Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stevedebi · November 2016

nyccarguy said:
Hey @stevedebi! Congrats on the punch & welcome to the Subaru owner's club here on CCBA (me, @Michaell, & @tyguy). If you have any questions about the car, ask away. I've got 2 + years & over 41K miles under my Legacy belt. What model did you get? What motor?

Outback Premium, with the EyeSight package. Great deal and 1.9 APR. We got the 2.5L engine. The dealer didn't even have the larger engine - but it is going to be driven a lot and we would have opted for the 2.5 anyway. We got cloth seats rather than leather.

I had not driven a Subaru since around 2003, and was pleased at how much they have refined the engine. It is much smoother.

I did hesitate because of service, but there is a closer dealer here in town. The folks I bought from are my favorite dealer (Galpin), and we drove 15 miles to see their larger selection.

We went to the LA Auto show and drove a number of cars. It came down to the Honda HRV (no lumbar support), the Subaru, and a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid (had a bad experience with Toyota and won't give them our business - but she considered it for a while).

suydam · November 2016

If you've got a good service department it's a good vehicle to have. Congrats on the purchase!

corvette · November 2016

170k miles on the van? If it's not totaled, take the repair check and sell it to someone as-is. State Auto doesn't take rental costs into account in determining whether to total, but they are awful, so other carriers may be different.

Michaell · November 2016

nyccarguy said:
Hey @stevedebi! Congrats on the punch & welcome to the Subaru owner's club here on CCBA (me, @Michaell, & @tyguy). If you have any questions about the car, ask away. I've got 2 + years & over 41K miles under my Legacy belt. What model did you get? What motor?

Outback 3.6R Limited for us, with Eyesight. About 17,000 miles in 21 months, and the wife loves it. She and my step-daughter alternate driving responsibilities (they work at the same place), which helps keep the miles off.

We've been seeing 20-22 MPG around town, and on the one road trip we took to Sedona, AZ, we saw almost 28 for the 2000 mile trip. Phenomenal range - 450 miles, easy, on the highway.

breld · November 2016

Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December. So, in the meantime, I'm turning in the keys to the Audi for this:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021145/uploads/editor/al/shyup2iplnj2.jpg

Michaell · November 2016

breld said:
Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December. So, in the meantime, I'm turning in the keys to the Audi for this:

Congrats! Sharp looking - I know how much you liked the one we saw at the Denver Auto Show last spring.

And, with the sale of the old house pending, you'll free up some budget money.

My money is on either a Q7 or CX-9 next year when the Sedona goes back.

nyccarguy · November 2016

@breld - congrats on the 328xi GC punch! I dig the white! Bravo! You never cease to amaze me. Pocketing $9K is a pretty sweet deal too. Congrats on unloading the house too. I know a few people who had to pay double mortgages not too long ago. Very tough. You never recover that money either, no matter how hard you try.

28firefighter · November 2016

Congrats @breld! Though admittedly I'm sorry to see the SQ5 go.

breld · November 2016

28firefighter said:

Congrats @breld! Though admittedly I'm sorry to see the SQ5 go.

Thanks! I'll have my moments of sorrow too here and there, no doubt, but that will be mitigated by the 4-series in the garage!

nyccarguy · November 2016

@stevedebi - very nice! My Legacy is a 2.5i Premium as well. It is a good value for the money. A little on the pokey side, but the suspension is well tuned. AWD is fantastic. I really like the CVT a lot. It makes good use of the engine's power band. Good luck with the Outback & make sure you keep checking in here.

breld · November 2016

nyccarguy said:

@breld - congrats on the 328xi GC punch! I dig the white! Bravo! You never cease to amaze me. Pocketing $9K is a pretty sweet deal too. Congrats on unloading the house too. I know a few people who had to pay double mortgages not too long ago. Very tough. You never recover that money either, no matter how hard you try.

Thanks @nyccarguy! "Downgrading" to a less expensive car is really nice when it's something you like at least as much!

And yes, we've had three months of double mortgages, but are on track to close in less than 2 weeks. Not fun at all.

breld · November 2016

Michaell said:

Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December.
Congrats! Sharp looking - I know how much you liked the one we saw at the Denver Auto Show last spring. And, with the sale of the old house pending, you'll free up some budget money. My money is on either a Q7 or CX-9 next year when the Sedona goes back.

You're probably right on the SUV next year. I'll also consider a used XC90 or maybe an X5, though the third row in the bmw is pretty laughable.

breld · November 2016

By the way, you all will get a kick out of this.

I had a "squirrel" moment as I was browsing their lot while they were getting paperwork done.

Saw a CPO 2014 640i xdrive gran coupe, and thought, "Hmmm..."

Asked a little about it, but came to my senses. Would've been more of a straight swap on the SQ5, for a car with almost 40k miles, though it was a CPO.

Michaell · November 2016

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:
Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December.
Congrats! Sharp looking - I know how much you liked the one we saw at the Denver Auto Show last spring.

And, with the sale of the old house pending, you'll free up some budget money.

My money is on either a Q7 or CX-9 next year when the Sedona goes back.

You're probably right on the SUV next year. I'll also consider a used XC90 or maybe an X5, though the third row in the bmw is pretty laughable.

You've already had the X5; gotta get something different.

stickguy · November 2016

Michaell said:

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:
Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December.
Congrats! Sharp looking - I know how much you liked the one we saw at the Denver Auto Show last spring.

And, with the sale of the old house pending, you'll free up some budget money.

My money is on either a Q7 or CX-9 next year when the Sedona goes back.

You're probably right on the SUV next year. I'll also consider a used XC90 or maybe an X5, though the third row in the bmw is pretty laughable.

You've already had the X5; gotta get something different.

if that is the criteria, he is going to run out of options real soon.

corvette · November 2016

Congratulations, stevedebi and breld!

Also, breld, Achievement Unlocked: Six cars in a calendar year!
(He did four in 2012 and five in 2013, 2014, and 2015, so the frequency is slowly increasing.) If I ever win the lottery, I might be able to keep up with his family!

houdini1 · November 2016

breld said:
Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December. So, in the meantime, I'm turning in the keys to the Audi for this:

I saw one just like yours at a neighbors house yesterday while walking the dog (real dog, not a yoyo). It is one sharp looking car in photos, but even better in real life. Awesome, congrats.

Michaell · November 2016

stickguy said:

Michaell said:

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:
Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December.
Congrats! Sharp looking - I know how much you liked the one we saw at the Denver Auto Show last spring.

And, with the sale of the old house pending, you'll free up some budget money.

My money is on either a Q7 or CX-9 next year when the Sedona goes back.

You're probably right on the SUV next year. I'll also consider a used XC90 or maybe an X5, though the third row in the bmw is pretty laughable.
You've already had the X5; gotta get something different.

if that is the criteria, he is going to run out of options real soon.

I believe he's had multiple 3- and 5-series, plus a couple of GTIs. Been through most of the Audi lineup (S3, S4, A5 and the SQ5, plus the possibility of a Q7 next year). Guess MB doesn't make anything worth his while.

Go, @breld ! You're our hero!

qbrozen · November 2016

When I (of all people) think "this dude's got a problem," it is noteworthy.

ab348 · November 2016

What is @breld 's profession? I assume he is a politician of some sort based upon the way he spends money.

breld · November 2016

Well, ironically enough, I'm an accountant (CPA)!

breld · November 2016

qbrozen said:
When I (of all people) think "this dude's got a problem," it is noteworthy.

Yeah - I know, I know. I'm beyond attempting any justification for my actions.

I suppose I just need to stop "looking at cars casually." Inevitably, something comes up that's a good deal on a car I have "on the list."

breld · November 2016

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Michaell said:

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:
Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December.
Congrats! Sharp looking - I know how much you liked the one we saw at the Denver Auto Show last spring.

And, with the sale of the old house pending, you'll free up some budget money.

My money is on either a Q7 or CX-9 next year when the Sedona goes back.

You're probably right on the SUV next year. I'll also consider a used XC90 or maybe an X5, though the third row in the bmw is pretty laughable.
You've already had the X5; gotta get something different.
if that is the criteria, he is going to run out of options real soon.

I believe he's had multiple 3- and 5-series, plus a couple of GTIs. Been through most of the Audi lineup (S3, S4, A5 and the SQ5, plus the possibility of a Q7 next year). Guess MB doesn't make anything worth his while.

Go, @breld ! You're our hero!

"Hero"? That's certainly a nice euphemism!

And by the way, as for Audis, you forgot the short-lived TT (from Chicago) and the A3 for my step-daughter.

breld · November 2016

corvette said:
Congratulations, stevedebi and breld!

Also, breld, Achievement Unlocked: Six cars in a calendar year!
(He did four in 2012 and five in 2013, 2014, and 2015, so the frequency is slowly increasing.) If I ever win the lottery, I might be able to keep up with his family!

Ooof! How is it at the beginning of each year, I think, "This is the year we slow down on car purchases"?

To @stickguy's point, that does include one for the VW arbitrage deal, so maybe that doesn't really count?

suydam · November 2016

And to think I've been dithering over buying ONE car for 4 months now.

Michaell · November 2016

breld said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Michaell said:

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:
Alright - transitioning from the RWTV thread...

Recognizing how crazy it sounds, I'm doing the trade. Love the SQ5, but the opportunity to get into this 428 for such a good deal won out. Getting into a car I'll love as well and "getting back" around a bit over $9,000 in the process doesn't hurt.

As always, advice from Q helped - knowing the trade offer AND the selling price on the BMW were BOTH around auction price made it easy to move forward with doing it.

In all likelihood, I'll be getting back into a larger SUV when we turn the Sedona in when the lease is up next December.
Congrats! Sharp looking - I know how much you liked the one we saw at the Denver Auto Show last spring.

And, with the sale of the old house pending, you'll free up some budget money.

My money is on either a Q7 or CX-9 next year when the Sedona goes back.

You're probably right on the SUV next year. I'll also consider a used XC90 or maybe an X5, though the third row in the bmw is pretty laughable.
You've already had the X5; gotta get something different.
if that is the criteria, he is going to run out of options real soon.
I believe he's had multiple 3- and 5-series, plus a couple of GTIs. Been through most of the Audi lineup (S3, S4, A5 and the SQ5, plus the possibility of a Q7 next year). Guess MB doesn't make anything worth his while.

Go, @breld ! You're our hero!

"Hero"? That's certainly a nice euphemism!

And by the way, as for Audis, you forgot the short-lived TT (from Chicago) and the A3 for my step-daughter.

Bother. I did forget about those.

My sister is getting serious about a car for kid #2 - she got a quote from CarMax for her '06 Navigator with 157,000 miles.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2016

Now that I've retired from compulsive car buying (a habit I never regretted nurturing I might add), I regard breld as a new generation of up and coming keepers of the flame.

Perhaps he will aspire to this level of greatness?

corvette · November 2016

The LeMay collection is awesome, as is the (swankier) America's Car Museum in Tacoma. I visited both this summer.

ab348 · November 2016

LeMay had it worse than @breld . LeMay bought but seldom sold. At least our boy keeps turning them over.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2016

That's just a more enlightened form of compulsion. LeMay only had half the equation.

akangl · November 2016

I beat my record.....the Explorer has now become the car I've kept the longest since I started driving 23 years ago. It has just over 62k on it and other than a couple minor hiccups its been a great car. In just a few days I will have owned it for 40 months.....

mjfloyd1 · November 2016

breld said:

corvette said:
Congratulations, stevedebi and breld!

Also, breld, Achievement Unlocked: Six cars in a calendar year!
(He did four in 2012 and five in 2013, 2014, and 2015, so the frequency is slowly increasing.) If I ever win the lottery, I might be able to keep up with his family!

Ooof! How is it at the beginning of each year, I think, "This is the year we slow down on car purchases"?

To @stickguy's point, that does include one for the VW arbitrage deal, so maybe that doesn't really count?

I didn't realize that BMW has 2 levels of CPO. This 2015 428 GC was advertised with a 5 yr / 75K mileage CPO.

breld · November 2016

Yup, it's the "Elite" CPO level that is for newer models with low mileage. I think the goal is to still give the new buyer a similar length of warranty between the original bumper to bumper and the extension as an older vehicle with the 2 year extension. I suppose providing an extra 2 years of warranty on an almost new car wasn't worth the cost?

graphicguy · November 2016

Breld....beautiful car. Congrats!

corvette · November 2016

Watching The Grand Tour on Amazon... Does anyone else wish they would play "Fascination Street" by The Cure as the intro to the Conversation Street segment?

stickguy · November 2016

some CPOs, depending on the age/miles, the extra warranty barely comes into play. I like the one that just extends original BtoB out 2 extra years or 100K total. That seems useful. even though on a lot of the brands the CPO overlaps the powertain piece, so is not nearly as valuable as it seems at first.

breld · November 2016

And, of course, the extra warranty is all academic for me.

roadburner · November 2016

breld said:
Yup, it's the "Elite" CPO level that is for newer models with low mileage. I think the goal is to still give the new buyer a similar length of warranty between the original bumper to bumper and the extension as an older vehicle with the 2 year extension. I suppose providing an extra 2 years of warranty on an almost new car wasn't worth the cost?

I think that's it- although it's confusing at best when you have to explain that the Elite CPO warranty period is actually shorter than the regular CPO warranty. My 2er was two years old and luckily fot me I got the CPO warranty rather than the Elite.
And congrats on the car- the GC is my favorite of ALL the 3ers and 4ers. Our sales manager has a 435i GC with the Track Handling Package and a Dinan exhaust; it sounds positively sinister when it fires up- and it pops and burbles when you lift off the gas. I love it.

breld · November 2016

Thanks @roadburner - a 435i GC with the track handling package would be a monster. I certainly wouldn't turn that down! But all things considered, very happy with the deal I got on this 428i.

My salesperson was a real BMW enthusiast (much like yourself) and suggested some basic $300 Dinan upgrade? I'm aware of these things but not very knowledgable - is something like that worthwhile?

roadburner · November 2016

Dinan does have a relatively low-priced piggyback tuner, and I've heard it works pretty well. The downside is that it doesn't have the Dinan warranty that covers issues that BMW might not cover because of the tune. So if you were to have a problem and BMW did enough digging into the ECU there's a real chance any repair work would be on your dime.

stever · November 2016

Since invoice hasn't been a real number for a while now, what with all the hidden incentives and rebates to the dealers, I've been playing around with percentages off MSRP as a benchmark.

My neighbor the car dealer tells me that the average deal is anywhere from 8% to 12% off MSRP. For slow moving models, the percentage can jump to 15 to 20%. He sells domestics.

Someone (@kyfdx?) mentioned a time or two that a good percentage off for BMWs was 5%.

What I'd like to hear from you experts is whether this is a legit way to try to get a good target price and if so, what kind of ranges the average consumer should aim for.

Thanks for the help!

qbrozen · November 2016

Attempting to get more info on this.

It doesn't mention Nav, which I really wanted, nor does it mention the around-view monitor. I sent an email to inquire. Even with those missing, and the unfortunate dark interior, I may still be interested due to the ridiculously low miles.

Michaell · November 2016

stever said:
Since invoice hasn't been a real number for a while now, what with all the hidden incentives and rebates to the dealers, I've been playing around with percentages off MSRP as a benchmark.

My neighbor the car dealer tells me that the average deal is anywhere from 8% to 12% off MSRP. For slow moving models, the percentage can jump to 15 to 20%. He sells domestics.

Someone (@kyfdx?) mentioned a time or two that a good percentage off for BMWs was 5%.

What I'd like to hear from you experts is whether this is a legit way to try to get a good target price and if so, what kind of ranges the average consumer should aim for.

Thanks for the help!

I'll chime in.

Historically, for BMW, we've suggested a target price of 5-7% off MSRP, before applying any incentives. For Audi, 4-6% off MSRP before incentives. MB is a bit of a wildcard, as there seems to be way more 'hidden' dealer cash than we can comprehend - we'll see deals, even on new models, of > 10% off MSRP, but we don't have a specific target discount to shoot for.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2016

The car is at All American Ford in Oldbridge. Says backup camera, leather, heated seats, blah blah but no NAV mentioned.

: (888) 693-3019

Carfax is good.

qbrozen · November 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
The car is at All American Ford in Oldbridge. Says backup camera, leather, heated seats, blah blah but no NAV mentioned.

: (888) 693-3019

Carfax is good.

yeah, everything looks ok. And they just got it in pretty recently. I think the heated seats, bluetooth, and backup cam come standard on the Journey model, which this one is. Nav, Around-view, and upgraded stereo are optional.

kyfdx · November 2016

stever said:
Since invoice hasn't been a real number for a while now, what with all the hidden incentives and rebates to the dealers, I've been playing around with percentages off MSRP as a benchmark.

My neighbor the car dealer tells me that the average deal is anywhere from 8% to 12% off MSRP. For slow moving models, the percentage can jump to 15 to 20%. He sells domestics.

Someone (@kyfdx?) mentioned a time or two that a good percentage off for BMWs was 5%.

What I'd like to hear from you experts is whether this is a legit way to try to get a good target price and if so, what kind of ranges the average consumer should aim for.

Thanks for the help!

BMW dealer invoice is around 7% off MSRP.

I shoot for 7% off, then subtract any current incentives. That won't always get it done, but it's what I'm shooting for.

stever · November 2016

Thanks!

Anyone else have any buying strategies? (are you there @bobst?

)

stickguy · November 2016

Low miles. Car fax is as skimpy as they come.

qbrozen · November 2016

tough call... thinking if I am going to settle for a color combo I am not fond of, maybe for $3k more, I should get this one that is 2 years newer, only a few more miles, and at least has the Nav, not to mention the 7-speed. I know Nav isn't a big deal in an outdated car, but the system in these has live traffic updates, and the around-view monitor is cool, too.

nyccarguy · November 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:
The car is at All American Ford in Oldbridge. Says backup camera, leather, heated seats, blah blah but no NAV mentioned.

: (888) 693-3019

Carfax is good.

You should hear their SCREAMER ADS on the radio! ALL AMERICAN FORD. UNDERNEATH THE GIANT AMERICAN FLAG...

Very close to Raceway Park in Englishtown, NJ.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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