Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

sb55 · November 2017

Hey Bradd. I used to work in Queens. Do you think that 25MPH rather than 30MPH will make any difference?
I don't remember going more than that. Maybe the Bronx is different? And, certainly not in Manhattan!

dino001 · November 2017

nyccarguy said:
Update on my father-in-law's Outback.

The Good: He spoke to the body shop manager who told him the parts came in and there is no structural damage to the car. Just the door and the Rocker Panel have to be replaced.

The Bad: The dealership really isn't doing the right thing. He's spoken to the sales manager and has a call into the General Manager. The sales manager seems to be treating this like any other transaction.

He told my Father-In-Law: "I can't just swap you into a brand new 2018 Outback. You have $7,000 worth of negative equity."

My FIL said: "How is that possible? I put $7,000 down on the car and have been making loan payments for 8 months."

Sales manager: "well sir, your car has a dirty CarFax."

FIL: "One of your employees is THE reason for the dirty Car Fax."

My FIL has a call into the GM of the dealership as well as Subaru Corporate (this is his 5th Subie)

To Be Continued...

That's nasty... Without their goodwill he may have trouble to legally recover what's owed to him. You didn't speak who was at fault in the T-bone. If it was the employee, then the situation is legally much better, as the loss of value should be covered from their professional liability insurance, most likely it would be part of their deductible, so they'd need to pay anyway. Having a clean swap would be then a part of the settlement avoiding any claims. If the t-bone was a third party fault, it's worse, as now the claim may be toward that third party. I'm not a lawyer, perhaps the fact the vehicle was in dealer's custody could make it so the claim is still against them and the dealer may recover it against the third party. Who knows. Either way, if the dealer simply doesn't want to eat those thousands in a clean swap, then it becomes a legal battle, perhaps in a small claims court. Hassle and more hassle. The repair itself should not be covered by your FIL's insurance, it should also be settled between the t-bone participants. The loss of value is quite obvious here, but some people just don't want to pay their obligations, unless compelled by court.

I can't understand how dealer would not come with something for a returning multiple customer. I guess this wipes out all the profit from previous transactions, so they simply would rather let him never come back.

Somebody said here that success often breeds arrogance and even contempt. There is definitely truth in it. Just look at many (not all, of course) Toyota's and Honda's dealers across country in 80s, or 90s. Things like cutting sunroof in every single unit in the dealership (somebody told a story here about the SM literally driving a scredriver into the roof of not-yet-fixed car in front of the customer, just so it was clear there is no choice. I think it's only Hyundai and Kia nipping at their heels and domestics improving their product that brought those guys to much more reasonable level of professional behavior, laced here and there with 10 grand ADM's on new Civic-R (but nobody really needs Civic R, so let them have it). I have a story of my own for arrogance and contempt born out of success. It was a Mini dealer when those things just came out, really hot. I was there with a friend checking thing out, we had to wait for a test drive in a line for something like an hour. So a conversation ensued during waiting time with this floor salesman. They put that clear plastic cover on their front hoods and mirrors, really hideous stuff, IMHO. Of course outrageously overpriced, too. We asked what's up with that, so this whole thing "we do it for all of them" stuff, the usual garbage. So the friend asks, what if we are able to intercept one at the port and designate it as one without this thing. The guys answers, and I'm not kidding: we would still charge you for it. I was done there and then. Even if I liked the car (I didn't) and really wanted to buy one (I didn't), I would never, ever buy it from them. Or if I couldn't keep myself from not buying (not that many choices), the survey would have been my revenge, I guess.

ab348 · November 2017

The sales manager seems to think his job is to milk the most profit from every single transaction, not take a longer-term view. Maybe that's how he's compensated, who knows. Hopefully a discussion with the GM will be more productive.

Dino, I've told this story before, but in 1990 I wanted to buy a new Accord coupe. We only had one Honda dealer here at the time and they were on the crest of the Honda cult. A friend had bought a Prelude there a few years earlier when they were red-hot and she not only had to give them a $1000 nonrefundable deposit to be put on a wait list but also had no choice of car - she had to take whatever they offered her when one became available. Then later on she told me tales of their service department and $800 invoices for stuff they said the car needed once it got out of warranty, just ridiculous. Anyway I knew all that going in but figured maybe things had changed in the subsequent years. Test drove one, liked it, went back into the showroom to talk a deal.

"Did you like it?"

"Yes, very much. Nice car. How much is it?"

THEY WOULD NOT TALK TO ME. Nope. The reply: "I can't give you the price until after you tell me you're going to buy the car."

"Well, that kinda depends on the price, don't you think?"

"Sorry, we can't talk price until I know if you're going to buy it."

Needless to say, I did not buy a 1990 Accord coupe. Walked down the street to the VW dealer and bought a GTI instead.

fintail · November 2017

I want to like the Stinger. I generally like Kia a lot more than Hyundai due to styling alone. However, there are some issues: lack of color selection catches my eye, prior-gen Optima styling (not a bad thing really), and maybe the big question, who will be the customer? Cadenza drivers trading up? I think it will end up competing with the Germans it is trying to undercut, just in CPO off-lease form. New Stinger or 3 year old A7?

driver100 said:
That was interesting about the Stinger...it starts at the 5:05 mark. He reviewer liked it except for the instrument panel....especially the floating media/gps screen, says it seems like they forgot about it and added it on at the last minute...which is how describe those screens.
He liked the 336 hp, the way it drove and handled, the comfort....everything except the dash. They think sales could be slow as sedans aren't selling that well these days.

fintail · November 2017

Reckless driving is a minor offense?

I wonder what the input was about - intimidation, arrogant lecture, trying to get back at a speeder who insulted him? Sounds kind of crooked.

roadburner said:

I may have mentioned this before, but our citations had a box marked "ATTN" on them. If the box wasn't checked and it was a minor offense(speeding, reckless driving, etc.) it indicated that the officer didn't care what we did with the ticket. If it was checked it meant the officer wanted input into any plea and/or sentence. It helped us move things along on traffic arraignment dockets, where we sometimes had 300 or more cases- we could knock out the whole thing in under 90 minutes.

venture · November 2017

driver100 said:
I was in charge of buying a security system for our complex in Florida....there are 76 units. I gave a talk at our last board meeting to explain what they system could do. One fellow was a retired cop who worked on security cases. He got vicious that we could record things - such as him, and then that recording could be used against him one day. For example, he said, what if Mr Smith had a baby, he brought the baby into the clubhouse to change it, a camera recorded him changing the baby, one day he is charged with child abuse, the recording is presented. It seems that in a community where the public could go we would need a) a sign to indicate the property is being monitored and b) we need to have very limited access to any recorded information, and it should only be reviewed if necessary - that is not monitored at random.

I can understand that some communities may want to know who has a security system as they have become an important tool in fighting crime, and there may be certain rules you have to abide by if you have a system. Usually, there seems to be no rules in a private home....but, my guess is every community is different.

Holy cow. That's an odd and somewhat twisted reaction the retired cop had.

driver100 · November 2017

My educated guess from watching Marketplace (CBC Canada) is that service managers are paid a commission based on sales. So, yeh, they will do whatever they have to to maintain whatever spiff they have already made. Who cares about 3 and 6 years down the road, he may not be there then.

The general manager would be the one to see, but, I don't hold out much hope of them easily caving in. Car companies don't care about long term...most companies don't think long term...it is only the current quarter that matters.

I think small claims court is the route to go....they may not like spending the time and getting a lawyer to protect their interest. If they were really smart they would realize they can write off the expense, count it under advertising (good will), and they may actually end up selling even more cars.

driver100 · November 2017

fintail said:
Reckless driving is a minor offense?

I wonder what the input was about - intimidation, arrogant lecture, trying to get back at a speeder who insulted him? Sounds kind of crooked.

roadburner said:

I may have mentioned this before, but our citations had a box marked "ATTN" on them. If the box wasn't checked and it was a minor offense(speeding, reckless driving, etc.) it indicated that the officer didn't care what we did with the ticket. If it was checked it meant the officer wanted input into any plea and/or sentence. It helped us move things along on traffic arraignment dockets, where we sometimes had 300 or more cases- we could knock out the whole thing in under 90 minutes.

Reckless driving is pretty serious...most places probably could lose license.

driver100 · November 2017

venture said:

driver100 said:
I was in charge of buying a security system for our complex in Florida....there are 76 units. I gave a talk at our last board meeting to explain what they system could do. One fellow was a retired cop who worked on security cases. He got vicious that we could record things - such as him, and then that recording could be used against him one day. For example, he said, what if Mr Smith had a baby, he brought the baby into the clubhouse to change it, a camera recorded him changing the baby, one day he is charged with child abuse, the recording is presented. It seems that in a community where the public could go we would need a) a sign to indicate the property is being monitored and b) we need to have very limited access to any recorded information, and it should only be reviewed if necessary - that is not monitored at random.

I can understand that some communities may want to know who has a security system as they have become an important tool in fighting crime, and there may be certain rules you have to abide by if you have a system. Usually, there seems to be no rules in a private home....but, my guess is every community is different.
Holy cow. That's an odd and somewhat twisted reaction the retired cop had.

I was at the meeting showing how the cameras could show the video of the room we were sitting in. He started to shout how I better not be recording him right now or there would be big trouble. I had to explain I wasn't (but I was) but I was just showing how the system worked. He said he worked on these very things and he busted pornographers and people recording neighbors and businesses recording people...as well as peeping toms etc. He said you can have one on private property, but in a complex you need warning signs, and it can't be pointed at someones home. He seemed knowledgeable so I put him in charge of setting it up....all is good and we have expert advice now.

stickguy · November 2017

Fin, I think the same about the Stinger. Not quite what I would be looking at, though I could make one work. But I do know I would not be stopping into either one of my local Kia dealers to get one!

A bit too big for my taste, and I specced one out the other day, and was just a little bit off in some way (maybe the level required to get a moonroof?) plus the GT was summer only tires I think. In any case, pretty sure I would only be looking at the 2.0T version, premium, so IIRC about 43K sticker. And there are a lot of options at that price point.

I am actually kind of curious about the upcoming small Genesis. I think it is going to be a touch smaller, probably a bit less "flashy", and likely more my style.

roadburner · November 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
RB, how often did you have cases where the violator plead not guilty and got off because the officer didn't show?

I've lost count. Sometimes the officer had an excuse and had called the prosecutor- in most cases I'd grant a continuance. However, a straight up no-show won the case for the defendant.

roadburner · November 2017

dino001 said:

nyccarguy said:
Update on my father-in-law's Outback.

The Good: He spoke to the body shop manager who told him the parts came in and there is no structural damage to the car. Just the door and the Rocker Panel have to be replaced.

The Bad: The dealership really isn't doing the right thing. He's spoken to the sales manager and has a call into the General Manager. The sales manager seems to be treating this like any other transaction.

He told my Father-In-Law: "I can't just swap you into a brand new 2018 Outback. You have $7,000 worth of negative equity."

My FIL said: "How is that possible? I put $7,000 down on the car and have been making loan payments for 8 months."

Sales manager: "well sir, your car has a dirty CarFax."

FIL: "One of your employees is THE reason for the dirty Car Fax."

My FIL has a call into the GM of the dealership as well as Subaru Corporate (this is his 5th Subie)

To Be Continued...
That's nasty... Without their goodwill he may have trouble to legally recover what's owed to him. You didn't speak who was at fault in the T-bone. If it was the employee, then the situation is legally much better, as the loss of value should be covered from their professional liability insurance, most likely it would be part of their deductible, so they'd need to pay anyway. Having a clean swap would be then a part of the settlement avoiding any claims. If the t-bone was a third party fault, it's worse, as now the claim may be toward that third party. I'm not a lawyer, perhaps the fact the vehicle was in dealer's custody could make it so the claim is still against them and the dealer may recover it against the third party. Who knows. Either way, if the dealer simply doesn't want to eat those thousands in a clean swap, then it becomes a legal battle, perhaps in a small claims court. Hassle and more hassle. The repair itself should not be covered by your FIL's insurance, it should also be settled between the t-bone participants. The loss of value is quite obvious here, but some people just don't want to pay their obligations, unless compelled by court.

I can't understand how dealer would not come with something for a returning multiple customer. I guess this wipes out all the profit from previous transactions, so they simply would rather let him never come back.

Somebody said here that success often breeds arrogance and even contempt. There is definitely truth in it. Just look at many (not all, of course) Toyota's and Honda's dealers across country in 80s, or 90s. Things like cutting sunroof in every single unit in the dealership (somebody told a story here about the SM literally driving a scredriver into the roof of not-yet-fixed car in front of the customer, just so it was clear there is no choice. I think it's only Hyundai and Kia nipping at their heels and domestics improving their product that brought those guys to much more reasonable level of professional behavior, laced here and there with 10 grand ADM's on new Civic-R (but nobody really needs Civic R, so let them have it). I have a story of my own for arrogance and contempt born out of success. It was a Mini dealer when those things just came out, really hot. I was there with a friend checking thing out, we had to wait for a test drive in a line for something like an hour. So a conversation ensued during waiting time with this floor salesman. They put that clear plastic cover on their front hoods and mirrors, really hideous stuff, IMHO. Of course outrageously overpriced, too. We asked what's up with that, so this whole thing "we do it for all of them" stuff, the usual garbage. So the friend asks, what if we are able to intercept one at the port and designate it as one without this thing. The guys answers, and I'm not kidding: we would still charge you for it. I was done there and then. Even if I liked the car (I didn't) and really wanted to buy one (I didn't), I would never, ever buy it from them. Or if I couldn't keep myself from not buying (not that many choices), the survey would have been my revenge, I guess.

Back in 1984(during the dark days of the voluntary import car quotas) my soon-to-be wife was looking for a new car. I suggested an Accord coupe. We spent a day visiting EVERY Honda dealer in Cincinnati and each tried to play some kind of game: four-square, giving only payment numbers and refusing to talk price, wanting a $500 deposit to take an offer to the SM, etc. Ever since that time a Honda has never made her short list. Ten years later we were interested in a Mitsubishi Montero SR and had a similar experience. One dealer even told me not to bother shopping around since you couldn't get an SR without ordering every available option(an outright lie). Still, my favorite was the Cincy Mitsu store running "INVOICE SALE!!! EVERY VEHICLE MARKED DOWN TO INVOICE!!!" screamer ads. I called up and asked if they would sell an SR at invoice and the guy told me to come in and make an offer and he would "try to work down to invoice." @sshole.
Have we ever looked at a Mitsubishi again? Three guesses and the first two don't count...

roadburner · November 2017

fintail said:
Reckless driving is a minor offense?

I wonder what the input was about - intimidation, arrogant lecture, trying to get back at a speeder who insulted him? Sounds kind of crooked.

roadburner said:

I may have mentioned this before, but our citations had a box marked "ATTN" on them. If the box wasn't checked and it was a minor offense(speeding, reckless driving, etc.) it indicated that the officer didn't care what we did with the ticket. If it was checked it meant the officer wanted input into any plea and/or sentence. It helped us move things along on traffic arraignment dockets, where we sometimes had 300 or more cases- we could knock out the whole thing in under 90 minutes.

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

dino001 · November 2017

roadburner said:
Back in 1984(during the dark days of the voluntary import car quotas) my soon-to-be wife was looking for a new car. I suggested an Accord coupe. We spent a day visiting EVERY Honda dealer in Cincinnati and each tried to play some kind of game: four-square, giving only payment numbers and refusing to talk price, wanting a $500 deposit to take an offer to the SM, etc. Ever since that time a Honda has never made her short list. Ten years later we were interested in a Mitsubishi Montero SR and had a similar experience. One dealer even told me not to bother shopping around since you couldn't get an SR without ordering every available option(an outright lie). Still, my favorite was the Cincy Mitsu store running "INVOICE SALE!!! EVERY VEHICLE MARKED DOWN TO INVOICE!!!" screamer ads. I called up and asked if they would sell an SR at invoice and the guy told me to come in and make an offer and he would "try to work down to invoice." @sshole.
Have we ever looked at a Mitsubishi again? Three guesses and the first two don't count...

Those are reasons I feel no remorse when tables are turned. When you think it’s appropriate to demand 10 grand over sticker, never give a real price offers, play four squares, etc., don’t run crocodile tears when in turn marmet gets cold and you have to sell at a real loss. Not that I actually bought cars at such low prices (I buy thing that are generally at simoultaneous low supply and demand, which means pricing won’t go out of proportion either way, but I advised a few other people buying much more mainstream, using this sentiment.

fintail · November 2017

So in other words, the cop was offended and wanted revenge. Very professional. And I suspect if the LEO was called out on it, there'd be a trumped up "contempt of court" threat. Gotta keep the money coming in, the insane bennies won't fund themselves. Corrupt, it's about cash flow. Enforcement and punishment must be consistent - but we all know it is far from it.

roadburner said:

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

fintail · November 2017

I'll be very interested to see sales in a year or two, and how they hold up in the used market - this model has been somewhat hyped, and will need to deliver. Some of the trim levels and names are odd, too (GT, GT1, GT2 - is the first one then GT zero?). With the high lease volumes of the premium brands, and CPO warranties, there might be more competition than the planners imagined. But it still might be a decent value, especially if it has K900 style depreciation.

I see Kia styling as more BMW/Audi, Genesis as more Lexus.

stickguy said:
Fin, I think the same about the Stinger. Not quite what I would be looking at, though I could make one work. But I do know I would not be stopping into either one of my local Kia dealers to get one!

A bit too big for my taste, and I specced one out the other day, and was just a little bit off in some way (maybe the level required to get a moonroof?) plus the GT was summer only tires I think. In any case, pretty sure I would only be looking at the 2.0T version, premium, so IIRC about 43K sticker. And there are a lot of options at that price point.

I am actually kind of curious about the upcoming small Genesis. I think it is going to be a touch smaller, probably a bit less "flashy", and likely more my style.

driver100 · November 2017

fintail said:
So in other words, the cop was offended and wanted revenge. Very professional. And I suspect if the LEO was called out on it, there'd be a trumped up "contempt of court" threat. Gotta keep the money coming in, the insane bennies won't fund themselves. Corrupt, it's about cash flow. Enforcement and punishment must be consistent - but we all know it is far from it.

roadburner said:

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

When I had my accident and the truck hit me, when I stopped for a yellow light, and the cop said I was partly to blame - because he has seen cars cut in front of trucks and jam on the brakes....I was tempted to call him a moron. But, I thought, my chances of coming out of that won't be good...he will nail me for something, obstructing justice or some such thing...so I politely left and then contacted his superior.

I used to back the police 100%......now, I am a little wary of them. Still basically back them, but some level of distrust. They should all wear cameras.

abacomike · November 2017

driver100 said:

So in other words, the cop was offended and wanted revenge. Very professional. And I suspect if the LEO was called out on it, there'd be a trumped up "contempt of court" threat. Gotta keep the money coming in, the insane bennies won't fund themselves. Corrupt, it's about cash flow. Enforcement and punishment must be consistent - but we all know it is far from it.
Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

When I had my accident and the truck hit me, when I stopped for a yellow light, and the cop said I was partly to blame - because he has seen cars cut in front of trucks and jam on the brakes....I was tempted to call him a moron. But, I thought, my chances of coming out of that won't be good...he will nail me for something, obstructing justice or some such thing...so I politely left and then contacted his superior. I used to back the police 100%......now, I am a little wary of them. Still basically back them, but some level of distrust. They should all wear cameras.

What does the average police officer in major cities deal with on a weekly basis? Domestic disputes and violence; auto accidents; shootings and murders; robberies (armed and unarmed); road rage; car chases; car hijackings; speeding and traffic stops; hit and runs; just to name a few. These officers have seen just about everything. A vehicular stop is never routine because one never knows who is driving and what is their motivation.

In lower population density areas, the risk to police officers is diminished, but still they take their life in their hands every time they are required to answer a call.

Are all police officers perfect? Of course not! But I always lean toward trusting them implicitly - if not them, WHO?

houdini1 · November 2017

driver100 said:

venture said:

driver100 said:
I was in charge of buying a security system for our complex in Florida....there are 76 units. I gave a talk at our last board meeting to explain what they system could do. One fellow was a retired cop who worked on security cases. He got vicious that we could record things - such as him, and then that recording could be used against him one day. For example, he said, what if Mr Smith had a baby, he brought the baby into the clubhouse to change it, a camera recorded him changing the baby, one day he is charged with child abuse, the recording is presented. It seems that in a community where the public could go we would need a) a sign to indicate the property is being monitored and b) we need to have very limited access to any recorded information, and it should only be reviewed if necessary - that is not monitored at random.

I can understand that some communities may want to know who has a security system as they have become an important tool in fighting crime, and there may be certain rules you have to abide by if you have a system. Usually, there seems to be no rules in a private home....but, my guess is every community is different.
Holy cow. That's an odd and somewhat twisted reaction the retired cop had.

I was at the meeting showing how the cameras could show the video of the room we were sitting in. He started to shout how I better not be recording him right now or there would be big trouble. I had to explain I wasn't (but I was) but I was just showing how the system worked. He said he worked on these very things and he busted pornographers and people recording neighbors and businesses recording people...as well as peeping toms etc. He said you can have one on private property, but in a complex you need warning signs, and it can't be pointed at someones home. He seemed knowledgeable so I put him in charge of setting it up....all is good and we have expert advice now.

Putting the chief complainer in charge is usually a good business move.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

fintail said:
I want to like the Stinger. I generally like Kia a lot more than Hyundai due to styling alone. However, there are some issues: lack of color selection catches my eye, prior-gen Optima styling (not a bad thing really), and maybe the big question, who will be the customer? Cadenza drivers trading up? I think it will end up competing with the Germans it is trying to undercut, just in CPO off-lease form. New Stinger or 3 year old A7?

driver100 said:
That was interesting about the Stinger...it starts at the 5:05 mark. He reviewer liked it except for the instrument panel....especially the floating media/gps screen, says it seems like they forgot about it and added it on at the last minute...which is how describe those screens.
He liked the 336 hp, the way it drove and handled, the comfort....everything except the dash. They think sales could be slow as sedans aren't selling that well these days.

The Stinger is pushing $40K or so?

stickguy · November 2017

4 cylinder premium is low 40s. A V6 GT will run 50 decently equipped.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

That's going to be a tough sell with a Kia badge, don't you think?

fintail · November 2017

Or maybe all drivers should have cameras. Just be sure you are in the right

That's one fun thing about this age, dashcams and social media. If you are wronged, there are avenues for protest and shaming. I believe the vast majority of LEOs are pretty good, but like everything else in humanity, the bad apples spoil a lot. The good ones not going after the bad might be my real issue.

driver100 said:

When I had my accident and the truck hit me, when I stopped for a yellow light, and the cop said I was partly to blame - because he has seen cars cut in front of trucks and jam on the brakes....I was tempted to call him a moron. But, I thought, my chances of coming out of that won't be good...he will nail me for something, obstructing justice or some such thing...so I politely left and then contacted his superior.

I used to back the police 100%......now, I am a little wary of them. Still basically back them, but some level of distrust. They should all wear cameras.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2017

Good morning from beautiful Manson, WA. It's frosty out there.

qbrozen · November 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
That's going to be a tough sell with a Kia badge, don't you think?

I'm not sure. Its competitors are really only the Chevy SS and Charger/300 (although a half foot or so shorter than either of those). I wouldn't yet call it a competitor to any of the luxury brands, although maybe it will be cross-shopped with the Q50?

I'd have to play with the configurators to see how they stack up.

pensfan83 · November 2017

I have purchased 4 cars from franchised dealers and in 3 experiences I never felt pressured, manipulated, or that the dealer wasn't being forthcoming. With the wealth of information available to buyers I have to think the brighter SM and GM's realize it's a waste of their time to try old tricks on someone who has their you know what together. Reading through some of the lease threads though it's apparent some dealers still try to see what they can get away with.

If anything I'm probably more sympathetic to a salesman's plight (selling a car) than I should be, as evidenced by my waffling on which dealer I should go with when buying the Acura before coming to my senses.

qbrozen · November 2017

I just took a quick look. Infiniti Q50 RWD Red 400 Sport is $52k with no extras added on. Vs $46k for the Stinger GT1. If you want all the driver assistance garbage, you have to step up to the $52k Stinger GT2, but also add those options to the Q50 for a total of $58k. So $6k difference either way. That is fairly substantial.

qbrozen · November 2017

For further comparison, a loaded Charger RT Scat Pack is $47k.

jwm40517 · November 2017

A reckless driving charge can be minor. Simply burning a little rubber from a stoplight can get you charged with reckless driving. It does not have to be something that endangers lives to get that charge.

roadburner · November 2017

fintail said:
So in other words, the cop was offended and wanted revenge. Very professional. And I suspect if the LEO was called out on it, there'd be a trumped up "contempt of court" threat. Gotta keep the money coming in, the insane bennies won't fund themselves. Corrupt, it's about cash flow. Enforcement and punishment must be consistent - but we all know it is far from it.

roadburner said:

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

Cash flow has nothing to do with it- in KY, the Circuit Court Clerk gets a very small percentage of the fees and everything else goes to the state. I'd be willing to bet that the ATTN box system resulted in a LOT fewer convictions than it would have without the system.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2017

It's a Kellogg's good morning!

roadburner · November 2017

qbrozen said:
For further comparison, a loaded Charger RT Scat Pack is $47k.

As I said on another site; I'd go with the Charger R/T Scat Pack if I wanted a large sedan, and a 440i Gran Coupe with THP and MPPS if I wanted a compact sport sedan.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2017

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
That's going to be a tough sell with a Kia badge, don't you think?
I'm not sure. Its competitors are really only the Chevy SS and Charger/300 (although a half foot or so shorter than either of those). I wouldn't yet call it a competitor to any of the luxury brands, although maybe it will be cross-shopped with the Q50?

I'd have to play with the configurators to see how they stack up.

The Chevy SS is going away this year.

stickguy · November 2017

The charger is a whole size class up from a stinger. I could live with the Kia length, but never a barge (by my standards) like a charger!

ab348 · November 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:
That's going to be a tough sell with a Kia badge, don't you think?

I think once you get beyond the Kia Kult members and the hot-Asian-car fanboys, probably. It strikes me a bit like when Hyundai intro'ed the Genesis coupe. On the various forums people were comparing it to the Mustang GT. It had an initial burst of sales and then just fizzled out, at least around here.

iluvmysephia1 · November 2017

I think once you get beyond the Kia Kult members and the hot-Asian-car fanboys, probably. It strikes me a bit like when Hyundai intro'ed the Genesis coupe. On the various forums people were comparing it to the Mustang GT. It had an initial burst of sales and then just fizzled out, at least around here.

If Kia built the Stinger with a standard transmission I'd at least take the thing for a test drive.

breld · November 2017

I like the Stinger and give props to Kia for producing it and targeting the 4-series GC. We had a good ownership experience with our Kia van, so would consider the brand again.

Having said that, I wouldn't buy one new without serious discounts, and probably not even then. For anyone open to buying used/CPO, the 4-series and A5, as well as the domestic competitors, have been out long enough that there are plenty of used examples available at prices very competitive (and lower) with a new Stinger.

I could see a 1-2 year old example being a great buy on the used market though.

nyccarguy · November 2017

qbrozen said:

For further comparison, a loaded Charger RT Scat Pack is $47k.

Advantage Charger

iluvmysephia1 · November 2017

https://www.westernwashington.buyatoyota.com/en/landing/toyota-no-cost-maintenance/

My Chromium 6-speed 2017 Toyota Yaris iA will have a free two-year maintenance plan included with it that I didn't know I was going to get. Coolio. Topped off with an Iglasius.

I don't think I'm gonna be able ta beat Larson Toyota of Tacoma's price of $14,634. There's a dealer in Bozeman, MT, that is offering a brand new 2017 Toyota Yaris iA in the red (Pulse) color for only $14,496 as well. It's gonna be either silver or red but Chromium trumps everything on this one. It's the interplay of the silver on the car's finish with the silver of the standard alloys that finishes the deal for me.

driver100 · November 2017

iluvmysephia1 said:
It's a Kellogg's good morning!

Are you looking at the graphite or the chromium model?

Oh, I got my answer before I saw it!

pensfan83 · November 2017

Speaking of Q50 my boss just picked up a 3.0 Sport AWD on Black Friday. Really nice car. I'm very happy with the TLX but I'm not sure why I didn't at least put the Infiniti on the list.

driver100 · November 2017

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
So in other words, the cop was offended and wanted revenge. Very professional. And I suspect if the LEO was called out on it, there'd be a trumped up "contempt of court" threat. Gotta keep the money coming in, the insane bennies won't fund themselves. Corrupt, it's about cash flow. Enforcement and punishment must be consistent - but we all know it is far from it.

roadburner said:

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

When I had my accident and the truck hit me, when I stopped for a yellow light, and the cop said I was partly to blame - because he has seen cars cut in front of trucks and jam on the brakes....I was tempted to call him a moron. But, I thought, my chances of coming out of that won't be good...he will nail me for something, obstructing justice or some such thing...so I politely left and then contacted his superior.

I used to back the police 100%......now, I am a little wary of them. Still basically back them, but some level of distrust. They should all wear cameras.

.

Are all police officers perfect? Of course not! But I always lean toward trusting them implicitly - if not them, WHO?

There are a few videos around lately that make me wonder about that sometimes.

I have told a few people about my experience and a few have told me about their bad experiences with the police.

One friend, who is about as conservative and law abiding a person as you can get, distrusts the police since his incident. He was in Huston on business, taking a rental car back to the airport. An airport shuttle was coming onto the main road that he was on....a merge/yield situation, and the shuttle came onto the road and clipped his front fender. He said he had no chance to slow down or take evasive action, and the bus was coming on to the main road. He was charged with failing to yield....and he found out later, the cop and the bus driver were buddies.

I was surprised when he said he doesn't trust cops anymore.

driver100 · November 2017

I am wondering if Kia will test that $52000 to see what the demand would be at that price. My guess, it will drop off pretty quickly if sales are slow, which they probably will be since it is an unknown competing against some of the most established cars in that category.

At about $44000 it sounds like a good little 3 Series or A4 fighter, especially for the young person with no loyalties. I love the styling, I think they nailed it for styling;

iluvmysephia1 · November 2017

No doubt. That styling rocks the house like Foghat in the Seattle Center Coliseum circa 1978.

andres3 · November 2017

sb55 said:
Hey Bradd. I used to work in Queens. Do you think that 25MPH rather than 30MPH will make any difference?
I don't remember going more than that. Maybe the Bronx is different? And, certainly not in Manhattan!

The difference is that you can be ticketed going 35 MPH at 3 AM with little traffic whereas if the speed limit was still 30 you probably would never ever get pulled over for 35. Other then that, you are right, driver's will drive whatever the 85th percentile is on average, not really paying attention to the sign unless there is heavy enforcement of it.

andres3 · November 2017

driver100 said:
My educated guess from watching Marketplace (CBC Canada) is that service managers are paid a commission based on sales. So, yeh, they will do whatever they have to to maintain whatever spiff they have already made. Who cares about 3 and 6 years down the road, he may not be there then.

The general manager would be the one to see, but, I don't hold out much hope of them easily caving in. Car companies don't care about long term...most companies don't think long term...it is only the current quarter that matters.

I think small claims court is the route to go....they may not like spending the time and getting a lawyer to protect their interest. If they were really smart they would realize they can write off the expense, count it under advertising (good will), and they may actually end up selling even more cars.

Small Claim, in CA, requires that no lawyers show up to court. However, it would still cost money and time for someone representative of the company.

I keep a picture of my last judgment in small claims court, perhaps to maybe show a future uncooperative insurance claims agent that when i say I'll take it to small claims, it isn't necessarily just a bluff (like it is with most people).

andres3 · November 2017

roadburner said:

fintail said:
Reckless driving is a minor offense?

I wonder what the input was about - intimidation, arrogant lecture, trying to get back at a speeder who insulted him? Sounds kind of crooked.

roadburner said:

I may have mentioned this before, but our citations had a box marked "ATTN" on them. If the box wasn't checked and it was a minor offense(speeding, reckless driving, etc.) it indicated that the officer didn't care what we did with the ticket. If it was checked it meant the officer wanted input into any plea and/or sentence. It helped us move things along on traffic arraignment dockets, where we sometimes had 300 or more cases- we could knock out the whole thing in under 90 minutes.

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

This might surprise you, but some people, such as my father in law, get irate when they are falsely accused of something, such as speeding. He even told the court they are damn right he became irate as he wasn't going the speed the Officer claimed.

This is the same Father-in-Law that says despite his case, where he did take it to court, and where the officer did make sure he showed up, and where he was wrongfully and unjustly found guilty, that I should just plead guilty because I know I'm guilty.

Some people are better able to control their emotions. I am as cooperative and low key as possible with officer's at the side of the road no matter how ridiculous the reason for the stop. I try to me as unmemorable as possible. Asking for the County Seat is apparently rare enough of a demand that it makes me too memorable already; why add to it?

andres3 · November 2017

fintail said:
So in other words, the cop was offended and wanted revenge. Very professional. And I suspect if the LEO was called out on it, there'd be a trumped up "contempt of court" threat. Gotta keep the money coming in, the insane bennies won't fund themselves. Corrupt, it's about cash flow. Enforcement and punishment must be consistent - but we all know it is far from it.

roadburner said:

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

I agree with you! The pleasantness of your demeanor and comments towards the officer have no bearing on the crime that has been alleged to have been committed. Unless someone has a study where rude or foul-mouthed people are shown to be more dangerous drivers than polite and clean spoken people.

If all I have to do is say how handsome or pretty an Officer is the day they pull me over, sign me up!

Can I rob banks as long as I give the Police Dept. a 10% cut of the proceeds?

Is it against the law to have a negative attitude towards Police Officer's?

andres3 · November 2017

fintail said:
Or maybe all drivers should have cameras. Just be sure you are in the right

That's one fun thing about this age, dashcams and social media. If you are wronged, there are avenues for protest and shaming. I believe the vast majority of LEOs are pretty good, but like everything else in humanity, the bad apples spoil a lot. The good ones not going after the bad might be my real issue.

driver100 said:

When I had my accident and the truck hit me, when I stopped for a yellow light, and the cop said I was partly to blame - because he has seen cars cut in front of trucks and jam on the brakes....I was tempted to call him a moron. But, I thought, my chances of coming out of that won't be good...he will nail me for something, obstructing justice or some such thing...so I politely left and then contacted his superior.

I used to back the police 100%......now, I am a little wary of them. Still basically back them, but some level of distrust. They should all wear cameras.

I'm convinced I only get pulled over by the bad ones, or else I wouldn't be pulled over, right?

Actually, there are other reasons. It could be the Officer is behind on his quota, had a slow month and is making up for it, or that they are just an over-eager young rookie cop out to save the world.

I'm not sure which professions I trust the most, but it certainly isn't the Police. I would say family first, and then friends. 1st hand recommendations from those people of other people. Firefighters seem to be cool. I like my Doctor, but I feel like a number at my Dentist.

andres3 · November 2017

driver100 said:

fintail said:
So in other words, the cop was offended and wanted revenge. Very professional. And I suspect if the LEO was called out on it, there'd be a trumped up "contempt of court" threat. Gotta keep the money coming in, the insane bennies won't fund themselves. Corrupt, it's about cash flow. Enforcement and punishment must be consistent - but we all know it is far from it.

roadburner said:

Generally it was because the guy/girl was a jackass. Crooked? How so? If any officer wanted to give their input to every plea bargain he/she certainly could- but most didn't have the time, and neither did the prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs, or judges. In my 22 years in traffic court 99% of the defendants who had the box checked conducted themselves in court in a way that validated the officer's judgment.

When I had my accident and the truck hit me, when I stopped for a yellow light, and the cop said I was partly to blame - because he has seen cars cut in front of trucks and jam on the brakes....I was tempted to call him a moron. But, I thought, my chances of coming out of that won't be good...he will nail me for something, obstructing justice or some such thing...so I politely left and then contacted his superior.

I used to back the police 100%......now, I am a little wary of them. Still basically back them, but some level of distrust. They should all wear cameras.

It's a shame humans are wired to be naive or trusting until they themselves, have a bad personal experience.

My very first traffic ticket when I was 16 or 17, and the court experience that followed cemented my worldview on both.

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