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Can VW Overtake Toyota and GM To Become #1?

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't think the Washington $15 per hour goes into effect until 2021. They have a convoluted MW. Depending on the size of the company. Still as low as $9.67 per hour, based on the CPI. Some parts of Seattle are more than others. No where can you buy or think about buying a home on MW. I worked 17 years before I could afford to buy a home.

    If you work for VW in the USA, I would not suggest buying a home. You may have to let it go back and lose your Down payment. In fact I would say our economy could topple any time, so buying a new car or house is shaky.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Well, they did it...

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw-takes-global-sales-lead-from-toyota-91603.html
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    gagrice said:

    I don't think the Washington $15 per hour goes into effect until 2021. They have a convoluted MW. Depending on the size of the company. Still as low as $9.67 per hour, based on the CPI. Some parts of Seattle are more than others. No where can you buy or think about buying a home on MW. I worked 17 years before I could afford to buy a home.

    If you work for VW in the USA, I would not suggest buying a home. You may have to let it go back and lose your Down payment. In fact I would say our economy could topple any time, so buying a new car or house is shaky.

    Unfortunately, minimum wage earners often can't even afford rent payments after buying food and other necessities, and are frequently evicted. Something like one in eight low income people get evicted per year. That's really sad. Some are in these circumstances due to situations beyond their control, while others make bad choices.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,407
    edited April 2016
    Home prices are insane in any decent area near employment centers here - there's a lot of speculation, and of course, the entire housing industry is hilariously coddled and subsidized. I don't know anyone I consider in my age group who has purchased a detached house near where I work without family help. Vancouver is much worse, where money laundering is a not too guarded secret and price to income ratios are lunacy.

    This area is very attractive to offshore money, just like Vancouver. When no questions are asked, I don't see that changing. High prices will be around as far as I can imagine. This is a good place to work, but will likely not so much to retire, unless one is lucky.

    The MW stuff is interesting, but by the time it is fully enacted, inflation will make $15 worth a bit less than it is now, especially if housing and food costs continue to increase. It won't be a legit complaint area for older people who don't understand how little it buys today, and how it will be the equivalent of the MW they earned in 1969. Of course, they deserved it then, same for cheaper education and housing when they were starting out.

    And I am very amused that VW retook the sales crown, even with dieselgate still being kind of a tire fire.



    hpmctorque said:



    I recently read that home prices and rents have risen considerably more than the national average in the Pacific Northwest, including Vancouver, making housing unaffordable or straining the budgets of more people than just a few years ago. The new $15 minimum wage will help the working poor a little, but will hardly solve this problem. The result will probably be that fewer people will relocate to your area, and some will be forced to move to cities that are more affordable.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    US numbers forecast for April is out.

    April Car Sales Continue Record-Setting Pace in 2016
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Company executives said they still saw the United States as a growth market for Volkswagen, despite the enormous damage to the carmaker’s image.

    “We do see a lot of potential, though of course not in the short term,” Herbert Diess, the executive in charge of Volkswagen brand cars, said during the news conference. “We are starting from zero.”

    VW Chief ‘Personally’ Apologized to President Obama in Plea for Mercy (NY Times)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Next time, VW, don't put your intentions into a POWER POINT presentation.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Will the net cover everyone by the time the NOx settles to earth?

    Mitsubishi has admitted that it cheated on emissions standards tests for a quarter of a century, and it admits that this affected 600,000 cars, but the company says that the cheating cars were only sold to Japanese people.

    Prediction: the company will admit that the number of cars is much bigger, and effects far more countries than Japan.

    http://boingboing.net/2016/04/26/mitsubishis-dieselgate-chea.html?utm_source=moreatbb&utm_medium=nextpost&utm_campaign=nextpostthumbnails
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Next time, VW, don't put your intentions into a POWER POINT presentation.

    I didn't watch the hour long presentation. I did get a kick out of those geeks trying to get the video monitor working. And the comment about someone insisting on using an Apple Mac. I feel the same way about Mac Nuts.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Be careful what you wish for.

    "With many journalists assuming that Volkswagen AG’s sales would drown in the wake of dieselgate, going under along with the company’s sullied reputation, swaths of the world media succumbed to a serious case of confirmation bias. Quite the opposite is true: Volkswagen stands every chance to fulfill its biggest corporation-wide dream: VW might finish the year as the world’s largest automaker.

    If Volkswagen ends the year as World’s Largest Automaker, it will also close the books on a year of huge losses, while then number two Toyota would be busy counting all the money it made."

    So Much For Dieselgate: Outselling Toyota, Volkswagen Is World's Largest Automaker In First 4 Months (Forbes)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Profits or market share? They don't seem to go together anymore since maybe way back when GM had half the market here.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I guess it depends on whether you want bragging rights on the tote board or moolah in your pocket.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't recall that the automotive press was predicting the demise of VW, but rather the demise of the diesel passenger car in America---and that prediction still has to play out one way or the other.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    After the Beetle, VW seemed to always have problems in the US market. Perhaps some of that was product, but I think a lot was their dealerships.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    VW needs to look back and learn what they were doing right in 2012...

    Toyota sold 9.7 million cars and trucks last year, compared to GM’s 9.29 million and VW’s 9.1 million. But if you’re wondering which carmaker is the biggest, most powerful company in the industry, it’s no contest: Volkswagen.

    VW made $28.6 billion profit on $254 billion in revenues in 2012, and its assets were worth $408 billion.

    Overall, Volkswagen ranks 14th on the Forbes Global 2000, with Toyota at No. 31 and GM at No. 70. For more on VW’s strategy to rule the world, read Forbes’ cover story here.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2013/04/18/vw-is-already-the-worlds-leading-automaker/#6463a0102188
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Crime pays, lol.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hasn't it always? B)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Consideration and purchase intent of VW vehicles on Edmunds.com last month were both down from August, before the scandal broke, and just above the 12-month lows seen in the first quarter. The average VW diesel at auction sold for $10,674 in May, down from a pre-scandal average of $13,196 last August, according to Kelley Blue Book.

    [B]etween 10 and 15 customers each month are exiting leases without leasing or buying a new VW, compared with one or two a month last year, including both gasoline and diesel customers.

    “More than anything, they just don’t seem to have as much interest in the brand that we’ve seen before,” Emich said. “The TDI thing has given them a reason to shop elsewhere.”

    With TDI toxic, VW customers are moving on (AutoWeek)



  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited June 2016
    I read recently that VW is looking at possibly cutting some models globally to reflect all of this. Sad that like GM and Toyota before them, VW is learning the hard way what happens when marketing gets too far ahead of financial and sometimes even ethical discipline. The goal of #1 is often not really worth the cost. But VW has Audi and Porsche, they will be alright long term and like their predecessors burned pursuing the global #1, likely better companies after learning this lesson.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    [B]etween 10 and 15 customers each month are exiting leases without leasing or buying a new VW, compared with one or two a month last year, including both gasoline and diesel customers.


    Well Duh.... If I could not get another VW TDI, I would not buy from VW either. Who wants a stinkin' gas powered vehicle once you have owned a diesel??? They do have reason to be miffed because VW has put a cloud over diesels. I think VW is still the top selling brand in the World.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Forbes has a damning story today (thanks @ruking1)

    "Up until yesterday, Volkswagen was relatively unimpressed by the possible dieselgate fallout. The legal problems in the U.S. seem to go away at a cost of a few billions. The EU emission rules are written so porously that Volkswagen appears to be getting away with nothing more than a big recall. Now suddenly, the charges against Volkswagen’s board signal a much bigger bloodletting in Europe.

    According to German law, market manipulation is punishable with jail time of up to five years. The regulator signaled that it may let the Volkswagen board get away with a hefty fine. However, shareholders have already sued Volkswagen for billions. Based on a conviction, their chances for a big payout would rise dramatically. “For the first time, Volkswagen’s existence is in peril,” writes Germany’s Welt."

    Emphasis mine.

    Dieselgate: The End Is Nigh, If Not For Volkswagen, Then At Least For Diesel
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2016
    Oh, today is the annual meeting and the small shareholders aren't happy.

    "The stock has plunged 50 percent, market share keeps shrinking and diesel engines which long have been portrayed as the savior are just a big bluff," Hocker said.

    Volkswagen owners close ranks as investors vent fury over crisis (Reuters)

    Haven't seen any comments from GM or Toyota. :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I hate to say I told you so, but.........actually I didn't predict the demise of the entire company, only the death of the VW diesel market in America, and that VW owners and shareholders would remain furious. So far, this seems to be unfolding.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The big shareholders are perfectly fine with the management of the company.

    Of course, the big shareholders are also pretty much the managers .
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Oh, today is the annual meeting and the small shareholders aren't happy.

    "The stock has plunged 50 percent, market share keeps shrinking and diesel engines which long have been portrayed as the savior are just a big bluff," Hocker said.

    Volkswagen owners close ranks as investors vent fury over crisis (Reuters)

    Haven't seen any comments from GM or Toyota. :)

    That was sour grapes by a small investor with a big mouth. I bought in at $23 and am very happy sitting close to $30. It will be a sad day if it destroys the diesel market. It will mean the Oil companies win. They have to hate seeing big diesel SUVs getting 30 MPG when they could be selling twice as much gas with most big gas powered SUVs. By the way their stock is only down 20% from the Dieselgate announcement.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The cracking always makes me wonder - if the refineries make more gas, they pretty much have to make more diesel. The drillers may sell the same amount either way.

    The diesel/gas dichotomy is probably insignificant compared to the effect on crude volume sold divvied between ICE and hybrids cars.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would say it is a balancing act at best with the oil producers. It also has a lot to do with the crude oil source. I don't think the oil companies would be pleased if the US had the same percentage of diesel vehicles as the EU. I can hear the screaming now, when gas goes back up to 4 bucks a gallon. The gas guzzling PU trucks and SUVs have been selling like crazy the last year.

    Then I have to think about the possibility of moving to Hawaii. No MB or VW dealers on the Big Island. Only BMW which would be problematic for warranty work. Then diesel is a LOT more expensive in Hawaii now. So maybe just buy a used beater PU truck and leave the luxury in CA.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2016
    Best get a Kia - fewer problems than anyone. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I actually took a test drive in the Kia Soul a year or so ago. For beating around Hilo probably be a good grocery hauler. Probably lean more to a Forester.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The AWD would come in handy for trips up to Mauna Kea....
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    Best get a Kia - fewer problems than anyone. :)

    I'm not so sure about that:

    https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/kia.htm
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, sure, Kia doesn't participate in their corporate greenwashing program. :p

    "ConsumerAffairs “creates biased and negative portrayals of companies that don’t pay for its service called ConsumerAffairs for Brands." Wikipedia
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,407
    Isn't engine failure in 2010+ Optima (and Sonata) a known thing?

    JDP is also a pay to play setup, isn't it?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You have to pay for their data, but I don't think you can buy your ranking.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,407
    But maybe if you pay well some data leans in your favor?

    I am always skeptical of the type of stuff where a customer's inability to program a radio becomes a "quality" issue.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Design is an issue JD Powers rates. If you can't figure out how to turn the radio on, that's a problem.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,407
    Design as in aesthetics or functionality? And does the average consumer know different? Too many risks of subjectivity.

    But who's problem, that's the question. Everything shouldn't be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. I also remember the cases of SUVs being scored down for poor mpg. Really.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    The AWD would come in handy for trips up to Mauna Kea....

    More importantly the sandy roads going down to the beach at South point. All those years I spent in Kona I never drove up Mauna Kea. They don't let you look through the telescopes. So what else is up there. I'd rather be snorkling.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Snowboarding of course.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited June 2016
    It'll be interesting to see...

    1. What percentage of owners sell their TDIs back to Volkswagen.

    2, Whether VW gets a repair approved by the EPA.

    3. What VW will do with the cars it repurchases, assuming it gets approval on a repair. I'd hate to see all those cars get scrapped. Auto production pollutes a lot too, and these cars are already on the road.

    Do you agree that the settlement is reasonable, in terms of fairness to TDI owners and punishment to VW?

    http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diesel-scandal/heres-how-much-diesel-vw-owners-may-get-their-cars
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,105
    edited June 2016
    Here's what'll happen to the buy-backed cars. Unless a fix is approved and applied, they have to be scrapped.
    http://jalopnik.com/heres-what-will-happen-to-the-thousands-of-diesels-volk-1782815084
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited June 2016
    Well they'll just end up the same way they would have ended up in 10 years anyway. Let's call it the "pre-salvage option".
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    texases said:

    Here's what'll happen to the buy-backed cars. Unless a fix is approved and applied, they have to be scrapped.
    http://jalopnik.com/heres-what-will-happen-to-the-thousands-of-diesels-volk-1782815084

    Will be most interesting to see what percentage sell back to VW, if they cannot get another diesel? I doubt most are in states that require smog check to license. The Buy Back is probably the best solution for the owners if they don't plan to keep the car till it is totally worn out. I remember trying to sell a 49 state GMC PU in CA. They wanted to discount it a bunch for not having CA compliant emissions. I sold it in AK and made money.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think that will depend on whether their cars can be fixed with software or if they would require some clunky mechanical fixes. Also, even after repairs, they're going to take a hit on MPG.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    gagrice said:

    stever said:

    The AWD would come in handy for trips up to Mauna Kea....

    More importantly the sandy roads going down to the beach at South point. All those years I spent in Kona I never drove up Mauna Kea. They don't let you look through the telescopes. So what else is up there. I'd rather be snorkling.
    I have been up there twice. Once at night to view the stars through telescopes provided at the visitor's center and the other time , I drove up there to watch the sunrise. Most heavenly sunrise I have ever seen.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    I would never return back TDIs if I had owned one. I do not consider them any more polluting then the Lithium based electric cars.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    One TDI owner's opinions on the buy back offer...

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20160629/BLOG06/160629821/for-one-vw-owner-satisfaction-wont-come-easy

    I think he's being greedy, as do several of those who responded to this article.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,407
    The reply from"Madlock" on that article sums it up for me.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    From n article in today's Automotive News...

    Sadly, the cars that VW buys back will likely be crushed. When you consider the resources and energy it took to build the cars and ship them here and the energy it will take to destroy, dispose and recycle the metal, plastic and other parts, it’s such a massive waste."

    I agree. I suspect the regulators had a one track mind, and didn't consider these issues.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,407
    Well, when you can't get fired, and are both offended at being tricked and have a head swimming in greenie do-gooder mantra, funny things can happen. But not ha-ha funny.
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