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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    One of the hits against CVT was longevity. I'm assuming that has been resolved by now?
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    berri said:

    One of the hits against CVT was longevity. I'm assuming that has been resolved by now?

    Try opening up a CVT extended warranty business and you'll find out! :smile:
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,896
    berri said:

    One of the hits against CVT was longevity. I'm assuming that has been resolved by now?

    Good question. At 80k, the CVT is functioning fine. I spoke with a Service Tech and he said to do CVT fluid changes every 30-40k, which I have done. I have one of those lifetime drivetrain extended warranties that came with the car when I bought it. I don't want to test it and am hoping it is worth more than the paper it is printed on.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    I know some people don't like a CVT, but I haven't noticed a big deal on later ones I've had in rental cars. For me, the latest move to 8-9 speed transmissions is more annoying with all the shifting taking place. I suspect that aspect will get better down the road too like the CVT driving experience did over time.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    The ZF 8HP45 in my 2 Series is an excellent transmission; 99% of the time it shifts the way I would on both the street and the track.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    edited November 2018
    I liked the CVT on my 2016 Accord fine, but I like the 8-speed DCT with the torque converter on my 2018 TLX better because of the faster acceleration, smooth shifts, and nice sound.

    It's still possible to lease a 2019 Acura TLX base for less than a 2018 Accord EXL (which is the equivalent model). Here's the national special on a new 2019 TLX lease:

    2019 TLX 8 Speed Dual-Clutch Featured Special Lease
    $299 per month for 36 months. $2,799 Total due at signing.

    In contrast, the price to lease a 2018 Accord EXL at my local dealer with the same amount due at signing is about $350 a month—and that's with a discount of $2500 off of the msrp.

    The Accord has more room in the back seat than the TLX, and it gets somewhat better mpg on regular gas, but for those considering a midsize car you might consider test driving the TLX. Imho the TLX is a nicer car with better handling (the 4-wheel steering that's standard on the TLX is really fun).
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    I got to drive a 2018 Fusion Titanium AWD rental for a week over Thanksgiving, total of 950 miles mostly on the highway. I reserved a "mid-sized" car (ala Corolla, with potential upgrade to a Sonata, Optima, Camry, or Altima) but they gave me the Fusion--it was that or a Sentra. Here's my impressions:

    * Ride with the 18" wheels was kinda firm, but not too harsh, and pretty quiet.
    * Front seats (leather) were comfortable even driving 6 hours a day with only one break. Seat heaters were welcome. I hated the way the driver's seat moved back whenever I turned off the engine. I bet there's a way to deactivate that feature, but I didn't have time to dig into all the displays to figure it out.
    * Speaking of displays, I thought there were very complicated, with two LCD screens flanking the speedo plus the large center screen. I much prefer simpler displays and controls, such as rotary HVAC controls, but that's what I'm used to.
    * Fuel economy was 27.5 MPG over the course of the week, with mostly highway driving. I estimate I would have gotten close to 40 MPG on my Forte5, but that's a much lighter car with less powerful engine and FWD. One of the reasons I rented a car vs. driving my wife's CX-7 was for better fuel economy, as that would have done no better than ~30 MPG. However, the seat heaters made up for the poor fuel economy. Funny thing is, the guy at the Hertz counter told me it was a hybrid (didn't say anything about AWD). I'd rented a Fusion Hybrid before and it got very good FE, so I was glad about that--until I found it it wasn't a hybrid. (Hertz also forgot to put a snow brush in the car, in Minnesota in late November. I let them have it about that when I returned the car.)
    * I found out that when the headlights are in manual mode (which I had to use a lot as the automatic mode didn't turn the lights on many times when they should be on), they don't shut off by themselves when you shut off the engine and lock the car--they just beep at you. I thought it was odd for such an otherwise fancy car to not include an automatic shutoff. Even my cheapo 2001 Elantra had that.
    * I was reminded why it's a good idea to rent a car for awhile before buying it. It snowed one might while the car was parked outside. It was ice on the bottom and snow on top. It took me 45 minutes to clear off the Fusion, because it has all kinds of nooks and crannies for ice/snow to collect in. The worst was the trough where the wipers park--terrible design for people who live where it snows. Then there was the brake light mounted on top of the outside of the rear window (another terrible design) and the rear spoiler.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    edited December 2018
    Sales of midsize cars for Nov that I copied from another site. Not sure why only some have the percentage decrease and others don't. Also not sure why Tesla is missing, since the model 3 now has sales of maybe around 20k a month making it one of the best selling cars in the country....

    Camry 24,545 -29.9%
    Accord 23,367 +1.6%
    Fusion 16,652 +11.8%
    Altima 12,077 -36.7%
    Sonata 8,173
    Optima 6,669
    Legacy 2,903 -10.5%
    Passat 2,156 -31%
    Mazda 6 1984 +20%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    Backy,
    An AWD Fusion is rated @28 mpg highway, so the average isn't bad considering the cold weather.
    There is no CX-7 rated anywhere near 30 MPG highway.
    As far as the hidden wipers go, that design has been around since the 70's.
    You could have just started the car, put on max defrost, let it warm up for a few minutes, and most of your ice problem would have been gone. ;)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    November Malibu sales - 10,949
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    Not much activity here.
    A comparison of 2019 Fusion and Malibu.
    https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/head-to-head-ford-fusion-vs-chevrolet-malibu

    Kind of reminds me, I never see any new Accords and only occasionally a new gen Camry.
    Hmm....
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    What is being compared - which one leaves the market first? I think Ford really messed up on the Fusion letting sit little changed for too long. It should have been like Camry and Accord. Malibu seemed more of a mixed bag to me.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    I see an occasional Accord, but still unique enough to register. and just a rare Camry, though that is a little less noticeable to me.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    edited January 5
    Sales of midsize cars for Dec. and all of 2018 copied from tsx at vtec.net....

    Camry 29,093 -32.9%; 343,439 -11.6%
    Accord 38,627 +29.4%; 291,071 -10.1%
    Altima 17,064 -6.2%; 209,146 -18%
    Fusion 16,052 -8%; 173,600 -17.2%
    Malibu ???; 144,542 -22.2%
    Sonata 8,705; 105,118
    Optima 7,809; 101,603
    Legacy 3,374 -26.5%; 40,109 -19.5%
    Passat 3,116 +3.3%; 41,401 -32%
    6 2,357 +32.7%; 30,938 -7.4%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    well, still a lot of volume on the big boys. And that does bring buyers into the "family", so good chance that even if they are moving over to CUVs, they will be predisposed to stay with the brand.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    Here's where many of the lost sales in sedans are going....

    Rogue 42,523 +5.9%; 412,110 +2.1%
    CR-V 42,079 +13.8%; 379,013 0%
    Rav4 38,669 +18.8%; 427,170 +4.5%
    Equinox ???; 332,618 +14.5%
    Cherokee 20,800 +7%; 224,908 -7%
    Escape 29m147 -23.3%; 272,228 -11.7%
    Forester 17,642 +1.2%; 171,613 -3.4%
    CX-5 13,741 -2.5%; 150,622 +18.1%
    Compass 12,745 +46%; 171,167 +106%
    SantaFe 11,347; 117,038
    Terrain ???; 114,314 +33.8%
    Tiguan 8,353 +45%; 89,476 +326%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,896
    Is it price that is moving the Rogue? It’s a good vehicle but not as good as a lot of the competition.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    neither is the RAV4

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    Yeah I think the Rogue is cheaper than the competition. And a few years ago when Nissan had a tie-in for it with the Star Wars Rogue One movie sales exploded.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    Civic 26,384 -16%; 325,760 -13.9%
    Corolla 25,439 +27.4%; 303,732 -8%
    Sentra 17,567 +4.4%; 213,046 -18%
    Elantra 15,076; 200,415
    Cruze ???; 142,617 -22.8%
    Jetta 10,261 +42%; 90,734 -22%
    Forte 7,709; 101,890
    Impreza 5,880 -26.8%; 76,400 -11.2%
    3, 5277 -6.9%; 64,638 -13.8%
    Focus 3,661 -67.4%; 113,345 -28.4%
    Golf 281 -64%; 6,642 -51%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    edited January 5
    And the luxury midsize sedans....

    C-Class 6,799 +4.6%; 60,409 -22%
    ES 5,385 +6.7%; 48,484 -6%
    Q50 3,690 -33.9%; 34,763 -14.7%
    3series 3,184 -42.7%; 44,578 -25%
    TLX 2,831 -8.7%; 30,468 -12.8%
    IS 2,193 -21%; 22,927 -13.7%
    A4 1,881 -56%; 34,566 -8%
    MKZ 1,874 -18.3%; 19,852 -27.5%
    LaCrosse ???; 15,527 -23%
    Giulia 873 -14%; 11,519 +29%
    ATS ???; 10,859 -17.1%
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    edited January 5
    VW has seemingly almost stopped selling the regular Golf in the US. My local dealer at the moment doesn't have a single one in stock, although they have 11 GTIs.

    And now the Jetta outsells the dying Focus by 3 to 1.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    edited January 5
    The Focus has out of production since May, so I don't expect the numbers to improve much from here. ;)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    RAV4 had promo dollars on the hood in preparation for all new one that is now hitting dealer lots
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,896
    The Accord sales # had a huge jump. Wondering if it was a misprint. Maybe a year end push, heavy discounting to get rid of the remaining 18s? A dealer had a couple of 18 Touring models marked with a price of $28.9k, plus tax,tag,etc. I believe they were new, not demos.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,524
    Amazing how fast things can change. About four years ago Ford had two factories for making the Fusion, and combined they had a theoretical capacity of about half a million cars a year. And here in 2019 the Fusion and almost all sedans are seemingly forever riding into the sunset at Ford.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Some analysts think all this is part of a bigger and more ominous trend--that we are reaching, or have reached "peak car"--and that cars sales will never exceed present day numbers again.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    well, if population keeps growing, you will have a bigger pool of buyers. But we may never see another Mr. and Mrs. Breld in our lifetimes.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    You'd think so, but this larger population might not want to own a car at all. I don't have the exact numbers, but a pretty good chunk of 18 to 25 year olds don't even have driver's licenses.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    well, my sample size of my kids, goes against that theory! My daughter (23 YO) is all excited that our annual trip to the car show is coming up. My son, well, he has CCBA issues.

    I do have one niece that never learned to drive (she is about 30 now), but she also has lived in Boston since college (in the city part, various places) so fits the bill of not being able to have a car anyway. That, and she did try to learn a couple of times, and IIRC it just was not something that worked for her.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Urbanization can reduce car demand. But as the younger professionals have kids they may migrate back out to the suburbs reversing that. Relatively cheap airfares, combined with over saturated Interstates may lead to less desire for long distance driving down the road I suppose.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    living in a center city where there is real public transit (NYC, Boston, Philly, Chicago), sure, no need to own a car. But I still think being able to drive, and having a license, is a basic life skill.. But, I could be biased.

    Moving out to the suburbs, well, I can't imagine doing that without owning a car. Certainly not having kids.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    There does seem to be a mass migration into larger cities, at least for younger people.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286
    My son still wants a car, but he really only uses it on weekends. He can walk to work or take the train- and his employer pays for train fare.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    Locally, most of the kids who went away to school have stayed away.
    Owning a car in many cities is cost prohibitive, not just to younger people.
    That being said, outside of those huge metropolis areas, kids still want to own a car or truck.
    I have 2 kids, one will only drive a CUV/SUV. The other bought a sedan as their first new car.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934

    Backy,
    An AWD Fusion is rated @28 mpg highway, so the average isn't bad considering the cold weather.
    There is no CX-7 rated anywhere near 30 MPG highway.
    As far as the hidden wipers go, that design has been around since the 70's.
    You could have just started the car, put on max defrost, let it warm up for a few minutes, and most of your ice problem would have been gone. ;)

    Uh... I did that. It was a thick coat of ice. It helped loosen it on the rear window though.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    I forgot to post about my experience with a 2018 Altima rental over the holidays. Drove it for 9 days from MN to/from TX, 2900 miles total. Most of the time there were 4 to 5 adults and a full trunk, but it still averaged 38.7 mpg for the trip which I was very happy with. Also was happy with gas prices--a low of $1.75 in Oklahoma City, but always under $2. This was the old Altima but it's a good highway cruiser. The "space foam" (or whatever they call it) seats were very comfortable even when driving 9-10 hours in a day.

    I called Hertz a day before pickup and asked specifically for a Sonata, Optima, Altima, or Camry, as they have all of those in their fleet. They said they'd get one for me. Then I get an email that my Jeep Compass is ready! I called them and they said they thought they'd "upgrade" me. Sorry, a Compass is NOT an upgrade. I told them I rented a full-sized car for a reason (actually multiple reasons). They said they'd see what they could do. Fortunately the Altima had just come in and had been serviced when I got there.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    @backy,
    If you look at any of the other popular midsize sedans, the front wipers are buried even more than the Fusion.
    I was very happy the my stop/start worked today.
    It hadn't activated in a couple of months, but I took an 80 mile or so round trip yesterday and it stopped the engine at most stops today.
    Usually it doesn't activate in cooler weather until I drive the car 3 days in a row, average about 30 miles a day.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Well, I'm officially leaving the realm of mid-sized sedan owners. (From the looks of it here, a lot of other people have left that realm also!) The 2008 Mazda6 that my daughter has used during college is going on the block soon, to be replaced by a 2011 Sentra SL that she's buying with her first car loan (first loan of any kind). I'm selling the M6 and will apply the proceeds to her new car (she would have gotten the title after graduation in May anyway).
    We figured with the M6 still in very good condition but starting to show signs of rust and with 160k miles, it was time to get something newer and lower miles (the Sentra has 68k). Plus my daughter would really like Bluetooth and a USB port, and the Sentra has those plus a lot of other goodies (Rockford Fosgate stereo, nav, keyless start, moonroof etc.).
    I leased a 2010 Sentra S (same color!) for 3 years and it was a good car for me. Pickup isn't the greatest with the CVT, but she doesn't need to race around anyway. :) She likes how the Sentra drives.
    I'm getting the car detailed next week (hard to do it myself in the winter), then put it on the market. If anyone in the Twin Cities wants a nice 2008 Mazda6i VE, let me know. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    edited March 9
    Someone reputable will let you take a loan on a 2011 Sentra? OK.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,286

    Someone reputable will let you take a loan on a 2011 Sentra? OK.

    Yeah, this guy said no problem!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934

    Someone reputable will let you take a loan on a 2011 Sentra? OK.

    Yes. A bank that's been around for decades--used to be IBM's credit union, now it's a bank. I've done many car loans with them over the years because they offer great rates and service. This loan was for five years, 3.39% interest, payment about $72--fits my daughter's budget. I had to co-sign because she has little credit history.

    Anyway, the car is worth at least $6000 for a private party sale and the loan is only for $4000, so low risk for them especially since they know I'm a long-time customer with an excellent credit history.

    In fact, I'd say it's lower risk than loaning $30k to someone to buy an "average" new car that will depreciate like a rock, with a payment over $500 and not much in the way of assets, job history, or credit history--and "reputable" lenders do that all the time, right?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    $72/month car loan? It's 1965 again! Hopefully she does well and can add extra to the payments. won't take much of that to have it paid off in 2-3 years.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Car & Driver's current issue has 25 vehicles worth waiting for. Among the Ferraris and other high-priced wheels is the 2020 Sonata. I don't know how many people are longing for a mid-sized car these days, but that Sonata sure looks a lot better than the current car. Maybe I'll get to drive it as a rental. Also I'd like to try out the new Altima, which is getting some good reviews. There's quite a few Altimas in rental fleets so I should be able to snag one of those in the near future.

    Aside from the 2020 Sonata, what else will be new in this field? There's a refreshed (but not all-new) Passat coming soon (saw it at the auto show in March, looks better than the current car but same underpinnings). Also the Legacy is redesigned for 2020. Since the Sonata has been redone there will probably a new Optima soon, and maybe a new Mazda6 since the current car debuted for MY 2014 which makes it I think the oldest design in the class. So quite a bit of action in this field over the next several months--think anyone will notice? ;)
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,750
    I saw that one. I'll check one out when they arrive. Might have been a contender when I was shopping last year.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,896
    I haven’t seen any recent sales figures of mid size cars. Is the trend still downward or has it stabilized? Locally I am seeing more new model Accords than Camrys. I think I’ve only seen a couple of new model Altimas. New CR-Vs, RAV 4s, Rogues, Tiguans, they are multiplying like guppies.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,803
    All I knew to find quickly is Fusion 14,850.
    Go to autospies.com for a bunch of the other brands.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    The last 3 rentals I got were Malibu, Camry, and Malibu. Camry was smooth and quiet, but the interior not to my taste--materials seemed cheap for one thing. Not a fan of the exterior design either, although in LE trim it wasn't too bad. The Malibus were smooth and quiet also, and I liked the exterior and interior styling better. Not a bad car at all. The Malibus had the auto-stop which I think I'd find annoying if I did a lot of rush-hour traffic, but I suppose it will save some gas.

    I read a review of the new Corolla. Like other "compacts" it's grown in size to what mid-sizers were a few years ago. The new Mazda3 is bigger also, as are the new Forte and Jetta. That could be one reason sales of mid-sized cars is slipping--people who want a sedan can get a "compact" that offers plenty of room for most people but easier to park and maybe more fun to drive.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Got to rent a brand-new Altima on a recent trip to San Diego. I like it much better than the Camry and Malibu. I prefer the Altima's dash layout and controls, it's very economical (averaged just under 40 mpg over 3 days), it doesn't have the auto-stop that the Malibu has, and it drives like a smaller car than it is--which is a good thing. I mean that it feels more nimble than the Camry and Malibu.

    I also read some reviews of the 2020 Sonata. If it drives as well as it looks, it could be the top of the mid-sized sedan class when it debuts. Who knows, with gas inching up (I saw it for nearly $5 a gallon for premium while in San Diego) an economical sedan could win back folks who bought a truck or SUV but don't really need it.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,568
    andres3 said:

    stickguy said:

    hopefully they keep at least 1 smaller/midsize sedan. Make the Focus a little bigger, and split the difference?

    ISN'T THAT WHAT ACURA DID? combining the TL and TSX to make the TLX. I don't think they are setting the world on fire with that strategy. I'm not sure who is buying the RLX.
    I haven't been sure about Acura's their marketing for years. How about a new Integra???, instead of the VERY Civic looking ILX, Which basically IS a Luxed/Up Honda Civic. I would buy the better looking (IMO) Civic Sport, or the Si, which are on the low end price wise, and the Si with the wing looks like Darth Vader's earth vehicle. Is Honda withholding the Integra nameplate for some reason? My girlfriend had a 94, loaded with wing and Stock with premium sound and tinted windows. Compared to my car,it really was like the commercial where it was a rollercoaster ride. She loved driving my brute-force '87 Z24 with my newly installed 3.1 liter V6 with 190 HP in my mechanics tune, and a Getrag 5 speed manual. Considering the 87 Cavalier Z24 weighed very little, it would spin through third gear with my 225/60/14!!! Falken tires and racing clutch due to my insatiable urge to drive fast.Ok, back to the subject...
    The Lexus sells wayyy more volume due to the ES350, and the RLX mostly. I have to say that the Lexus lineup is looking good, if not derivative of the same design they have been making for years. My favorite was always the IS350, with a zero to 60 in 4.8 to 5.1 seconds, depending on the car and the aggressiveness of the driver. However, the ES350, stock....did zero to 60 in 5.8 to 6.2 (depending on which mag and reviewer).

    Anyway, I still have my 2012 Kia Optima EX. It has a new engine, new struts,tires...all under warranty (and new brake pads that I paid $20 to install.

    I also replaced the rear tint, now at 20% due to bubbling on the rear with the rear defroster being the culprit for causing bubbles in the tint. It got so bad I could barely see out of it. There was a Maaco shop next door at the Springfield, VA Fullerton Rd. location, and I had some pretty bad front end trim where the clear coat came off, etc. They took care of ALL of it....and it was a good bit of work, for $100. It no, after 7 years, makes it look brand new.
    Sorry I dont post much-Chris

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

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