Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

kyfdx · August 2020

breld said:

kyfdx said:

benjaminh said:

kyfdx said:
Vroom emailed me. Increased the offer on the GTI. Now, it’s $2000 more than I paid for it in February. 👀
Wow! Are you going to take it?
Not likely..
It’s gotta be a little tempting, but then what do you replace it with? And that choice will likely be similarly overpriced, so you don’t really gain anything.

The only way I would do it, is if I thought I could live with the Fit as my daily driver, and then a used Cayman for the garage. hmmmm..

ab348 · August 2020

explorerx4 said:
Fusion had a black package available for a few years.
Maybe kind of regional?

After I got home I was curious enough to go to Ford Canada's website. It turns out that up here at least the only Fusion shown on there as available to "build" was the SE model, so more premium trims were discontinued earlier. The SE only was available with the 1.5 Turbo engine and very limited options. There was an option package choice that gave you a leather wrapped steering wheel and a few other cosmetic things, that included the black wheels, so all of these had that.

suydam · August 2020

benjaminh said:
Car and Driver says that Tesla is stretching the truth by gaming the badly flawed EPA system.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a33824052/adjustment-factor-tesla-uses-for-big-epa-range-numbers/

"....our own 75-mph highway testing shows Teslas, on average, miss their label range by 27 percent, while all other EVs have missed the mark by 22 percent. Given that—and recent fuel-economy and emissions scandals at Ford, Hyundai-Kia, and Volkswagen—we couldn't just take Tesla at its word."

What this means is that the standard Tesla Model 3 with a supposed range of "250 miles" can't actually get anywhere close to that on the highway, with the real world number on the highway with a full charge more like 190. And that 190 would be running it till it's dead, which makes the actual range, leaving the same charge as about a gallon left in the tank of an ICE vehicle, more like 170. And charging your battery more than 95% reduces the battery's lifespan, actually damaging a key part of your vehicle, which means that that the true bottom-line highway range of a Model 3 with an 85% charge would be more like 150 miles. That's more than enough for around town and short trips, but for a long road trip that's inconvenient to be going to a Supercharger every 2 hours for a 30-minute charge-up to 85%.

What this means to me is that I'm not willing to do that to own a Tesla, and will instead likely buy out my TLX, which has a real-world highway range of 575 miles (36 mpg x 16 gallons) with a gallon still in reserve in the 17.2 gallon tank.

I doubt you had serious thoughts about buying one anyway.

ab348 · August 2020

explorerx4 said:
Did some lot browsing today.
Some of what I looked at.

2020 F-150 King Ranch
https://www.familyfordinc.net/new/Ford/2020-Ford-F-150-bce052b80a0e0ae752b0f28dea716080.htm?searchDepth=1:29

Man, if you're considering something as expensive as a King Ranch, might as well go all the way and get a Raptor.

nyccarguy · August 2020

@suydam - where in CT are your kids moving to?

explorerx4 · August 2020

@ab348,
KR and Raptor are very different.

graphicguy · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
must still be a supply shortage coming out of the auctions.
There’s a guy on YouTube called We Hustle Daily who haunts the auctions for cheap flip cars. He sometimes shows the cars going through the line bringing high prices for high milage (150k or more). He’s based down near NYC I think and he got so frustrated he drove all the way up to Rome NY 250 miles away to look at a bunch of cheap hoopties in a field.

I’ve watched that guy a few times. And, he does indeed hustle if the amount of cars he reviews at auction are any indication.

He seems to make his bread and butter on old Tauri, Merc Sables, Malibus, Impalas, Fusions....pretty much run of the mill iron. Seems he knows the Corollas, Civics Accords, Camrys are going to bring strong auction money and stays away.

tjc78 · August 2020

explorerx4 said:
@ab348,
KR and Raptor are very different.

Yeah night and day. Actually a pretty good example of the wide spectrum of models/configurations that are available.

I for one wouldn’t want a Raptor but would go for a KR.

qbrozen · August 2020

benjaminh said:
Car and Driver says that Tesla is stretching the truth by gaming the badly flawed EPA system.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a33824052/adjustment-factor-tesla-uses-for-big-epa-range-numbers/

"....our own 75-mph highway testing shows Teslas, on average, miss their label range by 27 percent, while all other EVs have missed the mark by 22 percent. Given that—and recent fuel-economy and emissions scandals at Ford, Hyundai-Kia, and Volkswagen—we couldn't just take Tesla at its word."

What this means is that the standard Tesla Model 3 with a supposed range of "250 miles" can't actually get anywhere close to that on the highway, with the real world number on the highway with a full charge more like 190. And that 190 would be running it till it's dead, which makes the actual range, leaving the same charge as about a gallon left in the tank of an ICE vehicle, more like 170. And charging your battery more than 95% reduces the battery's lifespan, actually damaging a key part of your vehicle, which means that that the true bottom-line highway range of a Model 3 with an 85% charge would be more like 150 miles. That's more than enough for around town and short trips, but for a long road trip that's inconvenient to be going to a Supercharger every 2 hours for a 30-minute charge-up to 85%.

What this means to me is that I'm not willing to do that to own a Tesla, and will instead likely buy out my TLX, which has a real-world highway range of 575 miles (36 mpg x 16 gallons) with a gallon still in reserve in the 17.2 gallon tank.

First time I have heard of this. Every magazine review I have read claims the real-world range to be very very close to the claims.

qbrozen · August 2020

My bike is very very slowly making its way here. Shipped out 8/28 at noon from Dallas and made it to Memphis by 8pm. Since then, it spent 3 days traveling across Tennessee. From Memphis to Nashville, where it sat for a day and a half, then from Nashville to Johnson City this morning. It left Johnson City about a half hour ago.

stickguy · August 2020

What, is somebody riding it to NJ?

benjaminh · August 2020

suydam said:

I doubt you had serious thoughts about buying one anyway.

I have been thinking about it, but every time I look at the details I find something like this, or the quality control issues, or the service issues. I still hope to get a Tesla or some other EV someday, but maybe in c. 4 years or so when these things have been fixed. The new battery tech Tesla is revealing in a few weeks might start solving the range issue, for instance.

stickguy · August 2020

I would not mind a plug in hybrid. Like a volt. That would work well for me. But I know I’ll never be a candidate for a pure EV.

nyccarguy · August 2020

stickguy said:
I would not mind a plug in hybrid. Like a volt. That would work well for me. But I know I’ll never be a candidate for a pure EV.

Speaking of Plug In Hybrids, my friend that owns the Deli that has slowly been replacing his fleet of Honda Fits with Toyota Prius (Prii? Priuses?). The 1st Prius he bought has over 50,000 miles on it and hasn't even had a birthday yet. Another Fit started to have some issues and he traded it in for a Prius Prime Plug In Hybrid (and bought himself a used Raptor at the same time). With no significant difference in his electric bill (and we have very high rates in CT), the Fit used $310.60 in gas during its last month of service. The Prius Prime used $159.81 in gas during its 1st month of service. Gas prices were similar, amount of deliveries & miles driven are similar.

ab348 · August 2020

tjc78 said:

explorerx4 said:
@ab348,
KR and Raptor are very different.
Yeah night and day. Actually a pretty good example of the wide spectrum of models/configurations that are available.

I for one wouldn’t want a Raptor but would go for a KR.

Oh, I am well aware of the differences. To me the Raptor seems like fun. The blingy higher-end Ford pickups like the KR, Limited and Platinum turn me off with their over-the-top exterior chrome trim. It is like they are trying to emulate a '50s Cadillac.

qbrozen · August 2020

Raptor is old news. Ya needs a Hellcat-powered Ram.

qbrozen · August 2020

stickguy said:
I would not mind a plug in hybrid. Like a volt. That would work well for me. But I know I’ll never be a candidate for a pure EV.

I don't see why a range extender should not be a part of every electric car. Why limit the audience even further?

fintail · August 2020

Also getting rare to find nice early ovoid models - that's one of the earliest ones with the weird upholstery that resembles a skin rash.

I see he just picked up a clean 66 Fury II that he claims to like more than the Coronet.

oldfarmer50 said:

That Taurus is my kind of car, low mileage for a 24 year old car, no rust and best of all...cheap.

nyccarguy · August 2020

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:
I would not mind a plug in hybrid. Like a volt. That would work well for me. But I know I’ll never be a candidate for a pure EV.
I don't see why a range extender should not be a part of every electric car. Why limit the audience even further?

Excellent idea!

explorerx4 · August 2020

The guy I know that had the Bolt said mileage would drop at least 40% in the winter, despite closely managing the heat.

suydam · August 2020

nyccarguy said:
@suydam - where in CT are your kids moving to?

They already live there, in the New Haven area. They’ve been renting for the last 2 years and saving up.
Apparently having leased solar panels on your house is a liability if you need to sell. If you bought them outright, it’s a plus. Lots of people are leery of taking over a lease they didn’t sign on to, and buying out the lease is a lot of cash upfront when you’re already trying to negotiate closing costs and a mortgage.

tjc78 · August 2020

ab348 said:

tjc78 said:

explorerx4 said:
@ab348,
KR and Raptor are very different.
Yeah night and day. Actually a pretty good example of the wide spectrum of models/configurations that are available.

I for one wouldn’t want a Raptor but would go for a KR.
Oh, I am well aware of the differences. To me the Raptor seems like fun. The blingy higher-end Ford pickups like the KR, Limited and Platinum turn me off with their over-the-top exterior chrome trim. It is like they are trying to emulate a '50s Cadillac.

They are blingy for sure! I don’t mind it, the Sierra SLT I like has a good bit of chrome too.

The Raptor is just to off-road looking for me. I also think the wheels are too small but understand why.

stickguy · August 2020

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:
I would not mind a plug in hybrid. Like a volt. That would work well for me. But I know I’ll never be a candidate for a pure EV.
I don't see why a range extender should not be a part of every electric car. Why limit the audience even further?

Costs more, weighs more, and upsets the purist cult.

nyccarguy · August 2020

suydam said:

nyccarguy said:
@suydam - where in CT are your kids moving to?
They already live there, in the New Haven area. They’ve been renting for the last 2 years and saving up.
Apparently having leased solar panels on your house is a liability if you need to sell. If you bought them outright, it’s a plus. Lots of people are leery of taking over a lease they didn’t sign on to, and buying out the lease is a lot of cash upfront when you’re already trying to negotiate closing costs and a mortgage.

Interesting to see how this pans out. I leased my solar panels. From what I understand, the homeowner is responsible for the entire contract of the lease. I believe you can get them to transfer the lease (just like a car) for a fee, then the new homeowner will be responsible for the rest of the lease.

Have them call up sunrun and see if they can get the information.

qbrozen · August 2020

stickguy said:

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:
I would not mind a plug in hybrid. Like a volt. That would work well for me. But I know I’ll never be a candidate for a pure EV.
I don't see why a range extender should not be a part of every electric car. Why limit the audience even further?
Costs more, weighs more, and upsets the purist cult.

Not sure how much weight difference we are REALLY talking about. With the range extender, they could lessen the battery range (fewer batteries), and something like a 3-cyl 1.0L weighs (at least Ford's) 220 lb. No different than having another large adult in the car. OK, so add a fuel tank, let's say 5 gallons? And now it is maybe 300 lb all-in, including the generator/converter. I believe, upon a quick look, the Model 3 has 1050 lb of batteries for 270 miles of range. Let's cut that to 180 miles and trim 340 lb. Now, overall, I've got a car a few lb lighter and with longer range. The purists don't have to use the engine. Nobody is forcing them to. Or, a la the i3, make it an option.

suydam · August 2020

nyccarguy said:

suydam said:

nyccarguy said:
@suydam - where in CT are your kids moving to?
They already live there, in the New Haven area. They’ve been renting for the last 2 years and saving up.
Apparently having leased solar panels on your house is a liability if you need to sell. If you bought them outright, it’s a plus. Lots of people are leery of taking over a lease they didn’t sign on to, and buying out the lease is a lot of cash upfront when you’re already trying to negotiate closing costs and a mortgage.
Interesting to see how this pans out. I leased my solar panels. From what I understand, the homeowner is responsible for the entire contract of the lease. I believe you can get them to transfer the lease (just like a car) for a fee, then the new homeowner will be responsible for the rest of the lease.

Have them call up sunrun and see if they can get the information.

Their choice is to assume the lease, or to buy it outright.

stickguy · August 2020

or tell the seller to take them off and cancel the lease. Which is the same as saying, sell the house to someone else.

xwesx · August 2020

qbrozen said:
My bike is very very slowly making its way here. Shipped out 8/28 at noon from Dallas and made it to Memphis by 8pm. Since then, it spent 3 days traveling across Tennessee. From Memphis to Nashville, where it sat for a day and a half, then from Nashville to Johnson City this morning. It left Johnson City about a half hour ago.

You're not excited to get this toy, are you?

xwesx · August 2020

suydam said:
Their choice is to assume the lease, or to buy it outright.

If they would consider the buyout, seems to me like something they can roll into the mortgage. It is fixed equipment, which means it is part of the infrastructure. Unless the leasing company has some sort of unreasonable buyout structure baked into the lease, doing the buyout and paying it via the mortgage shouldn't cost them much (if any) more from a payment perspective, plus it simplifies their payment structure.

kyfdx · August 2020

xwesx said:

suydam said:
Their choice is to assume the lease, or to buy it outright.
If they would consider the buyout, seems to me like something they can roll into the mortgage. It is fixed equipment, which means it is part of the infrastructure. Unless the leasing company has some sort of unreasonable buyout structure baked into the lease, doing the buyout and paying it via the mortgage shouldn't cost them much (if any) more from a payment perspective, plus it simplifies their payment structure.

You'd have to worry about the appraisal. (regarding the mortgage) I'll guess the solar array wouldn't add much value to an appraiser.

xwesx · August 2020

kyfdx said:
You'd have to worry about the appraisal. (regarding the mortgage) I'll guess the solar array wouldn't add much value to an appraiser.

The appraisal process is so corrupt. Just tell them how much you need them to appraise it at and they will come back where you need it. As long as the appraiser is getting paid, they don't give a darn.

kyfdx · August 2020

xwesx said:

kyfdx said:
You'd have to worry about the appraisal. (regarding the mortgage) I'll guess the solar array wouldn't add much value to an appraiser.
The appraisal process is so corrupt. Just tell them how much you need them to appraise it at and they will come back where you need it. As long as the appraiser is getting paid, they don't give a darn.

Not where I live

qbrozen · August 2020

xwesx said:

qbrozen said:
My bike is very very slowly making its way here. Shipped out 8/28 at noon from Dallas and made it to Memphis by 8pm. Since then, it spent 3 days traveling across Tennessee. From Memphis to Nashville, where it sat for a day and a half, then from Nashville to Johnson City this morning. It left Johnson City about a half hour ago.
You're not excited to get this toy, are you?

who me? ;b

breld · August 2020

xwesx said:

kyfdx said:
You'd have to worry about the appraisal. (regarding the mortgage) I'll guess the solar array wouldn't add much value to an appraiser.
The appraisal process is so corrupt. Just tell them how much you need them to appraise it at and they will come back where you need it. As long as the appraiser is getting paid, they don't give a darn.

Depends on who's asking. The builders don't seem to have any issue getting appraisals to support their selling price. Private sellers? Not always.

So yes, I agree the process is suspect to say the least.

Years ago, when we were building a new home the appraisal came back right around the selling price. When I reviewed it, I saw that the appraisal reflected significant upgrades that we hadn't selected, like upgraded flooring throughout the main floor (we did the basics and then went back and did the upgrades ourselves). I spoke with the builder and the appraiser, and tried to make the point that surely there must be some downward adjustment of the value if the appraisal assumed upgraded flooring. They admitted the error but claimed it didn't make any difference.

suydam · August 2020

It won’t appraise with the extra buyout $ so it will be cash upfront for them.

benjaminh · August 2020

qbrozen said:

First time I have heard of this. Every magazine review I have read claims the real-world range to be very very close to the claims.

Alex on Autos got 192 miles on a Model 3 about a year ago. I think he was going an average of about 70 mph compared to the 75 mph of C & D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynX21N4H8H0

benjaminh · August 2020

On the Model Y rated by Tesla at 316 miles Alex on Autos got a 225 mile real world range....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9D55YZE86Q

stickguy · August 2020

also need to know, are they trying to maximize range *hypermiling) or just hammering along like normal people drive?

corvette · August 2020

The problem is that it’s supposed to be a single person’s opinion of value. Many people have believed for a long time that the appraisal process would be better if it were done “blind,” so that the appraiser doesn’t know the contract price. But that would invite all kinds of hurt egos when the appraisal comes back tens of thousands of dollars off (in either direction). I also think it might be more fair if the final number was a range instead of a single dubious “value.”

stickguy · August 2020

plus, the appraisal (as you note) is an estimate at a point in time. A contract offer is a "real" value. So it becomes up to the lender to decide if they are comfortable with a particular loan, regardless of the appraisal.

We just had one done last week for our Refi (I was shocked, the guy came over, measured inside and out, looked at every room and even closets, and took pictures of it all). The wife asked if the bank will tell us what it came out to be (I assume yes) but told her it really doesn't matter since we are looking at an LTV of only about 1/3.

I am curious though because prices in this area are exploding. At least my neighborhood. A house closed last week that was listed at what I thought was a too high price, and it went quick for $30K over that, a flip that looks like crap in under contract, and another one just listed at a record listing price that is getting lots of attention (turns out, they listed for what the other house just closed at!)

so depending on how current the appraiser gets, it could easily come back behind the market. I have no idea how it is working with the new ceiling setters, but I guess it doesn't matter if you put enough cash down!

xwesx · August 2020

Yeah, I guess if people are willing to pay it. In this case, though, the idea is to make something affordable by deferring the cost over a longer timeline. As it is a value-add item, seems odd that a lender wouldn't see it that way. New appliances are a selling point, but not solar panels.

stickguy · August 2020

I got tired of watching videos on how to tear down and rebuild a Subaru engine (I actually have that down pat!) and found these guys. He is hysterical. Only problem is a lot of the episodes are long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8WUeugOnY0

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:
Fusion had a black package available for a few years.
Maybe kind of regional?
After I got home I was curious enough to go to Ford Canada's website. It turns out that up here at least the only Fusion shown on there as available to "build" was the SE model, so more premium trims were discontinued earlier. The SE only was available with the 1.5 Turbo engine and very limited options. There was an option package choice that gave you a leather wrapped steering wheel and a few other cosmetic things, that included the black wheels, so all of these had that.

Probably optioned out to be a rental car like the a Taurus was in 2008 when they had discontinued the model but made them for the rental fleets.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
must still be a supply shortage coming out of the auctions.
There’s a guy on YouTube called We Hustle Daily who haunts the auctions for cheap flip cars. He sometimes shows the cars going through the line bringing high prices for high milage (150k or more). He’s based down near NYC I think and he got so frustrated he drove all the way up to Rome NY 250 miles away to look at a bunch of cheap hoopties in a field.
I’ve watched that guy a few times. And, he does indeed hustle if the amount of cars he reviews at auction are any indication.

He seems to make his bread and butter on old Tauri, Merc Sables, Malibus, Impalas, Fusions....pretty much run of the mill iron. Seems he knows the Corollas, Civics Accords, Camrys are going to bring strong auction money and stays away.

In one of his videos he revealed the darker side of the auction industry. He showed how his competitors will sometimes sabotage a car by pulling off a wire or sensor to make it run rough. Scares off other bidders.

omarman · August 2020

"Warning. I am an idiot..."
And if only that sort of humor and self awareness was expressed from sports, pols and hollywood mavens then I probably wouldn't spend so much time watching youtube now.

corvette · August 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
must still be a supply shortage coming out of the auctions.
There’s a guy on YouTube called We Hustle Daily who haunts the auctions for cheap flip cars. He sometimes shows the cars going through the line bringing high prices for high milage (150k or more). He’s based down near NYC I think and he got so frustrated he drove all the way up to Rome NY 250 miles away to look at a bunch of cheap hoopties in a field.
I’ve watched that guy a few times. And, he does indeed hustle if the amount of cars he reviews at auction are any indication.

He seems to make his bread and butter on old Tauri, Merc Sables, Malibus, Impalas, Fusions....pretty much run of the mill iron. Seems he knows the Corollas, Civics Accords, Camrys are going to bring strong auction money and stays away.
In one of his videos he revealed the darker side of the auction industry. He showed how his competitors will sometimes sabotage a car by pulling off a wire or sensor to make it run rough. Scares off other bidders.

That's been going on for decades...

I'm liking Big Al's Bike & Auto, so thanks to whomever recommended it.

oldfarmer50 · August 2020

suydam said:

nyccarguy said:
@suydam - where in CT are your kids moving to?
They already live there, in the New Haven area. They’ve been renting for the last 2 years and saving up.
Apparently having leased solar panels on your house is a liability if you need to sell. If you bought them outright, it’s a plus. Lots of people are leery of taking over a lease they didn’t sign on to, and buying out the lease is a lot of cash upfront when you’re already trying to negotiate closing costs and a mortgage.

One more thought. Make sure the solar panels are in the correct orientation for maximum functionality. Around me I see solar panels installed on every imaginable roof; south, east, west and even north. That must have been one effective salesperson. Few houses have the roof facing the proper southern exposure to be effective. When we set the pins for our foundation I used a compass. Couldn’t afford the low efficiency panels back then but when Elon Musk invents those panels that look like shingles, I’m all ready.

Michaell · August 2020

stickguy said:
plus, the appraisal (as you note) is an estimate at a point in time. A contract offer is a "real" value. So it becomes up to the lender to decide if they are comfortable with a particular loan, regardless of the appraisal.

We just had one done last week for our Refi (I was shocked, the guy came over, measured inside and out, looked at every room and even closets, and took pictures of it all). The wife asked if the bank will tell us what it came out to be (I assume yes) but told her it really doesn't matter since we are looking at an LTV of only about 1/3.

I am curious though because prices in this area are exploding. At least my neighborhood. A house closed last week that was listed at what I thought was a too high price, and it went quick for $30K over that, a flip that looks like crap in under contract, and another one just listed at a record listing price that is getting lots of attention (turns out, they listed for what the other house just closed at!)

so depending on how current the appraiser gets, it could easily come back behind the market. I have no idea how it is working with the new ceiling setters, but I guess it doesn't matter if you put enough cash down!

Stick, I know you are in South Jersey, but I read an article in the NYT about all the folks who live in the 5 boroughs who are moving to the suburbs (NJ, CT, LI, Westchester County) and driving prices way up.

You might be seeing some of that in your area, as well, as most folks are likely not to have to go into an office any more.

stickguy · August 2020

yeah, that is part of it. We would be getting people coming out of Philly. Seems odd to me right now to have such a hot market. Super low mortgage rates are probably helping fuel it too.

My guess is, a lot of people are staying put too, so the normal turnover isn't there, which is also keeping supply down. I look at Realtor.com daily (for a few areas) and noticed a few months ago inventory was drastically reduced.

stickguy · August 2020

Today's family discussion (kids are troublemakers too!) lead to looking at listings back up in Vermont (we really enjoyed our visit last week). Actually found a house I really liked in Bennington. Tempting to call the realtor and tell them to bring over the suckers that fell short in the other neighborhood bidding war (our house is nicer than the other ones) and if someone wants to make an offer we can't refuse, take the money, order up a couple of pods, and run!

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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