I think in truth there has been a lot of little advances. For example, I had a Hitler's revenge 1970 VW Beetle that I ran for app 250k miles on two cluthes and 3k oil changes (no oil filters) ,
The oils available in 1969-1978 were absolute crap compared to today's brews. I estimate I changed the oil 84-90 times in 250k. With the new TDI engine at 550k, I am on target to change it 37 times!!! For the same mileage 250k, I am on target to change it 17 times. Needless to say I have less waste stream.
The problem with listening to "old timers" about what worked for them is that they were used to very primitive engines that could tolerate all kinds of experimentation. They had low compression, usually vast machining clearances, and about 3 moving parts inside.
Nowadays with modern precision machinery you'd best be careful what you put into an engine, transmission or a fuel tank.
on the MMO....I have been using it for years...but do not know if it is actually working, or just extra stuff to burn ? I like it and still am working on another bottle ... :-)
maybe it is just their proprietary blend of petroleum distillates...
I used to work for an independent petroleum consultant co.....and we tested all sorts of gas and gas products....
did you know that we import a light yellow colored gas with 50 octane from China ? And all the gas companies would blend it with toluene and benzene and others to bring up the octane. They all had their own type iof injector cleaner.....and all the gas companies do transfer gasoline between their refineries....and the injector cleaners are added at the last step before delivery to end consumers.....
so it may be possible that MMO is useful , as much as any other companies' product....
BTW, all gas is traded between gas companies, and each batch is different, like any other mass produced but heterogenous product....
IMO, the engines can take a lot, as long as the residues, octane numbers, and other parameters are close.....
Hi, I just bought a couple jugs of Wal Marts full synthetic oil (for higher mileage engines). Now I know good old Sam didn't refine oil, but who makes this stuff? Is it worth the $10.47 per 5qts? I plan on using it in a high mileage jeep (215k miles!). I've always used synthetic oils, but I'm hoping not to 'find' the leaks in this engine...... we'll see.
I use the wal-mart stuff, and it seems fine so far - hard to beat the price.
Maybe the oil is cleaning up some black gunk in your engine, and it is suspended in the oil. Also what is the temp? Oil can look honey colered when hot, but near black when cold.
My Mobil1 looks just like any other used oil when it comes out, so I don't think you can judge on the color alone. Wait for your UAO numbers, and you'll know for sure if there are any issues or problems.
romanram, Even if it is hydrocracked wouldn't it be better then regular old dino oil? For $10.47 that's what I would have paid for the Castrol. They are both advertised for high mileage engines (seal conditioners I guess).
I have a new 2004 toyota 4runner with 2000 miles on it. I always change the oil on my new autos at 2000 miles(get rid of metal shavings, if there is any). Should I wait for the engine to break in a little before changing to synthetic. I do a lot of short distance stop and go driving.
You can safely swith to synthetic anytime. Many cars come from the factory with synthetic. Just make sure that you use a REAL synthetic, meaning Mobil 1, Amsoil, Redline or even CAstrol. If you use Castrol make sure you buy the German made variety (back should say made in Germany).
If you go with the other so called synthetics you get a good product but will not be able to go to extended drains (more than 5k miles).
I use Amsoil most of the time (12 to 15K between changes) or Mobil 1 (10k miles). Oil analysis has shown, depending on the tipe of vehicle, climate, driving style, sump volume, filtering, etc, that up to 25k miles is possible between changes. The most I have gone is 18k with no problem and excellent analysis results.
I am an automotive instructor at a vocational high school with over 30 years of automotive experience, todays engines DO NOT need to be broken in for 5,000 miles. What you should do is change the oil and filter at the first 1,000 miles using dino oil. When the second 1,000 miles roll around now you can use a synthetic oil. Make sure it's a good quality 100% synthetic. I myself have been using Amsoil for years with excellent results.
thank you for the help. I already have six quarts of mobil 1 5-30 and a k&n oil filter in the garage. I looked for the amsoil, but I can't find anybody who sells it around here.
I would probably buy Amsoil, but Mobil One is more commonly available. Amsoil locally sells for something like 7.20 a quart vs Mobil One at 4-5 dollars a quart.
I admit I don't know a lot about oil. So I have a question. What is the difference between the amsoil 5-30 synthetic and the 0-30 synthetic. I see that it is about $3 more per quart. Would I see any benefits in my 2004 toyota 4-runner v6 if I switched. I do a lot of short distance driving, but not a lot of off-roading. Toyota says to use 5-30 only. Someone else said I could use both.
I've seen some discussion on Wally World synthetic. Has anyone heard who is making it? Bubba at the local emporium said he thought it was Penzoil - I'm just trying to find out whether it's Mobil like syn or Castrol like syn and what the additive pack is like. Anyone ? Thanks
Click on the Mag-1 logo on the top of the page and you can get to the spec sheets. SuperTech and Sears Spectrum are identical to these. Although a tech at Warren indicated to a caller on bobistheoilguy that it was group IV, most thinking is that it's group III.
Pre-SL oils were made by Specialty Petroleum, a company that was acquired by Quaker State before that company was acquired by Pennzoil to Shell, etcetc. Although some Wally World employees believe differently since there was QS labeling on these bottles, the product was never identical to Quaker State.
Thanks all - I think I'll stick with my M1 until I get some definitive info - testing or otherwise. Price is mighty appealing but sometimes you get what you pay for.
1. They don't crack base stocks. 2. All additives (even big companies) come from a handful of companies. 3. I think they do blend their own oils, at least they have chemists, etc. on staff. In other words they're not just taking a bunch of bulk oil that doesn't sell and packaging it. 4. You're right, I doubt if they're the paragon of consistancy. In the case of Warren, their 5w30 includes moly, I don't think their 10w30 does-- or maybe it does now but didn't used to. If that bothers you I'd look elsewhere.
Wal-Mart owns the brand name, not the blending plant so the SM oil might be from a different source entirely. Again, I choose ST because I get a bottled oil changed (sort of) by people who unlike Jiffy Lube don't try to sell me a battery. There is a small chance that the bulk, name brand oil is actually old SA rated crap that the manager's brother is bootlegging. Not going to happen with Warren.
Chevron's website even advertises available base stocks they will sell to blenders.
They provide the oil, and sometimes additive packages, in bulk, the blenders package and ship it.
What most people don't know is that gasoline is pretty much the same way...according to the NY Times it is all "bulk" but with different additive packages depending on the reseller (Mobil, Chevron, Rotten Robbie etc.). There are minimum Federal standards for "cleanliness" i.e. the ability to keep injectors clean, but Chevron is supposed to be well above the minimum. Me, I use cheaper Arco but run Supertech gas cleaner through every oil change ($1.78 for the stronger stuff in the black bottle from Wally World).
Given what folks are saying; given the standards you are comfortable with, i.e., SL/SJ or in diesel CI-4, buy on price. I say this if one is not predisposed for a whole host of reasons to buy group IV PAO base oils, hydrocracked group III with the other so called designation of "synthetic" will also come within standards.
they reported that a number of "brand name" oils, Shell for one-- varied geographically in different parts of the country. It seems to me that at least one of the "big four" oils--PZ,QS,Castrol, Valvoline-- suffered from the same inconsistancy.
The big deal right now on bobistheoilguy is differentiating regular Castrol Syntec from German Castrol Syntec-- so consistancy isn't always there with any supplier.
The standards have gone from SJ to SL from 1995 to 2004. And to CI-4 for diesel. I would bet a dollar to a Krispy Kreme that the most consistent thing is probably still inconsistency:(
Has any one tried using synthetics in their automatic trans, transfer and differentials? I am thinking of using royal purple synthetics in my 2001 Pathfinder and 1998 CR-V. Any information would be helpful, thanks.
As long as the synthetics meet Nissan standards you should not have any problem. I ran all Mobil 1 Lubricants in my 1993 Pathfinder and at 140000 miles it's still going strong with a new owner. Same story for my 1999 Jeep TJ, the only exception being the Aisin-Warner MT, which calls for a proprietary synchromesh fluid.
I use royal purple in the engine of both suv's, but I would like to use synthetics fluids in the trans and the transfer case and the differentials. Is this possible.
The answer is yes. I have two vehicles in which the engine, transmission, and differential oils are synthetic. There are of course benefits and disadvantages. Benefits are usually 1. higher temperature and lower temperature resistance. 2. Higher resistance to sludging. 3. Ability to extend change intervals 4. In some cases mpg is better 5 operation is smoother
Thanks for all the replies. I have decided to use synthetic ATF, Syncromax transfer case fluid and max gear 75w90 differential oil, all synthetics. I will let you know how it works out.
What is the best oil filter to use when using 5W-30 synthetic motor oil? If there is a best, is there a independent study such as Consumer Reports that I can go to to see the proof?
Do not know which is best, but Pure One is good enough, and is easy available - for example, at Pep Boys @about $6. Pure One is a premium brand of Puralator.
Some of other filters with good reputation are Mobil 1, and premium brand of Delphi.
Frams are considered bottom of the totem pole due to their cardboard endcaps and inexpensive anti-drainback construction.
Champion Labs (Supertech at Walmart, STP and Bosch at Autozone) are considered well made.
Purolator, AC Delco, some Motoraft, WIX, Napa Gold, and Mobil 1 are considered better than average.
Generally, the manufacturer's oil filter line should be good for the manufacturer's maximum stated drain interval (5,000 for Ford, 6,000 for Chrysler/Dodge, 10,000 for VW, Honda, and Acura) but my suspicion is they are no better than the parts store oil filters. However, I believe you would be protected under the filter or car manufacturer's warranty if a car maker's oil filter failed within the maximum stated drain interval.
Keep in mind that stated drain intervals have a time component, usually one year or less, so if you aren't hitting your miles, you need a change based on time instead. I don't think time is that critical, but it does affect your warranty.
Don't go beyond the manufacturer's stated drain interval on the oil, or you lose your warranty or potential "good will" fix. Possibly Amsoil might back you up if you have a claim and are within an Amsoil extended change period, but I'd check around on the 'net before relying on that. I don't know whether the Amsoil warranty is limited to parts replacement (the bad filter) or covers damage to your engine; or even if Amsoil makes filters...
One of my car's stated drain interval (computer calculated but) is averaging 15,000 miles. One other car's stated drain interval is 10,000 miles. Both of course indicate or highly recommend synthetic oil.
Comments
The oils available in 1969-1978 were absolute crap compared to today's brews. I estimate I changed the oil 84-90 times in 250k. With the new TDI engine at 550k, I am on target to change it 37 times!!! For the same mileage 250k, I am on target to change it 17 times. Needless to say I have less waste stream.
Have they gotten that coil pack problem solved ??
Bosch is hurting lots of owners like you....
Go gettum !!!
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have to change 2 rubber bands at 100k and recalibrate!
MAF's are a known problem area but fed emissions law is good for 100k or 10 years.
Nowadays with modern precision machinery you'd best be careful what you put into an engine, transmission or a fuel tank.
My e-mail is:
mr_shiftright@edmunds.com
Please continue your talk. I'll take care of any "problems" with the board! Thanks for your support and cooperation.
Shifty the Host
on the MMO....I have been using it for years...but do not know if it is actually working, or just extra stuff to burn ? I like it and still am working on another bottle ... :-)
maybe it is just their proprietary blend of petroleum distillates...
I used to work for an independent petroleum consultant co.....and we tested all sorts of gas and gas products....
did you know that we import a light yellow colored gas with 50 octane from China ? And all the gas companies would blend it with toluene and benzene and others to bring up the octane. They all had their own type iof injector cleaner.....and all the gas companies do transfer gasoline between their refineries....and the injector cleaners are added at the last step before delivery to end consumers.....
so it may be possible that MMO is useful , as much as any other companies' product....
BTW, all gas is traded between gas companies, and each batch is different, like any other mass produced but heterogenous product....
IMO, the engines can take a lot, as long as the residues, octane numbers, and other parameters are close.....
lets give the prize to armtdm .. 1 dozen Krispy Kreme ..... :-)
OK, so lets use it ...the term...CPB
Not a new planet but it will do at my age.
I plan on using it in a high mileage jeep (215k miles!). I've always used synthetic oils, but I'm hoping not to 'find' the leaks in this engine...... we'll see.
Maybe the oil is cleaning up some black gunk in your engine, and it is suspended in the oil. Also what is the temp? Oil can look honey colered when hot, but near black when cold.
Jon
If you go with the other so called synthetics you get a good product but will not be able to go to extended drains (more than 5k miles).
I use Amsoil most of the time (12 to 15K between changes) or Mobil 1 (10k miles). Oil analysis has shown, depending on the tipe of vehicle, climate, driving style, sump volume, filtering, etc, that up to 25k miles is possible between changes. The most I have gone is 18k with no problem and excellent analysis results.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Mazda said their engines were not tested in synthetic oils.
The Mazda email reply even warns that synthetic oil may void bumper-2-bumper warranty.
Click on the Mag-1 logo on the top of the page and you can get to the spec sheets. SuperTech and Sears Spectrum are identical to these. Although a tech at Warren indicated to a caller on bobistheoilguy that it was group IV, most thinking is that it's group III.
Pre-SL oils were made by Specialty Petroleum, a company that was acquired by Quaker State before that company was acquired by Pennzoil to Shell, etcetc. Although some Wally World employees believe differently since there was QS labeling on these bottles, the product was never identical to Quaker State.
2. All additives (even big companies) come from a handful of companies.
3. I think they do blend their own oils, at least they have chemists, etc. on staff. In other words they're not just taking a bunch of bulk oil that doesn't sell and packaging it.
4. You're right, I doubt if they're the paragon of consistancy. In the case of Warren, their 5w30 includes moly, I don't think their 10w30 does-- or maybe it does now but didn't used to. If that bothers you I'd look elsewhere.
Wal-Mart owns the brand name, not the blending plant so the SM oil might be from a different source entirely. Again, I choose ST because I get a bottled oil changed (sort of) by people who unlike Jiffy Lube don't try to sell me a battery. There is a small chance that the bulk, name brand oil is actually old SA rated crap that the manager's brother is bootlegging. Not going to happen with Warren.
They provide the oil, and sometimes additive packages, in bulk, the blenders package and ship it.
What most people don't know is that gasoline is pretty much the same way...according to the NY Times it is all "bulk" but with different additive packages depending on the reseller (Mobil, Chevron, Rotten Robbie etc.). There are minimum Federal standards for "cleanliness" i.e. the ability to keep injectors clean, but Chevron is supposed to be well above the minimum. Me, I use cheaper Arco but run Supertech gas cleaner through every oil change ($1.78 for the stronger stuff in the black bottle from Wally World).
The big deal right now on bobistheoilguy is differentiating regular Castrol Syntec from German Castrol Syntec-- so consistancy isn't always there with any supplier.
I have uysed both synthetic gear oils and the ATF and IMO, they outperform the petroleum based lubricants.
One disadvantage can be the higher up front cost.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/rebates/rebate_details.asp?rebatei- d=18
Some of other filters with good reputation are Mobil 1, and premium brand of Delphi.
Champion Labs (Supertech at Walmart, STP and Bosch at Autozone) are considered well made.
Purolator, AC Delco, some Motoraft, WIX, Napa Gold, and Mobil 1 are considered better than average.
Generally, the manufacturer's oil filter line should be good for the manufacturer's maximum stated drain interval (5,000 for Ford, 6,000 for Chrysler/Dodge, 10,000 for VW, Honda, and Acura) but my suspicion is they are no better than the parts store oil filters. However, I believe you would be protected under the filter or car manufacturer's warranty if a car maker's oil filter failed within the maximum stated drain interval.
Keep in mind that stated drain intervals have a time component, usually one year or less, so if you aren't hitting your miles, you need a change based on time instead. I don't think time is that critical, but it does affect your warranty.
Don't go beyond the manufacturer's stated drain interval on the oil, or you lose your warranty or potential "good will" fix. Possibly Amsoil might back you up if you have a claim and are within an Amsoil extended change period, but I'd check around on the 'net before relying on that. I don't know whether the Amsoil warranty is limited to parts replacement (the bad filter) or covers damage to your engine; or even if Amsoil makes filters...