The trick here is to wash just BEFORE any stretch of nice days over the winter. If you wait and try to go on the nice day, you'll wind up in a long line
If It is mild enough I will give mine a two bucket wash, otherwise I take it to a detail shop about five minutes from home and get it hand washed about once a week during winter.
Cheers Pat.
Okay, that's intense. I don't think I could ever understand that. I do respect and appreciate your dedication, though!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
If It is mild enough I will give mine a two bucket wash, otherwise I take it to a detail shop about five minutes from home and get it hand washed about once a week during winter.
Cheers Pat.
Okay, that's intense. I don't think I could ever understand that. I do respect and appreciate your dedication, though!
It comes from Being dirt poor as a kid, we didn't have much, so when you got something new, you sure learned how to take care of it, this ethic has followed throughout my whole life.
If It is mild enough I will give mine a two bucket wash, otherwise I take it to a detail shop about five minutes from home and get it hand washed about once a week during winter.
Cheers Pat.
Okay, that's intense. I don't think I could ever understand that. I do respect and appreciate your dedication, though!
It comes from Being dirt poor as a kid, we didn't have much, so when you got something new, you sure learned how to take care of it, this ethic has followed throughout my whole life.
Wow, no activity here in 9 months! Despite Covid-19, we are still alive in NY. Thought of you guys as we put a deposit on a CPO 2018 Forester Limited today to replace the 2013 Honda CR-V we lost to a traffic accident a few weeks back.
Wow, no activity here in 9 months! Despite Covid-19, we are still alive in NY. Thought of you guys as we put a deposit on a CPO 2018 Forester Limited today to replace the 2013 Honda CR-V we lost to a traffic accident a few weeks back.
Yeah, most of the "bums" here have long since moved over to Facebook for their conversations. I am still around, though I don't post in the Subaru-specific threads except in a responsive capacity.
I hope you and your family were not injured in the crash! A crash is always the worst way to lose a vehicle. Hopefully the Forester serves your family well for many years to come! What are the details.... color, miles, etc.?
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I'm still around. Waiting to travel again. Was scheduled for northern Italy in April (right at the peak of their pandemic), so glad it was cancelled. Greece in late Sept was also cancelled. Looks like no trips this year. Zoom meetings w/ kids & grandkids.
Speaking of crashes, my elder daughter and her husband were in a rollover crash recently in their ~1 year old Infinity Q50 suv with <11,000 miles. No injuries other than scrapes and bruises, car was totaled. Fortunately, the kids weren't in the car. She's getting a do-over in selecting her new car. So many choices...
She's getting a do-over in selecting her new car. So many choices...
There is that as an advantage! The last time we had such an opportunity, my wife was quite boring and demanded that I replace her car "with the same thing." Sadly, she really did mean "THE SAME THING," so even my close approximation has not been good enough for her. She still waxes poetic about how much better her 2010 Forester was than the 2013 Forester.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Any Subaru owners care to comment briefly on their ownership experiences? How reliable do you think a Subaru today is likely to be? What are some of your favorite features unique to Subaru?
I am very much in the minority on my Subaru take these days.... I hate that the company is so safety-focused that they have nannied up their entire lineup now. As of the 2024 model year, there is no more manual transmission on anything outside of STI, if I recall correctly. Possibly still on the base model Impreza. Anyhow, the "Eyesight" system doesn't play nice with manual transmissions, so they ditched it in favor of "Eyesight." Folks who want that sort of thing say it's an excellent implementation, but I think it is a waste of space and weight.
For reliability, though, I think they're great. Our 2018 Crosstrek, which is the newest I've owned, is at 80,000 miles now with zero issues. The older ones have had their share, but mostly just maintenance-related things. All the new models use the F series of engines, so I think they should be more similar to the Crosstrek.
As far as automatic transmissions go, my experience with the CVT is positive. It is an efficient and responsive unit with no reliability issues given proper maintenance.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Below is a link to the Leave No Trace Subaru VIP program. Memberships start at $50 a year, and 6 months after that it appears that, if you can find a participating Subaru dealer, you can purchase or lease a Subaru for invoice with a voucher from SOA.
Leave No Trace is a non-profit that works with the National parks and other organizations to minimize the impacts of vacations in nature.
"Purchase or lease a new Subaru vehicle with no haggling, no negotiation, no pressure – just a great deal on a new Subaru! Save between $1,000 – $3,000 off the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP)* (depending on model and accessories). In addition, your VIP price will be further reduced by any applicable zone or regional cash incentives in effect at the time of purchase. Special rates may also be available to qualified buyers should you prefer to finance or lease your new Subaru. Generally, all model lines are included in this offer, however all sales are subject to availability and retailer discretion.
Am I Eligible? To be eligible for the Subaru VIP Program, you must be an active member of Leave No Trace for at least six months prior to requesting a VIP form.
What is the Process? Once you have been a current member of Leave No Trace for six months, the process to take part in the Subaru VIP Program is very simple:
Contact your local dealer: Ask if they participate in the Subaru VIP Program. Also, make sure they have the vehicle you would like in stock, or can order the vehicle. Contact the Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics: Email Membership@LNT.org with the following information: Member ID Number (if you know it), Email Address, Phone Number, Home Address and the name of the Subaru Dealership you plan on working with. The Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics will send a request into Subaru of America: Subaru VIP requests are submitted to Subaru Corporate every 1-3 business days. Once submitted Subaru Corporate will email both you and your dealership within 24 hours with a VIP Authorization form."
Reading up on Subaru Ascent maintenance recommendations, I was surprised to see that Subaru wants the spark plugs changed at 60,000 miles, compared to the 100k intervals that Honda and most others go with. I wonder why? Is it something about the design of the Boxer engine that makes them harder on spark plugs? Because of where the plugs are located in an Ascent engine this is a more costly service than it is for other brands. Not a big deal, but not a plus factor either.
Oil changes at my local Subaru dealer at $85, compared to $60 at the Acura dealer. Again, not a big deal, but it does seem like service with a Subaru might be more expensive.
But the Boxer engine has advantages, in that it's more naturally balanced, and has a lower center of gravity. Are there other advantages?
This 6-minute video goes over advantages as well as disadvantages of boxer engines. As he says, a boxer has "two camshafts, two camshaft seals, two camshaft sensors, two head gaskets, two exhaust manifold seals...There are more moving parts than an in-line 4-cylinder, and so more likelihood that you're going to be spending money fixing stuff"—at least in the long run.
Subaru oil changes are definitely pricy, compared to other competitive models.
Also, the engine basically has two banks vs. one bank on an in-line engine. This doubles the amount of sensors that can have issues (and the cost of replacing them)
Life expectancy of spark plugs is largely a function of the material from which the core is made. Copper plugs are ~30,000 miles, platinum plugs are ~60,000 miles, and iridium plugs are ~100,000 miles. There can be differences in spark "heat" as well as required gap in the metals, too, so my guess is that Subaru chose platinum plugs as their OE units.
IIRC, I replaced the OE plugs on my Forester at about 85,000 miles (would need to check my records for exact timing), and I didn't really notice any performance issues at that time. I replaced the ignition coils last spring because it seemed like it took a little longer than expected for the car to start in the mornings. Though I'm not fully convinced that doing so made a significant difference, I would normally replace plug wires on a similar interval, so I figure this wasn't out of line (the individual coils that sit atop each plug replace a distributor and plug wires).
I'm over 130,000 miles on the car now. Additionally, I have yet to replace plugs on the Crosstrek, which is at 80,000 miles, and it runs as-new (well, as-36,000 miles, which is what it had when we bought it three years ago).
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
This is one of the videos on Subaru I watched a while ago. Although there were some problems, some as recently as c.2015, for the last several years Subarus have had good reliability.
Seeing the Monroney page, how accurate are the EPA mileage numbers nowadays? None of the recent cars I'm interested in appear better than the real world numbers of my Audi A4.
Pretty decent fuel economy numbers for a car that size! Certainly a lot better than the last Outback I had, and that car was substantially smaller than a modern Outback.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Just looked it up, and the weight of the Outback Premium is about 3,660 pounds. It's something that a 4-cylinder non-turbo engine can pull it around, although people who need/want acceleration and/or greater towing capacity should clearly get the turbo.
Haven't had enough time to check city mpg, but I did get one readout of about 20 miles of highway by resetting the trip computer just as I started out. This was in Louisville and there was a bit of traffic, and my speed was mostly around 60. By the time I got home the readout said 34 mpg. So going 70 probably you could get 32, especially once the engine is broken in.
Not sure what your history is with Subaru, but you should expect an optimistic readout of between 0.5 and 1.5 mpg. Not sure why it is so variable, but that's my experience, and it's been pretty consistent since Subaru first introduced that feature (at least through 2018, which is the MY of our Crosstrek).
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
During the last few week when we've been thinking about buying a car, one of the things I used at Subaru.com was "build and price your Subaru." At first we were thinking this car might be for our daughter, and looked at the Impreza base, which for 24k is a maybe a good value. But no blind-spot monitoring at that price, and it does seem to have blind spots in the rear. Stepping up to the Legacy sedan the base price there is 26k, and it comes with the bigger 2.5 engine. I sat in one on the lot without taking a test drive, and it seems like a nice sedan for the money. For the price of a Civic you can get a mid-size sedan with AWD. But the thing Subaru seems best at is wagons that are SUVs, and so buying a sedan from Subaru seemed to kinda miss the point, which is in part why the Legacy is being discontinued in six months or so.
The base Outback wagon has a list price with delivery charge of $30,240. Given that the average new vehicle these days costs about $47,000, the base Outback has a lot of features and room for the money. The base has the essentials, but they are almost never found on dealer lots, and so need to be special ordered. Plus you still have to use a key in the ignition to start them, and there's a limited selection of colors (no red), etc.
The Outback Premium has an msrp of $32,540, and so $2300 more. As I was now considering the Outback for my wife and the two of us, I imagined what the various things the Premium has would be worth to us.
Crimson Pearl color: $500 Heated side mirrors with turn signal indicators: 500 LED rear gate light: 200 Tinted glass for rear windows: 400 Heated seats: 500 Windshield wiper and rear wiper de-icers: 400 10-way power driver's seat with lumbar support: 500 11" screen with wireless AndroidAuto/CarPlay: 800 6-speaker sound system: 200 Rear seat vents and power outlets: 500 Leather wrapped steering wheel and shifter: 200 Dual zone climate control: 400 Cargo cover: 200 Starlink system (aka OnStar) : 200
So to me this seemed to add up to at least $5k in terms of being a more enjoyable, nicer, and functional car with a color my wife wanted. But Subaru tricks you a little from my pov, because after all that you still don't have remote entry and push-button start. You need to get Option package 13 with various things to get push-button start, but even with 13 you still don't get remote start, which is desirable for us because our garage unfortunately is filled with stuff.
So Option package 15 for the Outback costs $3000, but here's what you get...
Smart entry and push-button start: 800 Hands-free power rear tailgate with pin code: 600 Moonroof: 400 Blind spot and cross traffic detection: 1000 Built-in navigation system: 400 Remote start with app: 600
That seems like around $3800 to us, and so also worth it. The car had included at the factory rubber mud mats that we didn't want, and just left at the dealer for another customer, but otherwise the car seemed what we wanted and actually quite loaded and rather luxurious.
But we went $3k over our original self-imposed budget of $30k + TTL.
Oh, and getting option package 15 the Outback also gets slightly fancier contrast fabric for the seats that isn't completely back as it is with the Outback without 15. That lighter color areas are worth a few hundred bucks to us too.
Sounds like a good value proposition all around! I bought an Outback "base" - the very first year they had such a thing, actually, way back in 2007. While it was about $2,000 less than the Premium, any dollar spent on a car was a dollar I didn't have in those days, so it was enough of a gap that I couldn't justify it. However, for most folks, I think they'll find that step up to be well worth the cost, and I think Subaru only really has the Base on paper nowadays anyway so as to lower the "starting price."
It seems crazy to me that average new car prices are $47K (down a bit from their high in, I think, 2023)! The most I've ever spent on a car was $38,000, and that is about 50% more than the next car on the list. I've bought three new Subarus, and all were under $24K.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
This guy talks about all the maintenance and repairs on his 2010 Subaru Impreza that he does himself, including head gaskets, suspension stuff, etc. He talks it up like it's great, but it sounds more like a nightmare to me. Seems like a good argument right here to think of trading in your car of whatever make after about ten years or 120k miles, whichever comes first...
Here's a mechanic changing the transmission fluid on an Outback. Huge range of recommendations on this. Subaru says "lifetime fluid" in normal use, others say change every 50-60k, still others say every 30k. We only have 7k on ours so far, but thinking right now of going with the middle option.
Since I'm now a Subaru owner, and really like our Outback, I've gotten more interested in Subaru's history. Subaru chose the site for their factory in Indiana way back in 1986—39 years ago. Production began in 1989, with the factory shared for the first dozen years or so with Izusu. Subaru took over the factory entirely in 2004. Starting in 2007, Subaru started making the Camry for Toyota in the Indiana factory, but that ended in 2016. The factory has been expanded several times since it opened, and currently has the capacity to make about 390,000 vehicles a year. The factory runs three shifts, around the clock, in order to make that production number. From Subaru's site here are the production numbers starting in 2011. Our Outback was made in this factory, and I'm thinking of taking a tour.
As recently as 2010 Subaru's sales in the US were around 264,000. For 2024 Subaru sales in the US were 668,000. Percentage-wise that seems to be an increase of about 250% in that time. Market share has grown from around 2% in 2010 to around 4.2% now. Currently more than half of Subarus sold in the US are made here, while the rest come from Japan.
Here are some statistics on the Indiana factory....
The Indiana factory is impressive, for sure! Subaru had sustained "record growth" month over month for, IIRC, a solid ten years. It was really an unprecedented time, particularly at *that* time, which started in the 2008 calendar year, when the industry as a whole was in the throes of massive turmoil. The all-new, third generation 2009 Forester, dubbed "SH", marked the beginning of a huge turnaround for the company.
In some ways, I was sad to see the fourth generation Outback (2010-2014) do as well as it did, because that really marked the end of Subaru as a driver's car and the beginning of the "safety appliance" era. Customers spoke with their wallets, and Subaru heard them, loud and clear!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
. . .really marked the end of Subaru as a driver's car and the beginning of the "safety appliance" era.
Yeah, we (mostly I) missed the boat when we bought our Forester. I liked it fine, but would have preferred a manual transmission, the availability of which disappeared a year or two later.
We'll never intentionally try a crazy hill like that in our Outback, so more or less irrelevant in a way. But maybe good to know that in extreme situations a Subaru can often handle things?
Comments
Cheers Pat.
I hope you and your family were not injured in the crash! A crash is always the worst way to lose a vehicle. Hopefully the Forester serves your family well for many years to come! What are the details.... color, miles, etc.?
Zoom meetings w/ kids & grandkids.
Speaking of crashes, my elder daughter and her husband were in a rollover crash recently in their ~1 year old Infinity Q50 suv with <11,000 miles. No injuries other than scrapes and bruises, car was totaled. Fortunately, the kids weren't in the car. She's getting a do-over in selecting her new car. So many choices...
For reliability, though, I think they're great. Our 2018 Crosstrek, which is the newest I've owned, is at 80,000 miles now with zero issues. The older ones have had their share, but mostly just maintenance-related things. All the new models use the F series of engines, so I think they should be more similar to the Crosstrek.
As far as automatic transmissions go, my experience with the CVT is positive. It is an efficient and responsive unit with no reliability issues given proper maintenance.
Now there's no hope.
Leave No Trace is a non-profit that works with the National parks and other organizations to minimize the impacts of vacations in nature.
https://lnt.org/give/subaru-vip-program/
"Purchase or lease a new Subaru vehicle with no haggling, no negotiation, no pressure – just a great deal on a new Subaru! Save between $1,000 – $3,000 off the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP)* (depending on model and accessories). In addition, your VIP price will be further reduced by any applicable zone or regional cash incentives in effect at the time of purchase. Special rates may also be available to qualified buyers should you prefer to finance or lease your new Subaru. Generally, all model lines are included in this offer, however all sales are subject to availability and retailer discretion.
Am I Eligible?
To be eligible for the Subaru VIP Program, you must be an active member of Leave No Trace for at least six months prior to requesting a VIP form.
What is the Process?
Once you have been a current member of Leave No Trace for six months, the process to take part in the Subaru VIP Program is very simple:
Contact your local dealer: Ask if they participate in the Subaru VIP Program. Also, make sure they have the vehicle you would like in stock, or can order the vehicle.
Contact the Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics: Email Membership@LNT.org with the following information: Member ID Number (if you know it), Email Address, Phone Number, Home Address and the name of the Subaru Dealership you plan on working with.
The Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics will send a request into Subaru of America: Subaru VIP requests are submitted to Subaru Corporate every 1-3 business days. Once submitted Subaru Corporate will email both you and your dealership within 24 hours with a VIP Authorization form."
Oil changes at my local Subaru dealer at $85, compared to $60 at the Acura dealer. Again, not a big deal, but it does seem like service with a Subaru might be more expensive.
But the Boxer engine has advantages, in that it's more naturally balanced, and has a lower center of gravity. Are there other advantages?
This 6-minute video goes over advantages as well as disadvantages of boxer engines. As he says, a boxer has "two camshafts, two camshaft seals, two camshaft sensors, two head gaskets, two exhaust manifold seals...There are more moving parts than an in-line 4-cylinder, and so more likelihood that you're going to be spending money fixing stuff"—at least in the long run.
Also, the engine basically has two banks vs. one bank on an in-line engine. This doubles the amount of sensors that can have issues (and the cost of replacing them)
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IIRC, I replaced the OE plugs on my Forester at about 85,000 miles (would need to check my records for exact timing), and I didn't really notice any performance issues at that time. I replaced the ignition coils last spring because it seemed like it took a little longer than expected for the car to start in the mornings. Though I'm not fully convinced that doing so made a significant difference, I would normally replace plug wires on a similar interval, so I figure this wasn't out of line (the individual coils that sit atop each plug replace a distributor and plug wires).
I'm over 130,000 miles on the car now. Additionally, I have yet to replace plugs on the Crosstrek, which is at 80,000 miles, and it runs as-new (well, as-36,000 miles, which is what it had when we bought it three years ago).
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
None of the recent cars I'm interested in appear better than the real world numbers of my Audi A4.
Haven't had enough time to check city mpg, but I did get one readout of about 20 miles of highway by resetting the trip computer just as I started out. This was in Louisville and there was a bit of traffic, and my speed was mostly around 60. By the time I got home the readout said 34 mpg. So going 70 probably you could get 32, especially once the engine is broken in.
The base Outback wagon has a list price with delivery charge of $30,240. Given that the average new vehicle these days costs about $47,000, the base Outback has a lot of features and room for the money. The base has the essentials, but they are almost never found on dealer lots, and so need to be special ordered. Plus you still have to use a key in the ignition to start them, and there's a limited selection of colors (no red), etc.
The Outback Premium has an msrp of $32,540, and so $2300 more. As I was now considering the Outback for my wife and the two of us, I imagined what the various things the Premium has would be worth to us.
Crimson Pearl color: $500
Heated side mirrors with turn signal indicators: 500
LED rear gate light: 200
Tinted glass for rear windows: 400
Heated seats: 500
Windshield wiper and rear wiper de-icers: 400
10-way power driver's seat with lumbar support: 500
11" screen with wireless AndroidAuto/CarPlay: 800
6-speaker sound system: 200
Rear seat vents and power outlets: 500
Leather wrapped steering wheel and shifter: 200
Dual zone climate control: 400
Cargo cover: 200
Starlink system (aka OnStar) : 200
So to me this seemed to add up to at least $5k in terms of being a more enjoyable, nicer, and functional car with a color my wife wanted. But Subaru tricks you a little from my pov, because after all that you still don't have remote entry and push-button start. You need to get Option package 13 with various things to get push-button start, but even with 13 you still don't get remote start, which is desirable for us because our garage unfortunately is filled with stuff.
Smart entry and push-button start: 800
Hands-free power rear tailgate with pin code: 600
Moonroof: 400
Blind spot and cross traffic detection: 1000
Built-in navigation system: 400
Remote start with app: 600
That seems like around $3800 to us, and so also worth it. The car had included at the factory rubber mud mats that we didn't want, and just left at the dealer for another customer, but otherwise the car seemed what we wanted and actually quite loaded and rather luxurious.
But we went $3k over our original self-imposed budget of $30k + TTL.
Oh, and getting option package 15 the Outback also gets slightly fancier contrast fabric for the seats that isn't completely back as it is with the Outback without 15. That lighter color areas are worth a few hundred bucks to us too.
It seems crazy to me that average new car prices are $47K (down a bit from their high in, I think, 2023)! The most I've ever spent on a car was $38,000, and that is about 50% more than the next car on the list. I've bought three new Subarus, and all were under $24K.
https://www.subaru-sia.com/production-volume
Here are some statistics on the Indiana factory....
https://www.subaru-sia.com/stats
In some ways, I was sad to see the fourth generation Outback (2010-2014) do as well as it did, because that really marked the end of Subaru as a driver's car and the beginning of the "safety appliance" era. Customers spoke with their wallets, and Subaru heard them, loud and clear!
Starting at 9 minutes on this video the same driver tries to drive up what appears to be a similar hill in the Mazda CX-50, but it doesn't make it.
We'll never intentionally try a crazy hill like that in our Outback, so more or less irrelevant in a way. But maybe good to know that in extreme situations a Subaru can often handle things?