Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97 · December 2018

snakeweasel said:
Actually DDT isn't anywhere near as bad as it was said to be. Unless it's used in exceedingly high amounts it's relatively safe. Several countries in Africa use it with great success with very little side effects. "Silent Spring" was filled with poor science.

Silent Spring and lot of current "pop" science is wrong or misused.

DDT would have taken care of the bedbug problems that resurfaced in this country. Instead there's a long difficult road to that. I know Columbus OHIO was reported to have had a high bedbug problem when my son was in college there.

The DDT was another of the screamer problems where people who aren't truly scientific in the analysis but rather have an agenda make lots of noise and are often joined by Hollywood elites or TV face elites now in screaming about how the world is ending. I remember alar I believe it was that supposedly was poisoning us all and the end of the world was near. Usually a music or movie elite would adopt some cause similar to that as their cause--actually their way of getting their name in the news.

Sort of like today with high visibility names.

graphicguy · December 2018

snakeweasel said:

graphicguy said:
Anytime an elected official tries to suppress legitimate reporting via the media, it is a direct attack on the 1st Amendment.
No it's not, we still have a free press and they can report on anything they want, but an elected official has his or her choice in how to communicate to the general public.

“
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
A REAL scandal is the one sided coverage, hour by hour, of networks like NBC & Democrat spin machines like Saturday Night Live. It is all nothing less than unfair news coverage and Dem commercials. Should be tested in courts, can’t be legal? Only defame & belittle! Collusion?

96.6K
8:58 AM - Dec 16, 2018”

Threatening legal repercussions for the press who report unflatteringly of an elected official? That’s an attack on the 1st Ammendment. As they say, we’re headed towards a Constitutional crisis of magnum proportions.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2018

I think we are crossing the threshold for POLITICS here and we need to avoid that. Let's keep the peace and leave politics to more suitable websites!

Your cooperation is much appreciated!

graphicguy · December 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think we are crossing the threshold for POLITICS here and we need to avoid that. Let's keep the peace and leave politics to more suitable websites!

Your cooperation is much appreciated!

Fair enough!

ab348 · December 2018

driver100 said:

The funniest part is the guys laughing. I don't think those jackels in the car helped her.....I think it was the gas station attendant. Maybe she thought she needed fuel, because the gauge was showing it was getting low in power.

Those guys didn't impress me much. I could understand some laughing at the start but you would think a decent person would have gotten out at some point and had a talk with her.

I too am wondering what possessed her to visit the pumps in the first place.

oldfarmer50 · December 2018

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:
Actually DDT isn't anywhere near as bad as it was said to be. Unless it's used in exceedingly high amounts it's relatively safe. Several countries in Africa use it with great success with very little side effects. "Silent Spring" was filled with poor science.
Silent Spring and lot of current "pop" science is wrong or misused.

DDT would have taken care of the bedbug problems that resurfaced in this country. Instead there's a long difficult road to that. I know Columbus OHIO was reported to have had a high bedbug problem when my son was in college there.

The DDT was another of the screamer problems where people who aren't truly scientific in the analysis but rather have an agenda make lots of noise and are often joined by Hollywood elites or TV face elites now in screaming about how the world is ending. I remember alar I believe it was that supposedly was poisoning us all and the end of the world was near. Usually a music or movie elite would adopt some cause similar to that as their cause--actually their way of getting their name in the news.

Sort of like today with high visibility names.

DDT’s strength and it’s weakness was it’s longevity. It would persist where used and not only kill the pests but their offspring when the eggs hatched. That same persistence made it build up in the environment. I remember reading some time ago that we all still had trace amounts of DDT in our bodies years after it was discontinued.

The uproar over DDT resulted in the development of new pesticides that broke down quickly which required repeat application. That made the chemical companies very happy since they could sell much more of the “new” pesticides than the old more effective DDT.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2018

It all falls under The Law of Unintended Consequences, which has brought the downfall of many a man, woman, company or empire!

driver100 · December 2018

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

The funniest part is the guys laughing. I don't think those jackels in the car helped her.....I think it was the gas station attendant. Maybe she thought she needed fuel, because the gauge was showing it was getting low in power.
I too am wondering what possessed her to visit the pumps in the first place.

Maybe she promised her husband she would fill the car with fuel before returning the car to him.
How in the heck are you supposed to read the ~~fuel~~ power remaining gauge anyway?

explorerx4 · December 2018

From that picture, it seems pretty obvious the car is fully charged and hasn't gone anywhere since then.

tjc78 · December 2018

I'm such a sucker.... my son sees a commercial for shoes that charge up with a USB port and then they can light them up. I was looking for another pair of shoes for each of them anyway so jumped online and snagged a pair for each kid.

I'm sure they won't last long and are a gimmick, but were on sale and I had a $10 reward to use so it was $80 for both shipped to my house.

Spoiled rotten!! Each kid probably has more shoes than I do.

qbrozen · December 2018

explorerx4 said:

From that picture, it seems pretty obvious the car is fully charged and hasn't gone anywhere since then.

I'm not seeing it. I'm assuming that 100% on the left is for a connected cell phone. Is the right side of the speedometer the charge gauge?

houdini2 · December 2018

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

tyguy said:

graphicguy said:

houdini2 said:

graphicguy said:
Anytime an elected official tries to suppress legitimate reporting via the media, it is a direct attack on the 1st Amendment.
Yeah, the key word there is "legitimate".
True...with what we now know of the conspiracy fallacies and influence of foreign and entities into the spread of those fallacies, it’s even more important for our established media outlets to report without political interference.
100% agree, GG. Unfortunately I don't think there's even one media outlet left simply reporting the facts. You have to wade through the bias to get to anything useful.
Bias doesn't matter if the facts speak for themselves, right? If I choose, say, in my publication, ONLY to report all the defects with Honda cars, and nothing about GM, or nothing good about Honda---well that's "bias" but still the truth (presuming I didn't make up the thing about the defects).

What the Russkies do is a bit different, and they are VERY good at it. They would give you 20% very accurate information on Honda, which you could then verify, and then feed you 80% false info. Worse yet, these lies would then be often repeated by either willing or, often, unwitting accomplices in the American media.

I guess you could say the same about "road tests", although I don't think the Russians interfere too much in those!

I think we’re violently agreeing. The mere fact that a foreign power, one that we’ve traditionally had a contentious relationship with, was able to help sway an election through a misinformation campaign should be scary enough. Never thought I’d see that in my lifetime. But, here we are.

We all know which media carries a biased agenda. Stay clear and use facts as a guide. I read the NYT, WSJ and the Washington Post. Sometimes I’ll sneak a peak at USA Today. I do like CBS Sunday Morning. But, I don’t even watch the local news anymore.

I read all the ones you mentioned, plus Fox News, Brietbart and a few others just to see the various differing viewpoints. But all of them are biased to some extent.

houdini2 · December 2018

graphicguy said:

snakeweasel said:

graphicguy said:
Anytime an elected official tries to suppress legitimate reporting via the media, it is a direct attack on the 1st Amendment.
No it's not, we still have a free press and they can report on anything they want, but an elected official has his or her choice in how to communicate to the general public.
“
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
A REAL scandal is the one sided coverage, hour by hour, of networks like NBC & Democrat spin machines like Saturday Night Live. It is all nothing less than unfair news coverage and Dem commercials. Should be tested in courts, can’t be legal? Only defame & belittle! Collusion?

96.6K
8:58 AM - Dec 16, 2018”

Threatening legal repercussions for the press who report unflatteringly of an elected official? That’s an attack on the 1st Ammendment. As they say, we’re headed towards a Constitutional crisis of magnum proportions.

By the same token, aren't you attacking President Trump's first amendment rights?

ab348 · December 2018

explorerx4 said:
From that picture, it seems pretty obvious the car is fully charged and hasn't gone anywhere since then.

Maybe. But that big circular gauge in the center confuses me. The scale on the left looks like speed, but what is going on with the right side of the circle?

[Deleted User] · December 2018

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:
From that picture, it seems pretty obvious the car is fully charged and hasn't gone anywhere since then.
Maybe. But that big circular gauge in the center confuses me. The scale on the left looks like speed, but what is going on with the right side of the circle?

The battery icon with 100% is the vehicle's battery capacity, which can also be changed to miles instead of percent. My wife likes miles, so her profile is set that way when she drives, but my profile shows percent as I prefer that view. The right side shows consumption based on different time intervals, including a trip meter. My Model 3 looks way different than Model S shown, but the same information is available. Think of it like a miles-per-gallon meter coupled with a distance-to-empty estimate based on recent driving, and you have the ability to change how many of the previous miles you drove in that distance calculation.

For the dial, the left side is another view of MPH. On the right side, the upper half is how much power a vehicle is consuming, and the bottom half is how much electricity is regenerated and fed back to the battery.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

bwia said:
Laughter, the best medicine. Watch a woman try to put petrol in Tesla Model S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPg2Mi2roI
At least they eventually took pity and explained it to her. I wonder what made her think it needed fuel in the first place?

She just skipped a step. First, natural gas has to be pumped into the power station that generates the electricity for her Tesla.

Statistically that's probably true. Or it could be coal, or, like about a third of Tesla owners, it could be home solar. Or even smaller chance of grid hydro, solar, wind, or nuclear.

If it's coal or natural gas, well, if you believe the source:
https://forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/03/14/charging-an-electric-vehicle-is-far-cleaner-than-driving-on-gasoline-everywhere-in-america/#7e8c105d71f8

[Deleted User] · December 2018

tjc78 said:
This is funny.... I hope it’s fake. On a similar note, just talked to my cousin. He stopped for Diesel for his brand new 70K pickup. A few miles down the road the truck went into limp home mode, then shut down. Apparently there was gas in the diesel tank and it caused 11k in damage.

That's awful. Similar thing happened to my mom's brand new Silverado diesel about 15 years ago when the dealer filled the tank with gasoline. Lot's of damage. I hope it works out for your cousin and they take care of him as they should.

driver100 · December 2018

tyguy said:

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:
From that picture, it seems pretty obvious the car is fully charged and hasn't gone anywhere since then.
Maybe. But that big circular gauge in the center confuses me. The scale on the left looks like speed, but what is going on with the right side of the circle?

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:
From that picture, it seems pretty obvious the car is fully charged and hasn't gone anywhere since then.
Maybe. But that big circular gauge in the center confuses me. The scale on the left looks like speed, but what is going on with the right side of the circle?
The battery icon with 100% is the vehicle's battery capacity, which can also be changed to miles instead of percent. My wife likes miles, so her profile is set that way when she drives, but my profile shows percent as I prefer that view. The right side shows consumption based on different time intervals, including a trip meter. My Model 3 looks way different than Model S shown, but the same information is available. Think of it like a miles-per-gallon meter coupled with a distance-to-empty estimate based on recent driving, and you have the ability to change how many of the previous miles you drove in that distance calculation.

For the dial, the left side is another view of MPH. On the right side, the upper half is how much power a vehicle is consuming, and the bottom half is how much electricity is regenerated and fed back to the battery.

Ty, OK, got the round dial now.....although not sure what regenerated electricity will do for me in the big scheme of things. Whether miles or percentage.....how do I know how many miles I can still go.......and what if it starts to get hot and I turn on the air conditioner at full speed? And, where is that reading?

[Deleted User] · December 2018

xwesx said:

Well, don't climb too high up on that box, Ty. Battery production is no green industry, either! Not that we aren't on a good path with it and making breakthroughs in efficiency/effectiveness, but it still takes quite a few miles before an ICE vehicle is "less clean" than an EV.

I don't disagree. Lithium is primarily sourced from Latin America and Australia, though the largest reserves are in the ocean. There's an impact to extract it, process the metal, and then ship it to Nevada for production. No doubt there is pollution created to make the battery. I had to choose between an upfront environmental hit to make the battery, or 20+ years ongoing pollution and foreign oil dependence. Research I've read indicates that battery production is still far cleaner than a typical ICE, but there's a lot of room for improvement, particularly in the eventual recycling needs.

To be totally candid here, I work in environmental science, water specifically, but that's only been for the last decade. Before that I specialized in oil refineries where I helped them produce diesel and gasoline at faster rates and in safer ways. Plus we'll still keep the 4-cylinder Outback for another 4 years and we own watercraft that we'll probably keep another 4 years. My hands aren't totally clean here.

My wife is also in water science, so we've been conscious of that area of our environment for a long time. Five years ago we made a commitment to start working towards lowering our energy footprint starting with a very efficient home and the installation of solar panels that produce way more than the house needs. The extra production was always intended for a single electric vehicle, which we now have. We love the Tesla so much that we're now thinking of another EV to replace the Outback, and adding additional solar production to compensate for the extra draw. Our utility just committed to 100% renewable in 11 years, though, so if that happens, we won't bother with the extra home solar.

I'm not suggesting everyone reading this needs to jump out and get an EV to save the world. Changing to renewable and sustainable energy is a journey and we're very early in it. But, if it's going to happen, then we need to show government and companies there is demand for it, so early adopters are needed to drive the research and development. I'm okay being one of those people.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

fintail said:
If I have learned anything from this, it is that pollution and environmental impacts are just fine if they are in someone else's backyard

xwesx said:

Well, don't climb too high up on that box, Ty. Battery production is no green industry, either! Not that we aren't on a good path with it and making breakthroughs in efficiency/effectiveness, but it still takes quite a few miles before an ICE vehicle is "less clean" than an EV.

I find that truly offensive. You have no idea my buying habits. In fact, I work very hard to research almost every purchase I make. I look for production in countries with strong environmental laws in addition to enforcement, including North America, Europe, and Japan as my preferred countries. My purchases reflect that. China and other like countries are last on my list, but, unfortunately, sometimes they can't be avoided.

cdnpinhead · December 2018

EVs depend on the grid, which is mostly coal or nuclear sourced in my part of the world. In the Pacific NW there's lots of water power, but that's not the case most other places, and natural gas is certainly making an impact. Wind and solar need a storage system before anyone with an IQ above 70 will take them seriously.

ab348 · December 2018

In places like Nova Scotia, wind and solar power is used to replace power from coal, nat gas or oil, which makes up the majority of our generation capacity. So no storage is required since those plants throttle back when the wind blows or the sun shines.

TPTB have been trying to make tidal power with no success here for many years.

fintail · December 2018

I don't recall saying anything about any specific person/poster here, so um I guess so? I think some may have purchased a coolish new car and might take any criticism of matters even tangentially related to it a little personally

no offense is meant.

I live in a shoebox not far from work, rather than a massive drafty mcmansion in an outlying suburb. That's enough to give me no guilt for driving an internal combustion vehicle. Heck, I drove my old car today, probably cancelled out a couple hundred Tesla just by turning the key

tyguy said:

I find that truly offensive. You have no idea my buying habits. In fact, I work very hard to research almost every purchase I make. I look for production in countries with strong environmental laws in addition to enforcement, including North America, Europe, and Japan as my preferred countries. My purchases reflect that. China and other like countries are last on my list, but, unfortunately, sometimes they can't be avoided.

tifighter · December 2018

Some topical youtube viewing-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM

imidazol97 · December 2018

I believe there will be a place for both types of vehicles. Different people's driving will net different choices for higher efficiency in terms of cost as well as environment.

What has to be watched is the tendency of various groups to support each other's statements and believe they are correct in their thinking scientifically and try to impose that onto everyone else. Careful analysis needs to be done.

As I've indicated were my driving like it was 10-15 years ago, I likely would consider a Volt, 3, or S now that the ability to leave home within a range and return are present.

I found the Prious self-righteousness a bit much in the old days. Considering the environmental damage of mining for battery materials and the processing of them can leave. But as long as it was in someone else's backyard many were happy to overlook it. Just the same as the electric power generation being 80 miles away at a coal or gas-fired plant made some EV early owners feel very good about their own role.

I can't tell you where the nearest Tesla store is other than Easton Center on the east side of Columbus.

A side note is that I recall an article about Solar City (a Musk group?) and somehow there was a scheme to have them paid to provide electric panels to generate power for the Tesla charging stations. The article found something wrong in that process.

But overall solar panels that can keep up with the demands of the charging station underneath rather than generating power at a distance. What a neat idea.

I drive past a company call Assurance IIRC along I70 near Springfield that has solar panels giving shade to the parking lot for their employees. I'd be interested in how they use and benefit from the cost/return on that. Or did the government supply a large part of "free" money for the trial.

fintail · December 2018

Give me real world 500 mile range and some better charging infrastructure (and real plans for the grid if everyone goes EV), and I'll get an EV asap.

Until then, I'll embrace my diesel and enjoy every mile.

oldfarmer50 · December 2018

tyguy said:

tjc78 said:
This is funny.... I hope it’s fake. On a similar note, just talked to my cousin. He stopped for Diesel for his brand new 70K pickup. A few miles down the road the truck went into limp home mode, then shut down. Apparently there was gas in the diesel tank and it caused 11k in damage.
That's awful. Similar thing happened to my mom's brand new Silverado diesel about 15 years ago when the dealer filled the tank with gasoline. Lot's of damage. I hope it works out for your cousin and they take care of him as they should.

https://youtu.be/fXwFpPhug8Y

oldfarmer50 · December 2018

ab348 said:
In places like Nova Scotia, wind and solar power is used to replace power from coal, nat gas or oil, which makes up the majority of our generation capacity. So no storage is required since those plants throttle back when the wind blows or the sun shines.

TPTB have been trying to make tidal owner with no success here for many years.

Is that in the Bay of Fundy?

28firefighter · December 2018

Guys. It the holidays. Can’t we at least pretend to respect our different opinions?

oldfarmer50 · December 2018

tyguy said:

xwesx said:

Well, don't climb too high up on that box, Ty. Battery production is no green industry, either! Not that we aren't on a good path with it and making breakthroughs in efficiency/effectiveness, but it still takes quite a few miles before an ICE vehicle is "less clean" than an EV.
I don't disagree. Lithium is primarily sourced from Latin America and Australia, though the largest reserves are in the ocean. There's an impact to extract it, process the metal, and then ship it to Nevada for production. No doubt there is pollution created to make the battery. I had to choose between an upfront environmental hit to make the battery, or 20+ years ongoing pollution and foreign oil dependence. Research I've read indicates that battery production is still far cleaner than a typical ICE, but there's a lot of room for improvement, particularly in the eventual recycling needs.

To be totally candid here, I work in environmental science, water specifically, but that's only been for the last decade. Before that I specialized in oil refineries where I helped them produce diesel and gasoline at faster rates and in safer ways. Plus we'll still keep the 4-cylinder Outback for another 4 years and we own watercraft that we'll probably keep another 4 years. My hands aren't totally clean here.

My wife is also in water science, so we've been conscious of that area of our environment for a long time. Five years ago we made a commitment to start working towards lowering our energy footprint starting with a very efficient home and the installation of solar panels that produce way more than the house needs. The extra production was always intended for a single electric vehicle, which we now have. We love the Tesla so much that we're now thinking of another EV to replace the Outback, and adding additional solar production to compensate for the extra draw. Our utility just committed to 100% renewable in 11 years, though, so if that happens, we won't bother with the extra home solar.

I'm not suggesting everyone reading this needs to jump out and get an EV to save the world. Changing to renewable and sustainable energy is a journey and we're very early in it. But, if it's going to happen, then we need to show government and companies there is demand for it, so early adopters are needed to drive the research and development. I'm okay being one of those people.

How sunny is your part of Colorado? I built my house to accept solar panels back in the 80s but the lack of sunlight in the northeast wouldn't support the economics, particularly back then. If I lived in someplace sunny like Arizona I’d give it a try.

I give you credit for walking the walk.

oldfarmer50 · December 2018

cdnpinhead said:
EVs depend on the grid, which is mostly coal or nuclear sourced in my part of the world. In the Pacific NW there's lots of water power, but that's not the case most other places, and natural gas is certainly making an impact. Wind and solar need a storage system before anyone with an IQ above 70 will take them seriously.

And what does that expense do to the KWH cost? I know fossil fuels have hidden cost which aren’t usually factored in but for folks of modest income it’s tough not to go with the energy source with the lowest monthly bill.

qbrozen · December 2018

cdnpinhead said:
Wind and solar need a storage system before anyone with an IQ above 70 will take them seriously.

Oh, you'll have to support that statement. Please, go on.

roadburner · December 2018

qbrozen said:

cdnpinhead said:
Wind and solar need a storage system before anyone with an IQ above 70 will take them seriously.

Oh, you'll have to support that statement. Please, go on.

cdnpinhead is correct; the problem is that wind and solar power do not produce energy on demand There are lots of times when a wind or solar farm is producing energy in excess of the needs of the grid- and that energy is shunted away(wasted). Other times it does not produce enough power to meet the needs of the grid. See this article for a more detailed analysis.

ab348 · December 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:
In places like Nova Scotia, wind and solar power is used to replace power from coal, nat gas or oil, which makes up the majority of our generation capacity. So no storage is required since those plants throttle back when the wind blows or the sun shines.

TPTB have been trying to make tidal power with no success here for many years.
Is that in the Bay of Fundy?

Exactly.

ab348 · December 2018

Update on old Rusty the cat: I thought when I went to bed on Tuesday night that I might wake up to find him dead or close to it. The vet started him on Prednisone (a steroid) on Tuesday and after his first dose he went to the downstairs bedroom which is his hideout when he is scared and was too weak to even jump on the bed. I brought down food and water and stayed with him for a while but he just was laid out on the rug.

Imagine my surprise when I was awakened Wednesday morning by him jumping onto my bed. He was much brighter and was hungry. He had a great day and has improved a bit each day since. He still is not totally back to his old self and is sleeping more but continues to eat and drink and is able to do all the catlike physical things he normally does, so progress. The steroids seem to be doing something for him, so fingers crossed.

driver100 · December 2018

Rusty is a pretty handsome cat. I think he just went through one of his 9 lives. Sometimes the right treatment can work, and animals like humans get sick and have a down day or two. Hope Rusty is on the mend.

cdnpinhead · December 2018

Here's wishing for a continuing recovery for Rusty the cat.

qbrozen · December 2018

roadburner said:

cdnpinhead said:
Wind and solar need a storage system before anyone with an IQ above 70 will take them seriously.

Oh, you'll have to support that statement. Please, go on.
cdnpinhead is correct; the problem is that wind and solar power do not produce energy on demand There are lots of times when a wind or solar farm is producing energy in excess of the needs of the grid- and that energy is shunted away(wasted). Other times it does not produce enough power to meet the needs of the grid. See this article for a more detailed analysis.

my excess solar power feeds back into the grid, where my neighbors are utilizing it and I benefit by my meter spinning backwards. It then spins forward at night. I can buy a storage system, but I don't see the point.

so, no, his statement is incorrect. If he had qualified the statement as applying to broad-scale use and total replacement of fossil fuels, then the statement is more solid. But to say "solar can't be taken seriously by anyone with an IQ over 70" is simple ignorance. A house with solar panels, especially in SREC states, is quite effective and economical as a supplemental source.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

qbrozen said:

my excess solar power feeds back into the grid, where my neighbors are utilizing it and I benefit by my meter spinning backwards. It then spins forward at night. I can buy a storage system, but I don't see the point.

so, no, his statement is incorrect. If he had qualified the statement as applying to broad-scale use and total replacement of fossil fuels, then the statement is more solid. But to say "solar can't be taken seriously by anyone with an IQ over 70" is simple ignorance. A house with solar panels, especially in SREC states, is quite effective and economical as a supplemental source.

There's an awesome NOVA show on Netflix right now, "Search for the Super Battery". If you haven't seen it yet and have an opportunity to do so, I recommend it.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2018

tyguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

oldfarmer50 said:

bwia said:
Laughter, the best medicine. Watch a woman try to put petrol in Tesla Model S.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHPg2Mi2roI
At least they eventually took pity and explained it to her. I wonder what made her think it needed fuel in the first place?

She just skipped a step. First, natural gas has to be pumped into the power station that generates the electricity for her Tesla.
Statistically that's probably true. Or it could be coal, or, like about a third of Tesla owners, it could be home solar. Or even smaller chance of grid hydro, solar, wind, or nuclear.

If it's coal or natural gas, well, if you believe the source:
https://forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2018/03/14/charging-an-electric-vehicle-is-far-cleaner-than-driving-on-gasoline-everywhere-in-america/#7e8c105d71f8

It's really a lot more complicated than that if you join the car's carbon footprint with the owner's lifestyle. What I mean is if Person A drives an old truck and emits X amount of carbon but doesn't fly to the Maldives on a surfing vacation, then he does, in fact, have a far lower annual carbon footprint than the EV owner who is presently surfing.

But I thought the Forbes article was pretty interesting and generally correct--if a bit speculative---given that it is predicting a rosier future at a time when current trending suggests that environmental laws are being reeled in. Also it presumes that an ICE cannot achieve 70 mpg--the present EV equivalent. I wouldn't bet on that.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

cdnpinhead said:
EVs depend on the grid, which is mostly coal or nuclear sourced in my part of the world. In the Pacific NW there's lots of water power, but that's not the case most other places, and natural gas is certainly making an impact. Wind and solar need a storage system before anyone with an IQ above 70 will take them seriously.
And what does that expense do to the KWH cost? I know fossil fuels have hidden cost which aren’t usually factored in but for folks of modest income it’s tough not to go with the energy source with the lowest monthly bill.

Agreed, and not every house is right for it. Trees, available roof space, and plumbing pipes exiting the roof all have to be factored in. We chose our roof design specifically to provide the most southern exposure available and keep the panels as vertical as bylaws would allow. Our payoff from the initial investment is expected to be about 8 years, but that's not factoring in the extra value added to our home. If we were to sell today we'd be in the black and make more from the investment than we put in. From here on out it's just more savings.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

ab348 said:
Update on old Rusty the cat: I thought when I went to bed on Tuesday night that I might wake up to find him dead or close to it. The vet started him on Prednisone (a steroid) on Tuesday and after his first dose he went to the downstairs bedroom which is his hideout when he is scared and was too weak to even jump on the bed. I brought down food and water and stayed with him for a while but he just was laid out on the rug.

Imagine my surprise when I was awakened Wednesday morning by him jumping onto my bed. He was much brighter and was hungry. He had a great day and has improved a bit each day since. He still is not totally back to his old self and is sleeping more but continues to eat and drink and is able to do all the catlike physical things he normally does, so progress. The steroids seem to be doing something for him, so fingers crossed.

Thanks for the update, ab. I'm hoping for the best for Rusty and you.

Any word on how Michael's pooch is doing? I've missed a bunch of posts, so I hope I'm not bringing up a sore subject.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

oldfarmer50 said:

How sunny is your part of Colorado? I built my house to accept solar panels back in the 80s but the lack of sunlight in the northeast wouldn't support the economics, particularly back then. If I lived in someplace sunny like Arizona I’d give it a try.

I give you credit for walking the walk.

Thanks OF.

Colorado does stay pretty sunny throughout the year. Not as much as the tourism council would like you to believe, but more sunny than the Northeast. When a storm dumps snow and the clouds clear, it only takes a day or two of sun and the panels naturally clear themselves. I've never had to clean them, so it's just mother nature taking care of the dust.

One of my employees in Phoenix installed home solar and a couple of Tesla Powerwalls, and he mentioned it saved him between $400 and $500 a month. That shocked me but I guess it makes sense given the AC demands there. He loves the system and when he flies into town he likes to pull out the app and show power generation and Powerwall utilization. It's pretty cool for geeks like us.

jmonroe1 · December 2018

@ab348, that is good news. It looks like you got an early Christmas gift. We hope Rusty improves even more.

jmonroe

[Deleted User] · December 2018

28firefighter said:
Guys. It the holidays. Can’t we at least pretend to respect our different opinions?

Point taken and thanks for the reminder.

Happy Holidays, all, and I hope you can spend some time with your loved ones. It'll be a brown, snow-free Christmas here in Colorado but I'm fortunate to have my uncle in town who's like a father to me. And I'm getting some time down from work to work on home projects...and ruffle some feathers here (sorry about that).

-Ty

28firefighter · December 2018

I’m quite enjoying the discussion on this topic because I’m not nearly as educated as I possibly could be on the subject. Just don’t want to see anyone being offended unnecessarily because the information sharing is great.

I try to save offensive discussions in my personal life for important events like weddings, bar mitzvahs, and funerals.

Even though we don’t celebrate Christmas, my company is closed this week so we are off to Philadelphia to spend a week with my folks.

Merry Christmas to those celebrating, and to the rest of us, enjoy your Chinese/Japanese/Thai food and going to the movies!

explorerx4 · December 2018

Right now here in the northeast we are getting about 9 hours of daylight.
My house is a 3400 sq/ft(including 700 sq/ft finished basement space) colonial style house.
Have natural gas heat with central air cooling.
My total gas/electric/water cost was just under 3k last year.
Saving $500 a month electrical says someone has a huge house.

bwia · December 2018

ab348 said:

Update on old Rusty the cat:
Imagine my surprise when I was awakened Wednesday morning by him jumping onto my bed. He was much brighter and was hungry. He had a great day and has improved a bit each day since. He still is not totally back to his old self and is sleeping more but continues to eat and drink and is able to do all the catlike physical things he normally does, so progress.

...*Awesome news on Rusty. Give him a nice treat for Christmas*

oldfarmer50 · December 2018

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:
In places like Nova Scotia, wind and solar power is used to replace power from coal, nat gas or oil, which makes up the majority of our generation capacity. So no storage is required since those plants throttle back when the wind blows or the sun shines.

TPTB have been trying to make tidal power with no success here for many years.
Is that in the Bay of Fundy?
Exactly.

I’ve always been intrigued by tidal power. I remember proposals for that area going back 50 years. They did a pilot project in the East river off Manhattan a few years ago to harness tidal forces. Don’t remember if it was successful but I do remember reading that the tidal forces were so strong they tore the generator off it’s mounts. That’s power.

Michaell · December 2018

Sorry, haven't given any updates on Lily for a few days.

She is improving - she was diagnosed with a urinary tract infection of E.coli. Antibiotics seem to have made some headway against it. Appetite is returning.

With regards to the balance issues, we suspect that is orthopedic in origin. As we have decided not to do surgery, there is no need for an MRI, which the docs were reluctant to do anyway, as they were concerned about her ability to handle the anesthesia.

We have some non slip booties on the way so she won't slip and slide on our hardwood floors.

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