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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Any predictions on what % of the PVF will post with services like Ube/Lyft, etc? http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkiley5/2016/08/16/why-gm-wants-to-takeover-lyft-and-lyft-is-saying-no/?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix&yptr=yahoo#6471369b4751
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,917
    henryn said:

    If they would sell it (the Passat) with the 2.0T, I would already own one. We bought one in 2008, and wanted another one in 2012. Did not exist, so we didn't buy. Still can't buy one. And the 1.8T is NOT comparable.

    I've seen a lot of Passat Wagon's with the 2.0T lately. That must be one nice and fun ride! At least for those of us that appreciate a nice wagon.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    VW vs GM article. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-vw-deep-crisis-gm-145232288.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    And the wackos EV no cons want to put everything on the electrical grid? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/lights-inevitable-failure-us-grid-230000502.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2016
    Not me, I'd love to off the electric grid. Talk about a weak link in national security.

    Well, that was a typo, meant to say I'd love to be off the grid. But the messed up version works too. ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    It's great to both imagine using whatever kWh you want to use at no rate prices!! But truly that is what they really fear!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2016
    Wyoming is taxing the wind. (LA Times) The rest of the country will be taxing the sun soon, whether you are on the grid or not. At least you can collect rainwater for personal use in Colorado now.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking said:
    Here's another easy one. In South Lake Tahoe, CA, burning a wood fireplace in a older home (you know,including you lucky generation mantra housing) is grandfathered in.

    My sister moved back to So Lake Tahoe. She was gone close to 15 years. The Duplex she lived in became available and she jumped at the chance to get out of Redding that she hated. Her neighbor in the Duplex has been there 39 years. Has worked at Harveys all these years. Now to the point. On our visit I noticed the wood stove that kept the place cozy warm in the Winter was gone and just the brick surround was left. Mary next door still has her wood stove, as it is grandfathered. The owners had to pull out the one in my sister's unit when the last tenants moved out. The funny part is Obama paid 30% of my Wood stove insert. Most of my neighbors supplement their propane heat with plentiful wood alternative.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    VW should follow GM's lead after it buys back my 2009 Jetta TDI for more than I paid new. ;)https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-judge-tosses-gm-ignition-switch-lawsuit-202619435--finance.html?nhp=1
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    gagrice said:

    ruking said:
    Here's another easy one. In South Lake Tahoe, CA, burning a wood fireplace in a older home (you know,including you lucky generation mantra housing) is grandfathered in.

    My sister moved back to So Lake Tahoe. She was gone close to 15 years. The Duplex she lived in became available and she jumped at the chance to get out of Redding that she hated. Her neighbor in the Duplex has been there 39 years. Has worked at Harveys all these years. Now to the point. On our visit I noticed the wood stove that kept the place cozy warm in the Winter was gone and just the brick surround was left. Mary next door still has her wood stove, as it is grandfathered. The owners had to pull out the one in my sister's unit when the last tenants moved out. The funny part is Obama paid 30% of my Wood stove insert. Most of my neighbors supplement their propane heat with plentiful wood alternative.

    The various fed, state, county, regional, city regulatory agencies in the Tahoe area have been largely mismanaging the policies affecting the build up of flammable tree & National Forest wastes: resulting in huge largely uncontrollable area conflagrations.. Much of this misguided actions were done under the guise of global warming climate change. Large area conflagrations made it brutally apparent that many of the policies were totally ineffectual, to PC: miss guided! One example: Much of the dead fuel was left in place in the forests & private properties. Almost all seem surprised when small fires almost instantly get out of control & literally take off running!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2016
    Blame Smokey the Bear and everyone who wants to live in his back yard. (NPR)

    Norway denies report that it plans to ban sale of all petrol, diesel engine cars (indiatimes.com)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    We got a slew of coyotes that can do better in urban area eating pets et al!! :D

    My Norwegian friends DO get that distinct impression! I just tell them the follow the American political model: deny the truth and blame it on some other party!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,401
    Norway is heavily reliant on trucking to deliver goods to distant locations - look at it on a map, it's long. That's a funny story. Of course, as elsewhere, commercials and heavier vehicles are held to a different standard, to ensure the better halves of business owners can still select a Range Rover with all options, and have a house of a minimum size. It'll trickle down, just wait.

    The GM story is amusing too. They didn't fool any self-important feds, so it's OK.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,102
    Well, being able to buy cheap goods at the box stores, grocery stores, etc. benefits more than the 'better halves'.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    I think it is time to confront the business diesel transportation issue head-on. IF diesel emissions from business type diesel transportation are truly the boogie man it is made out to be, it truly should have been attacked from the get go: say generations ago: even before automobiles!! The fact that it hasn't really been, has indicated it is the proverbial "smokescreen" Am I being vague ! ? It is NOT the boogie man it is made out to be ! If it was, why should any self-respecting eco con take a plane ride? Or even eat "organic" food not delivered by a EV, hybrid truck? :D I mean really, they could insist on the organic food delivered for only them by the farms by marathon training volunteers /slaves to a central gathering point. Then EV, hybrid delivery trucks to the farmers markets couldn't they?

    Tsk,Tsk burning a campfire camping with a Tesla!? @ Lake Tahoe, CA no less!! If that campfire is not photoshopped, I'm 99.9% sure the campfire is illegal !! http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-tesla-camper-mode/
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,102
    Trucks are putting out much less soot than before. I never see it on my freeway trips, was common 20 years ago.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,401
    But different standards for commercials and heavy vehicles are to be "business friendly", not for the common good. It's about profit margins. And we won't even get into shipping pollution, which is for all intents and purposes, unregulated and uncontrolled. It's not to help actual people. Not to mention, unintended externalities which appear benevolent are often not always so.

    Most ecos I know of are fairly hypocritical. Shoebox apartment and a bicycle or bus pass for thee, private vehicle and a nice house bought for nothing, for me.

    Look at the rigs delivering materials to any local money laundering land development project, and you'll probably see a real smokescreen.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Well, yes & no! Diesels are designed to last 30 years, as a minimum! So one operative question is: which will of course vary, how many miles per year are put on diesel trucks?

    I hear & have seen re adds that it costs app $3,400 for that (shoebox) apt you mentioned in San Francisco, CA. But here is the readers digest graph . https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-san-francisco-rent-trends

    Lol, you've been watching too many Hollywood movies about NYC Mafia/Union cement contracts! ;) Hey Vinnie, where's the next job site?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,401
    edited August 2016
    I doubt most smokers I see out on the road are even 15 years old. They are just poorly maintained, and have few controls. Of course they have a lot of miles, but I have seen miled up diesel cars, when properly maintained, not cast a smoke pall, too.

    SF rents are lunacy, but then you have a contingent of old greenies who bought in 35 years ago and paid pennies, but would never give it up to support what they preach. The rents don't detract from the better thee than me ethos of the ecos. A significant amount of real estate sales in my area are to offshore cash buyers, who are now also playing the commercial and multi-unit residential game. A lot of this gold is flowing in from areas not always exactly on the up and up. It's Vancouver junior, not mafia stuff (well not domestic mafia, anyway).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Truthfully, I see hardly any to zero diesel smokers in a 75 miles radius of downtown SF. I truly see more to almost all gas smokers. Port of Oakland & SFO are of course can be different story's . I hang around neither. We do have refineries further up the road that flare off natural gas app 24/7.

    Diesel smokers might have seen other diesel smokers escaping your way and followed them up ! :D

    Most of all those so called "old greenies" are actually from all over, aka, places like...where you live. ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2016
    fintail said:

    SF rents are lunacy, but then you have a contingent of old greenies who bought in 35 years ago and paid pennies, but would never give it up to support what they preach.

    I first went out to SF in 1969 to visit someone renting, iirc, in the Mission District. Rents were nuts 47 years ago too and I even noticed that with all the other culture shock I was experiencing that week. (What the heck was a lid, anyway?)

    BMW Diesel Models Still Delayed Despite Approval from Regulators     (autoguide.com)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Back in the day (1956 past 1969) , the Mission District was down right affordable! :D

    As we used to say, keep a lid on it. ;)

    So are there any doubts they have been out to kill diesel?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I wish. B)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,401
    I see plenty of diesel smokers here, either a compensating coal rolling bro in a lifted truck, or more often, a heavy truck, usually related to construction or hauling. I recall seeing a dump truck not long ago that left a smoke pall that stuck around for awhile after the truck drove by. Barely any smoker diesel cars here, as the ancient VWs and MBs have mostly aged out of the fleet, and the domestic diesel cars were gone ages ago. Gas smokers are rare too, usually something ancient burning oil, or a VW/Audi 1.8/2.0T which are sometimes seem with black smoke and soot on the bumper.

    I suspect the BMW issue is internal.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    CNN articles ( probably more left leaning than right ) hybrid gasser take on a VERY popular gasser variant. http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/17/autos/toyota-rav4-hybrid-review/index.html

    Now a 2.1 L T TDI with 7/9 speed, 369# ft torque, would "PUMP it UP!" But that's my take. It also illustrates what I've said in the past posts. Long story short : advantage diesel !
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    fintail said:

    Willfully be negligent to save a few bucks and cost many lives - fines.

    finny, that's self-contradictory. By definition, negligence is not willful. Pretty sure the court called the 'events' you refer to as *negligence*, not willful, not intentional.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Then, it would look like the "I know NUTTING! " is the best defense.https://youtu.be/UmzsWxPLIOo

    Of course today's PC update would be a woman, mom, young grandma!
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    stever said:

    Not sure that people really care that much about torque, and torque will be ample in the new EVs coming down the pike. Too little too late?

    We the stickshift torque people really like torque. And we like torque to continue after we drive 400 miles and refuel in 5 minutes and then drive another 400 miles. We think most EVs are absurd boring fashion statements driven by poseurs and sold at at loss by manufacturers and creating more toxic pollution than gassers & diesels.

    We the stickshift torque people look forward to considering future diesels from non-cheating manufacturers, like GM! Especially if any of them have manual transmission, and if fuel prices increase to the point where mpg becomes more important again.

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Amen to that!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    edited August 2016
    ruking1 said:

    I think it is time to confront the business diesel transportation issue head-on. IF diesel emissions from business type diesel transportation are truly the boogie man it is made out to be, it truly should have been attacked from the get go: say generations ago: even before automobiles!! The fact that it hasn't really been, has indicated it is the proverbial "smokescreen" Am I being vague ! ? It is NOT the boogie man it is made out to be ! If it was, why should any self-respecting eco con take a plane ride? Or even eat "organic" food not delivered by a EV, hybrid truck? :D I mean really, they could insist on the organic food delivered for only them by the farms by marathon training volunteers /slaves to a central gathering point. Then EV, hybrid delivery trucks to the farmers markets couldn't they?

    Tsk,Tsk burning a campfire camping with a Tesla!? @ Lake Tahoe, CA no less!! If that campfire is not photoshopped, I'm 99.9% sure the campfire is illegal !! http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-tesla-camper-mode/

    A Tesla with camping mode would be perfect for the homeless. Maybe a good ride for a college student on a budget. Perfect for when your wife kicks you out of the house, or get snowed in unexpectedly up in the mountains. A sleepover in the back yard. Unexpected visitors. Ice fishing shack. A SUGAR SHACK. I could go on.

    I wonder if you could run your house on it during those pesky blackouts.

    I am beginning to like this idea !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Back in the day, we hypothesized shipping containers (that they load ont ships) would make great housing with proper outfitting as you indicate. They are simple to move around with a diesel fork lift! :'(
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2016
    Except the wooden floors in them are zapped with tons of nasty insecticides, fungicides, and exposed to other chemicals that make NOx seem downright tame. Okay for storage but you wouldn't want longer term exposure.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,102
    There's a show on converting the storage units into housing. LOTS of modifications required, including new floors.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    edited August 2016
    With all this going for Tesla, they should come out with a purpose built camper model. Sink, stove, bathroom, the whole kaboddle.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,917
    elias said:

    fintail said:

    Willfully be negligent to save a few bucks and cost many lives - fines.

    finny, that's self-contradictory. By definition, negligence is not willful. Pretty sure the court called the 'events' you refer to as *negligence*, not willful, not intentional.

    For instance, I could hire a landscaper to perform brain surgery, but wouldn't that be willful negligence on my part? I didn't intentionally want my landscaper to kill people, I was hoping he'd perform the surgeries successfully.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    fintail said:

    SF rents are lunacy, but then you have a contingent of old greenies who bought in 35 years ago and paid pennies, but would never give it up to support what they preach.

    I first went out to SF in 1969 to visit someone renting, iirc, in the Mission District. Rents were nuts 47 years ago too and I even noticed that with all the other culture shock I was experiencing that week. (What the heck was a lid, anyway?)

    BMW Diesel Models Still Delayed Despite Approval from Regulators     (autoguide.com)
    BMW is showing the loss of diesels in sales numbers. Mercedes is kicking their butt this year. After getting beat by BMW last year. Lexus is catching up and may have passed BMW.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Except the wooden floors in them are zapped with tons of nasty insecticides, fungicides, and exposed to other chemicals that make NOx seem downright tame. Okay for storage but you wouldn't want longer term exposure.

    I bought a near perfect 20' storage container and have it all set up with shelves. I always wondered why no spiders of webs. I don't hang out in there so not too worried. It cost me $2100 delivered and saves me $1700 per year. I paid for a storage 20 years before I bought this great container.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    MB has so crashed it's "staid" image ! I sure hope that they sell more than 1.5% of diesels!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    MB has so crashed it's "staid" image ! I sure hope that they sell more than 1.5% of diesels!

    If not for SUV/CUV sales none of the luxo barge companies would have anything to brag about. It is the retiring Boomers that have kept the market going the last several years. Caddy would be a footnote without SUV sales.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,401
    What I maybe should have said is feigned negligence - they knew it, but claim they didn't. Courts tend to fall for a lot of stories.
    elias said:

    fintail said:

    Willfully be negligent to save a few bucks and cost many lives - fines.

    finny, that's self-contradictory. By definition, negligence is not willful. Pretty sure the court called the 'events' you refer to as *negligence*, not willful, not intentional.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited August 2016
    Well you all may want to look harder at the Diesel vs Gas vs EV GHG comparisons. Unless you power your EV with some renewable source you are likely doing more environmental damage than driving a diesel powered vehicle.

    Under the European energy grid, EVs outperformed ICEVs by about 20% for gasoline ICEVs and 10% for diesel powered ICEVs in GHG footprint. For a natural gas dominated energy grid, EVs still outperformed gasoline ICEVs by 12%, but broke even with diesel ICEVs. In the case of a coal-dominated energy, however, EVs actually increased GHG emission by 17% when compared to ICEVs and 27% for diesel ICEVs

    http://berc.berkeley.edu/is-the-electric-car-really-helping-the-environment/
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    First of all "GO BEARS" ! B)

    We've been saying all along, the EV narratives are mostly hoopla. It's nice finally to get someone to show the numbers! The bang for the buck calculations make absolutely no sense to switch to EV. Perhaps the numbers have been so well hidden because they realize that the numbers blow the myth!! ??

    Switching topics: Oops!...Lucy, You have sum explaining to do! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/porsche-drivers-fume-where-vw-100013048.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,401
    Funniest thing, in a reactionary greenie-dominated place like Germany, coal is still the primary energy source. Maybe their diesels aren't so evil after all. And I am sure those numbers don't account for battery pollution either, the scary subject that few greenies wish to examine.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Germany is SO many (light) years ahead of the US (proportionately of course) in the "greenie conversion that it is like the US Olympic basketball team playing against a middle school (6 to 8th grade) team! It makes the comparison almost totally silly. So for thr US to get totally silly with VW is beyond the pale, especially given what others, like GM, Ford, Chysler, etc thave done ! (proportionately of course)!

    Add to that the very wide ranging costs for the Afganistan war!

    The Chinese now seem to be the defacto franchisee to mine for minerals key to the US EV infrastructure! Diesel infrastructure was not the driver here.
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-82-000-flee-california-fires-authorities-034915654.html?ref=gs

    In the meantime, the Eco neo cons barely have a response to both the uncontrolled emissions like what this article describes, and Eco neo con policies which normally contribute ( massive fuel build up) to conflagrations like these... almost every year!! Indeed the Eco neo con policies make iout of control fires almost inevitable. .https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-82-000-flee-california-fires-authorities-034915654.html?ref=gs

    Eco neo cons are so frightened, they can't even talk about the 900 # gorilla in the room & @ the table!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    In "other" news, U.S. government, Harley-Davidson settle illegal emissions devices lawsuit. (Reuters)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,102
    edited August 2016
    No sympathy here, I've always found many motorcycle riders' "we shouldn't have to meet pollution (or noise) rules" attitude disturbing.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    stever said:

    In "other" news, U.S. government, Harley-Davidson settle illegal emissions devices lawsuit. (Reuters)

    $ 12 m vs 15 B ? (similar proportions of course!) VW is paying WAY too much! :@ Note that there is no estimated death toll due to illegal gas emissions!

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Well here's one of America's top companies that's not bringing it's coal moneies back into the USA? http://www.wsj.com/articles/ge-wants-to-bring-more-life-to-coal-1471453593
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,401
    Those estimated death tolls for the VW cheat are tenuous at best.

    In WA anyway, motorcycles don't need emissions testing - ever - and I suspect this is the case everywhere, even in California. I think I've read motorcycles pollute on average 10x more than a typical car. Easy to cheat there, just remove the usually basic emissions gadgets (which I think still allow them to emit much more than a car) on newer bikes, and you're good to go. You can usually smell them.

    Come to think of it, I think diesels also don't need testing in WA either - and we know it's not just VW playing with those laws (coal rolling bro-trucks).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2016
    Those VW " death fiqures are totally bogus!

    Well as I & Gagrice have said in the past posts, CA does NOT test for diesel emissions numbers! However they require a biannual... "stop in" . In fact when I first got the 2003 Jetta TDI diesel's were exempt. In later years, they got extremely greedy. They reinstated the biannual... "stop in". Most importantl is the cash removal procedure.
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