Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100 · March 2017

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:
About the flimsy door hinges.....it was actually friend who noticed how thin they were when I had the door open. I was quite surprised. The A4 passes the same safety tests as other cars. Just a guess, but they probably make them thin 1)to cut back on weight, and 2) because they use the same one's on a Jetta. VW is smart that way.

Door hinge 2013 A4

(part on left)

Mercedes 2013 upper right door hinge

2013 BMW 328

This was very hard to do and I am not sure I got the right parts. I remember when my friend pointed out the thin hinge in the A4 and I compared it to my BMW 535 and it was pretty thin looking. I just checked the C250 and it looks like the picture.....pretty substantial in comparison.
They all look pretty much the same to me, except for color, etc. I don't see anything that would even remotely affect a buying decision. In fact, I can't recall even looking at a door hinge before.

Plumber got here early and $140. later, all is well ! Pretty cheap and easy fix for him.

I wasn't going to try and print them because they look similar in pictures, but, they are very different in real life. The Audi one shown is more of a close up, so looks larger and thicker than it is. It is actually longer than the others and is very thin.

cdnpinhead · March 2017

I'm betting that the car will be crushed before @graphicguy gets his car back

I'm betting that the souls of everyone who continues to follow this train wreck will be crushed by the end of it all.

driver100 · March 2017

Ab, I believe you are leasing your ATS. What are you planning on doing when the lease comes up? I know you haven't had a problem and you like your car a lot.

I don't know if one persons problem car is enough to influence other people. I think it has to be something that affects you pretty directly, like your own car or a family member, maybe close friend, before it would influence somebodies buying decision.

roadburner · March 2017

jmonroe said:

I'm sure our resident BMW Genius can give us the straight skinny.

jmonroe

This article explains how BMW's Advanced Real Time Traffic Information(ARTTI) works. The short version is that BMW gets traffic information from Inrix- a company that aggregates data from literally millions of sources. However, BMW "uses a technology known as TPEG, an instrument panel protocol for delivering traffic and travel information to a vehicle and that’s tied to the vehicle’s location — and is also much quicker."

graphicguy · March 2017

andres3 said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

3 months, engine out of car ... really, what more needs to be said?
Maybe the engine being out of the car explains why it drove so badly when they gave it back to him.
I wonder if @graphicguy confirmed they put HIS engine back in! Maybe the bad driving experience was from them putting in an old Cavalier engine just lying around the yard.

Not so far fetched that I won't go to the dealership service dept to take a look....LOL!

graphicguy · March 2017

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

And he really did have FIRE!
That seems unlikely. Given it involved the start/stop circuitry I can't even figure out how it drove to the dealer originally given the alleged fire. And I don't recall anyone being an eyewitness to it. Maybe the dealer set it on fire to get a bigger warranty claim payment.

Nothing "alleged" about it. I saw/smelled it.

I have no idea if it's related to the "stop/start" feature.

andres3 · March 2017

driver100 said:
Ab, I believe you are leasing your ATS. What are you planning on doing when the lease comes up? I know you haven't had a problem and you like your car a lot.

I don't know if one persons problem car is enough to influence other people. I think it has to be something that affects you pretty directly, like your own car or a family member, maybe close friend, before it would influence somebodies buying decision.

I think I trust one forum poster's honest posts enough to sway my buying decisions. Of course, whether or not that changes my buying decision has more to do with if their anecdotal experience matches that of the statistical data provided by CR, or not.

In other words, did they get the 1 bad one, or a typical experience? In the case of GG, it's 3 bad ones, in a row, consecutively. So this isn't a problem car, but problem cars.

graphicguy · March 2017

As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.

abacomike · March 2017

Got a strange call from my primary care doctor this morning who seemed a bit upset. He said my Total Cholesterol Level from yesterday's blood test was 135 which he said was very, very low. He wanted me to stop taking some medication I have been on since my heart attack 15 months ago because I need to get my cholesterol levels up.

So I called my cardiologist and am waiting to hear back from him. I sure want the cardiologist involved in making the decision to stop a medication I've been on for quite some time.

My liver enzymes are very high which means that my liver is not functioning as well as it was several months ago - which could be the reason for the lower cholesterol levels - it's the liver that produces cholesterol for the body. Another reason for the higher liver enzymes could be from this same medication because it has an effect on the liver.

That's why my primary care physician is hesitant to have the gastroenterologist put me on yet another anti viral med for Hep C - it plays havoc with the liver.

Never a dull moment - would be nice to just have a few months of living without something occurring to upset things. Can be very frustrating.

Thanks for letting me vent a little.

laurasdada · March 2017

roadburner said:

jmonroe said:

I'm sure our resident BMW Genius can give us the straight skinny.

jmonroe
This article explains how BMW's Advanced Real Time Traffic Information(ARTTI) works. The short version is that BMW gets traffic information from Inrix- a company that aggregates data from literally millions of sources. However, BMW "uses a technology known as TPEG, an instrument panel protocol for delivering traffic and travel information to a vehicle and that’s tied to the vehicle’s location — and is also much quicker."

Darn, I though there were little elves living behind the dash that announced this info. Santa told me that, he got it from the Easter Bunny.

driver100 · March 2017

graphicguy said:
As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.

GG, it doesn't seem fair in many respects, but, I think this is very normal procedure, they will have a lawyer since they are paying his salary and they are the defendant trying to defend the indefensible. No use having a mechanic or GM person, they may say something truthful, at least a lawyer knows what to say and not say.

I don't think you need a lawyer as you will just relate the details of what happened. They are using a lawyer because they have to find a way to make all this sound like normal wear and tear.

If there is any justice you should win easily. I just don't know if the whole procedure is designed so the car companies can't lose....it is sure sounding like that could be the case. But, I think a lawyer would be a waste of money at this stage..........a lawyer would be good if you weren't going to arbitration.

btw...I assume, you have to sign off and accept the opinion of this kangaroo court.

driver100 · March 2017

Mike, sorry to hear about the new roadblocks on the road to recovery. Wise talking to your cardiologist, we have to learn as much as we can and advocate for ourselves in these situations.
I am truly hoping for some satisfactory answers and/or solutions.

andres3 · March 2017

graphicguy said:
As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.

Your case is so clear-cut I'm not sure OJ's dream team of lawyers could defeat you.

jmonroe · March 2017

driver100 said:
About the flimsy door hinges.....it was actually friend who noticed how thin they were when I had the door open. I was quite surprised. The A4 passes the same safety tests as other cars. Just a guess, but they probably make them thin 1)to cut back on weight, and 2) because they use the same one's on a Jetta. VW is smart that way.

Door hinge 2013 A4

(part on left)

Mercedes 2013 upper right door hinge

2013 BMW 328

This was very hard to do and I am not sure I got the right parts. I remember when my friend pointed out the thin hinge in the A4 and I compared it to my BMW 535 and it was pretty thin looking. I just checked the C250 and it looks like the picture.....pretty substantial in comparison.

I'm back...got the furnace to work but it took some doing and a kick but it's blowing hot air now. Water, that is a looooooooong tale.

Now about those pics of the hinges. I don't mean to be too picky but that thingy you show for the Mercedes looks like a hinge support not a hinge. I don't see any pivot point on that thing. Can you do some more research for that thing?

FWIW, I don't think the Audi hinge is so flimsy. Not much difference between it and the BMW hinge.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 · March 2017

graphicguy said:
I'm another Pandora lover. Even when the manufacturer provides XM for a free trial period, I don't use it....maybe for traffic, but even there, the subscription doesn't cover that. So, I just let it lapse.

On the CTS front, finally got a call from the BBB last night. Finally, they are setting up the arbitration hearing. They said I have to bring the car to the hearing so the arbitrator can inspect it.

As I told the BBB lady....."well, I can't do that!" "Why not?". "The motor has been removed from the car and it doesn't drive".

Long silence......

BBB Lady...."when will the engine be put back in?"
Me: "Dunno....it's been going on 3 months, already".

Long silence.....

BBB Lady...."well, not sure if this is going to arbitration, maybe Cadillac will try to resolve this before hand."

Me...."that's probably best for all involved".

We'll see how long this takes from this point.

Unbelivable! Is BBB located on Pluto? Haven't they been in touch with Caddilac or at least the dealer? How could they be so in the dark about what is happening to you?

Perhaps they only hire the mentally challenged.

oldfarmer50 · March 2017

houdini1 said:
Plumbing trouble. This morning wife noticed water seeping around one of the faucets in master bath when water was turned on. Master plumber houdini takes a look. First step, shut water off under sink for offending faucet. Houdini gives knob a twist by hand, then stares in shock at the knob, which has broken off and he is holding it in his hand. Water now leaking under sink. Wife turns on heel and leaves room.

Second step, houdini panics and scampers down to basement and shuts main water valve off. This works, sort of surprising houdini. We must have 15 or 20 of those shut off valves in our house and houdini is wondering if they are all that corroded, about 10 years old and never used.

Step 3, wife still grumbling, but no cast iron skillet yet, real plumber to arrive at 2 pm.

Similar disaster. Wife plugged the toilet and it started overflowing. Screams of help alerted me. Tried turning off the shut off but was turning it the wrong way. Finally turned it off and bathroom was awash.

A bunch of towels and a plumbers helper solved the problem. No professional help needed.

Wife said I was her hero.

She knows how to butter me up.

oldfarmer50 · March 2017

abacomike said:
Got a strange call from my primary care doctor this morning who seemed a bit upset. He said my Total Cholesterol Level from yesterday's blood test was 135 which he said was very, very low. He wanted me to stop taking some medication I have been on since my heart attack 15 months ago because I need to get my cholesterol levels up.

So I called my cardiologist and am waiting to hear back from him. I sure want the cardiologist involved in making the decision to stop a medication I've been on for quite some time.

My liver enzymes are very high which means that my liver is not functioning as well as it was several months ago - which could be the reason for the lower cholesterol levels - it's the liver that produces cholesterol for the body. Another reason for the higher liver enzymes could be from this same medication because it has an effect on the liver.

That's why my primary care physician is hesitant to have the gastroenterologist put me on yet another anti viral med for Hep C - it plays havoc with the liver.

Never a dull moment - would be nice to just have a few months of living without something occurring to upset things. Can be very frustrating.

Thanks for letting me vent a little.

Are you sure your body wasn't made by Cadillac?

oldfarmer50 · March 2017

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:
As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.
GG, it doesn't seem fair in many respects, but, I think this is very normal procedure, they will have a lawyer since they are paying his salary and they are the defendant trying to defend the indefensible. No use having a mechanic or GM person, they may say something truthful, at least a lawyer knows what to say and not say.

I don't think you need a lawyer as you will just relate the details of what happened. They are using a lawyer because they have to find a way to make all this sound like normal wear and tear.

If there is any justice you should win easily. I just don't know if the whole procedure is designed so the car companies can't lose....it is sure sounding like that could be the case. But, I think a lawyer would be a waste of money at this stage..........a lawyer would be good if you weren't going to arbitration.

btw...I assume, you have to sign off and accept the opinion of this kangaroo court.

I assume the lawyer is there to ask snide questions designed to trip GG up into looking like a fool or even better to goad him into an emotional outburst so as to make him look irrational and crazy. Then if the case goes to court they can defame him with his own words.

Near the end of his life my father was in an accident and was sued. By the time depositions were given he had gotten pretty senile and was wheelchair bound. The opposing attorneys tried to ask questions which would have him seem like a dottering fool.

What they didn't realize was that dad had been an engineering consultant who testified in billion dollar court cases and even at half speed had enough left to tie these lawyers in knots.

His insurance company only settled for a small "go away" settlement years later because he had died and could no longer give testimony.

ab348 · March 2017

driver100 said:

GG, it doesn't seem fair in many respects, but, I think this is very normal procedure, they will have a lawyer since they are paying his salary and they are the defendant trying to defend the indefensible. No use having a mechanic or GM person, they may say something truthful, at least a lawyer knows what to say and not say.

I don't think you need a lawyer as you will just relate the details of what happened. They are using a lawyer because they have to find a way to make all this sound like normal wear and tear.

Let's hope it doesn't go like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTh9qpzhunE

jmonroe · March 2017

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:
As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.
Your case is so clear-cut I'm not sure OJ's dream team of lawyers could defeat you.

Wanna bet. They have been through so many cases like this or very similar to it, they know exactly what to do. For them it is a game they know they can win and do win.

I'm not saying this case can't be won in @graphicguy's favor but it will cost a LOT. They want to see how far you want to go. This could go on so long that some of us won't be here when it ends.

I hope I'm wrong and will be happy to say I was but I'm not going to put any of my money on @graphicguy getting a favorable outcome if this drags on. His best hope is a rather quick negotiation settlement from both of the players

jmonroe

ab348 · March 2017

driver100 said:
Ab, I believe you are leasing your ATS. What are you planning on doing when the lease comes up? I know you haven't had a problem and you like your car a lot.

I don't know if one persons problem car is enough to influence other people. I think it has to be something that affects you pretty directly, like your own car or a family member, maybe close friend, before it would influence somebodies buying decision.

I've already begun pondering even though a decision isn't due until the end of October. The tales I read on here really don't enter into my thinking at all. Fair to say we are not dealing with a normal situation. My car has been totally trouble free so far aside from a few recalls that have been addressed. If I decide to move on it will be some combination of uncompetitive buyout numbers and a lack of practicality with the car. I love the small size and the way it performs but the lack of passenger and cargo space is a real drawback. So I've been thinking. The idea of a compact hatch appeals to me - Golf/GTI, Cruze, or even the upcoming new Elantra GT although I find it hard to believe I'm actually considering that. If the Focus had a decent auto transmission I would have considered it too but it's out because of that. I even looked at a Toyota 86 on a lot over the last month or so but it just seems too low for me now given that a knee replacement is in my future. The other option is a CUV or course but I would need to drive one because I don't know how quick they are or how they handle. Or I may just keep the ATS if the deal is right. Who knows...

driver100 · March 2017

JM, Glad you didn't get blown up.

The pictures don't show the hinge well enough......size is wrong and some of the pictures I want to use are encrypted for some reason...like someone is going to steal them.

I will try again, all I remember is when my friend pointed out how thin the hinge was in the A4 I was surprised;
A4

C300

Mercedes is short and chunky, A4 is long and very thin metal.

driver100 · March 2017

ab348 said:

driver100 said:
Ab, I believe you are leasing your ATS. What are you planning on doing when the lease comes up? I know you haven't had a problem and you like your car a lot.

I don't know if one persons problem car is enough to influence other people. I think it has to be something that affects you pretty directly, like your own car or a family member, maybe close friend, before it would influence somebodies buying decision.
I've already begun pondering even though a decision isn't due until the end of October. The tales I read on here really don't enter into my thinking at all. Fair to say we are not dealing with a normal situation. My car has been totally trouble free so far aside from a few recalls that have been addressed. If I decide to move on it will be some combination of uncompetitive buyout numbers and a lack of practicality with the car. I love the small size and the way it performs but the lack of passenger and cargo space is a real drawback. So I've been thinking. The idea of a compact hatch appeals to me - Golf/GTI, Cruze, or even the upcoming new Elantra GT although I find it hard to believe I'm actually considering that. If the Focus had a decent auto transmission I would have considered it too but it's out because of that. I even looked at a Toyota 86 on a lot over the last month or so but it just seems too low for me now given that a knee replacement is in my future. The other option is a CUV or course but I would need to drive one because I don't know how quick they are or how they handle. Or I may just keep the ATS if the deal is right. Who knows...

That makes total sense....and you do have quite a bit of time to decide. I wonder if you would be satisfied with a Cruze, Elantra, Focus etc after having the ATS? I wonder if you would be more inclined to keep your car if you bought a larger CTS?
CUV is a little bit different. The height and upright seating is a definite advantage, driving dynamics not quite the same. But, something to consider if you want ease of entering and exiting.
A lot of people do get smaller simpler cars as they get older, maybe it just isn't as important and the older we get the more careful we have to be. Also, we probably won't be driving as much...just trips for groceries and the doctors office.

Lots to think about!

stickguy · March 2017

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:
As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.
Your case is so clear-cut I'm not sure OJ's dream team of lawyers could defeat you.
Wanna bet. They have been through so many cases like this or very similar to it, they know exactly what to do. For them it is a game they know they can win and do win.

I'm not saying this case can't be won in @graphicguy's favor but it will cost a LOT. They want to see how far you want to go. This could go on so long that some of us won't be here when it ends.

I hope I'm wrong and will be happy to say I was but I'm not going to put any of my money on @graphicguy getting a favorable outcome if this drags on. His best hope is a rather quick negotiation settlement from both of the players

jmonroe

JM, I'm the opposite in that I think the longer this goes on, the more likely GG prevails. Best as I can tell, GM knows they are in the wrong, and frankly (by the law) have no case. But their business model for this is to treat it as a war of attrition. And the BBB/Arbitration is complicit in that goal (just making the customer give up and go away). However, once you show that you have the proof, and know that you have a case, and are not going away, they will cave and put a deal on the table. Next step is going to be a lemon law lawyer filing papers, and they know if it ever got to a trial they are losing.

so they might force him to show up at the hearing, with all his proof, and once he does and proves to be in for the long haul, an offer should be on the table shortly.

why the hell they didn't just look at the big picture going into month 3, especially since they know they got skeletons in the closet here, and just make an offer to make the car and GG go away, is beyond me.

driver100 · March 2017

Stick, I agree 100%. Once somebody who was a great liar told me never admit you are wrong, if you keep denying it they will probably believe you.
GM is similar, dig in, never admit you are wrong, never give in.
If there is any justice GG should win easily, my concern is how fair is the process?
When I was considering arbitration with Audi I had the feeling if I just presented my facts in an orderly way then I would win. But, in Ontario Canada the BBB is not involved. I would have loved to go to arbitration because I felt I would win, but, at what cost? I was out $1300, but who knows when the meeting would be.....would I have to fly back from Florida?, and I would have to spend hours lining up witnesses and preparing.

GGs case is different because the amount is much more, and the car is pretty much useless as it sits in a garage. If ever there was a case when the Ohio Lemon Law should find in the consumers favor this should be it. If it isn't rigged that is!

graphicguy · March 2017

That's Cadillac/GM....never admit you're wrong. They can dig in.....so can I. Their lawyers don't scare me. I'll bring my own. I'm right. They know it. They're going to make me spend money (which they'll have to reimburse me) to prove it. I will!

qbrozen · March 2017

Personally, I think lawyers just get in my way. Have yet to have a positive experience utilizing a lawyer.

graphicguy · March 2017

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:
As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.
Your case is so clear-cut I'm not sure OJ's dream team of lawyers could defeat you.
Wanna bet. They have been through so many cases like this or very similar to it, they know exactly what to do. For them it is a game they know they can win and do win.

I'm not saying this case can't be won in @graphicguy's favor but it will cost a LOT. They want to see how far you want to go. This could go on so long that some of us won't be here when it ends.

I hope I'm wrong and will be happy to say I was but I'm not going to put any of my money on @graphicguy getting a favorable outcome if this drags on. His best hope is a rather quick negotiation settlement from both of the players

jmonroe

J....you are absolutely correct!

I can wait them out. Would love to have my purchase price back. But, I can weather this storm for as long as it takes. I'm willing to spend whatever it takes to get what I should be reimbursed for considering how poorly their car performed and how long it took them to fix it (which stilli isn't clear).

Cadillac/GM has lied to me, denied my concerns, delayed an obvious resolution.

Yeah..... I'll fight with them as long it takes, for as much as it costs....and that's before I go to social media with their BS!

stickguy · March 2017

GG, didn't you learn this the last time? As soon as they know you aren't folding and going away, they toss in their hand and resolve it?

it is personal to you. to them, it is just business, and playing the odds. And as soon as the odds are 99% that they lost, they will lose interest, pay you off, and forget all about you. Not like they care about you as a repeat or potential customer!

I probably would not have ever gotten a caddy (more for financial and fit reasons), but at this point, it is one of a very small number of brands that I won't be looking at towards the end of the year!

graphicguy · March 2017

stickguy said:
GG, didn't you learn this the last time? As soon as they know you aren't folding and going away, they toss in their hand and resolve it?

it is personal to you. to them, it is just business, and playing the odds. And as soon as the odds are 99% that they lost, they will lose interest, pay you off, and forget all about you. Not like they care about you as a repeat or potential customer!

I probably would not have ever gotten a caddy (more for financial and fit reasons), but at this point, it is one of a very small number of brands that I won't be looking at towards the end of the year!

Stick...you're smarter than I am....you're absolutely right!

jmonroe · March 2017

driver100 said:
JM, Glad you didn't get blown up.

The pictures don't show the hinge well enough......size is wrong and some of the pictures I want to use are encrypted for some reason...like someone is going to steal them.

I will try again, all I remember is when my friend pointed out how thin the hinge was in the A4 I was surprised;
A4

C300

Mercedes is short and chunky, A4 is long and very thin metal.

Thanks for doing more research but from these pics, the A4 hinge looks stronger to me than the Mercedes hinge. I'm sure they both do the job they were designed to do otherwise the doors would be drooping and binding.

jmonroe

jmonroe · March 2017

stickguy said:

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:
As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.
Your case is so clear-cut I'm not sure OJ's dream team of lawyers could defeat you.
Wanna bet. They have been through so many cases like this or very similar to it, they know exactly what to do. For them it is a game they know they can win and do win.

I'm not saying this case can't be won in @graphicguy's favor but it will cost a LOT. They want to see how far you want to go. This could go on so long that some of us won't be here when it ends.

I hope I'm wrong and will be happy to say I was but I'm not going to put any of my money on @graphicguy getting a favorable outcome if this drags on. His best hope is a rather quick negotiation settlement from both of the players

jmonroe
JM, I'm the opposite in that I think the longer this goes on, the more likely GG prevails. Best as I can tell, GM knows they are in the wrong, and frankly (by the law) have no case. But their business model for this is to treat it as a war of attrition. And the BBB/Arbitration is complicit in that goal (just making the customer give up and go away). However, once you show that you have the proof, and know that you have a case, and are not going away, they will cave and put a deal on the table. Next step is going to be a lemon law lawyer filing papers, and they know if it ever got to a trial they are losing.

so they might force him to show up at the hearing, with all his proof, and once he does and proves to be in for the long haul, an offer should be on the table shortly.

why the hell they didn't just look at the big picture going into month 3, especially since they know they got skeletons in the closet here, and just make an offer to make the car and GG go away, is beyond me.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

The point I was trying to make is they will drag it out and make @graphicguy spend more for a lawyer than he plans to spend.

Only the lawyers win when that happens. GM has them on call but the defendant has to go get one and hope he is good. Rest assured the guys GM have are good and they have been down this road before. On top of that you have to deal with the nitwit folks at the BBB.

jmonroe

driver100 · March 2017

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:
JM, Glad you didn't get blown up.

The pictures don't show the hinge well enough......size is wrong and some of the pictures I want to use are encrypted for some reason...like someone is going to steal them.

I will try again, all I remember is when my friend pointed out how thin the hinge was in the A4 I was surprised;
A4

C300

Mercedes is short and chunky, A4 is long and very thin metal.

Thanks for doing more research but from these pics, the A4 hinge looks stronger to me than the Mercedes hinge. I'm sure they both do the job they were designed to do otherwise the doors would be drooping and binding.

jmonroe

Ah, what does an engineer know?

driver100 · March 2017

stickguy said:
GG, didn't you learn this the last time? As soon as they know you aren't folding and going away, they toss in their hand and resolve it?

it is personal to you. to them, it is just business, and playing the odds. And as soon as the odds are 99% that they lost, they will lose interest, pay you off, and forget all about you. Not like they care about you as a repeat or potential customer!

I probably would not have ever gotten a caddy (more for financial and fit reasons), but at this point, it is one of a very small number of brands that I won't be looking at towards the end of the year!

GG, stick always comes through with good old common sense. It is very possible GM will throw in the towel when they see you aren't going to fold. First they will offer some kind of settlement....price you paid less useage and depreciation. If you hold out you will probably get more, but, they won't want to take the chance of going the full distance to the end....they could lose more than they would like to.

A lawyer at this point is not going to do much for you. My guess is you are better off without one at this stage. You are just the little guy with a pretty overwhelming story. You have to be really well prepared with full documentation and make your case that Cadillac has done nothing to find a solution.

I saw an ad for a lawyer who specializes in Lemon Laws in Ohio. This article/ad is worth reading. They say don't get a lawyer on contingency, they will take a good chunk of your winnings. They claim "Because we believe strongly in our service, and because we would never want to deter a consumer for fighting for their Ohio Lemon Law rights, there is no cost, win or lose, at any time whenever you work with K&S on your Ohio Lemon Law claim".

LEMON LAW OHIO

IMHO, I don't know who I would not trust more, GM or a lawyer, but it might be worth looking into a lawyer. What I would really want to know also is whether this arbitration hearing is final....they usually are because that is the point of it.

I am posting an article I am reading which is really good......next!

driver100 · March 2017

This is well worth reading and really describes what has happened in the case of GG vs. GM:

The law always allows the other party to send a response to your claim. This of course will come to you in the form of a letter from the car manufacturer. Essentially, they will deny your claim every time. They will tell you that they have reviewed your claim and are unable to do anything. This of course is their first lie. They haven't reviewed a thing. They have no idea who you are, what the problem is, or the circumstances of the case. They merely gave it a weeks to make you think they paid attention and then plunked your name into a form letter that merely says "no".

Here's the deal. Car companies put out so many problem cars that if they honored every request under lemon law, they'd go broke. So their answer is to honor none of them. They know that if they deny every claim, probably 70-80% of cases will go away at this point with most people believing that they really don't have a case. Car companies also know that if they string out the process as long as they can, the majority of the rest of the cases will also go away because:

Here's a secret. Car companies do NOT want to go to court on a lemon law case. The risk of going to court on lemon law far outweighs what they risk in doing so. Here's why:

READ THE FULL ARTICLE HERE....IT IS WELL DONE AND INFORMATIVE

I googled "what percentage of people win lemon law cases in ohio" and got some good sites to look at. It looks like going to court will take a lot of time, and it could be risky and expensive as the car maker will fight every step of the way....and they know how to play the game. GM has perfected the game plan to make it very difficult to win. When I was in business I tried to make our company operate at the max for customer satisfaction - if my customers are 100% satisfied then they will always come back....GM is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!

bwia · March 2017

Here are the rankings in JD Power’s auto dependability study

https://www.boston.com/cars/cars/2017/02/22/here-are-the-rankings-in-jd-powers-auto-dependability-study

The study measures problems per 100 vehicles based on responses from 35,186 original owners of 2014 model-year vehicles.

Here are the rankings, the problems per 100 vehicles and the number of places each brand rose or fell from the 2016 study.

I am glad to see my Buick near the top but alas Infiniti is near the bottom.

1. Lexus, 110 (0); Porsche, 110 (+1)
3. Toyota, 123 (+1)
4. Buick, 126 (-1)
5. Mercedes-Benz, 131 (+6)
6. Hyundai, 133 (+12)
7. BMW, 139 (+6)
8. Chevrolet, 142 (-2)
9. Honda, 143 (-2)
10. Jaguar, 144 (not ranked in 2016)
11. Kia, 148 (+5)
12. Lincoln, 150 (-3); Mini, 150 (+5)
14. GMC, 151 (-9)
15. Cadillac, 152 (-1)
16. Audi, 153 (-6)
17. Volvo, 154 (-2)
18. Chrysler, 159 (+3)
19. Subaru, 164 (+3)
20. Volkswagen, 164 (+4)
21. Mazda, 166 (-1)
22. Acura, 167 (-14)
23. Nissan, 170 (+3)
24. Land Rover, 178 (+4)
25. Mitsubishi, 182 (-6)
26. Ford, 183 (+4); Ram, 183 (-18)
28. Dodge, 187 (+3)
29. Infiniti, 203 (-17)
30. Jeep, 209 (-3)
31. Fiat, 298 (-6)

imidazol97 · March 2017

"GM is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!"

Does that also mean "toyota is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!"
when it came to the sludge, errrr gel, problem and the runaway acceleration problem?
We can substitute many other companies' names there for many problems that are
more recent. I think that's being a little hard on GM here. I suspect GG will be offered
a replacement vehicle. But that should have happened at about 4 weeks into the waiting. LOL

As to the lawyers winning in this. The lawyers become judges and game the system to
require people to have to use lawyers for more things. The lawyers become legislators,
local and federal, and write the legislation to require more lawyer usage. Anyone surprised
the lemon laws are written to benefit lawyers?

abacomike · March 2017

jmonroe said:

As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling.... "It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced". Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?" BBB: "To represent GM". ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney." BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is." ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM." BBB: "they usually don't tell us that." ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either" The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor. So much for impartiality.
Your case is so clear-cut I'm not sure OJ's dream team of lawyers could defeat you.
Wanna bet. They have been through so many cases like this or very similar to it, they know exactly what to do. For them it is a game they know they can win and do win. I'm not saying this case can't be won in @graphicguy's favor but it will cost a LOT. They want to see how far you want to go. This could go on so long that some of us won't be here when it ends. I hope I'm wrong and will be happy to say I was but I'm not going to put any of my money on @graphicguy getting a favorable outcome if this drags on. His best hope is a rather quick negotiation settlement from both of the players jmonroe
JM, I'm the opposite in that I think the longer this goes on, the more likely GG prevails. Best as I can tell, GM knows they are in the wrong, and frankly (by the law) have no case. But their business model for this is to treat it as a war of attrition. And the BBB/Arbitration is complicit in that goal (just making the customer give up and go away). However, once you show that you have the proof, and know that you have a case, and are not going away, they will cave and put a deal on the table. Next step is going to be a lemon law lawyer filing papers, and they know if it ever got to a trial they are losing. so they might force him to show up at the hearing, with all his proof, and once he does and proves to be in for the long haul, an offer should be on the table shortly. why the hell they didn't just look at the big picture going into month 3, especially since they know they got skeletons in the closet here, and just make an offer to make the car and GG go away, is beyond me.
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong. The point I was trying to make is they will drag it out and make @graphicguy spend more for a lawyer than he plans to spend. Only the lawyers win when that happens. GM has them on call but the defendant has to go get one and hope he is good. Rest assured the guys GM have are good and they have been down this road before. On top of that you have to deal with the nitwit folks at the BBB. jmonroe

The fact that an attorney will be present at the BBB arbitration hearing does not sound ominous to me. It could very well be that GM and/or Cadillac will be making an offer to GG which requires GG to sign legal documents including Hold Harmless Agreements, which is SOP for settling arbitration. I had to do that with Pontiac and Mercedes.

So I would not assume the worst when it could mean the end to this mess.

driver100 · March 2017

imidazol97 said:
"GM is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!"

Does that also mean "toyota is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!"
when it came to the sludge, errrr gel, problem and the runaway acceleration problem?
We can substitute many other companies' names there for many problems that are
more recent. I think that's being a little hard on GM here. I suspect GG will be offered
a replacement vehicle. But that should have happened at about 4 weeks into the waiting. LOL

As to the lawyers winning in this. The lawyers become judges and game the system to
require people to have to use lawyers for more things. The lawyers become legislators,
local and federal, and write the legislation to require more lawyer usage. Anyone surprised
the lemon laws are written to benefit lawyers?

It would be very interesting to know if some manufacturers try to settle lemon cases in a more user friendly way. From GGs experience, we can see GM is taking things to the limit, Toyota did too in the sludge and acceleration cases, but I wonder if others are as tough....it would be nice to see statistics.

driver100 · March 2017

Bwia, thanks for posting, interesting to review. I am not sure if over 3 years 120 is much different from 180 say. But, #30 is Jeep at 209, and #31 is Fiat at 298.....now that really says something!

driver100 · March 2017

"GM is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!"

My quote sounds harsh but I have seen business people with this attitude. If you are the competition they feel they should do everything in their power to eliminate you. They don't look at themselves and say how can we do better, or how can we solve this problem? They just want to get rid of you, they think that elevates them.

My attitude was bring on the competition, it only makes me look better because I have a superior product and give you better value, and I will make you 100% satisfied or you can have a full refund and find someone else to supply you...because you will never find someone better.

Harder to do with cars but in this case, there is no compromise, no looking for a satisfactory solution, it is all out war. Maybe all car companies are the same, but this one really goes to the max not to give in. It tells me they don't have confidence in their product so why would I. They can't give in for one because there are many more that will do the Lemon Law thing.

Other companies may be exactly the same....I don't know, but we know this one doesn't like to find a viable solution.

imidazol97 · March 2017

Speaking of new cars..., I had mentioned the new car smell had finally left my '14 Malibu. When I opened the door after it sits overnight, that rush of leather and new car smell was gone.

I looked for new car smell in a bottle and found it. The mirror hangers and the other new car smell scent packs often got negative reviews. But the Chemical Guys seemed to get good mention about using both scents together. . They have a new car smell and a leather scent. I noticed a package of both in spray bottles on Amazon so I ordered. On Sunday it came and I spritzed a couple squirts of both into the Malibu on the carpet and under the seat. It definitely refreshed the new car smell, but was strong. I left the windows open a couple nights in the garage and I'm back to a gentle whiff of new car smell when I open the doors.

I also found that the Macguiar's leather conditioner gold I have leaves a lingering scent somewhat like the leather scent by Chemical Guys. And I may have the only Cobalt with cloth seats that has a fresh new smell and a leather after scent.

Recommendation: use one squirt under driver's seat. Then see how much more to add after a few days.

explorerx4 · March 2017

Driver100, What is JD Power's definition of a problem?

imidazol97 · March 2017

@roadburner
What does the used car detailing service at a BMW store use to give a fresh smell to a used car
when they recondition them for sale?

oldfarmer50 · March 2017

graphicguy said:
That's Cadillac/GM....never admit you're wrong. They can dig in.....so can I. Their lawyers don't scare me. I'll bring my own. I'm right. They know it. They're going to make me spend money (which they'll have to reimburse me) to prove it. I will!

If the facts of this case are as clear as they seem I would think you could just hand this over to your lawyer and let him/her make all the hearing appointments. I mean, what possible questions could Caddy's lawyer ask that would be pertinent.

Lawyer: "Mr. GG, isn't it true that you drove this car and actually ENJOYED yourself?"

GG: "Yes...(sob)...I admit it...I liked the car a lot up until it burst into flames and the wheels fell off".

Lawyer: "Your honor Caddilac rests it's case!"

Judge: "Mr. GG I find you guilty of expecting your car to perform as advertised. Off with your head!"

oldfarmer50 · March 2017

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:
"GM is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!"

Does that also mean "toyota is like, if you aren't satisfied, we are going to bury you!"
when it came to the sludge, errrr gel, problem and the runaway acceleration problem?
We can substitute many other companies' names there for many problems that are
more recent. I think that's being a little hard on GM here. I suspect GG will be offered
a replacement vehicle. But that should have happened at about 4 weeks into the waiting. LOL

As to the lawyers winning in this. The lawyers become judges and game the system to
require people to have to use lawyers for more things. The lawyers become legislators,
local and federal, and write the legislation to require more lawyer usage. Anyone surprised
the lemon laws are written to benefit lawyers?

It would be very interesting to know if some manufacturers try to settle lemon cases in a more user friendly way. From GGs experience, we can see GM is taking things to the limit, Toyota did too in the sludge and acceleration cases, but I wonder if others are as tough....it would be nice to see statistics.

My 1980 Chrysler had a problem with paint flaking off the front after a year. Dealer told me to go pound salt. Wrote to Chrysler and they said we'll fix it. Went to the dealer and the tech told me that this was a known problem and the dealer had been fixing it right along just for the asking. Wondered why I went over their heads to Chrysler.

Sometimes the problem might just be a service manager who was having a bad day.

houdini1 · March 2017

graphicguy said:
That's Cadillac/GM....never admit you're wrong. They can dig in.....so can I. Their lawyers don't scare me. I'll bring my own. I'm right. They know it. They're going to make me spend money (which they'll have to reimburse me) to prove it. I will!

GG, you are absolutely right to have a lawyer present.

houdini1 · March 2017

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:
JM, Glad you didn't get blown up.

The pictures don't show the hinge well enough......size is wrong and some of the pictures I want to use are encrypted for some reason...like someone is going to steal them.

I will try again, all I remember is when my friend pointed out how thin the hinge was in the A4 I was surprised;
A4

C300

Mercedes is short and chunky, A4 is long and very thin metal.

Thanks for doing more research but from these pics, the A4 hinge looks stronger to me than the Mercedes hinge. I'm sure they both do the job they were designed to do otherwise the doors would be drooping and binding.

jmonroe

I agree, the screws with the mercedes hinge look awful small and flimsy. Maybe a weak link.

roadburner · March 2017

imidazol97 said:
@roadburner
What does the used car detailing service at a BMW store use to give a fresh smell to a used car
when they recondition them for sale?

I just talked with our detail man believe it or not he has a home brewed mix that he uses. Me, I'd probably go with Chemical Guys, Griot's Garage, or Meguiar's.
My all-time favorite leather care product is Zymol Treat, but it's a bit pricey.

graphicguy · March 2017

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:
@roadburner
What does the used car detailing service at a BMW store use to give a fresh smell to a used car
when they recondition them for sale?
I just talked with our detail man believe it or not he has a home brewed mix that he uses. Me, I'd probably go with Chemical Guys, Griot's Garage, or Meguiar's.
My all-time favorite leather care product is Zymol Treat, but it's a bit pricey.

2nd on the Zymol treatment. Good stuff (and yes, pricey)!

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