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So what is the point of this amsoil stuff, again? Why would I pay a 60% premium over mobil 1?"
Can you share that sale ad for Mobil 1 that meets the European requirements for $5.50 a quart?
The Amsoil European is available any time at $6.41 a quart wholesale when you buy a case of 12 quarts. I see you can get Mobil 1 European formula 0w40 for $7.82 a quart for a case of 6. And the Mobil 1 has a weaker formula.
But how does that amazing amsoil get sold? Hmm...
"You can start an independent AMSOIL Dealership for under $50"
Besides, we get the majority of our oil from Canada and Mexico. I like Canada and Mexico. :P
Is this public information? It sounds a bit scandalous actually, if true.
Sounds like product placement in a movie or something.
I'm kinda skeptical if you don't mind me sayin'..."
Feel free to call BMW and ask what the fee is to get on their oil list.
If that's true, why do I keep finding amzoil pushers peddling the stuff in every forum they can try to take over? :P
>>and you won't find AMSOIL in the nationally known retail chains or auto part stores..........
Another false statement> oreillys is pretty much an auto parts store!!!! And it's national!!!! :mad: :sick:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ASO0/ATM01.oap?mn=Amsoil&mc=ASO&partTyp- e=N1191&parentPartType=C0252
Tired of reading the Amsoil pushers.
In the detailing discussions there was a "No Zaino Posts."
Here we need a "No amzoil posts."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Pay a small fee to BMW for testing or inclusion or to VW and think of all the profits the various levels in the MLM would reap from all the extra sales!
They wouldn't need to put product into Oreilly's, an auto parts store that's national (under different names apparently).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ASO0/ATM01.oap?mn=Amsoil&mc=ASO&partTyp- - - - - e=N1191&parentPartType=C0252
I tried to find it on your link and it says "Sorry, no stores in your area were found with this item available." and I live in the Houston area.
I've never seen it in any O'reilly store.
Retail stores with more than 12 to a chain are not allowed to sign up to sell AMSOIL. However, I do sell to independently owned individual stores such as NAPA, CarQuest, BMW dealerships and others.
That wasn't a surprise to me. I didn't even have to google it. They must have called in reinforcements.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
He said the stores can order it in when I asked if all stores have it (there are more than 12 in this area). He says they have most of the motor oil offerings and some of the other things. They can select what they order in.
He sounded pleased that someone was interested in it. Maybe there's not been much interest on the shelf with the other motor synthetics.
Here's a picture of the page:
The first link didn't work because it wrapped and the last of the line was not recognized as html. I should have imbedded it in the link wrapper:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
AMSOIL has a documented history of innovation and leadership.
First to develop an API-rated 100 percent synthetic motor oil.
First to introduce the concept of "extended drain intervals" with a recommended 25,000-mile/1-year drain interval.
First U.S. company to utilize the NOACK volatility test as a standard of performance excellence.
First to produce synthetic motor oils for diesel engines, racing engines, turbo and marine engines.
First to introduce synthetic oils that legitimately contribute to improving fuel efficiency.
First to manufacture synthetic gear lube for automotive use.
First to manufacture a 100:1 pre-mix synthetic 2-cycle oil.
First to manufacture a synthetic automatic transmission fluid for automotive use.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Nope, the facts are correct, but I don't see anything worded exactly like that on the website.
Yes, it's API SM, but it is NOT BMW LL-01 certified, which as you should know is a much higher standard than API SM.
Per my Owner's Manual
Ask your BMW center for details concerning the specific BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil or synthetic oils which have been approved. You can also call BMW of North America at 1-800-831-1117 or visit this website: http://www.bmwusa.com to obtain this information.
Per the BMW web site:
The oils listed below meet BMW's Long-life rating and are acceptable for use in BMW Passenger vehicles and SAVs in the US market with gasoline engines.
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:
- Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
- Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
- Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
- Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30
I don't see Amsoil on that list, do you?
I couldn't agree more. Every time an Amsoil zealot shows up here it's the same thing, lots of noise, half-truths, and even outright falsehoods.
Best regards,
Shipo
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me if there's any difference :confuse: between the Pennzoil EDGE and the Quaker Horsepower 10W-30 full synthetics I bought for my lowly 3800 with 90K miles on it for a first time with synthetics... I definitely won't be using Amsoil because it's way over-priced uncompetitive despite all the money they save by not advertising.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Of course not. AMSOIL didn't pay BMW to be on the list. It's not required for anything. AMSOIL has shown for 37 years it works great in BMW's with no oil failures and no voided warranties. And no oil company has ever shown their oil is superior or equal to AMSOIL.
Can you prove those statements?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"I definitely won't be using Amsoil because it's way over-priced uncompetitive despite all the money they save by not advertising."
This data shows AMSOILl is competitively priced with lesser oils, and the cost per mile is less with AMSOIL. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1971.pdf?zo=1181889 . This is why commercial fleets use AMSOIL.
I guess you've missed the AMSOIL commercials on SPEED, NBC and ABC and all the race series sponsorships they have. Their money goes into purchasing the best base oils and additive packages. Not into huge corporate salaries, skyscrapers, stock funds, etc. And that money stays in the good ol' USA and Canada.
You can prove it to yourself.
Have you ever seen a written document from BMW stating AMSOIL has caused an oil failure or voided a warranty, or not to use AMSOIL? Call BMW and ask them.
Check the BBB website and you will see no warranty issues for AMSOIL, INC., Superior, Wisconsin. AMSOIL sells millions of oil changes a year.
>"Can you prove those statements?"
>Have you ever seen a written document from BMW stating AMSOIL has caused an oil failure or voided a warranty, or not to use AMSOIL? Call BMW and ask them.
That's not proving it. You're begging the question trying to have me prove something didn't happen instead of your proving what you claimed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sure it is. If BMW says AMSOIL has never failed in their engines or voided a warranty, what more do you want? Don't you think if AMSOIL voided a warranty, someone, somewhere would have proof?
Did you check the BBB website for any warranty issues?
You need to prove that is the case. Do you have the statement from BMW saying amsoil has never failed in their engines nor been responsible for a voided warranty due to its use?
I'm waiting for a statement from BMW to that point.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You need to prove that is the case. Do you have the statement from BMW saying amsoil has never failed in their engines nor been responsible for a voided warranty due to its use?
I'm waiting for a statement from BMW to that point.
Just ask BMW if AMSOIL has ever voided a warranty. Pretty simple. You should ask them yourself, since you won't believe me.
Did you check the BBB for any AMSOIL warranty issues? How come you won't answer that? No warranty issues are listed.
So, may we please move on so that I don't have to begin removing posts? No one likes to write in disappearing ink. It's a waste of your good time and mine.
Mr Shiftright
Host
PS: Or, if the community feels this topic is exhausted, I can retire it for a while. It's over 8,000 posts, quite an accomplishment.
"Amsoil, which claims to be the world’s largest
independent marketer of synthetic engine oil, stakes its
reputation on longer drain intervals (up to 35,000 miles)
and backs it up with a full replacement engine warranty.
Moreover, it has done so for three decades without a
single proven case of oil-related failure in an engine
covered by its warranty. Claims against the warranty
have been made but no engine failure, nor any
excess wear, has been l directly linked or confirmed
to any Amsoil product, the company says."
too bad for AMSOIL:-) My German "horse" gonna be lubricated ONLY by oils from BMW approved list.
Have Castol EDGE and Quaker State Horsepower. Both full synthetics. Edge promises 15000 miles drain interval (or one year).
Which one should I use for the first fill of synthetic for the winter in a 3800 Buick with 90K?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
CASTROL REBATE OFFER ON AMAZON
If your engine is dirty, consider using an engine flush product designed for that purpose. This will help the Castrol last longer.
QSHP has one of the lowest TFOUT values at 169 minutes (compared to 489 minutes for AMSOIL).
QSHP has one of the highest NOAK evaporation at 10.3%, compared to AMSOIL at 5.7%.
QSHP has a pretty high TBN at 10.
QuakerState only warranties 15 parts for up to 4,000 miles, up to 4 months.
I wouldn't go any more than 5,000 miles on the QSHP, unless your owners manual says you can. You can go up to 15,000 miles/1 year on the Edge with a Castrol warranty except for "severe" miles, if you are out of warranty and if you don't do "severe" miles, such as towing, hauling, racing, dirty conditions, etc. Otherwise, follow your owners manual.
They are both foreign owned oils companies if you don't mind sending your money overseas.
:P
He was not sure how long this additional consumption would continue.
My workaround is to use a "uplevel classification" conventional oil and change it every 3K miles (as my Subie's a turbo, Oil's required to be changed every 3750 miles). So far, the oil coming out of Subie's engine is less dirty than from my former Malibu Maxx or Toyotas for equivalent mileage changes.
Unless Subaru uses gaskets and seals composed of material that is grossly inferior to what is used on every other car sold in the States, then your Service Advisor is speaking either from person bias or he was seriously misinformed.
When synthetics are introduced, the better ones clean up the varnish. If the seals and gaskets are cracked because they dried out, the synthetic will penetrate and could cause some leaking. Also when the nooks and crannies are cleaned out, the synthetic can now get in there like it was supposed to. This can all cause a noticeable increase in initial oil intake, and usually stops by the second oil change.
Nor have I ever observed synthetic ever doing anything funny to gaskets during a tear down.
Given such real feedback on so many varieties of cars, I personally feel confident to advise people not to worry about this.
My opinion is that this worry about synthetic causing leaks came from a confusion between "causation" and "correlation". In other words, they were tinkering with an old car, or reviving it from storage, and it started leaking some oil or burning it---but they had done so many other things to the car, or just starting using it again, or were new owners.
The only engine I tell people not to use synthetic oil in, is a Mazda rotary, based on what I've studied on that matter.
I cant' believe that someone would actually write that stuff. And that anyone with knowledge of synthetic oil would take it seriously.
"The ones that do not burn clean can leave residues of various substances (like ash? plastic? non-organic sand?) that accumulate until the spark plugs foul, or a seal sticks -- could be apex seal, side seal, corner seal, or oil control ring. The normal consequence of a stuck seal is an engine tear down."
Chemical synthetic oils are not made with impurities that would form ash, where would the plastic come from?, non organic sand?. Chemical synthetic oils are made from pure chemicals synthesized from pure small carbon molecules. Of course petroleum oils could contain some of these components as they are made directly from crude oil.
"In the many years we have been involved in rotary engines, we have NEVER had a problem with GOOD petroleum based oils. They work fine! They are less expensive than synthetics. (We use Castrol 20-50 GTX). They burn clean, etc. etc."
Yeah right. There is no scientific evidence that supports their claim of cleaner burning. Does anyone really think that petroleum based oils with thousands of different components burn cleaner than pure chemical synthetic oils? Burn some yourself and see which burn cleaner and leave the least residue.
"We are not chemists, and we do not have the time, $$'s, nor inclination to do 100K mile tests of various synthetics in rotary engines."
Understatement of the year! Of course Mazda and oil and additive companies do the tests. We did when I was a chemist at Shell.
When in doubt ask the vehicle manufacturers and the oil companies. Not the internet chat rooms. I posted a tech bulletin that covered all of this but it was deleted. In that bulletin "MAZDA RECOMMENDATION:
Mazda Engineering recommends the use of designated gen-
uine engine oil and the following guidelines:
• Engine oil should be changed regularly.
• Only designated genuine oil be recommended to customers.
• Under severe conditions, oil should be changed at 5,000 km
or every 6 months.
The Mazda owner’s manual for the RX8 models with the
RENESIS engine calls for the use of SAE 5W-20 engine oil
that meets API SM/SL and is ILSAC rated. However, it does
not specify what type of oil to use or issue any warnings about
the use of synthetic engine oil.
"The problem with answering the original question is that it is NOT a simple yes or no. We DO simplify it to a "NO", but that is because we do NOT know whether the specific brand of synthetic the customer has in mind will work. AND, if it does not work, how long will it be before the damage shows up, and how bad will the damage be? Maybe it will take 10,000 miles, maybe 50,000 miles?? Maybe the engine will fail due to something unrelated to the oil, and there won't be enough left to determine that there was damage from the oil.
WE are not willing to take that gamble, are you ?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------
Seems quite reasonable statement to me, given that they have been building and tearing down rotary engines for 30 years.
I think you need to re-read what they are saying. Perhaps you missed the point?
I think you need to re-read what they are saying. Perhaps you missed the point?"
Not really. Mazda and the oil companies have been doing more and longer than them.
They readily admit they don't know the science or have any scientific studies, but Mazda and the oil companies do.
Yep, they don't know. But Mazda and the oil companies do. So ask them.
I myself have a lot of respect for hands-on experience. This is why we have so many engineer jokes.
There is laboratory knowledge and then there is field knowledge. If engineers were always right, we wouldn't have recall campaigns or TSBs, because the engineers would have figured it all out before the car hit the road.
As my dear departed Dad used to say (he was a field technician for Packard)
"Resume? My resume is on the end of my wrench!"
I think the universe can withstand the horror of having ONE CAR that does not like, nor need, synthetic oil.