Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Michaell · December 2017

I'm sure everyone in Buffalo is feeling Mike's pain, today.

tjc78 · December 2017

driver100 said:

The carnage: Trim is damaged, lots of scratches and a dent. Poor car hasn’t even had its first oil change.

I think it could happen easier than it may seem. You park in the space, you can't see the pole, you turn your wheels a bit as you back out, you scrape the side. A lot of the new cars have sensors that ring when you get close to something...but, sometimes you may not react fast enough. I am used to the sensors and the noises they make. Now, when I back the C250 into a spot, I expect the sensor to make a noise when I get to close to the car behind me...but, I really have to think and remind myself...this car doesn't have a sensor, and the only sound I am going to hear is crashing metal.

She wasn’t backing up. She cut too close turning a corner.... in all honesty I don’t even know the whole story. All I know is I’m out $500 deductible and who knows what our insurance will go up to!

Yes... we did have a fight over it too. I really didn’t say a word, just said Ok I’ll take it to the shop and get it fixed. She explained, well we have three years to fix it. I was like... no it’s brand new and I’m not driving it like that. She knows me better than that!

graphicguy · December 2017

tjc78 said:

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:
The carnage: Trim is damaged, lots of scratches and a dent. Poor car hasn’t even had its first oil change.

I think it could happen easier than it may seem. You park in the space, you can't see the pole, you turn your wheels a bit as you back out, you scrape the side. A lot of the new cars have sensors that ring when you get close to something...but, sometimes you may not react fast enough.

I am used to the sensors and the noises they make. Now, when I back the C250 into a spot, I expect the sensor to make a noise when I get to close to the car behind me...but, I really have to think and remind myself...this car doesn't have a sensor, and the only sound I am going to hear is crashing metal.

She wasn’t backing up. She cut too close turning a corner.... in all honesty I don’t even know the whole story. All I know is I’m out $500 deductible and who knows what our insurance will go up to!

Yes... we did have a fight over it too. I really didn’t say a word, just said Ok I’ll take it to the shop and get it fixed. She explained, well we have three years to fix it. I was like... no it’s brand new and I’m not driving it like that. She knows me better than that!

Man....sorry to see that. As they say, it’s only metal. It can be fixed. That’s what I’m supposed to say. But, I do feel your pain.

I hate even having curb rash on my wheels, let alone something like that.

We share your pain!

oldfarmer50 · December 2017

tjc78 said:

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:
The carnage: Trim is damaged, lots of scratches and a dent. Poor car hasn’t even had its first oil change.

I think it could happen easier than it may seem. You park in the space, you can't see the pole, you turn your wheels a bit as you back out, you scrape the side. A lot of the new cars have sensors that ring when you get close to something...but, sometimes you may not react fast enough.

I am used to the sensors and the noises they make. Now, when I back the C250 into a spot, I expect the sensor to make a noise when I get to close to the car behind me...but, I really have to think and remind myself...this car doesn't have a sensor, and the only sound I am going to hear is crashing metal.

She wasn’t backing up. She cut too close turning a corner.... in all honesty I don’t even know the whole story. All I know is I’m out $500 deductible and who knows what our insurance will go up to!

Yes... we did have a fight over it too. I really didn’t say a word, just said Ok I’ll take it to the shop and get it fixed. She explained, well we have three years to fix it. I was like... no it’s brand new and I’m not driving it like that. She knows me better than that!

When my wife backed over a board and tore up the inner fender of her car I just took it to the shop and had it fixed without comment. She knows how protective I am of our cars and was very grateful of my calm response. I'm holding that in the bank to pull out when I screw up down the road.

driver100 · December 2017

tjc, that is really unfortunate, and I understand why you are upset, that is natural. Your poor wife did not mean to do this. One day, this will be behind you and it won't be a big deal.

The wife of my friend who has the Audi R8 has had a number of fender benders. She is about 5'4 and she insists on having a big SUV...former large MB SUV and now an Audi Q7. I think she would be better off with a smaller SUV, but because of her accidents I think she feels safer in the larger car.

I guess my point is, it may be harder for your wife to drive the Enclave than you realize...it is a lot of car.

There are no words of wisdom that will make you feel better, but, it was an accident...she didn't mean to do it.

venture · December 2017

driver100 said:
tjc, that is really unfortunate, and I understand why you are upset, that is natural. Your poor wife did not mean to do this. One day, this will be behind you and it won't be a big deal.

The wife of my friend who has the Audi R8 has had a number of fender benders. She is about 5'4 and she insists on having a big SUV...former large MB SUV and now an Audi Q7. I think she would be better off with a smaller SUV, but because of her accidents I think she feels safer in the larger car.

I guess my point is, it may be harder for your wife to drive the Enclave than you realize...it is a lot of car.

There are no words of wisdom that will make you feel better, but, it was an accident...she didn't mean to do it.

There is a school bus stop very close to our house. Most of the parents drive their kids to the bus stop since the little darlings might get tired or cold if they walk.

One mother drives an Escalade or an Expedition. She can't turn it around after the bus picks up the little monsters. She has to drive down the street and go around some way to come back up the road to her house. Occasionally I just watch.

imidazol97 · December 2017

This is when you have real damage from an accident. This won't buff out.

I posted it because this is an example of the speed cameras effect that the local Dayton gov't reactivated recently. They don't work. This is an area where they set up a portable camera in a trailer.

What kind of car is this?

qbrozen · December 2017

Driving to the Ford dealer this morn for my first service, I passed an E46 with its rear on the grass, its left rear wheel torn off the car by the curb, and having come to rest with the driver's door about 2 feet from a phone pole. Bet that dude needs a change of shorts.

fintail · December 2017

I like the idea of license endorsements for vehicles past a certain size/mass (to be fair, probably a size larger than an Enclave). Some of the stuff I see in parking garages around here is depressing.

driver100 said:
tjc, that is really unfortunate, a
I guess my point is, it may be harder for your wife to drive the Enclave than you realize...it is a lot of car.

There are no words of wisdom that will make you feel better, but, it was an accident...she didn't mean to do it.

fintail · December 2017

I am 99.9% sure that's a 00-05 Impala.

Speed cameras don't register for someone driving in a manner to create a result like that. A good chance either booze or plain old idiocy was involved. Cameras benefit camera operators and public sector coffers (and in some cases, the officials bribed to sign off on them).

imidazol97 said:
This is when you have real damage from an accident. This won't buff out.

I posted it because this is an example of the speed cameras effect that the local Dayton gov't reactivated recently. They don't work. This is an area where they set up a portable camera in a trailer.

What kind of car is this?

oldfarmer50 · December 2017

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Tell me this isn't true, the 2018 Mustang hp is under rated by Ford and the GT is really pushing 490+hp. This has to be a plot to make me jealous, right?

Ok, it isn't true.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2018-ford-mustang-gt-dyno-pull-reveals-coyote-v8-produces-415-rwhp-121385.html

Ok that's hp to the wheels. I've heard there's a 16% loss from the crank especially with an automatic so 415 + 16% = 494hp.

oldfarmer50 · December 2017

imidazol97 said:
This is when you have real damage from an accident. This won't buff out.

I posted it because this is an example of the speed cameras effect that the local Dayton gov't reactivated recently. They don't work. This is an area where they set up a portable camera in a trailer.

What kind of car is this?

I think it's a Canardly.

It's so smashed up you canardly tell what it was.

imidazol97 · December 2017

oldfarmer50 said:
I think it's a Canardly.

It's so smashed up you canardly tell what it was.

Driver passed others at about 90 mph by their reckoning before hitting two trees one after another, as I read the article.

I'm just disappointed the money-grabbers' radar cams didn't stop this speeder. A real police car with a person inside had more chance of seeing and stopping this driver. But I can drive in and out of that city and never once see a police car.

ab348 · December 2017

fintail said:
I am 99.9% sure that's a 00-05 Impala.

Agreed.

It must have been traveling at a high rate of speed to do that kind of damage. Poles in the median are metal and would shear off so that wasn't the primary impact. Most likely one or more of those mature trees. Ugly wreck.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2017

graphicguy said:
OF...I blame parents for buying their teen something like a Mustang, regardless of peer pressure. PArents are doing their children an extreme disservice for all the reasons mentioned here. It’s parental irresponsibility in the extreme.

Switching topics.....saw the biggest fuel price discrepancy I’ve ever seen today. Filled up at Costco for $2.49/gal for Premium. Drove by my nearest Krogers who was advertising $3.99/gal for Premium. WHAT?

Artisan gas?

Mr_Shiftright · December 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:
The carnage: Trim is damaged, lots of scratches and a dent. Poor car hasn’t even had its first oil change.

Looks like a new skin for the rear door and sand & repainted on the front. $1000 minimum.

Coal in her stocking for sure.

Oh I think it's going to top $2K easy, to repair all that.

tjc78 · December 2017

Thanks Guys.... yes the damage is a minor annoyance but still aggravating!

Going to let it settle for a day or two and begin process to get fixed.

@imidazol97
I agree with @fintail definitely an Impala.

qbrozen · December 2017

oldfarmer50 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Tell me this isn't true, the 2018 Mustang hp is under rated by Ford and the GT is really pushing 490+hp. This has to be a plot to make me jealous, right?

Ok, it isn't true.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2018-ford-mustang-gt-dyno-pull-reveals-coyote-v8-produces-415-rwhp-121385.html
Ok that's hp to the wheels. I've heard there's a 16% loss from the crank especially with an automatic so 415 + 16% = 494hp.

Truth is, estimated drivetrain loss is just that, and dynos are not all created equal. They advertise 460hp, and I'd bet that is pretty close to reality.

I'd like to drive one and see how it compares to my previous 420hp version. I always felt it lacked low-end grunt. With peak torque still over 4k rpms, the 2018 might not be much improved.

houdini1 · December 2017

abacomike said:
It’s 46 degrees right now and the low of 42 is slowly nearing my condo. I haven’t had to turn on the heat for many years - but I did pull out a few comforters to keep me warm and toasty through the night. In other words, “...I’m freezing my derrière off!”

Global warming is a bit*h !!

Mr_Shiftright · December 2017

Yep, one prediction for GW was temperature extremes on both ends. Makes sense if ocean currents and overall weather patterns change.

42 ain't bad. That's considered a "Mediterranean climate" normality for winter time.

graphicguy · December 2017

imidazol97 said:
This is when you have real damage from an accident. This won't buff out.

I posted it because this is an example of the speed cameras effect that the local Dayton gov't reactivated recently. They don't work. This is an area where they set up a portable camera in a trailer.

What kind of car is this?

I don’t get it. How many times do speed cameras have to be declared unconstitutional? What am I missing given these things are still around?

RB....your thoughts?

snakeweasel · December 2017

fintail said:

We all know the answer to that one I 38p0wonder how or why the kid was allowed access to that kind of money at that age. There's some kind of parenting fail in the story too, unless the kid was emancipated or something.
This discussion has covered getting new teen drivers nicer cars as their first. We've debated getting durable tanks for first year as opposed to newer which may have more safety features and nannies. Same friend in SC has adopted son who was 17 and first wanted a pickup truck. Then decided he had to have a Mustang, based on what sounds like peer influence of a best friend who is an aficionado of Mustangs. So some money the son had in his account was spent on a 2014/5 Mustang, because older ones didn't have this or that and weren't suitable. I'll let the parents in here decide what the status of the Mustang is after 4 or so months of ownership, replacing brakes, replacing tires, etc., to make it "better." (I did those things with my 67 and 70 Mustangs.) Pick A, B, C. A. Car is safe and secure having been driven only to job at grocery store and football practice. B. Car was hit by another driver in Publix supermarket lot. C. Car has been totaled because 18-year old was driving where he wasn't supposed to be on snow-covered back road while most roads were clear due to warm ground temperatures.

The next suburb over has some pretty affluent neighborhoods, homes at times breaking 7 digits. I avoid the high school at the end of the school day as newly minted drivers licenses and M class cars bought with daddies I'm trying to buy your love money don't mix to well.

I one time got rearended by a teenager driving his new BMW to his job at Burger King.

snakeweasel · December 2017

imidazol97 said:

Giving a kid a RWD car especially a Mustang anywhere it snows is just asking for trouble. Giving him a GT is suicide. Even giving him a 6 with over 300hp is dumb.
It was a 6 cylinder. I do not recall seeing it was a GT. But the tires the kid had put on were NT 555 by Nitto. They are ultra high performance SUMMER tires. Pure negligence, IMHO, in an area that some snow, sleet, and RAIN. http://www.nittotire.com/passenger-tires/nt555-summer-ultra-high-performance-tire/

Reminds me about 10 to 15 years ago I got behind a mustang with GT badging with only one exhaust pipe.

thebean · December 2017

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:
OF...I blame parents for buying their teen something like a Mustang, regardless of peer pressure. PArents are doing their children an extreme disservice for all the reasons mentioned here. It’s parental irresponsibility in the extreme.

Switching topics.....saw the biggest fuel price discrepancy I’ve ever seen today. Filled up at Costco for $2.49/gal for Premium. Drove by my nearest Krogers who was advertising $3.99/gal for Premium. WHAT?
Artisan gas?

From free-range dinosaurs.

imidazol97 · December 2017

graphicguy said:
I don’t get it. How many times do speed cameras have to be declared unconstitutional? What am I missing given these things are still around?
RB....your thoughts?

RB's in the wrong state... Ohio has "home rule." Somehow the cities say that means they can do as they please about giving out bills for speeding without due course as in a hearing before being pronounced guilty.

Our legislators, so called, passed a law that there had to be a policeman present for each photo billing taken from a speed or red light camera. A few cities saw $$$ flying away and won a suit that went to the supreme court. They gleefully have announced they have turned back on their cameras--Dayton and Trotwood. And every citation about their reasons by the story-writers in the local media carries the pronouncement that the cameras stop red light running and slow cars down, magically, somehow. And that the cities are only doing this for safety.

My own legislator, an insurance salesman guy, responded when I asked what was being done about these rogue cities by saying the State is withholding money they dole out to local entities equal to what they collect in "bills" to the criminals running and speeding. Then he also said that the cities say it reduces accidents and is for safety.

thebean · December 2017

I spent Saturday driving around Dallas doing errands, and it depressed me that at least 60% of the vehicles on the road were either medium to large pickups or SUV's and 60% of those had ONE person in them. It was like driving in a corn maze trying to see around these numbskulls. About a month ago, a friend of mine from Germany was in NY/NJ/Pennsylvania and asked me why people drove such monstrous vehicles. I had no good answer except to say that we are a dumb, ego-driven country. I told him he should come down to a Texas and he would be amazed. It's huge vehicle Disneyland down here.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the big SUV's and pickups as daily drivers, especially for women. If you need to transport 5 or more people, a minivan is much more efficient. If you occasionally need to haul something, you can rent a truck for pocket change. I think we Americans are the most wasteful consumers in the world. Is image and perceived "prestige" all some people think about when they buy a vehicle?

I know people will point to safety as a reason to buy a huge vehicle, but if there were very few of these battering rams, driving would be safer and everyone would not need to drive behemoths everywhere they go. Don't even get me started on all the idiots glued to their phones going 70 mph on a crowded highway. Somehow, and I can't point to a tipping point, we Americans collectively have lost massive IQ points in the past 40 years when it comes to our vehicles.

Maybe I need to move to Greenland.

isellhondas · December 2017

houdini1 said:

abacomike said:
It’s 46 degrees right now and the low of 42 is slowly nearing my condo. I haven’t had to turn on the heat for many years - but I did pull out a few comforters to keep me warm and toasty through the night. In other words, “...I’m freezing my derrière off!”
Global warming is a bit*h !!

Gee Mike, I hope you can survive that cold front! so much for Global warming!

ab348 · December 2017

thebean said:

Maybe I need to move to Greenland.

I get the same feeling about living in Canada, but for different reasons.

On the subject of massive vehicles, aside from the disparity in results should one crash into a smaller car, the more common negative effect I experience comes in parking lots. If you end up parking between or next to one of those Peterbilt-sized machines, you cannot see if the way out is clear nor can oncoming vehicles see me.

stickguy · December 2017

Best invention is the rear cross path monitoring part of BLIS. I had same situation today in the Elantra. Between 2 trucks, flying blind. The alerts are a huge help.

oldfarmer50 · December 2017

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Tell me this isn't true, the 2018 Mustang hp is under rated by Ford and the GT is really pushing 490+hp. This has to be a plot to make me jealous, right?

Ok, it isn't true.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2018-ford-mustang-gt-dyno-pull-reveals-coyote-v8-produces-415-rwhp-121385.html

Ok that's hp to the wheels. I've heard there's a 16% loss from the crank especially with an automatic so 415 + 16% = 494hp.

Truth is, estimated drivetrain loss is just that, and dynos are not all created equal. They advertise 460hp, and I'd bet that is pretty close to reality.

I'd like to drive one and see how it compares to my previous 420hp version. I always felt it lacked low-end grunt. With peak torque still over 4k rpms, the 2018 might not be much improved.

what rear end did yours have? Mine has the girlie 3:15 which gives it 30 mpg but forces me to use sport mode to really see some grunt. At the time I had a choice between two identical cars but the one with 3:55s was 200 miles away. I went for the gas mileage and have second guessed myself ever since.

I wish some of these auto mags that tested the car with the 3:73 performance pack rear end would do a comparison of real world gas mileage effects.

oldfarmer50 · December 2017

snakeweasel said:

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Giving a kid a RWD car especially a Mustang anywhere it snows is just asking for trouble.

Giving him a GT is suicide.

Even giving him a 6 with over 300hp is dumb.
It was a 6 cylinder. I do not recall seeing it was a GT. But the tires the kid had put on were

NT 555 by Nitto. They are ultra high performance SUMMER tires. Pure negligence, IMHO, in an area that some snow, sleet, and RAIN.

http://www.nittotire.com/passenger-tires/nt555-summer-ultra-high-performance-tire/

Reminds me about 10 to 15 years ago I got behind a mustang with GT badging with only one exhaust pipe.

Maybe one of the mufflers rusted off.

snakeweasel · December 2017

graphicguy said:

This is when you have real damage from an accident. This won't buff out. I posted it because this is an example of the speed cameras effect that the local Dayton gov't reactivated recently. They don't work. This is an area where they set up a portable camera in a trailer. What kind of car is this?
I don’t get it. How many times do speed cameras have to be declared unconstitutional? What am I missing given these things are still around? RB....your thoughts?

How is the fault of speed cameras?

laurasdada · December 2017

Life long New Englander, I like snow. Winter sans snow is depressing, cold and gray. I ski! Other than the Jag XK, all my cars have been FWD/AWD, no real issues in driving through blizzards to get to Vermont/NH/Maine to ski (and no need for an SUV, either). Although, my OEM Contis are at 6/32...

Given all the wacky weather in many other parts of the country, I think New England is where I'll stay for a bit. We get four-ish seasons. Snow melts. It's beautiful. It's skiable.

Heading to LA this week, my Dad has been housebound for a bit due to air quality/smoke from the SoCal fires. But, my family, while close to the flames, say they are, and should be, OK.

driver100 · December 2017

Speaking of single exhaust pipes I saw a Porsche Boxster the other day and it had a single exhaust in the MIDDLE! What's the deal there....looks odd to me?

driver100 · December 2017

="imidazol97"

What kind of car is this?

A very smashed up one!

abacomike · December 2017

laurasdada said:
Life long New Englander, I like snow. Winter sans snow is depressing, cold and gray. I ski! Other than the Jag XK, all my cars have been FWD/AWD, no real issues in driving through blizzards to get to Vermont/NH/Maine to ski (and no need for an SUV, either). Although, my OEM Contis are at 6/32...

Given all the wacky weather in many other parts of the country, I think New England is where I'll stay for a bit. We get four-ish seasons. Snow melts. It's beautiful. It's skiable.

Heading to LA this week, my Dad has been housebound for a bit due to air quality/smoke from the SoCal fires. But, my family, while close to the flames, say they are, and should be, OK.

When I lived in Southern California back in the 90's, we would often be affected by brush fires. As you mentioned, the air quality suffers substantially as a result of the smoke. Riverside County west of the Palm Springs area (Coachella Valley) is often affected - especially in San Bernardino and up in the mountainous areas north of the valley in Lake Arrowhead and Big Bear Lake. I hope by the time you get out there, the fires are under control. These past few weeks have been horrendous.

ab348 · December 2017

laurasdada said:
Life long New Englander, I like snow. Winter sans snow is depressing, cold and gray.

Winter with snow is miserable, hazardous, depressing, cold and gray. Nothing good about it IMO.

abacomike · December 2017

driver100 said:
="imidazol97"

What kind of car is this?

A very smashed up one!

Rather than, "...What kind of car is this?...", the correct statement should be, "...What kind of car WAS that?"

imidazol97 · December 2017

The car was safe--the driver survived.

laurasdada · December 2017

ab348 said:

laurasdada said:
Life long New Englander, I like snow. Winter sans snow is depressing, cold and gray.
Winter with snow is miserable, hazardous, depressing, cold and gray. Nothing good about it IMO.

My advice to you is to dress properly, visit Vermont and ski the Green Mountains. Follow that with a dip in a hot tub and a good meal. Heaven!

Of course, I am the only one in my family that feels this way... Maybe I was dropped on my head in a snow bank early in life?!

roadburner · December 2017

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:
This is when you have real damage from an accident. This won't buff out.

I posted it because this is an example of the speed cameras effect that the local Dayton gov't reactivated recently. They don't work. This is an area where they set up a portable camera in a trailer.

What kind of car is this?

I don’t get it. How many times do speed cameras have to be declared unconstitutional? What am I missing given these things are still around?

RB....your thoughts?

The way states get around that pesky United States Constitution is to classify the traffic infractions as administrative rather than criminal. Kentucky hasn't fallen into that trap so no cameras and there is a right to trial by jury for any moving violation.

qbrozen · December 2017

thebean said:

I spent Saturday driving around Dallas doing errands, and it depressed me that at least 60% of the vehicles on the road were either medium to large pickups or SUV's and 60% of those had ONE person in them. It was like driving in a corn maze trying to see around these numbskulls. About a month ago, a friend of mine from Germany was in NY/NJ/Pennsylvania and asked me why people drove such monstrous vehicles. I had no good answer except to say that we are a dumb, ego-driven country. I told him he should come down to a Texas and he would be amazed. It's huge vehicle Disneyland down here. I just don't understand the reasoning behind the big SUV's and pickups as daily drivers, especially for women. If you need to transport 5 or more people, a minivan is much more efficient. If you occasionally need to haul something, you can rent a truck for pocket change. I think we Americans are the most wasteful consumers in the world. Is image and perceived "prestige" all some people think about when they buy a vehicle? I know people will point to safety as a reason to buy a huge vehicle, but if there were very few of these battering rams, driving would be safer and everyone would not need to drive behemoths everywhere they go. Don't even get me started on all the idiots glued to their phones going 70 mph on a crowded highway. Somehow, and I can't point to a tipping point, we Americans collectively have lost massive IQ points in the past 40 years when it comes to our vehicles. Maybe I need to move to Greenland.

Wow. Way to be unbiased.

your assertion that a minivan is more effecient is incorrect. My F150 beats our '08 T&C (and '09 LR2) easily. Just about a dead heat with my previous EX35, CTS, G35x, Lincoln LS, and Mustang. Our '14 T&C wins by 1 whopping mpg. Meanwhile, compared to my previous "socially acceptable" vehicles, I have the added advantage of 4WD, very comfy seating for 6, and the ability to carry things the minivan fails to (such as the kids loft beds we got last month). So why again am I am "numbskull" according to you? Perception is not always reality, my friend.

nyccarguy · December 2017

qbrozen said:

thebean said:

I spent Saturday driving around Dallas doing errands, and it depressed me that at least 60% of the vehicles on the road were either medium to large pickups or SUV's and 60% of those had ONE person in them. It was like driving in a corn maze trying to see around these numbskulls. About a month ago, a friend of mine from Germany was in NY/NJ/Pennsylvania and asked me why people drove such monstrous vehicles. I had no good answer except to say that we are a dumb, ego-driven country. I told him he should come down to a Texas and he would be amazed. It's huge vehicle Disneyland down here. I just don't understand the reasoning behind the big SUV's and pickups as daily drivers, especially for women. If you need to transport 5 or more people, a minivan is much more efficient. If you occasionally need to haul something, you can rent a truck for pocket change. I think we Americans are the most wasteful consumers in the world. Is image and perceived "prestige" all some people think about when they buy a vehicle? I know people will point to safety as a reason to buy a huge vehicle, but if there were very few of these battering rams, driving would be safer and everyone would not need to drive behemoths everywhere they go. Don't even get me started on all the idiots glued to their phones going 70 mph on a crowded highway. Somehow, and I can't point to a tipping point, we Americans collectively have lost massive IQ points in the past 40 years when it comes to our vehicles. Maybe I need to move to Greenland.

Wow. Way to be unbiased.

your assertion that a minivan is more effecient is incorrect. My F150 beats our '08 T&C (and '09 LR2) easily. Just about a dead heat with my previous EX35, CTS, G35x, Lincoln LS, and Mustang. Our '14 T&C wins by 1 whopping mpg. Meanwhile, compared to my previous "socially acceptable" vehicles, I have the added advantage of 4WD, very comfy seating for 6, and the ability to carry things the minivan fails to (such as the kids loft beds we got last month). So why again am I am "numbskull" according to you? Perception is not always reality, my friend.

So true. I work for my Dad. He lives about 32 miles north west and I live about 32 miles north east of here. He drives a 2015 V8 powered 4WD Tahoe. I drive a smaller, V6 powered AWD Infiniti. We average about the exact same 19.5 mpg.

tbirdmarco · December 2017

iI think those trafick camrias should go! just my two sence!

tbirdmarco · December 2017

as for peapol driving big big SUVS and not smaller SUVS or cars persanal choice! but if you don't nead sum thing that big I would not get it! if nead go for it! if you just want sum thing big hey you only live once go for it!

abacomike · December 2017

nyccarguy said:

qbrozen said:

thebean said:

I spent Saturday driving around Dallas doing errands, and it depressed me that at least 60% of the vehicles on the road were either medium to large pickups or SUV's and 60% of those had ONE person in them. It was like driving in a corn maze trying to see around these numbskulls. About a month ago, a friend of mine from Germany was in NY/NJ/Pennsylvania and asked me why people drove such monstrous vehicles. I had no good answer except to say that we are a dumb, ego-driven country. I told him he should come down to a Texas and he would be amazed. It's huge vehicle Disneyland down here. I just don't understand the reasoning behind the big SUV's and pickups as daily drivers, especially for women. If you need to transport 5 or more people, a minivan is much more efficient. If you occasionally need to haul something, you can rent a truck for pocket change. I think we Americans are the most wasteful consumers in the world. Is image and perceived "prestige" all some people think about when they buy a vehicle? I know people will point to safety as a reason to buy a huge vehicle, but if there were very few of these battering rams, driving would be safer and everyone would not need to drive behemoths everywhere they go. Don't even get me started on all the idiots glued to their phones going 70 mph on a crowded highway. Somehow, and I can't point to a tipping point, we Americans collectively have lost massive IQ points in the past 40 years when it comes to our vehicles. Maybe I need to move to Greenland.

Wow. Way to be unbiased.

your assertion that a minivan is more effecient is incorrect. My F150 beats our '08 T&C (and '09 LR2) easily. Just about a dead heat with my previous EX35, CTS, G35x, Lincoln LS, and Mustang. Our '14 T&C wins by 1 whopping mpg. Meanwhile, compared to my previous "socially acceptable" vehicles, I have the added advantage of 4WD, very comfy seating for 6, and the ability to carry things the minivan fails to (such as the kids loft beds we got last month). So why again am I am "numbskull" according to you? Perception is not always reality, my friend.

So true. I work for my Dad. He lives about 32 miles north west and I live about 32 miles north east of here. He drives a 2015 V8 powered 4WD Tahoe. I drive a smaller, V6 powered AWD Infiniti. We average about the exact same 19.5 mpg.

True, but when you live in the northeast, you’re driving downhill. Right? But going return home in the evenings, you drive uphill. Right?

murphydog · December 2017

qbrozen said:

thebean said:

I spent Saturday driving around Dallas doing errands, and it depressed me that at least 60% of the vehicles on the road were either medium to large pickups or SUV's and 60% of those had ONE person in them. It was like driving in a corn maze trying to see around these numbskulls. About a month ago, a friend of mine from Germany was in NY/NJ/Pennsylvania and asked me why people drove such monstrous vehicles. I had no good answer except to say that we are a dumb, ego-driven country. I told him he should come down to a Texas and he would be amazed. It's huge vehicle Disneyland down here.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the big SUV's and pickups as daily drivers, especially for women. If you need to transport 5 or more people, a minivan is much more efficient. If you occasionally need to haul something, you can rent a truck for pocket change. I think we Americans are the most wasteful consumers in the world. Is image and perceived "prestige" all some people think about when they buy a vehicle?

I know people will point to safety as a reason to buy a huge vehicle, but if there were very few of these battering rams, driving would be safer and everyone would not need to drive behemoths everywhere they go. Don't even get me started on all the idiots glued to their phones going 70 mph on a crowded highway. Somehow, and I can't point to a tipping point, we Americans collectively have lost massive IQ points in the past 40 years when it comes to our vehicles.

Maybe I need to move to Greenland.

Wow. Way to be unbiased.

your assertion that a minivan is more effecient is incorrect. My F150 beats our '08 T&C (and '09 LR2) easily. Just about a dead heat with my previous EX35, CTS, G35x, Lincoln LS, and Mustang. Our '14 T&C wins by 1 whopping mpg. Meanwhile, compared to my previous "socially acceptable" vehicles, I have the added advantage of 4WD, very comfy seating for 6, and the ability to carry things the minivan fails to (such as the kids loft beds we got last month). So why again am I am "numbskull" according to you? Perception is not always reality, my friend.

I agree Q - in fact in this neck of the woods the dangerous drivers not paying attention to those around them are the prius drivers who seem more focused on the "eco video game" playing out on their dash board.

Vehicles are a personal choice - I have a full size pick up that I typically use on the weekends and when we pickup and haul items related to owning a horse, that said I occasionally drive it around town. However I don't drive it to and from work as I have alternatives that work better for that. Not sure why the need for such sweeping judgement.

murphydog · December 2017

Just noticed that one of the LED tail lights went out on the 2013 X3 - did some research and the LED is part of the housing and not replaceable like a typical light bulb. Figured no big deal, covered under CPO warranty....Nope, not covered and replacing the housing is $450! I asked the service tech to see if BMW HQ will throw in a goodwill replacement.

Dug a bit deeper and this appears to be a very common issue, the control board for the LED lights has weak solder joints that can crack. Several YouTube videos show what a simple fix it is.

That said I can't believe there isn't a recall as having your tail lights go out seems like a clear safety issue.

28firefighter · December 2017

murphydog said:
Just noticed that one of the LED tail lights went out on the 2013 X3 - did some research and the LED is part of the housing and not replaceable like a typical light bulb. Figured no big deal, covered under CPO warranty....Nope, not covered and replacing the housing is $450! I asked the service tech to see if BMW HQ will throw in a goodwill replacement.

Dug a bit deeper and this appears to be a very common issue, the control board for the LED lights has weak solder joints that can crack. Several YouTube videos show what a simple fix it is.

That said I can't believe there isn't a recall as having your tail lights go out seems like a clear safety issue.

Figures. I love German cars but this is a perfect example of over-engineering.

murphydog · December 2017

28firefighter said:

murphydog said:
Just noticed that one of the LED tail lights went out on the 2013 X3 - did some research and the LED is part of the housing and not replaceable like a typical light bulb. Figured no big deal, covered under CPO warranty....Nope, not covered and replacing the housing is $450! I asked the service tech to see if BMW HQ will throw in a goodwill replacement.

Dug a bit deeper and this appears to be a very common issue, the control board for the LED lights has weak solder joints that can crack. Several YouTube videos show what a simple fix it is.

That said I can't believe there isn't a recall as having your tail lights go out seems like a clear safety issue.
Figures. I love German cars but this is a perfect example of over-engineering.

No kidding! hopefully our repair goes as smooth as the video. That poor guy had to repair 3 of the 4 boards on his X3. So far only one on mine....

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