What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

gagrice · March 2017

Ah, gotta love those Porsches. Coming back from the desert on a windy two lane a 1950s Porsche 356 convertible came up behind me. Not wanting to stop his fun I pulled over and let him fly by at the first wide spot. I remember working with a guy that had one and having him scare the wits out of me more than once. Yes Porsche is one Sports car that has kept up the tradition. My wife said I don't need one.

Not sure how popular the Cayenne TDI was. Don't recall seeing any. Most are the Cayenne S around here. Still not nearly as popular as the X5. That seems to be the first choice of the Indian Casino moguls in my area. I see one X5 35d at the post office pretty regularly.

ruking1 · March 2017

Yes indeed! I wax nostalgic to 1974, passing up the opportunity to buy ($1,600, I think $1,400 to $1,500 would have sealed the deal) a 1964 Porsche 356C, hardtop. I never was a hard-core ragtop fan. I was in the country's service at the time in Denver, CO and was moving quite frequently. Oh the things we do for country & apple ...strudel. http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1964/Porsche/356C/2-Door-Coupe/Values I would've had to get it back to the San Francisco Bay area and garage it. (in retrospect, 5 to 20 years) SF, CA at the time had a lot of dealer and indy support.

Not that long ago, the "Cayenne" midsize CUV (VW Touareg platform) was considered "the savior" of the Porsche brand ! This inconvenient part of the brands history, of course drove the Porsche purists crazy. But it's hard to remain "pure", if the purist's "vision" had lost the car company. Even the purists now have to acknowledge VW now owns Porsche, not vice versa. But I think that is a lead in to another related diesel story.

fintail · March 2017

Porsche prices have behaved like Seattle hosing prices, relative to incomes. Just like real estate, older Porsches seem to be in a speculative bubble, too. Price out a loaded new Targa and get ready to cringe. No diesel variant yet, which would be a unique thing. MB has sold diesel convertibles, why not?

ruking1 · March 2017

Too funny! I actually learned stick shift on a Porsche Targa. It's almost scary to think that was app 50 years ago. It's interesting to know the parts are still available and the logistics relationships are in place.

In the military, they certified for a host of special purpose vehicles. One that would be seen on a civilian road, covered & uncovered tractor/trailer rigs.

Might be interesting, Piech?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/porsche-se-no-information-piechs-stake-sale-talks-111907778--sector.html

But then...?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/porsche-se-posts-profit-owner-090242525.html

ruking1 · March 2017

@ this posting, the price of oil : $47.66 USD.

Middle East OPEC clubbers can't seem to wait to "cheat" on their agreed upon "cut backs", if they've ever really were in compliance @ all ( cut back).

"Curiously" & notably, Royal Dutch (Shell) announced $10 billion USD newly committed to known (old) deep water wells.

American gasoline is too expensive! Frack on!

Remember, we only use less than 8/9% of the worlds' oil! That is with 95 to 97 % gasser PVF! It would be less than 4%, if 60% of our PVF were diesels.

Retail in Folsom, CA, ULSD is two cents cheaper than RUG! Meanwhile, Hot Dog/Polish & soda = $1.50! ?

Advantage TDI's!

ruking1 · March 2017

Electric cars ,...global warming savior? https://www.yahoo.com/news/oil-industry-doesnt-care-electric-cars-heres-why-130000618.html

2 M EV vehicles vs 1.2 B gas/diesel vehicles, world wide tells of different realities.

gagrice · March 2017

The only EV I am likely to buy is a golf cart, if I move where it is practical for running errands. I posted this for Fintail on another thread. This may be the golf cart I could like. If there is room for groceries.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/23/mercedes-designs-golf-cart-of-future-pics/

ruking1 · March 2017

It's clear to me why solar panels do NOT ring EV cars to light trucks

They should have changeable battery sources that can be plugged in or wheeled into the house/garage for charging.

ruking1 · March 2017

A $9,825 USD bonus nod to the 911, to each employee for 2016 MY Porsche's record year ...: (80,000 Macans, 73,000 Cayennes), mainly due to its CUV sales. Because #'s are worldwide, it's hard to tell how many diesels/%'s were in the batches.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/porsche-celebrating-best-history-giving-140807538.html

xwesx · March 2017

That'll build employee loyalty!

ruking1 · March 2017

On the other side, Leaf/Focus EV's free to lease? But...https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-23/californians-snub-free-evs-carmakers-say-in-mandate-push-back?ref=yfp

andres3 · March 2017

xwesx said:
That'll build employee loyalty!

I heard the 911 resulted in $9,111 dollar bonuses. Going by that method, The Audi workers in the 80's did much better than those making today's models.

Fiat workers get a decent bonus by that method. Does the Mazda Millenia count as a Mazda 1,000?

Saab workers must hold the record at a model number of 9000?

ruking1 · March 2017

I just read an article that Mazda plans to put a turbo diesel, 2.2 L 310 # ft torque into the CX -5. (Compact CUV, 3200#'s to 3,400 #'s). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_CX-5

xwesx · March 2017

Yeah, it was a real disappointment when they couldn't get their skyactiv diesel offerings sorted out to meet emissions standards without urea injection (apparently, they didn't talk to Bosch about it!). But, they've developed an injection system now, so I wonder if they'll expand offerings after getting their feet wet with the CX5. I know the CX9 could *really* use a diesel. Fuel economy on that thing is abysmal.

ruking1 · March 2017

Indeed*4 ! TDI's for the small to large SUV/CUV segments have been total no-brainers for at least 4 decades.ll Be they cylinders 4,6,8,10, ALL would have benefited from a host of factors, probably too numerous to mention.

On the subject of better or worse mpg, ( all things being equal) it will be interesting to find out which people, given a choice of better or worse MPG, ( in a 60% diesel/gasoline context) would/will choose worse!? Defacto, we already know, given the 95-97 % gasoline PVF.

So for example, (midsize CUV) me, getting 33 MPG verses 18-20 mpg....3,030 gals vs 5,263 gals

To wit, with a 95 to 97 % gasoline PVF, to conclude that the system is seriously concerned with consuming MORE, rather than less is the only logical one! It's more than easy to see that they are trying to literally wipe out the competition, aka diesel PVF. So yes, abysmal mpg (from the systems point of view) is wonderful ! ?

So for example, the system, (in my segment: compact CUV) wants me consuming 18/21 mpg premium gasoline (*274.8 M - 3-5% ULSD), rather than 36/38 mpg ULSD. Over 180,000 miles, (12 yrs. avg life of PVF) the math is overwhelmingly compelling.

When you factor in the barrel of oil yields of 19 gallons of gasoline AND 13 gallons diesel, the 95 to 97 % gasoline PVF STRUCTURALLY mandates ANOTHER 40 to 70% MORE usage! As I have pointed out in other posts, 60 % diesel fleet ( like Europe's) for no other reason will literally CRASH oil barrel demand!

Now government figures 2014 indicate that that it's over 3,000,000,000,000 miles. (3.026 TRILLION) USA. It also indicates that miles are actually stagnant to falling. The 2015 & 2016 gov.gov figures WILL bear this out.

ruking1 · March 2017

March will be the FINAL mo payment for the loan (12 TDI Touareg)

.

So another set of kudo's goes to VW A (credit, in this case) ! The real TMI is pretty wild!!!

For a lot of reasons, IF one can get a zero down, ZERO % loan, (after getting ones' best deal) I am already missing the scheme! Indeed, WHEN/IF offered again, I'd buy another property, not to mention another VW TDI with that kind of loan!

The loan was primo, even without the "diesel-gate" brouhaha!!

The bad/good news are @ this posting, the 2012 my 3.0 L TDI Touareg does not appear to rate an approved fix. The word is it will be bought back @ 09/2015 KBB $$'s, ($37,055. - $40,740, pg 7/15 executive summary), with: $1,000 GW, VW Road Assist 3 years, already in hand, Bosch penalties@ $1,500 & tbd bits that have been written in the court settlement. https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/

This is "good"

if one no longer wants &/ or needs a CUV.

ruking1 · March 2017

$40 per barrel oil? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/opec-warned-russia-battens-down-163419978.html

ruking1 · March 2017

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-permian-play-profitable-20-230000540.html

Shell, et al, is/are aiming for new wells to be profitable at $20 a barrel. How many new known wells will $ 10 B buy? That's 10 billion invested IN the US.

For each vehicle, just looking for 12 yrs + @ 180,000 miles + @ 36-45 mpg (5,000 gals, ULSD) in the future.

ruking1 · March 2017

I'd be OK with this one in a diesel! https://www.yahoo.com/tv/top-gear-dominates-lamborghini-porsche-071736147.html

On second thought a 3.0 L to 5.0 L twin turbo diesel would be absolutely wild!

I'd like her piloting anytime, around the "RING".

gagrice · March 2017

ruking1 said:
I'd be OK with this one in a diesel! https://www.yahoo.com/tv/top-gear-dominates-lamborghini-porsche-071736147.html

I wonder if Audi is still tearing up the road race circuit with diesels. They dominated for a while.

andres3 · March 2017

gagrice said:

ruking1 said:
I'd be OK with this one in a diesel! https://www.yahoo.com/tv/top-gear-dominates-lamborghini-porsche-071736147.html
I wonder if Audi is still tearing up the road race circuit with diesels. They dominated for a while.

E-Tron took over; though I don't know the details. I haven't seen the sequel to the very well done short docu-movie called "Truth in 24."

I recommend that one. I know there is a "Truth in 24 II" but last I checked Amazon would only sell an E-download version, and I want it on DVD or Blu-Ray.

ruking1 · March 2017

You-Tube might have what you seek. This go here. Disco there. It's all very simple at the end of the day.

I was reading VW used "diesel-gate" (us against them scary movie) to pull the "racing plug", aka, non-essential expenditures!?

Sort of like wearing Saville Row (custom made) tuxedos during the day during Lent; when sack cloth is more appropriate.

gagrice · March 2017

The check engine light on my VW Touareg TDI is lit no longer. VW replaced the AdBlue heater element this morning. Common failure. All under warranty that is extended for that problem. Refilled the AdBlue so I can see how many miles that takes me. Service manager thinks VW has a fix for my VW. We shall see. They topped all the fluids checked the brake pads and washed it. Shuttle driver Barry took us to the Studio Diner for breakfast and picked us up when we finished. Pleasant day getting service.

http://studiodiner.com/

ruking1 · March 2017

Life is good! This might sound goofy, but a thing of beauty and satisfaction is a car washed (which I don't have to do) with absolutely no scratches!

I think this is the "diesel calm" before the storm! IF I'm reading the schema of articles correctly, VW might be getting into ever shrinking #'s & % markets: 1. Hybrids 2. EV 3. Small cars.

So for example, 2016/2017 my sales @ 17.5 M in 2016: to less than 17 .5 M in 2017. These market entries SEEM also to be @ the precise times they might be CONTRACTING the most & fastest. Total projected PVF miles have dropped. The average miles per vehicle is dropping also. The larger cars to light truck markets are the foreseeable trends both in # & % with few VW segment offerings, sans the "Atlas". The small car market is probably south of 25% of the PVF. The additional problems are higher capital costs to develop, buy, implement & market these "new" product offerings.

Now I know the VW "diesel-gate"/EPA deal was probably hammered out pre-current administration. It's going to be an interesting 4 to 8 years (2018 to 2026 ) for VW. & VW A

VW brought capital ($7 B +) and jobs to the USA.

ruking1 · March 2017

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-29/volkswagen-says-it-has-epa-approval-to-sell-repaired-diesels?ref=yfp

Surprise ? Surprise? No!? You might have heard me say it on this site!?

kyfdx · March 2017

ruking1 said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-29/volkswagen-says-it-has-epa-approval-to-sell-repaired-diesels?ref=yfp

Surprise ? Surprise? No!? You might have heard me say it on this site!?

That's only about 15% of the total number they have to buyback, though. The vast majority of the 2.0 litre diesels can't be fixed. It's good news, though.

ruking1 · March 2017

To go from ZERO to 67,000 units more than was planned is an achievement in any auto OEM's wheel house! Looking forward even Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota would be hard-pressed to each do 67,000 more units than they planned In a year, late in a model year.

To say they (a whole movie productions worth) were not successful in getting rid of a lot of diesels would be sticking ones head in the sands (of oil)

The 67,000 units not only "primes the diesel market pump as it were. I think it goes a long way in preserving the value of diesel vehicles, on the market

The 800# gorillas/elephants parked with the liberal's limos/suburbans were the absolute dominance of American energy!" Not to leave any out like solar, wind, but that would include: nuclear, hydro, geothermal, coal, oil, natural gas, recycled energy from on going product production, molecule designer building energy. It also was the unhearalded crashing of (domestic) oil DEMAND was almost totally overlooked by the last administration These & many other issues are the most disingenuous, as they were the ones to beat the 8 year old drums on raising fuel mpg standards!!?? Defacto, to remove 40/45 mpg posting vehicles with cars posting 25/26 mpg are huge steps backwards,.... even for folks... who can't/won't count.

Not to get political, (but again) IF VW or any other auto oem either cannot or does not choose to get into American market diesels in the next four years: to a MAXIMUM of 8 years, the next (unknown/tbd) administration's attitude might take a " closing of the windows of opportunity stance, Katie, bar the doors" direction to way more daraconian measures against diesels.

fintail · March 2017

I'm just glad they won't be crushed, which would have been the most idiotic embodiment of public sector lunacy possible.

ruking1 · March 2017

Shoot the 2009's oem 8 years old paint job still BEADS water with 110,000 miles!

Leave them alone! Too much ado about not very much, already! Any diesel passenger car will fade into the boneyards at their own normal paces? ! T https://www.yahoo.com/news/modified-european-vw-diesels-undrivable-owners-133000958.html

But to muck them up? Dumb! I would swag it causes even more pollution!? One of the most car busy county's (La LA County) have more than validated most pollution to include the barely understood N0X levels to be totally exceeded already! This is regardless if they could waive their magic wand and remove all diesel passenger cars! You have to remember that LA County has jthe greatest concentrations of hybrid and EV vehicles, probably on the planet! L

andres3 · March 2017

ruking1 said:
You-Tube might have what you seek. This go here. Disco there. It's all very simple at the end of the day.

I was reading VW used "diesel-gate" (us against them scary movie) to pull the "racing plug", aka, non-essential expenditures!?

Sort of like wearing Saville Row (custom made) tuxedos during the day during Lent; when sack cloth is more appropriate.

thanks, you were right, YouTube has both Truth in 24 and Truth in 24 II. I watched the sequel last night. Good stuff, though I think the original was better.

For you diesel fans, both documentaries are about diesel powered R race cars from Audi. I do believe the latest and greatest are switching to E-power hybrid though.

ruking1 · March 2017

When E- Hybrid powered vehicles can match & exceed what Audi diesel teams did, that would tie it up!?

andres3 · March 2017

ruking1 said:
When E- Hybrid powered vehicles can match & exceed what Audi diesel teams did, that would tie it up!?

Well, I'm just speculating at this point, but I know in the 24 hour race your pit stops are almost as important as your cars speed on the track.

If you can go more laps without a pit, that's an advantage. If you can change a battery pack in less seconds than it takes to fill a diesel fuel tank even with the best pump ever built, then you have an advantage.

ruking1 · March 2017

So for discussion purposes, one ? might be what is/are the kWh consumption rate/s? The unsnap out/ snap in convenience/advantage might be totally killed by more E PIT stops.

kyfdx · March 2017

I'm acquainted with someone that races in the LeMons series (get it? lemons?).
They have some pretty severe limits on what they can spend on non-safety equipment (think $1500 for the whole car).

He races a Chevette diesel. He says most of the other cars just zoom by him, but they never have to come off the track, for fuel or anything else. It's like the tortoise and the hare. He does pretty well.

ruking1 · March 2017

I take it he races a conversion?

fintail · March 2017

Chevette diesel - that has to be bordering on sole survivor status.

ruking1 · March 2017

So crude!? http://finance.yahoo.com/video/where-oil-prices-headed-232300636.html

Fracking 2.0 ! https://www.wsj.com/articles/fracking-2-0-shale-drillers-pioneer-new-ways-to-profit-in-era-of-cheap-oil-1490894501

fintail · March 2017

I'm up in Canadaland for a few days, last readout I checked claimed 42 mpg even, not bad when diesel can be found for cheaper than RUG in these parts.

I seem to notice a lot more diesel MBs up here, they definitely sold in larger numbers relative to gassers (still the minority, but a larger one).

Michaell · March 2017

I've probably mentioned this ... in 1985 I was in my last semester of college. Was involved in an accident that totaled my 1979 Pontiac Sunbird, for which the insurance company gave me the princely sum of $2000.

Was going to use it on a new '85 Escort diesel.

Folks talked me out of it as I didn't have a job lined up after graduation.

Bullet dodged, or a missed opportunity?

kyfdx · March 2017

ruking1 said:
I take it he races a conversion?

Conversion? to what?

ruking1 · March 2017

Michaell said:
I've probably mentioned this ... in 1985 I was in my last semester of college. Was involved in an accident that totaled my 1979 Pontiac Sunbird, for which the insurance company gave me the princely sum of $2000.

Was going to use it on a new '85 Escort diesel.

Folks talked me out of it as I didn't have a job lined up after graduation.

Bullet dodged, or a missed opportunity?

There were VERY few classics made in the early to late 80s.

ruking1 · March 2017

kyfdx said:

ruking1 said:
I take it he races a conversion?
Conversion? to what?

Engine conversion from gas to diesel.

Michaell · March 2017

ruking1 said:

Michaell said:
I've probably mentioned this ... in 1985 I was in my last semester of college. Was involved in an accident that totaled my 1979 Pontiac Sunbird, for which the insurance company gave me the princely sum of $2000.

Was going to use it on a new '85 Escort diesel.

Folks talked me out of it as I didn't have a job lined up after graduation.

Bullet dodged, or a missed opportunity?
There were VERY few classics made in the early to late 80s.

Forget classic status; would that have been a mistake from a day-to-day perspective?

FWIW, after I graduated, I moved back to CA and bought a one year old '85 Accord LX hatchback for $8650.

fintail · March 2017

I think that Accord would have been a mere billion times more pleasant than an Escort diesel. I suspect most Escort diesel were also basic spec.

Back when there was still a Tempo in the family fleet, I remember going to a junkyard to find a part for it. This would have been around 1994-95. I remember there was a very clean 86 Tempo diesel in the yard, 5-speed even. Pretty rare car.

Michaell · March 2017

fintail said:
I think that Accord would have been a mere billion times more pleasant than an Escort diesel. I suspect most Escort diesel were also basic spec.

Back when there was still a Tempo in the family fleet, I remember going to a junkyard to find a part for it. This would have been around 1994-95. I remember there was a very clean 86 Tempo diesel in the yard, 5-speed even. Pretty rare car.

I think the Escort was a 5-speed. As was the Accord.

I drove the Accord for about 3 years and 40,000 miles, which included a road trip from California to Michigan and back. Best tank on that trip was around 45 MPG heading west on I-40 in NM and AZ.

ruking1 · March 2017

Michaell said:

ruking1 said:

Michaell said:
I've probably mentioned this ... in 1985 I was in my last semester of college. Was involved in an accident that totaled my 1979 Pontiac Sunbird, for which the insurance company gave me the princely sum of $2000.

Was going to use it on a new '85 Escort diesel.

Folks talked me out of it as I didn't have a job lined up after graduation.

Bullet dodged, or a missed opportunity?
There were VERY few classics made in the early to late 80s.
Forget classic status; would that have been a mistake from a day-to-day perspective?

FWIW, after I graduated, I moved back to CA and bought a one year old '85 Accord LX hatchback for $8650.

For sure, one does not need a "classic" to drive for three years and 40,000 miles, even as you selected A "classic". (advertantly or not)

So a classic is that threading of the needles betwixed/between any number of factors important to the bill payer. So for example, one factor important to me is gauging the car being able to go 3 major tunes (120,000 each tune) with no to little unscheduled maintainance.

fintail · March 2017

I'd hope all of those 80s era mainstream domestic small displacement diesels were 5 speed, as they would need anything to wring out more power. I suspect the Escort diesel wouldn't have been insanely more economical on the same drive, but it would have provided more comfort.

Michaell said:

I think the Escort was a 5-speed. As was the Accord.

I drove the Accord for about 3 years and 40,000 miles, which included a road trip from California to Michigan and back. Best tank on that trip was around 45 MPG heading west on I-40 in NM and AZ.

kyfdx · March 2017

ruking1 said:

kyfdx said:

ruking1 said:
I take it he races a conversion?
Conversion? to what?
Engine conversion from gas to diesel.

No... they actually came that way.

gagrice · April 2017

A little update to my Adblue heater replacement in the Touareg TDI. According to service this is a known defect and they replace and warrant them for an additional year 12,000 miles. Reading on the VW Touareg blog, one poster claimed he had to pay $500 to have his replaced. The dealer claimed he did not use VW DEF fluid and that caused the failure. There are many complaints just past warranty also. I bought the 4 yr 48k mile full coverage. So I was not out anything but a couple hours of my time. Many owers are not so lucky.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/02/volkswagen-tdi-owners-being-stuck-with-1000-adblue-heater-repairs-still-not-epa-compliant/

gagrice · April 2017

ruking1 said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-29/volkswagen-says-it-has-epa-approval-to-sell-repaired-diesels?ref=yfp

Surprise ? Surprise? No!? You might have heard me say it on this site!?

No it is not a surprise. I am trying to figure out which cars this includes. My guess is the 2015 Passat TDI with urea injection. Did any of the other 2.0L TDI engines have adblue injection? If I move out of CA, I wonder how much work it would be to disable the entire adblue system. It seems to be running very clean with the cheat software disabling it. One of the salesmen I talked to at VW said he thought they had EPA approval to fix my Touareg TDI. Guess we will see. Kind of hoping they miss the October deadline and are forced to buyback at near new amount. Or just give me the $11,000 and make my day.

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles