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Comments
My guess is that it was about time for component failure, independent of whether you used conventional, blended, synthetic group III hydrocracked or synthetic oil (PAO IV). As you know, even if done correctly; a super charger (blower) puts more stress on certain components!
Having said that, I have and will continue to use a PAO group IV, synthetic on all my vehicles.
(Mobil One 5-10w30 Delvac One 5w40, aka Mobil One Truck and SUV 5w40), i.e., three models, 4 vehicles, if that is of interest)
I also have being doing 15k oil and filter change intervals with absolutely no concerns (in over 660k miles).
Perhaps the closest engine to yours is a V8 350 CID chevy engine (LS6) This one currently is a 2001 and has app 65,000 miles. Since I do not live with a super charged vehicle, is there a cool down procedure? (like a 1-2 min idle for a turbo before shut off to prevent heat soak)
In regards to leakage, this current crop of vehicles does not leak at all! I have never once had a coolant concern, and spot UOAs confirm also. There are two I6's, Japanese, GM V8 350 high output engine, American, and a 4 banger turbo diesel 1.9, German.
It is a little cheaper than M1 so I was thinking of using it in my PT Cruiser....
But if I had to guess, I would say that the Rotella full synthetic is a hydrocracked group three. I am sure the Shell web site will dance circles around the hope that their full synthetic is truly a PAO group IV. While the verdict is still out, there are some studies that say the group III NEW blends can be as good as say group IV PAO's. My guess also on the PT cruiser is probably the coking issue due to the PT cruisers' turbos? I am sure if you look up the higher temp limits they are pretty similar between hydrocracked and PAO like Mobil One. Given that, the higher ash % of the PAO group IV appeals to me. Also the diesels' turbos runs cooler than the gasser turbos.
You point out one of the neat things about CI-4 oils being backward compatible with the gasser SL. So for example, I would not hesistate to back fill an SL oil (like Mobil One 5w-30)with the CI-4 oil (like Mobil One Truck and SUV aka Delvac One 5w40). Also vice versa I would not hesitate to use the Delvac One 5w40 as primary fill for any of my Mobil One 5w30 vehicles either.
Please note: I WOULD NOT use an SL oil like Mobil One 5W30 in the CI-4 diesel engine!!
The things that stops me are 1. 1 dollar per quart more for the Delvac 5w40, aka Mobil One Truck and SUV 2. I know for a fact that higher viscosity oils over the long term, experiences a SLIGHT loss of MPG(my experiences is .5-1 mpg) This is not truly statistically significant, but since my time horizon (10-20 years) and milege horizon is long,(250k and above) I am trying to put as many factors to work in my favor as possible.
So I do use Delvac One 5w40 aka MObil One Truck and SUV 5w40, in my TDI. (turbo diesel) My time and mileage horizon for the INXS of 10,000 hr diesel motor is 10-20 years and 500,000 -1,000,000 miles. So for me, time will tell. However, I am betting the farm so to speak on the Mobil products. Are they the best? NO! but one of the better ones that is off the shelf available etc etc! If I had a shorter time and mileage horizon than stated, I would not hesitate to use Rotella products!
The 2.5 liter engine in the standard PT Cruiser is working very hard. It's not a turbo, but it's hauling around the equivalent of early era minivan weight. I know I have to use the accelerator much harder in traffic than my so-called economy cars, and the mileage reflects that. Also it is my "weekend/summer road trip car" which puts it on the road in mid-day heat, with a family load, as opposed to early morning, early evening "cooler" commute time with just me behind the wheel.
So I have decided to give the Rotella a try in this "demanding" application and see how mileage is affected, and how the engine holds up - I usually sell my cars on a short cycle, but intend to keep the PT Cruiser up to about 80-120,000 miles. During that longer life span, I'd like to keep compression, engine cleanliness, and performance as close to new as possible.
Thanks, Ruking, for the thumbs up on Rotella. I will be using M1 0-40 (or the dealers "German" Syntec) in my VW Golf, just because that will be my "sporty" ride, driven hard, and I intend to keep it a long time.
I also stand corrected on the turbo/non turbo issue. The upshot to a non turbo is the oil is simply formulated better with the high heat of the turbos in mind! So all things being equal you would tend to coke less than if you had a turbo.
I shall give the new V8 some new oil then. What do you suggest for a 5.7 l V8 , supercharged ?
I heard its OK to use syn...in fact, one guy swears its the best in this engine....but I am not sure which kind...would the Mobil 1 that I get at costco be OK ?
Hope all is well and your Jetta TDI and TLC are all doing fine.....
The cayenne has 2 turbos, but I don't need to cool down, cause they have 2 little oil pumps that keep the oil circulating and cooling the turbos even after engine shutoff. But that sounds like too much complicated components that may go wrong. Oh well...I'll sell it in a few before warranty expires....
see ya on the forums...
I do take the cayenne back to the dealer, if needed. It just got a factory oil change and alignment..they even gave me a loaner Audi.
My main concern is whether the SUBURBAN can take synthetic oil now, since it has been 3 oil changes since new engine. Do you have anything to add to that ? I hope so.
may you and your vehicles live long and give you many years of enjoyment...
Best of luck with your 2200 mile relocation trip. Makes me think another road trip is in order.
I also don't know what to think about putting your tires' psi to 33. 15% within the max tp on the sidewall is a good place to start, given the oem sticker recommendation.
Since break in for a gasser is app 1000 miles, with 19k on the clock you are far from being early, whether you are old school or new school.
I'll try to remember to give you all an update after our move.
In my experience, moderate increase to something like 32/30 front/rear is better than what was recommended by GM. This was with the original Affinity tires; I replaced them with performance tires (Firehawk SH-30) after they wear out, and currently my tires are inflated to 35/32.
However, it depends on road conditions. We live in CT, where highways predominately are paved with asphalt. When driving on concrete, it would be better to decrease the pressure to something close to the manufacturer's recommendations. When driving on NY highways (mostly concrete), we feel every seam. Not a pleasant experience for driver and passengers, and probably not good for tires and suspension.
In my experience, it is really important to maintain the 3 psi difference in pressure between front and rear. Especially with not new tires. A technician inflated once all Affinity tires even, at about 22k miles. I did not check, and found it after the car fish-tailed. Not a pleasant experience.
The optimal tire pressure depends also on how heavy loaded is your car. The more belongings and passengers, the higher pressure. This is in theory; I have no first-hand experience. Do not change pressure when driving to beach with wife and son :-). Probably would inflate a bit before driving 2000 miles with a lot of books, tools, etc.
In short, Mobil 1 is fine for running your oil according to the indicator light, which actually doesn't know what kind of oil you are using. It is based on an algorithm taking into account number of starts per oil change interval, gas mileage, etc. Basically short drive city drivers have to change more often. GM set the algorithm based on oil tests. It is a pretty good system.
That having been said, a couple of points come to mind. First, be religious about following the owner's manual. If it says, oil indicator or 6 months, whichever comes first, go with the 6 months regardless of mileage (4,000, 5,000 etc). Second, be scrupulous about oil filters. In particlar, Frams have been bad mouthed. They are used in private label form at some oil change shops, so be careful. AC Delco filters, on the other hand, have had some outstanding reports, so feel safe just to use the Goodwrench product.
Personally, I wouldn't run even M1 past 5,000 miles, but then I drive small displacement, OHC engines. These are harder on the oil than OHV, 3.8 GM engines(unless you have the supercharger). It sounds like 7,500 miles is your personal comfort zone no matter what the indicator light says...if that is the case, go with your instincts. There is something to be said for sleeping well at night....
Thanks.
Mobil 1 is a true synthetic, engineered from the ground up and assembled from simple, non-mineral oil chemicals. Thus is has no wax in it at all, and has a naturally lower pour point than even the heavily hydro cracked, iso de-waxed mineral oils.
In other words, the 0W designation is a freebie, something extra you get based on how Mobil 1 is made. It has same high temperature characteristics (even better, actually) as the 5-40's.
I like the sound of "true synthetic", "freebie," and "no-charge extra" - sounds like a recommendation for Mobil1 - but I just wanted to ask my question clearly. Thanks.
Personally, I would buy Mobil 1. Because it is more proved oil. Additionally, Mobil does not play (yet?) with definitions of what is synthetic, i.e. does not lie in this respect.
I live in Connecticut, and our winters are mild. Do not need 0w* oil: 5w*, and even 10w* synthetic oils are good enough for me. I am buying 5w30 Mobil-1 for one of my cars and 10w30 Mobil-1 for another, year round. 0w30, 5w30, and 10w30 Mobil-1 costs the same in one quart bottles, but I am buying the oil in 5 quart jigs in Wal-Mart: this is a bit less expensive. Do not know about pricing for *w40.
In my Scion I use 0-20 Mobil 1, in my Neon I use 5-30 Mobil 1, and in my VW I use 0-40.
I used to think that 10-40 is better than 0-40, that the "0" is fanciful, but actually its the 40 end of things that are important, not the cold pour (cold pour gets the oil to your bearings faster in any weather, though). For any specified engine oil range, though, there are oils that are at the "thin" end of the spec and oils that are at the "thick" end.
For example, most "high mileage" x-30 oils tend to be slightly thicker, at operating temperatures, than x-30 Starburst oils (fuel saving). Mobil 1 0-40 is relatively "thin" at the 40 end of things compared to Mobil 1 5-40 "truck and SUV" oil, which is heavier. This is deliberate; the 0-40 is designed for Euro spec cars like VW, Benz, BMW, which want a slightly thicker oil than we use here, but not punishingly thick for gas mileage. Mobil 1 5-40 has its origins, apparently, in Delvac 5-40 which is sold for diesel applications (but the additive packs are slightly different). So it is thicker, because diesel environments are way harder on cars.
I second yurakam on the "more proven" issue vs. Valvoline. I think it is also important to be able to pick up oil just about anywhere. Mobil 1 is well supported in almost all the weights at Walmart. I used to try to find the Valvoline for my VW but it was hard to locate.
At the end of the day, you'll be fine with either.
(4 for this example).
You might investigate VOA's (virgin oil analysis)
1. Delvac One 5w40
2. Mobil One Truck & Suv)
and UOA's (used oil analysis)
1. Delvac One 5w40
2. Mobil One Truck & Suv 5w40)
for the "REALITY" baselines and how they do in different REAL engines.
The upshot in my estimation is:
1. consistent high quality,
but where the "rubber meets the road"
2 how does it do for ME/YOU!!??
The revelation is in the fact that VOA's and UOA's can help you "project" which oil/s tends to do well given certain facts and parameters and UOA's can confirm or deny this, based on real time, real world data. Some real world examples; 5w30 Mobil One in Z06 Corvette. Delvac One 5w40 aka Mobil One Truck & Suv in VW Jetta TDI.
I have a new 2004 Honda Civic that might merit some discussion of this point. Honda Civic engines tend to happiest and positively slap happy(very untechnical I know) running a healthy dose of moly. So while it never mentions this in marketing or maintenance information, VOA's and UOA's have confirmed that the oem Honda Oil has indeed very high levels of moly. The interesting thing is using (this) conventional oil, Honda oem by way of owners manuals, shop technical data, etc., recommends 10,000 mile oil change intervals for so called "normal" and every other for the oil filter change (20,000 miles)
My point here is 10,000 mile intervals were formally for brave souls using synthetic oils!
(The tires were rotated, too, but the front and rear tire pressure is the same as before.)
I realize it could be a fluke, but am curious. Again, I know next to nothing about oil.
Thanks.
This is even more counter intuitive, but using my Honda Civic for example (slightly different), I project a .5-1 mpg gain when and if I switch to 0-20 synthetic from a 5w20 conventional. So if your experiences hold true for me my projection is probably low. This may not seem like a lot, but all things being equal the gas mileage gain over say a 10,000 miles oil change cycle almost makes use of the synthetic cheaper than using conventional oil!!??. With a 15,000 miles cycle for synthetic, it makes using a 10,000 mile conventional oil downright more expensive. Mobil One 0w20 is an excellent product in the Mobil line, but as it says on the label is made specifically with the 0w20 Ford/Honda in mind. It is not as flexible as the also excellent Mobil 0w40 product.
So say you do a 10,000 mile oil change interval with 35 instead of 34 mpg avg. (285.71G-294.12=8.41 g saved) So while synthetic oil IS more expensive from an up front cost point of view, you do save 8.41G and at say 2.25 dollars a g=$18.92 that will make the conventional oil higher in price with this semi hidden variable.
Since I do not know the exact measures for your car, I will use the Honda Civic, for illustrative purposes:
Conventional Exxon Superflo 5w20 oil @ 1.04 x 3.2-3.4 qt= $3.33/$3.54.
(PLUS $18.92 in gas savings, would make that $22.25/$22.46 respectively)
vs
synthetic Mobil One 0w20 oil @3.99 x 3.2/3.4qt= $12.77/13.57
(as a footnote; the Honda Civic gets even better gas mileage of 35/38 with conventional oil.)
The 5-40 Mobil 1 is slightly thicker than the 0-40, although both are "in spec." I presume the 5-40 Valvoline is also closer to the "thick" end of the spectrum, hence the mileage variation.
For just these reasons I have settled on Mobil 1 0-40 - it satisfies VW's spec to the "t"; it is also approved for Benz and BMW. Some of the other 5-40's are more "generic" for SUV's as well, etc.
I think they all offer fine protection, but the Mobil 1 apparently offers better gas mileage, as you have confirmed.
Why or why not would we want to switch from conventional oil to synthetic? Some people have suggested we make the switch to help keep it going even more (mind you, usage is up from when my mom had the car, but its probably averaging 15-20 miles/day, 5 days/week). It has recently had a complete tuneup, carb work, etc, so it should be in pretty good shape (it is averaging 18-19 mpg). We're not looking to start a war on which brand of synthetic is better than another brand, but looking for hopefully objective information on why we should or should not choose to change to synthetic next time around. Thanks.
I *might* possible add that synthetic would be good for a car exposed to EXTREMES of climate, that is, very very cold or very very hot (Alaska, Nevada desert, etc.).
If your needs don't fit any of the above, I would say synthetic is a waste of money for your old car. Also, there is some speculation that synthetic in a very old car could cause some leaking. I've had that happen and also NOT happen in a couple old cars where I tried it, so I can't say for sure.
Anyway; as I recall, there was virtually no difference in engine wear between the 3,500 and 7,500 mile oil changes; which really surprised me. And I also seem to remember that using 1 qt of synthetic to 4 qts mineral oil gave as much benefit as using full synthetic.
Personally? I change my oil about every 4-5K miles; I don't wait 7,500 miles. But I do use 1 qt of synthetic every time. My engines have all given me exceptional durability; but maybe that's because I drive slow and careful, and don't run the piss out of them (even though I'm only 35
Consumer Reports Article
The surprising truth about motor oils
July 1996, pp 10-13
Also I don't think the cabs undergo the extremes of temperature and high revs that synthetic addresses so well.
It's those frigid cold starts that are engine killers.
Problem is, real life tests take too long for the marketing departments to undertake, oils change, engines change etc. I have used synthetics for over 10 years and swear by them but if you change oil every 3000 miles it makes no difference what you use
The taxi test is good because it's just about the only longterm, real-world test we have that isn't "anecdotal" or laboratory--in other words, scientific rigor was applied (more or less)to cars operating in the real world. If you and I don't tear down side by side engines used in the real world, all our claims are "anecdotal". Doesn't mean they are wrong, just not proven to be repeatable or free of other influences.
but I agree, if you dump oil every 3K, it doesn't make any sense to use synthetics for 99% of the drivers out there.