Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are a gimmick, just like the red "start" button on the Honda S2000. I can do without gimmicks, thank you.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    To the Americans who always want show and no go... If it looks good, and has lots of cheapo things on it, they'll scoop it up. He was all raving about how they are going to offer spoiler kits for the front? rear and sides? (side spoilers? what the heck are those?)

    I think it would have been cheaper for them just to crank out the same cars they have elsewhere in the world (4 Pot Brakes, 6 speed MT, 4Speed Auto-manual, HID)

    -mike
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    Well, I can't imagine that aluminum pedals (pointless though they may be) could really be all that expensive. And I do like what photos I've seen of the WRX interior. And it gets bonus points for having a functional hood scoop for a change.

    The Mac debate: I'm another longtime (since '85; didn't own any computer in '84) Mac user -- but I am willing to confess that the Amiga was also just cool as heck in the mid-80s!
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Side spoilers = ground effects...mainly for show. If I was in the market, I wouldn't even consider a WRX w/o adding the rear spoiler. It looks too much of a sleeper w/o one.

    The HID lights and 4 pot brakes (which I understand are same as the current Imprezas, and therefore interchangable) should at least be options. I was definitely disappointed by the lack of the sem-auto manual that they get in Japan. At least it would be somewhat of a compromise for those who want a manual, but because of rush hour traffic would rather get an auto. Perhaps the cost of licensing the Tiptronic from Porsche for the N.American market was too much? Another thing that I would've liked to see is the sem-automatic climate control system, again, at least as an option.

    The aluminum pedals look good, but I hope they have a lot of rubber traction pads. I found the ones in the IS300 (even thought they had the rubber pads) a little slippery, especially it started raining during the test drive and the base of my shoes got wet (I got out of the car and got back in just to test this).

    Interesting that they use the Bridgestone RE32 tires. I thought those weren't particularly very good from the comments here, so I'm surprised that they added them to the WRX. Seems rather out of place for that car. Perhaps they figure that owners will immediately upgrade to the 17" BBS wheels that were mentioned?


    Drew
    Host
    Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...but it's going to be less than $24K! They NEED a successful launch right away, so I assume they cut a few things to get that price down. I'm willing to bet 4 pots and HID show up on the option list next model year.

    Chat:
    Aside from sticking to the press release like a WRX on a twistie, Mr. Whelan responded too slowly to get through many questions in one hour. I had both the Auditorium window, and the chat window open, and it was mayhem in the Chat room. The i-clubbers came out of the woodwork, and were frustrated by questions as to price and hp, info which was available on the wrx site. But they can't seriously expect an official rep to cough up anything new at this point, can they? I mean, Patti would have been a better guest, IMHO, but I don't think even she would have strayed from the corporate line. Well, maybe a LEETLE more :)

    p.s.
    Paisan is a potty mouth in chat rooms! ;'))
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well what's the point in having an interactive discussion with an SOA rep, if all they are going to do is regurgitate what is in the paperwork? Mike could have saved his time, and everyone elses by saying "Please read the paperwork, cause I'm not telling you anything that isn't in there."

    As far as options down the road... I can't afford one this year or for the next 4 years, so, it's not that much of a concern, but It has to be cheaper to go with what is already rolling off the assembly lines rather than change it just for us. Also they could have saved $ on stuff like CD players, etc. and put it toward performance stuff since most audiophiles will just tear out the stereo and put in their own stuff!

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    true, true. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The price is lower than expected, so they had to leave something out. What did you expect?

    Let's face it. For every autocrosser and true i Club fan, there are four outsiders that will buy it for the novelty and bragging rights. And for that majority, a CD changer and the styling cues are more important.

    I like the HIDs, don't get me wrong. They even look better than the standard headlights, especially when they're on (Ken sent me a JDM video which shows WRXs in action - very cool).

    4 pot brakes are available from the SPT catalog now, so I'm sure the enthusiasts will order them.

    As for the chat, way too much static. I felt bad for Dana, who was flooded with too much nonsense to have time to find the intelligent questions.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    is here.
    Q. Will N. America get HID?
    A. No.
    Q. Will N. America get the Sport-shift automatic?
    A. No.
    Q. Will Subaru get involved with drag-racing or autocrossing?
    A. No.
    Q. Will we get an STi?
    A. No plans at this time. If there is enough demand we could get it within two years.

    I guess we shouldn't be surprised he was so tight-lipped about future plans. We'll probably be getting info from other sources on the web though. :)
    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I just hate when a company says "Oh we are embracing our people, we want to know what they want, we want to be one with them" and then turn around and act completely opposite. VERY hipocritical if you ask me. I rather see a company say "We don't care what you want, so don't even bother asking" than give me lip service! This just really annoyed me to no end.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I understand, but that depends on who they consider their customers to be. I'm sure they conducted studies.

    It's just too bad we weren't the focus group!

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    the Focus group!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, stop it! You're killing me! that's for the autocrossers, right? AAA, ha ha ha ha!
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    that some of us knows more about this new WRX thing that weland. I guess he has to be tight lipped. Or he'll be back selling cars at some Subaru dealership in the middle of nowhere. =)

    IMHO, I would love to have 4 potters. But seriously I can guarantee you most of the owners will hardly break a sweat out of the 2 pot brakes on daily drives let alone 4 pot brakes. So why waste the cost and over engineer something which will never be used to it potential anyways right? Unless you see the tracks or autoX your car the 2 pot brakes are more than enough on day to day driving. Besides, reviewers who drove the North American WRX said that the brakes are pwoerful.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Mike Smith wasn't the moderator.
  • jresjres Member Posts: 69
    It would be a sign that Subaru was thinking about quality and longevity rather than cost if they added better brakes and such.
    My "other car" is an 89 Nissan 240 DX which has many of the same heavy duty parts as it's Japanese Sped counterpart with a romper stopper engine. The 240 has up until recently needed next to no repair and even routine maintenance items like brake pads and clutch are extremely long lived. At almost 12 years and 180 I, I'm more than a little happy that Nissan "Overbuild" my car.
    By the way count me in as a die hard Amiga fan, even though I'm not using them any more, my two A 500's and my A 3000 still sit in the basement, I cant bear to part with them.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well on their own web page, Subaru compares the WRX to the A4 1.8T and the BMW 3 series. Do you think that either of those companies would skimp on their premier vehicle? The WRX isn't trying to compete with civics anymore, if they want to go after the big dogs, they've got to produce a quality item... Also why do they give 4pot brakes and HID outside the US and not here?

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Just checked back in after a couple days. Missed the chat, although by your comments I'd guess I didn't miss much.

    Sure all that missing performance stuff is disappointing - I'm especially disappointed by the lack of manumatic. But I'd have to agree more with Juice's and Lucien's opinions than Paisan's on this one. Probably some decontenting to keep the price down and satisfy most of the novelty crowd. The goodies will then be future options and/or SPT accessories - or maybe make up a future STi or RA model. The niche for a 4-pot, HID, 280hp, no power anything, no radio model a la Porsche's 911 Club Sport would be very small indeed (think SoA would sell 500 here?) but just imagine the halo effect.

    Anyway, my $0.02. Dennis (bluesubie) - haven't forgotten you, my fellow Horryite. See you later offline.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point ramon, what's important is stopping distances and fade resistance, not how many calipers it has.

    Feel too, hope it's not spongy.

    I didn't even see Mike there, was he?

    As for skimping, yes, BMW and Audi skimp, big time! Vinyl seats. Stability control optional. Sports package is extra cost. Metallic paint and moonroof are too. Donuts on wagons.

    Fine, they are upscale, but starting prices are very misleading because you'll spend several grand on options. Luxury car, luxury price.

    Ed's onto something, though. I've always thought they should sell a lightened, de-contented performance version. Lose the entire stereo to save weight, give us the brakes and lights. Pure performance car, no frills. Could even drop the power windows and such.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ed -- I agree with the manumatic. I was suprised that the new H6 OB didn't get that as standard equipment. Many of the vehicles that it competes with comes wiht sequential-shift when you opt for an auto tranny.

    Juice -- I also dislike that "metallic paint extra" option with some European cars. They often leave with no other choice unless you're into flat black or white.

    Ken
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    not sure if you ever sat in the new bimmers. but they are not worth the freakin' price tag! my folks got a 330Ci. It sure looks nice. But guess what? It doesn't have 4 pot brakes either! It has large 12.8" discs so what? S4...no 4 pot either. But it stops on a dime!
    Alot of stuff you want on bimmers are on packages which costs several grand more over base. And that includes a/c too. That is stupid!
    For the price the WRX is way above it's competition. 330Xi and Audi whatever quattro. I like the basicness of the WRX. Keep the price down! If I want more stopping power, I'd go out and buy myself a set of Brembo brake kit. Heck, I don't even want a 17". I rather much prefer if they could just take the wheel and tires out since I have an extra set which i can use on the WRX. =) Keep the price down. Only thing I do like to see are sports seats. The European versions have Rally Sport Seats which I really like. But it's missing here. I would buy that as an option. That's prolly what I would want. Otherwise, keep it base. Save the money for other things. If you want a luxo cruiser, please look elsewhere.
    Also I think Subaru's reliability is bullet proof. All their cars are over engineered to last long. Even to the basest of base models.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    down the road, we do get an STi... you can be assured that all the missing goodies from the (entry-level) WRX will be there. Also, you can expect to pay another $10K or so.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the rest of the Impreza lineup? It sounds like they were nowhere to be found at Detroit?! When are we going to hear the specifics on those models?

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Maybe Edmunds was overwhelmed with the response? Perhaps it should have been a 2-hour event, rather than a 1-hour event?

    In any case, I was very disappointed. I didn't learn anything new. I was a spectator, not a participant—which is what I expected to be. I had many questions, none of which were answered. The responses were very slow in coming. Of that hour, we had maybe(?) 20 minutes of actual dialogue.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Q. Will Subaru get involved with drag-racing or autocrossing?
    A. No.


    That is incorrect. Subaru of America does in fact pay contingency money for autocross, they have paid out at the conclusion of the last two Solo2 nationals (and provided the courtesy cars for them). I don't know the amount paid out, but I do know that they subjectively determine the payout with the highest placing Subarus getting the most. I know someone that placed 29th in GS and I believe he got $25 to $50.

    Subaru of America also pays contingency money for SCCA ProRally, Patrick Richard wins quite a lot of it.

    -Colin
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Yea, he said they would support Autox through their relationship with SCCA. he said no to drag racing
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    It was no to drag racing, not auto-x.
    Dennis
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I gotta admit I haven't done my homework on the Blitzen, but is it possible that the manumatic there can't handle the torque curve of the H6? If not, that wouldn't preclude it from being available in the WRX. I mean come on, the 4EAT WRX has VTD; if you had the manumatic AND VTD I'd be hard pressed to choose the manual WRX over the auto, especially since AT makes sense for the bulk of my driving (that's what my Forester S has). I've driven an A4 with Tiptronic and called it good, and had a real blast with a BMW 540i Touring (wagon) with whatever BMW calls their manuamatic. For $54K the 540i Touring better be good; I can buy a Forester and a WRX for that money.

    I'll go on record again: I want to keep my Forester for at least 5 years, maybe longer. After that, I'd really be interested in a Legacy GT wagon with manumatic and either H6 or WRX turbo H4, but not with the current 2.5. On the other hand, if my phony stock options are ever worth anything maybe I'll keep the Forester and spring for a WRX sedan, hopefully with manumatic by that time. Make mine SWRT blue or black. Stuff the IPO Beemers.

    I've got a wheels question; I'll hop over to Modifications for that.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The WRX in Japan has VDC, and VDT with the sport-shift automatic. I'm sure the only reason we didn't get the VDC and sport-shift is to keep costs down.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the more up-market Legacy GT get the sport-shift and VDC in the future.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Huh. You don't say. I'd pay an extra $600-800 for manumatic in the WRX. If it comes in the GT wagon, I may be on board.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If you go to the SOJ site, and... with some luck (re: the Japanese/English text), you'll see VDC & sport-shift listed under the WRX automatic models.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ed, what's the driver behind your insistence on an automatic? Significant other? Heavy traffic?

    Just curious.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Isn't their WRX a higher-end model, though? Higher price, too?

    Bob tows, that may be one reason. A turbo won't be ideal for towing, even though it's rated to.

    Nice surprises on the WRX? I liked the following:

    * aluminum alloy hood that opens wide
    * 20/27 mpg - meets my 20+mpg idealistic pledge
    * it's an LEV! Save the earth!
    * 4th and 5th gear are overdrive
    * wagon's seats fold flat
    * thousands $$$ cheaper than I expected
    * liquid filled suspension bushings
    * isofix and tethers, all the safety stuff

    It ain't perfect:

    * requires 91 octane
    * wagon is heavier than my Forester!
    * 130mph limit means we don't know what it'll do
    * donut spare
    * single cup holder in dash - and the dual fits!

    Still, a minor complaint list. The 4 pots and other stuff can easily be added given the lower than expected cost, so those aren't really negatives.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd gladly pay a $1000 extra for the manumatic.

    1) I tow
    2) I live in NYC, Try driving a stick when you move 1 block per hour in rush hour traffic.
    3) It's nice to let others drive your car on trips

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    You hit it on the head pretty much except for the significant other (not that I don't have one, she's just not a factor in the choice). Heavy traffic - I live in the Philly metro area and do a lot of driving in the Northeast Corridor - the prime mover. Bad knees from baseball (I was a catcher) and football (nose tackle - inside linebacker) in my teens and early twenties the other. Manumatic gives the knees a break but lets you enjoy the shifting thrills.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Anyone know if a moonroof is available on the WRX?

    I noticed the tow rating is up from 1500# to 2000#. I'm assuming they still have the brake/unbraked trailer clause??

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I would consider a sport-shift as well for the same reasons as paisan (except towing).
    Also, no need to worry about cold weather shifts and other manual problems (I know, I know it's not what driving is about, etc. :-) ).

    Bob - no moonroof on the WRX.

    Dennis
  • nailitnailit Member Posts: 14
    According to the news and the weather channel there's about 5" of rain due tonight and tomorrow and between 18-24" of snow in the mountains with some snow starting at 3000 foot elevations. We're heading up to the mountains on Friday for a long weekend and hopefully it won't be too plowed out to have some fun with the new Forester :-). I want my kids to spend some time behind the wheel slipping and sliding and getting used to driving in sloppy weather. I'm just worried the rest of our friends "won't" make it. One is coming up in a 96 Caddy DeVille and the other is gonna be in a 87 Honda Prelude. The Caddy guy grew up in Portland, OR and lived in Vancouver, BC for about 20 years so I'm no too worried about him. The only show stopper might be the CHP stopping him to make him put on chains . The guy with the Prelude... I don't know what his winter weather driving experience is but I suspect he'll need chains too if he gets stopped. I'll try to get some pictures and share the ride. Look forward to catching up with you all when I get back. Rest easy and dream deep WRX thoughts. Best regards, Dale
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Didn't realize that the WRX wagon is heavier than a Forester L! I wonder how much the Outback Sport will weigh?

    Ken
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    A few excerpts from a review of the WRX by an Ann M. Job of The Associated Press (haven't been able to find it online to give a link to the whole review):
    "This is an amazingly capable car, holding its composure in all sorts of maneuvers. It feels agile and nimble, with body motions that are well controlled and predictable. ... "
    "I enjoyed zipping off from a stoplight and leaving BMWs in my wake. You could almost hear the other drivers thinking, ‘I paid how much for this car and just got beat by a Subaru?’ ... "
    "Riders do hear the engine at work a lot of the time. It’s part of the rally experience, after all, but makes for a noisy ride inside. I also noticed a tendency for the WRX to take big road bumps with a loud, harsh thump. ... "
    "Visibility is good, with a low hood and window pillars that aren’t big and blocky. The manual driver seat height adjuster is nifty — you lift or lower yourself by pumping up or down with a good-sized lever. Steering is crisp and responsive. ... "
    "The brake, accelerator and clutch pedals in the WRX are sporty looking, too. They are fitted with silver-colored, alloy pedal covers with rubber grips. As expected, the front bucket seats are very supportive, and good bolsters help hold the driver in place. ..."
    "The WRX trunk, however, is eminently usable and has a wide opening. But the trunk lid sounds a bit tinny when you close the trunk, and I noticed on the test car that the remote keyless entry didn’t include a button for opening the trunk. ..."
    "Subaru said it looks for sales of 10,000 WRX models annually. Buyers are expected to be mostly men, with professional jobs who are ‘‘outdoor active and culturally involved. ...’’
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    and I'm sorry you were let down with the chat. Please remember, that this was a whole new forum for us. Mike was doing this remote (he was in Detroit at the auto show) and he had to feed his responses verbally and wait for them to be typed in. I think Dana did a great job at trying to stay on top of things.

    Also, try to keep in mind that we are seeking improvements and additions (4 pot brakes). We are trying to get the car out there. Then, we can move ahead. STi can be brought in, but there is no sense in holding up the car until negotiations get rolling. Also, demand will tell us a lot, along with forums like this one. Yes, Subaru does use focus groups, but we have also been listening to what folks like you say. So, as they say. . it ain't over 'til.....

    If Subaru does agree to do this again, I'm sure you will be pleased with the improvements. Little steps always work in the beginning.

    I've taken your questions from here (car weights, etc.) and I'll see if I can get some answers for you later today.

    See/chat with you later!

    Patti
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Clearly, a big part of the problem was the remote issue, as it took a looooong time for Q and A to post, which had nothing to do with Mike or SoA. Please do thank him for us, as I for one would liketo see this trend continue.

    FWIW, there is a huge thread on i-club clamoring for the HID cluster. :)

    Thanks again for your partcipation here, too!!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Thanks for posting here and thank Mike for making an effort. Hopefully in the future things will go better and SOA won't be so hard nosed about information. Hmm i-clubbers want HIDs... perhaps I'll have to contact some friends down under and just import them for them. Those kids always have tons of $ to spend :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan: on #3, teach them to drive stick! I taught my wife, and it was worth it.

    Autos are fine on regular cars, but this is a very unique performance machine. It would almost be sad for it's primary duty to be commuting in bumper-to-bumper traffic. What a waste!

    Bob: no moonroof is mentioned on the web page. But the tow rating did not include the trailer brake restriction - so they're listening.

    Ken: the bad news with the weight is that the 2003 Forester is likely to bulk up. The Legacy/Outback did in 2000, now the Impreza, ...

    It's a shame. The nimbleness of the Forester is the main reason I bought it. Hope it still handles.

    The HIDs even make the front end look better. The big question is cost - would you be willing to spend $500 (what Audi charges) for them? Perhaps it should be optional, to keep the base price low.

    FWIW, you can get the Hella H4+30 bulbs for $26 delivered. I think the Phillips bulbs are under $40 as well. So you'd get about half the benefit for less than 1/10th the cost.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well, not all of us can afford a summer car Juice :)

    $500? Hell yeah, when I am buying a new car over 48 or 60 months, what does $500 come out to? $10 a month?

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You are also talking to the person who just spent $300 on Hella 4000s for upgraded lighting on my trooper. High speed driving in the country @ night requires extremely good lighting, I'd put it up there right after Tires and Brakes in safety feature column. Cause if you can't see it, you can't avoid it.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think your Trooper plus a WRX sedan would be a pretty awesome fleet, if you ask me. How long is your loan?...

    Fair enough on the monthly, but looked at another way, with interest you'll end up paying $700 for lights. Sounds kind of high to me.

    I'd spend that kind of money on LASIK (I probably will, soon). If your night vision is that bad, you need it too!

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    On the Trooper payment. I'll likely keep the XT6 as long as I can. Then it will get replaced with either an SVX (if the Trooper isn't paid off yet) or a WRX or Legacy GT if the Trooper is paid off by then. I like to keep a sports car and the people/object/towing vehcile around. Of course in about 3 years I'll need to replace my boat, so that is another consideration! Mmmm tooo many toys!

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If the XT6 goes you ought to put that engine IN your boat!

    Don't laugh - they work like a charm in air craft.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The 17' boat has a 90hp Outboard, so that's not too good, also i'm expecting the engine or tranny to be the next thing to go on the XT6, in which case, i'll just dump the XT6.

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    ...what is the deal with UK registration plates????? Q means the car is modified, right? I got this in my email today:

    Y prefix registrations from DVLA
    From only £499 including VAT & assignment fee. Prefixes
    A,B,C,D,G,H,J,K,L,M,N,P,R,S,T,V,W,X and now Y are available with an
    incredible choice of number and letter combinations. We have millions of
    registrations available for sale direct to the public, visit our website to
    search for yours.
    http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;2250441;2890472;b?http://www.dvla-som.co.uk
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