it forever.

fintail · March 2016

I'll take an E550 - they also have working turn signals and Bluetooth

andres3 said:

And I'd probably take a Charger Hellcat over an M5.

If I want a super heavy but fast beast I'll take the S6, which is good for 4.5 and under sprints to 60, 420 HP, and a V8; what's not to like. I suspect it'll spend less time in the shop than any version of the Charger.

rayainsw · March 2016

The 2017 Ford Fusion Sport [ Edmunds Says ] offers:
'Inside, the Sport offers active noise-cancelling, which the driver can disengage to allow more engine and exhaust sound into the cabin.'

stevedebi · March 2016

rayainsw said:
The 2017 Ford Fusion Sport [ Edmunds Says ] offers:
'Inside, the Sport offers active noise-cancelling, which the driver can disengage to allow more engine and exhaust sound into the cabin.'

Or just pull the fuse.

But these cars can really cause ear problems without ANC. They make the engine without some noise reduction features to save money, and use ANC to make them sound OK. The C-Max has been known to make a long WOOOO sound when ANC malfunctions. That is not a pleasant sound. Maybe ford just changed the ANC to let some stuff through, or maybe that sport has a different engine tuning or something.

corvette · March 2016

VW did the opposite on the GLI I had. Put a speaker next to the firewall to make a fake engine growl. I thought it was too loud in many situations and pulled the plug. The engine was almost silent after that.

henryn · March 2016

Ford does something similar in my F150. Fake engine noise to make the 2.7L twin turbo V6 sound more like a V8. If you change out the factory stereo for an aftermarket, you lose the fake engine noise, so apparently the sound is "injected" into the factory stereo.

roadburner · March 2016

On the 2 Series you can-with the proper software and cables-recode the artificial engine noise to sound like an M3/M4...

stickguy · March 2016

dang. Good stuff moves quick! Saw this incoming a few days ago, and pictures just showed up today. This is an interesting option for a short term "relationship". Nice looking, not too old, loaded, not crazy miles. Probably a bit too bargey for me, but I know some others floating around here would consider it a "compact".

List price was $6,900. Pretty good amount of car for the money. Good looking colors too!

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2008-toyota-avalon-4dr_sedan_xls-used-14803959.html

andre1969 · March 2016

Well, it looks like I'm back in the fray. I put my 2000 Park Ave in the shop to have it looked over. I was hoping it would just be a lot of maintenance, but it all added up. It needs new brakes and rotors all around. Needs new shocks, and because it's an Ultra with some kind of special leveling/damping shocks or whatever, it's an OEM GM part, and not cheap. It also has suspension issues...tie rods, bearing hubs, etc. Plus, the fuel lines and brake lines and hoses are rotting/rusting out. Then, on top of that, it was running a bit hotter than normal, so a cooling check was in order. Plus a transmission service, and changing the supercharger oil. It's not really high-mileage, only around 111,400, but it's getting old. Oh, and the check engine light comes on intermittently, but I did luck out and it went off before the last emissions test, so I'm good for another two years, there. It's also not looking too pretty these days. The leather on the base of the driver's seat ripped. The paint is fading in a few places. And there's rust forming on the lower edge of one of the back doors.

And, the icing on the cake is that every once in awhile, the trip odometer and trip computer (fuel economy, etc.) will reset itself. And there's a cherry on top...it's died on me 3 times in the last 3 months, despite the battery being good (I think...I replaced it around May of 2013). The first time, it refused to start in my driveway, but I put a battery charger on it, and it started up later. And was good for about a month, maybe a bit more. The second time, it died in an iffy neighborhood in DC. That time, I had a portable jump starter with me, and that did the trick. The third time, about a week later, it died at work. That time, I just popped the hood, smacked around on the battery cables, and it started. And haven't had a problem since. But, that might come back.

So, now I'm in the market for something to replace it with. But the sad thing is, I haven't got a clue what I want. I'm accustomed to bigger, relatively simple cars, but as long as it can hold 4 people in decent comfort, that's all I really need. Plus, they don't really make decent 5-6 passenger cars anymore, at least not in my opinion...you have to go SUV, minivan, or crew cab truck for that.

I'm also not in a big hurry, as I have my 2012 Ram, which is a regular cab, long bed. And now that the weather's getting nicer, I'm going to start driving my antique cars a bit more. Fuel economy really isn't a huge concern, as my commute to work is 2.5 miles each way, although I've noticed my recreational/running around driving has picked up in the past 6 months or so. Still, we're talking under 10,000 miles per year most likely.

Right now, I'd say my three favorite cars on the market are the Dodge Charger, Chrysler 300, and Chevy Impala, in that order. Next runner up, if I went the SUV/Crossover route, would be a Dodge Durango. But, I don't know if I want to cough up that kind of money right now. I've only broken the 5-digit barrier twice in my life...$22,389 for a 2000 Intrepid back in November 1999, and $20,751 for the Ram, back in September 2012. Everything else has either been cheap, an impulse buy, or a hand-me-down from a family member.

I have a feeling this is gonna be a long, long journey...

suydam · March 2016

My son got an Impala when his '98 LeSabre bit the dust. He really likes it. You might look also at the Toyota Avalon. I don't think your search will be too long because there aren't that many large nice cars left! You'll take a hit on fuel economy if you go the SUV route. So unless the higher seating appeals a sedan might do the trick. Have you sat in a Buick LaCrosse? I rode in one as an Uber vehicle and it was very nice.

stickguy · March 2016

I'm looking for you. what is your tolerance for age and miles?

Michaell · March 2016

stickguy said:

I'm looking for you. what is your tolerance for age and miles?

And budget?

xwesx · March 2016

That's funny (as a coincidence), andre. I was going through a pondering myself after having a(nother) stupid human moment on Tuesday morning.

Let me see if I can walk through the chain of events recently.....

In early February, a guy in a new(er) Ram pickup, 2014 IIRC, sideswipes me (in my 2008 Forester) because he wanted to occupy the same place/time as me. Amazingly, both vehicles are pretty much unscathed, even though he contacted me just aft of the passenger front wheel all the way to the rear wheel. So, lucky break for both of us.

You can see the little mark on the A pillar, as well as the tear in the door seal on the B pillar in this photo. I had tire rub all the way down the doors, but it was spotless after washing it!

Then, I went down to Palmer with my daughter on the first weekend of March. We brought some stuff back with us, which shifted while driving, and I didn't think about this after opening the rear hatch.... but I sure realized my mistake as soon as I shut the door!

Fast forward a week-point-five to this Tuesday. I had an appointment to replace the rear glass at 0800. So, I'm running a little late, was in a hurry, and I was *clearly* not being respectful enough of the hazards in my own driveway, when I "kissed" the blade of my plow with the front corner of my car.....

And, then suddenly the back glass didn't seem like such a priority any more! So, rather than a visit to the glass shop, it was a visit to the body shop. $5,500 later....!

I bought 720# of sand bags at the local Lowe's, threw them in the back of Old Yeller, and now I'm using that trusty beast as my DD until I get the car situation resolved. I quickly found out that my nineteen-year-old tires really need to be replaced (yeah, we got a 4" snowfall that night after nearly four months of NOTHING), but apparently 9.50x16.5"LT tires are a *very* rare commodity these days.

Now the question is, what is the best way to proceed with this little conundrum (on all fronts)? /sigh

stickguy · March 2016

Don't live in Alaska.

Problem solved.

stickguy · March 2016

Andre, there seem to be no shortage of used 2014 and 2015 Chargers around. I think the 15 updates look a lot sharper. Assuming you can live with the V6, prices aren't seeming too bad. You got the Hemi in the truck. Do you really need 2? Or I guess 3, if you count the Desoto!

Speaking of which, ever get that back from its refresh?

stever · March 2016

Bummer @xwesx. Fix it, trade it and then road trip the new(er) one.

ab348 · March 2016

The 2010-up Lacrosse is a really nice car, @andre1969 . I might want to avoid the 2010 year since it came with the 3.0 V-6 which got replaced by the 3.6 in subsequent years. Tons of back seat room at the expense of trunk space, which some find tight. I liked how they drove in test runs.

tjc78 · March 2016

@andre1969
We like similar cars and I've driven/owned most of the current offerings. IMO if you are going newer the LaCrosse is a really nice choice. I would recommend a CXS or if newer a PIII / Touring as the front suspension is a bit different and handles 300hp through the front wheels a little better. The new Impala and XTS are both very similar to the Lacrosse.

Previous generation Avalon like the one Stick posted is probably the closest thing to your Park Ave. I have nothing but good things to say about the 06 I had.

We talked about the Lucerne in the other forum, not a bad car but certainly an older design, as is its fancier cousin the DTS.

Im not much of a Mopar fan but the Charger/300 are nice cars and at least are RWD. The Pentastar V6 is probably all you would need. They are pretty roomy but visibility is just ok (the Lacrosse isn't that great either to be honest).

Just my .02. Good luck with the search. We will all help you to spend your money!!

corvette · March 2016

stickguy said:
dang. Good stuff moves quick! Saw this incoming a few days ago, and pictures just showed up today.

Meh, it's an XLS. No backup camera or parking sensors. Nice Michelin tires, but some curb rash on the wheels.

andre1969 said:
Well, it looks like I'm back in the fray.

Check out the W-body Impalas, especially the last year or two where they had the new 3.6 liter OHC V6 and six-speed auto. I'm sure you can get a used one cheap. The older ones with the 3.5 and 3.9 liter V6s aren't bad either. No modern ICE/tech features on any of them, though.

xwesx said:

Then, I went down to Palmer with my daughter on the first weekend of March. We brought some stuff back with us, which shifted while driving, and I didn't think about this after opening the rear hatch.... but I sure realized my mistake as soon as I shut the door!

I nearly did something similar with the hatch glass on my Yukon a few days ago. Left it open and got it caught in the garage door. I have no idea why it didn't break, but it didn't. That doesn't look like $5,500 of body damage on the Forester, though?!?

tjc78 · March 2016

The W body Impalas aren't they roomy inside for their exterior dimensions, however, the 3.6 in there must be pretty quick.

The XLS Avalon also gives up cooled seats and keyless start, it does have NAV which mean JBL audio most likely.

berri · March 2016

Big sedans are really cold right now, so the timing should be good if you decide to go for it. The new Avalon is nice, but tight on headroom, particularly with a sunroof. But it shouldn't give you much trouble. The new Impala and Lacrosse are nice too (a new Lacrosse is coming in 2017). Might want to compare new versus slightly used because I think there are some decent incentives on new right now.

suydam · March 2016

One or 2 year old ones are incredibly cheap.

xwesx · March 2016

corvette said:
I nearly did something similar with the hatch glass on my Yukon a few days ago. Left it open and got it caught in the garage door. I have no idea why it didn't break, but it didn't. That doesn't look like $5,500 of body damage on the Forester, though?!?

Yeah, I was completely incredulous about that one for a few minutes; I just couldn't wrap my head around what had just happened. I mean, this is something that I do all the time (closing the rear hatch), and have done literally hundreds upon hundreds of times with all sorts of loads (or not) in the back. And, now, suddenly, the parameters were all muddled up. It was surreal. LOL

Damage estimate - I was shocked, but then I really battered the poor thing. The photo I posted doesn't do it justice, considering the damage to all the armature/structure on that corner of the car. I damaged something in the wheel assembly (maybe tie rod, but I think something like the wheel or spindle), the support structure for the radiator, the A/C cooler, all sorts of stuff got shoved around. I am a little stunned that it was so brutalized, but I guess that's what a solid chunk of immovable steel will do to a car.

Steve, your suggestion isn't far away from my thought process right now. I'm feeling a little timid about this car at the moment (even though it's all my fault, mostly), and I only paid $3,500 for it in the first place! I'm sorta hoping to push another car buy off for another year though. I'd still like to get a 2015 Flex off lease, I think, and next year will be a better time in terms of selection/price.

stever · March 2016

Don't know if I mentioned it but my sister recently hit a concrete base of some sort with her new Crosstrek as she was leaving a parking lot and really, really damaged her ego.

About $800 bucks worth of repair to the front right bumper. And she has this (bad) habit of hopping in and fastening her seatbelt as she drives off. Yep, belt wasn't secured and she banged her head on the windshield pretty good and was amazed that she didn't crack it (the windshield...).

This is the same sister that backed into my rental minivan some years back at a good rate of speed. Par for the course.

She's the reason the NHTSA and the IIHS came out today making automatic braking standard equipment in most new cars by 2022. (Detroit News)

My Seward bud wants an override switch - he's afraid his truck will keep stopping and won't let him get out of his driveway after the plow comes through and berms him in.

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