Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

houdini2 · April 2019

berri said:
Vanguard is an excellent fund family!

Agree about Vanguard, but I prefer the equivalent ETF's to the traditional funds.

ruking1 · April 2019

cdnpinhead said:

ruking1 said:
Indeed! The time (decades) literally shoots on by! I’m not a 401 K guy.

I ran the financial calculators (before each of two kids were born, years ago obviously) & decided on Vanguard Index 500 (15.9 % over 10 years +) as one option.
Vanguard rules! My Honeywell (plus the previous four names) 401(K) ran with State Street for most of the time, but then transitioned to Voya and then, just last year, to Fidelity. I'm confident that there's corporate jiggery-pokery going on whenever these things change, but the yields have been quite acceptable.

Given my "retirement" last year, I've been sorting things out since, and this year I'm going to take the whole Fidelity fund and move it to Vanguard, along with getting rid of every cent of Honeywell stock.

Not that I'm not bitter. . .much.

Not knowing the details of your specific Honeywell stock/s, all I can guess, it’s less than Vanguard Index 500 15.9% annualized: no brainer approach. Be that as it may, the no brainer attitude of the Vanguard Index 500 has also been applied to mid-cap and small-cap Index Vanguard Funds. They actually do slightly better with less (>500) stocks & slightly higher cost. I’d say if one is doing better concentrated, it’s the better path & strategy, aka, stay the course.

Vanguard has really kept up with the times and specifically the internet mutual fund business. There are so many options, its’ probably better to look at the Vanguard website to understand, choose what options one wants and/or needs. So for example, monies not used/needed in one’s checking account can grow @ 15.9% with almost instantaneous mobility.

oldfarmer50 · April 2019

bwia said:
Based upon what I've read above, it would appear that there are several "middle class" millionaires in this group.

That is, those who are relatively well off, ($1 to $5 million net worth) but don't feel like or live like a millionaire. Oh well, middle class millionaires get no respect especially those of us chasing CD rates.

LOL. I’m flattered that you think I’m in that group but I’m still working on the first million. That said, I bet there’s at least one or two posters in that range.

oldfarmer50 · April 2019

ruking1 said:

cdnpinhead said:
Sometimes you end up 401(K) rich, if you did without certain things for a few decades.
Indeed! The time (decades) literally shoots on by! I’m not a 401 K guy.

I ran the financial calculators (before each of two kids were born, years ago obviously) & decided on Vanguard Index 500 (15.9 % over 10 years +) as one option. By itself, the yields paid for eachs’ choices of universities, both under/graduate studies. One daughters’ company paid for her industry driven MBA. The other received an undergraduate stipend.

One can Google their own calculators, if they don’t like this one.
http://www.financialcalculator.org/investing/interest-calculator

I’ve got the S&P 500 fund but my biggest winner is the Small Cap Growth. Others I picked for the dividends which I reinvested until I retired.

ruking1 · April 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

ruking1 said:

cdnpinhead said:
Sometimes you end up 401(K) rich, if you did without certain things for a few decades.
Indeed! The time (decades) literally shoots on by! I’m not a 401 K guy.

I ran the financial calculators (before each of two kids were born, years ago obviously) & decided on Vanguard Index 500 (15.9 % over 10 years +) as one option. By itself, the yields paid for eachs’ choices of universities, both under/graduate studies. One daughters’ company paid for her industry driven MBA. The other received an undergraduate stipend.

One can Google their own calculators, if they don’t like this one.
http://www.financialcalculator.org/investing/interest-calculator
I’ve got the S&P 500 fund but my biggest winner is the Small Cap Growth. Others I picked for the dividends which I reinvested until I retired.

It’s YIPPEE! YAHOO! It’s hard to think of much better than passive income & its growth & compounding! Indeed one can take a little more risk by sliding those dividend money’s into whatever you want to at the moment (i.e., Vanguard Small Cap) Most people don’t understand that small cap means small business/es and most of the United States economy ARE small business/es.

Passive income TRUMPS monthly car payments. If I put ”current” MB GLC300, $499 mo car payments into funds posting 15.9% for 30 years, it will grow to $ 4.267 M.

explorerx4 · April 2019

A couple of years ago, I decided to start one of my kids investing in mutual funds.
Gave them some seed money and recommended Vanguard as a good place to start.
I also give them some cash once a year to invest over the next year.
Since then, they paid off their college debt(total was less than a semester of TR&B) and decided to put that money into their investment account.

ruking1 · April 2019

explorerx4 said:
A couple of years ago, I decided to start one of my kids investing in mutual funds.
Gave them some seed money and recommended Vanguard as a good place to start.
I also give them some cash once a year to invest over the next year.
Since then, they paid off their college debt(total was less than a semester of TR&B) and decided to put that money into their investment account.

I’m guessing that it was probably one of the better lessons that you taught them.

explorerx4 · April 2019

It's gratifying when your kid takes your 'nudge' and runs with it although, and I'm you feel the same way, other lessons are more important than money management.

berri · April 2019

I wouldn't turn it down, but a million isn't really all that much today, even compared to a decade ago. Inflation compounds.

explorerx4 · April 2019

With Tiger Woods winning the Masters, golf is going to get a huge lift.
I'm not a big fan of his previous personal conduct, but he has undeniable star power.

driver100 · April 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
Some good news....I seem to have found my car key.
I can't explain it.....I don't know how this happened and why I have the key and not the chain part that had the war amps key return tag on it.
It was in a drawer where I keep my receipts. All I can think of is I was in a rush, I did have some receipts I threw in the drawer, I must have put the key in the drawer at the same time.
My birthday is coming up, maybe I will ask for one of those GPS key finders.
Alzheimer’s? Ghosts? Wife gaslighting you?

Probably all 3.

ab348 · April 2019

explorerx4 said:
With Tiger Woods winning the Masters, golf is going to get a huge lift.
I'm not a big fan of his previous personal conduct, but he has undeniable star power.

I find it curious how so many, perhaps most, have bought into the redemption narrative.

He was an utterly vile person. My experience is that those personal qualities do not often magically change. They can, and have in some, but usually not. Maybe I'm just old and rigid, I dunno.

driver100 · April 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

bwia said:

For those saving for their next Buggati or high end vehicle consider parking your money in a high rate savings or CD.

Don't know why they are keeping it a secret but Citizens Access Bank is offering a 2.85% APY 1-year CD and 2.35% on savings. This is a strictly online bank (a subsidiary of Citizens Bank) and a $5,000 minimum is required to open. Considering the paltry 1.15% rate I'm getting right now its hard to pass up such attractive rates.

Does anyone have experience with these online savings banks? What are the risks and downsides? comments appreciated.

I am out of the stock market now. I was able to get a 2.65% 12 month CD and rolled over 5 other 12 and 15 month CD’s in the past 3 months at 2.6%. My checking account pays me 2.2% monthly which was better than the money markets the banks offered.

Rates have remained about the same over the past 3 months and in some cases rates have dropped a little.

But I have to remain conservative now - no more stock markets for me.

How about bonds? MLPs? Munis?

Your supposed to put your age as a percentage into bonds (If you are 75 then 75% bonds), and the rest into equities - 25%. That should cover you plus give you a bit of a kick if the market surges.

driver100 · April 2019

fintail said:
Was this an S-Class or higher AMG model or something? That's a big payment.

ruking1 said:

I’m a tad confused here. One spends $ 600. + on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease, unscheduled maintenance: alignment. In addition, spending say $1,432. per mo (lease) did not guarantee NO unscheduled maintenance. Indeed, it will cause/caused higher $ tire/s replacement & another alignment/check.

If I had a $600 unscheduled maintenance bill on a Honda Pilot with 136,000 miles, I’d pretty close to demand they cover it, warranty or NOT.

Your 2nd paragraph can be better, easily seen by CPMD: aka., $cost per mile driven.

I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge.

I am really confused....I have no idea what the $600+ on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease......etc was all about.

And ruking says: "I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge"

What does this mean?

I am sure some cars get to 250000 miles and are OK, my neighbors VW diesel had 300000 miles on it when the engine froze up. Some cars are fine for 400k miles, but, I would rather not risk the car dying on me before I can get something for it as a trade in. There is no right or wrong...it is what your gambling/tolerance level is.

You know....bulls and bears can make money in the market, but pigs can get slaughtered. Same kind of theory.

ab348 · April 2019

I dunno how someone wouldn't die of boredom driving the same car 400k miles. I would think the seat might be a bit used up by then too.

driver100 · April 2019

berri said:
I wouldn't turn it down, but a million isn't really all that much today, even compared to a decade ago. Inflation compounds.

60 years ago my dream was to make a very nice salary of $10,000 a year.

Remember the $64000 question? At the time people said that money would last you for a lifetime.

driver100 · April 2019

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:
With Tiger Woods winning the Masters, golf is going to get a huge lift.
I'm not a big fan of his previous personal conduct, but he has undeniable star power.
I find it curious how so many, perhaps most, have bought into the redemption narrative.

He was an utterly vile person. My experience is that those personal qualities do not often magically change. They can, and have in some, but usually not. Maybe I'm just old and rigid, I dunno.

Few people change....but, everyone loves an underdog or someone who can make a comeback, that allows us to overlook a lot.

ruking1 · April 2019

driver100 said:

fintail said:
Was this an S-Class or higher AMG model or something? That's a big payment.

ruking1 said:

I’m a tad confused here. One spends $ 600. + on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease, unscheduled maintenance: alignment. In addition, spending say $1,432. per mo (lease) did not guarantee NO unscheduled maintenance. Indeed, it will cause/caused higher $ tire/s replacement & another alignment/check.

If I had a $600 unscheduled maintenance bill on a Honda Pilot with 136,000 miles, I’d pretty close to demand they cover it, warranty or NOT.

Your 2nd paragraph can be better, easily seen by CPMD: aka., $cost per mile driven.

I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge.

I am really confused....I have no idea what the $600+ on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease......etc was all about.

And ruking says: "I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge"

What does this mean?

I am sure some cars get to 250000 miles and are OK, my neighbors VW diesel had 300000 miles on it when the engine froze up. Some cars are fine for 400k miles, but, I would rather not risk the car dying on me before I can get something for it as a trade in. There is no right or wrong...it is what your gambling/tolerance level is.

You know....bulls and bears can make money in the market, but pigs can get slaughtered. Same kind of theory.

Simple questions, with almost total lack of answers & misdirection illusion with no relevancy in the effort. There are low risks in a car being able to go 250,000 miles. It’s been done on multiple (my 5) vehicles. So what is it about one spending MORE $’s on unscheduled maintenance on a LOW mileage 2018 car, than NOT spent on a car with 250,000 miles, probably 10 TIMES + more, that’s difficult to understand?

I’m fine with ones’ preferences & opinions. The facts however do not back the narrative. So do I think one’s S-class can go 250,000 miles with few unscheduled maintenance issues & $’s ? It might matter not, as one will probably turn it in @ the end of a 36 mo lease?

For up to 250,000 miles, my large sedan choices would be: Lexus ES 350, ES 300h, Toyota Avalon, h.

fintail · April 2019

Who gets 15.9% year over year for 30 years maybe other than funds put into a coddled public sector pension?

1MM in my zipcode gets you a "land value only" teardown house, lot probably under 9K sq ft.

And yeah, who (here anyway, I assume we consider ourselves car people) wants to drive a commuter box for 250K miles? Life is too short, hearses don't have luggage racks.

qbrozen · April 2019

bwia said:

Based upon what I've read above, it would appear that there are several "middle class" millionaires in this group.

That is, those who are relatively well off, ($1 to $5 million net worth) but don't feel like or live like a millionaire. Oh well, middle class millionaires get no respect especially those of us chasing CD rates.

Is negative net worth a thing? Or am I a pioneer?

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

berri said:
I wouldn't turn it down, but a million isn't really all that much today, even compared to a decade ago. Inflation compounds.

A million bucks doesn't go far in San Francisco. You'll pay about $650/ sq ft. and it won't be a pretty Victorian, either.

ruking1 · April 2019

fintail said:
Who gets 15.9% year over year for 30 years maybe other than funds put into a coddled public sector pension?

1MM in my zipcode gets you a "land value only" teardown house, lot probably under 9K sq ft.

And yeah, who (here anyway, I assume we consider ourselves car people) wants to drive a commuter box for 250K miles? Life is too short, hearses don't have luggage racks.

What % did you have in mind? Coddled public sector pensions usually do FAR worse than the minimum app 15.9 %, the extremely conservative Vanguard Index 500.

Then the $1M tear down house might be a good target to avoid altogether.

Life IS too far short! Why not retire @ 40 years old to 50 years old?

So for example, if one consumes OVER one’s nest egg’s income streams, https://finance.yahoo.com/news/retirees-control-apos-ll-pay-121500054.html part time jobs might be in order. One could be a courtesy driver for MB & drive almost any late model MB?🏎

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

Retire at 40 and do what? Play golf? Drink with other ex-pats in a foreign land? Go on cruises and dress up for the Halloween Party?

I bet most early retirees soon start up new businesses or careers, or die young.

ruking1 · April 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
Retire at 40 and do what? Play golf? Drink with other ex-pats in a foreign land? Go on cruises and dress up for the Halloween Party?

I bet most early retirees soon start up new businesses or careers, or die young.

Me or You? Retirement is only one to multiple state/s of mind. It’s essentially: have to work, to ... want to work.

Dressing for Halloween is big in the LGBT communities. 🧟‍♂️🧟‍♀️

ab348 · April 2019

If there is a fund averaging 15.9% annual returns over the long term I wonder why everyone isn’t in it.

roadburner · April 2019

ab348 said:
I dunno how someone wouldn't die of boredom driving the same car 400k miles. I would think the seat might be a bit used up by then too.

On another site I follow a large percentage of members are Luddites to the nth degree- such as old coots decrying the fact that power windows are standard on most cars. Then there's another group that think a soul slaughtering low rent four wheeled appliance that can go 300,000 miles with minimal repairs is the pinnacle of automotive excellence.

fintail · April 2019

I don't have any % in mind, but I think 15.9% over 3 decades in any fund is some kind of hallucination and I would like to know the names of funds delivering anything near that. Which has delivered those numbers? Regarding the pensions, they seem to generate much better ROI than any 401K, not many funds where you can put in x for 20-25 years tops and have guaranteed income (and bennies) for life, but a certain employee class gets it.

Not many in the real world/private sector, outside of lucky tech people or the trust fund set are retiring at 40. Life is too short, tomorrow isn't guaranteed. Part time jobs at retirement might not be all bad, either, keeps you busy and active. Unless one is independently wealthy, sitting around the house will get boring after awhile.

ruking1 said:

What % did you have in mind? Coddled public sector pensions usually do FAR worse than the minimum app 15.9 %, the extremely conservative Vanguard Index 500.

Then the $1M tear down house might be a good target to avoid altogether.

Life IS too far short! Why not retire @ 40 years old to 50 years old?

So for example, if one consumes OVER one’s nest egg’s income streams, https://finance.yahoo.com/news/retirees-control-apos-ll-pay-121500054.html part time jobs might be in order. One could be a courtesy driver for MB & drive almost any late model MB?🏎

ruking1 · April 2019

ab348 said:
If there is a fund averaging 15.9% annual returns over the long term I wonder why everyone isn’t in it.

I bet the next thing ones going to say I said is I guarantee 15.9 % for the Vanguard 500 Index Fund for 30 years? AH NO!

And you want everybody in it… Why ? The question is above my pay grade. Berkshire Hathaway over last 30 years has done better than that. One might pose that question to the Oracle of Omaha, Warren Buffett, a multibillionaire who still buys $3 USD McDonalds breakfasts. I am sure that some folks on this thread thinks he is hallucinating. But I’ve never heard him give an all inclusive to good answer to your question.

driver100 · April 2019

ab348 said:
I dunno how someone wouldn't die of boredom driving the same car 400k miles. I would think the seat might be a bit used up by then too.

Some people get a thrill out of trying to keep a car on the road as long as possible. The one car I did want to keep for a long time, was my 2000 Jeep Cherokee. I thought it would become a classic.
But, it got noisy, and loose feeling, and although it looks rugged, I didn't think it was that well put together....and besides I tried a 2004 X3 and decided that was what I wanted - there is a whole other world out there I never knew about.

ruking1 · April 2019

driver100 said:

ab348 said:
I dunno how someone wouldn't die of boredom driving the same car 400k miles. I would think the seat might be a bit used up by then too.
Some people get a thrill out of trying to keep a car on the road as long as possible. The one car I did want to keep for a long time, was my 2000 Jeep Cherokee. I thought it would become a classic.
But, it got noisy, and loose feeling, and although it looks rugged, I didn't think it was that well put together....and besides I tried a 2004 X3 and decided that was what I wanted - there is a whole other world out there I never knew about.

Indeed that might be true. I’m not one of those. Mine is more like low cost per mile driven: depreciation.

Jeep products are literally built to be DIY projects. It’s been an integral part of its DNA since before WW2, aka, more than 78 years. Supply logistics, parts, engines, have been, are pretty awesome.

driver100 · April 2019

ruking1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
Was this an S-Class or higher AMG model or something? That's a big payment.

ruking1 said:

I’m a tad confused here. One spends $ 600. + on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease, unscheduled maintenance: alignment. In addition, spending say $1,432. per mo (lease) did not guarantee NO unscheduled maintenance. Indeed, it will cause/caused higher $ tire/s replacement & another alignment/check.

If I had a $600 unscheduled maintenance bill on a Honda Pilot with 136,000 miles, I’d pretty close to demand they cover it, warranty or NOT.

Your 2nd paragraph can be better, easily seen by CPMD: aka., $cost per mile driven.

I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge.

I am really confused....I have no idea what the $600+ on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease......etc was all about.

And ruking says: "I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge"

What does this mean?

I am sure some cars get to 250000 miles and are OK, my neighbors VW diesel had 300000 miles on it when the engine froze up. Some cars are fine for 400k miles, but, I would rather not risk the car dying on me before I can get something for it as a trade in. There is no right or wrong...it is what your gambling/tolerance level is.

You know....bulls and bears can make money in the market, but pigs can get slaughtered. Same kind of theory.
Simple questions, with almost total lack of answers & misdirection illusion with no relevancy in the effort. There are low risks in a car being able to go 250,000 miles. It’s been done on multiple (my 5) vehicles. So what is it about one spending MORE $’s on unscheduled maintenance on a LOW mileage 2018 car, than NOT spent on a car with 250,000 miles, probably 10 TIMES + more, that’s difficult to understand?

I’m fine with ones’ preferences & opinions. The facts however do not back the narrative. So do I think one’s S-class can go 250,000 miles with few unscheduled maintenance issues & $’s ? It might matter not, as one will probably turn it in @ the end of a 36 mo lease?

For up to 250,000 miles, my large sedan choices would be: Lexus ES 350, ES 300h, Toyota Avalon, h.

I am not sure of the point you are trying to make ruking. First, I have an E Class not an S Class, if you are talking about me. But, aside from that, you definitely win on the miles per penny scale and if you can get a car to last for 250000 miles I give you a lot of credit....5 cars even better.
I have driven older cars and I spent a lot of time waiting for them to be repaired, a lot of frustration because they would break down at inopportune times, and it cost me time and money. I didn't have much choice at the time, so I did it.
These days I want to simplify my life as far as looking after a car, I want a car that gives me a certain level of comfort, that has a certain amount of power, that gives me satisfaction driving it, that has as much safety built in as possible, and that will be reliable.....and I would rather spend less but I have to pay the price to get that.....so I do it.
Like I say, I don't gamble, I don't smoke, I don't have a boat, I don't drink much, I don't even play golf (which costs a lot more than tennis or pickleball), I want to spend my money on a car that I enjoy. Hope that explains why I am willing to pay 10 TIMES more!

driver100 · April 2019

ruking1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:
Retire at 40 and do what? Play golf? Drink with other ex-pats in a foreign land? Go on cruises and dress up for the Halloween Party?

I bet most early retirees soon start up new businesses or careers, or die young.

Me or You? Retirement is only one to multiple state/s of mind. It’s essentially: have to work, to want to work.

Dressing for Halloween is big in the LGBT communities. 🧟‍♂️🧟‍♀️

Hey I went to a Halloween party......I went as Batman and my wife went as Batgirl. Next year I am going as Superman....I can post the picture if you missed it.....and my wifeis going as Wonder Woman.

ruking1 · April 2019

Love it! 🦹‍♂️🦹‍♀️

stickguy · April 2019

I would be happy to be able to retire at 60, but highly unlikely. Maybe could swing a "downsize" job of some sort. but probably not.

and middle class millionaires? Probably a lot more out there than you expect. And many probably don't even realize it. But the biggest issue is, for the most part, you can't touch it. Home equity, and IRA/401K can be pretty significant for someone pushing 60, even if they are relatively lower earning (normal middle class). Assuming they bought a house right and did not use it as a piggy bank, and started early putting a good % into their 401k. And that doesn't even count the NPV of pensions for those lucky enough to have one.

if you can make it to 65, sell the big house, and downsize to a cheaper place you can often end up being richer than you ever were when slogging along as a working stiff, raising kids.

just ask Driver!

ruking1 · April 2019

stickguy said:
I would be happy to be able to retire at 60, but highly unlikely. Maybe could swing a "downsize" job of some sort. but probably not.

and middle class millionaires? Probably a lot more out there than you expect. And many probably don't even realize it. But the biggest issue is, for the most part, you can't touch it. Home equity, and IRA/401K can be pretty significant for someone pushing 60, even if they are relatively lower earning (normal middle class). Assuming they bought a house right and did not use it as a piggy bank, and started early putting a good % into their 401k. And that doesn't even count the NPV of pensions for those lucky enough to have one.

if you can make it to 65, sell the big house, and downsize to a cheaper place you can often end up being richer than you ever were when slogging along as a working stiff, raising kids.

just ask Driver!

The system does NOT make it easy! However, the system is NOT monolithic. To address paragraph #3. Very few new duplexes to 4 plexus are being built. 9 each of 4 unit plexus (locally anyway) throws off pretty good “passive” RE income. Upon retirement, one could claim this as the new “career”. This was/is a good way to enter the so called RE markets (locally anyway). That’s is of course if one didn’t “NEED” the big house.

driver100 · April 2019

stickguy said:
I would be happy to be able to retire at 60, but highly unlikely. Maybe could swing a "downsize" job of some sort. but probably not.

and middle class millionaires? Probably a lot more out there than you expect. And many probably don't even realize it. But the biggest issue is, for the most part, you can't touch it. Home equity, and IRA/401K can be pretty significant for someone pushing 60, even if they are relatively lower earning (normal middle class). Assuming they bought a house right and did not use it as a piggy bank, and started early putting a good % into their 401k. And that doesn't even count the NPV of pensions for those lucky enough to have one.

if you can make it to 65, sell the big house, and downsize to a cheaper place you can often end up being richer than you ever were when slogging along as a working stiff, raising kids.

just ask Driver!

Since you kind of asked stick, here are a few of my thoughts on retiring;
*House may represent an unexpected bonus of savings when retired, but you have to live somewhere, UNLESS
*You sell it and downsize, which gives you additional funds to live off of - and that is a good move - you don't need a big house any more.
*You think you are going to travel and do stuff, but, that wears off a bit, you have to find things you want to do all day and make a framework of activities to do during the week,
*Your expenses go way down, less clothes, fewer miles to travel, less eating out - hopefully less shopping.
*The major thing to take into account is inflation. My brother retired at about 60, had a few $100000 saved, thought it would get him through his retirement years, BUT, count on prices doubling every 10 to 12 years, and the groceries he paid $100 a week for in 1999 will cost $200 in 2009, and could cost $300 or with above average inflation $400 a week in 2019. When we started the business we went to a cheap restaurant and bought a gyros dinner for $5.....that was 1999. Today, 20 years later it is $14. Make sure you have a way to cover inflation.
There are lots of things and places for seniors to go....play cards, visit the library, take exercise classes, take a course on computers, photography, yoga, pickleball and have fun!

stickguy · April 2019

Driver, I know we need a lot less house. Still trying to get you-know-who on board with that. One the money dries up, should be an easier sell. And we don't lead a fancy lifestyle, so won't nee a lot. Enough for a couple trips a year for entertainment sounds good. fly once, drive the rest!

If all else fails, will just move in with the kids!

driver100 · April 2019

One thing I would like to clarify. I started out teaching in 1970 making $5400 a year. I left teaching, and worked as a retail store manager for 3 different chain stores, catalog, jewelry, and bookstore. Worked for a publisher for 16 years, a wholesale book distributor for 3 years and a bargain book distributor for 1 year until 1994. The most I ever made was $40k a year (did have a company car and expense account etc). When the last job ended, we started our business, but, I made nothing for 3 years....Mrs D made about $30k as a family therapist.
We don't have pensions or health plans. Thank goodness the business took off in about 2004, I was going to celebrate by buying a G Wagon but, I couldn't actually do it, but I took a test drive in an X3 and I knew I had to get it - I think it was $45000.

I know what it is like to drive old high mileage cars. I have had to change a lot of tires, I have been stranded with an engine that gave out in below freezing weather, I have had cars that wouldn't start, I have had cars that sputtered and died on the highway, I drove taxis that had over 100k miles and that was in the 70s when cars didn't last as long.

I am tired of all that. If the business hadn't worked out we would have got a small condo and gone for walks and lived downtown and we would be fine. Money is nice because if the washer breaks down we know we can buy a new one. It is true, money does not make you happy or unhappy, it does make life more enjoyable and go smoother - less to worry about. But, people with a good pension plan probably have that too!

sda · April 2019

As dad always says money isn’t important unless you don’t have it. Hard truth.

tjc78 · April 2019

@driver100
I completely see where you are coming from. You worked hard, it paid off and now you can enjoy things like a few nice cars and a summer home.

It's funny how everyone prioritizes things differently. Some people have to have a monster house yet will drive the cheapest car they can find. Others live in a shack and drive a Cadillac.

Our home is modest and in some ways I wouldn't mind moving to something bigger, but our dream is to have a condo at the beach. In a few years we hope to make that happen, if we blew the budget on a bigger primary home we wouldn't be able to do that.

abacomike · April 2019

My pension is like having 2 million dollars in the bank earning 3.0%. My Social Security is not a lot, but it helps at $1450 net per month. My condo is paid for. So, even though I do not have a million dollars or anywhere near that amount, it was enough to retire on.

That’s how I made my decision to retire.

tjc78 · April 2019

My Mother's 401k (combined hers and my late step-dads) was very modest, no where near a million. With some careful planning with the bank she has been able to draw a decent monthly stipend while still gaining on the principal.

I think that is the way to go. If you can retire and not touch your principal balance you are doing well.

stickguy · April 2019

tjc78 said:
@driver100
I completely see where you are coming from. You worked hard, it paid off and now you can enjoy things like a few nice cars and a summer home.

It's funny how everyone prioritizes things differently. Some people have to have a monster house yet will drive the cheapest car they can find. Others live in a shack and drive a Cadillac.

Our home is modest and in some ways I wouldn't mind moving to something bigger, but our dream is to have a condo at the beach. In a few years we hope to make that happen, if we blew the budget on a bigger primary home we wouldn't be able to do that.

Wish that back in the 90s, we stayed in our smaller place in Burlington and bought a house in SH instead to go with it, rather than moving here. Other than the school issue!

fintail · April 2019

I think if pensions are counted, and real estate is counted in hot/lucky markets, there are more "middle class millionaires" out there than some may imagine, as well (although a small minority in terms of overall population, even in a specific age demographic). The money may not be immediately liquid, but it is virtually guaranteed to be there in some form. A good friend of mine's parents have 3 public sector pensions which no doubt have a respectable NPV. They were never exactly wealthy when he was growing up (dad a park ranger and reservist, mom a teacher), but now they definitely don't fret about money. They still live somewhat frugally in terms of living quarters, living out of a park model in a senior park and a 5th wheel while on the road, but spare no expense in travel, having taken many first class international trips. However, they don't get around so well anymore, and one may argue it is better to travel when more physically able.

And that's right, Berkshire Hathaway is the one that can reach that dreamy 15%+ year in year out, at least so far. Any others?

berri · April 2019

As long as you are not in financial trouble, I think quality of life is more important than how much your net worth is. Besides, net worth is on paper and is often tied up in assets like a home. At the end you can't take the money with you, so enjoy life, family and friends. There is always someone you know with more than you have and someone with less, no sense worrying about it.

graphicguy · April 2019

@driver100 ...you bring up very good points. I think most of us here can say the same thing about careers and wealth (or lack thereof). There is no “quick get rich schemes” that have paid any of us off (at least, I’m not aware of any).

You work hard over a long period of time and end up comfortable (at least that’s the hope) further down the line when you can pull up a little bit and not grind it out as hard as you used to.

Stocks? I got lucky on a few (buying Apple stock in 1988 was one), and whiffed terribly on others (the GE stock everyone is talking about). Stuck with the BlueChips mostly (P&G being local and a favorite BlueChip). Had some real estate plays....some good, some not so good.

My current company’s stock has done quite well recently. But, I shorted it about 7-8 years ago, because it seemed “disfunctional”. Obviously, they pulled themselves out of it.

At the end of the day, I can’t afford a Bugatti (at least not a new one). But, I can afford to get in and out of cars relatively easily....to the point where I don’t worry if I can get 150K miles out of it, or even 75K miles out of it.

And, I consider myself fortunate.

tjc78 · April 2019

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:
@driver100
I completely see where you are coming from. You worked hard, it paid off and now you can enjoy things like a few nice cars and a summer home.

It's funny how everyone prioritizes things differently. Some people have to have a monster house yet will drive the cheapest car they can find. Others live in a shack and drive a Cadillac.

Our home is modest and in some ways I wouldn't mind moving to something bigger, but our dream is to have a condo at the beach. In a few years we hope to make that happen, if we blew the budget on a bigger primary home we wouldn't be able to do that.
Wish that back in the 90s, we stayed in our smaller place in Burlington and bought a house in SH instead to go with it, rather than moving here. Other than the school issue!

Yeah, that's an issue. I feel more comfortable with our grade school system seeing the schools and talking with the teachers and principle I'm a little scared of the high school, but we have a long way to worry about that. If we have to pay for private high school... so be it. By then our primary home will be nearly paid off.

I'm hoping by the end 2021 we will be in something at the shore or at least shopping. Wildwood Crest is where we want to be (as close to Diamond Beach as possible). We like that area as it's nice and quiet but only a 10 minute ride to the attractions of the boardwalk (which the kids love)

abacomike · April 2019

driver100 said:

fintail said:
Was this an S-Class or higher AMG model or something? That's a big payment.

ruking1 said:

I’m a tad confused here. One spends $ 600. + on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease, unscheduled maintenance: alignment. In addition, spending say $1,432. per mo (lease) did not guarantee NO unscheduled maintenance. Indeed, it will cause/caused higher $ tire/s replacement & another alignment/check.

If I had a $600 unscheduled maintenance bill on a Honda Pilot with 136,000 miles, I’d pretty close to demand they cover it, warranty or NOT.

Your 2nd paragraph can be better, easily seen by CPMD: aka., $cost per mile driven.

I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge.

I am really confused....I have no idea what the $600+ on a new 2018? Miles? MB lease......etc was all about.

And ruking says: "I used a 2004 Honda Civic @ $ .0332 CPMD: depreciation. With NO $ figures, unnecessary fear, negative doubt & lack of precision are spread.

I would be beyond rapacious if I let a daughter go to doctoral studies/ school, 2,600 miles away with an unreliable & non durable car, even with 250,000 miles. Was/is this car durable and reliable? You be the judge"

What does this mean?

I am sure some cars get to 250000 miles and are OK, my neighbors VW diesel had 300000 miles on it when the engine froze up. Some cars are fine for 400k miles, but, I would rather not risk the car dying on me before I can get something for it as a trade in. There is no right or wrong...it is what your gambling/tolerance level is.

You know....bulls and bears can make money in the market, but pigs can get slaughtered. Same kind of theory.

The only person on this forum who has a 2018 S Class Mercedes and pays about $600 per month on a lease with MB Leasing and has had alignments, etc., is me. So I am assuming "ruking" was attempting some sort of "slam" against me. I do not want to respond to his comments, although there are many, but I decided to respond to yours since you questioned what the heck he was talking about. There, I'm done!

stickguy · April 2019

Nice down there. Certainly cheaper than SH! Though so is Malibu at this point.

We stopped going to the BW years ago when the kids got older. None of the adults could take it! Those rides beat you up when you top 50.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2019

sda said:
As dad always says money isn’t important unless you don’t have it. Hard truth.

Money is a "lubricant". It's the WD-40 of everyday life.

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