Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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Comments

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I've only heard of one person auto-crossing their Forester. Can't remember if it was here or on i-club, but there was a picture posted a long time ago.

    Ken
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I realised later that you were joking I am not usually so slow, but I was dog tired last night, so I have an excuse.

    Cheers Pat.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    How do you know it is Friday?

    Very few posts in any of the topics any other day is a struggle to keep up.

    Most of the regular posters must work compressed work weeks.

    Cheers Pat.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Here's a bit more on that ugly rumor Patti informed us on a few weeks ago.

    Bob

    http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=37471&dm=yes
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I was driving down the road yesterday, when this little sedan passed me. At first glance it looked like a last-generation Honda Civic—but not quite. I sped up to get a better look and discovered it was an Acura 1.6 EL. This was a new one on me; I've never heard of that model before. I looked again, and it had Canadian tags.

    Apparently Acura sells (or sold) this model in Canada exclusively. It is NOT an Integra, but was listed only as "1.6 EL."

    Curiosity got the best of me, so I looked it up on the web, and sure enough, there it is. It clearly is a Civic, that was given the "Acura treatment." Here's a link on it:

    http://www.fsa.ulaval.ca/personnel/paradisj/acura1.6el/

    Bob
  • cautiouswpcautiouswp Member Posts: 9
    I heard an ad on the radio today (WBZ Boston) regarding a Dealer Incentive program by the New England distributor. I've tried newenglandsubaru.com but there is no mention of the program. Does anyone know the details????

    By the way, MA and RI dealers have been advertising BASE Outbacks for $20,700 lately.

    I would appreciate any information you may have.
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Thanks, Bob.

    If this isn't too OT, I wonder how you feel about the issue that keeps popping up on Edmunds boards about where cars are built. A lot of guys figure a car built in Japan is going to be better than one built anywhere else. To my mind, it seems that geography isn't the issue; intelligent plant design and proper management are the issue. I'd have full confidence in a plant in Indiana or anywhere else if it were run properly.

    What are your thoughts?
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    storyteller,

    head into a subaru dealer and closely examine the body panel gaps on an Impreza or Forester. check several if you'd like.

    now do the same to a Legacy or Outback.

    let me know the results.

    -Colin
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    my japan made 92 legacy LS wagon had more trouble than my 92 Indiana made legacy L sedan - maybe it was the trans pacific trip which did it! :-)
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    In a survey in the local paper Friday the top two Japanese cars with 12 faults per one hundred Subaru and Toyota.

    Honda and Nissan were next with 14 faults per one hundred.

    Cheers Pat.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Yeah Bob you are right it is a Civic with the Acura treatment however the biggest advantage was the Acura got the Civic SI 125 HP engine.

    The biggest engine in the Civic line is I believe 106 HP.

    THere are also 3 trim lines.standard, sport, and premium, the latter getting power roof and leather as well as some other goodies.

    Incidently our Civic SI two door coupe is known as the EX in the states.

    Cheers Pat.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    On average, a Japanese worker may be more conscientious/dedicated than an American worker but he isn't super-human. He can and does make mistakes. I agree with Storyteller, producing a quality product has more to do with management philosophy than anything else. A well run US plant with a motivated work force can turn-out a product with quality second to none.

    -Frank P.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    The Civic Si coupe w/160hp 1999 - 2000.

    Stephen
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    That was known as the SI.R in Canada, also with 160Hp.

    Your Civic EX coupe is known in Canada as the SI. coupe, beats me why they have different names for the States and Canada makes it confusing.

    They used to do the same thing with the Accord but I think the badging is now the same for both sides of the border.

    Cheers Pat.
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Link to an interesting article on CR quality ratings. Subaru looks great.


    http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0203/13/b03-439093.htm

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I agree with those who feel it's the management, not the location. I had a rodeo out of SIA in '97 went 120K miles of beater miles with the only maintenance being: Oil Changes, 2 sets of brake pads, 1 set of tires.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    It is both.

    No matter how well they are managed, VW/Audi will never produce their best cars from Mexico. Subaru's Indiana plant no doubt turns out a better assembled car than GM, but it isn't as good as ones built in Gunma.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well Sat we had an install-fest at my place. Did a lot of stuff on a lot of cars (4 sets of bushings, tranny mounts, a downpipe, springs all kinds of stuff)


    For the XT6 we swapped over the suspension from the AT to the MT, and put on my WRX rims and tires. Also Paul Eklund sent my clutch on sat so hopefully the 6-puck, w/upgraded pressure plate will be in soon.


    Pics at:

    http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/installfest3-02/index.htm


    -mike

  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Does that mean that a Japanese will do your job better than you do? If it holds true for autos, it will also translate to all other jobs.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    if I were an assembly worker in a factory, that might be true, sure.

    -Colin
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Colin- I think you've bought into the invincible Japanese manufacturing myth a little too much. Sure, on avg, a Japanese "brand" car will have fewer defects than one from Detroit but to say "never" is going a little overboard. Japanese car companies (and their customers) have a lower tolerance for defects than their American counterparts. But Honda, Toyota and Subaru go to great efforts to ensure that their US manufacturing operations meet those same rigorous standards.

    Good point Chuck.

    -Frank P.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The camary and the malibu come from the same plant, but the camary is far more reliable than the malibu.

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Too bad the same doesn't hold true for the Mazda Tribute, which along with its Ford twin the Escape are both equally unreliable. Did you see that link that Bob posted?

    "Ford Motor Co., which had its first annual financial loss in nine years in 2001, and its Japanese affiliate Mazda Motor Co. were the lowest-ranked automakers in Consumer Reports magazine's annual subscriber survey.'

    -Frank P.

    P.S. mike- wipe that "I told you so" smile off your face. :-)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They do it on their own.

    Truth be told :)

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Ok, I have two Subes (well, one's really my wife's ;-) ). One built in Gunma (OBS) and one built in Lafayette (OB). They've both been similar in terms of issues. The OBS had major tranny problems and the OB had a crankshaft leak.

    Ironically, my wife's 95 Rodeo had less problems than either of our current cars. Only a loose hatch latch and a dead battery in 4 years.

    -Dennis
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Is wrong, no matter what the subject. Colin, every area of the US gets the bulk of it's workers from the same source, the US populace. There are just as many dedicated workers in the auto business as there is in any other business.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    image


    image

    image


    -mike

  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    you can drive a Trooper through the panel gaps in my 2 Legacys. :)
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    since you both are so busy vilifying me I'll just bow out of this discussion about auto workers.

    -Colin
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Hey, what's happened to our other illustrious Subaru Crew host? I hope they haven't locked Mike S. up in the SOA dungeon for some nefarious misdeed.

    -Frank P.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Colin- No one's vilifying anyone. Just trying to point out that blanket statements are rarely true.

    -Frank P.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Not trying to vilify anyone, just putting forth my opinion.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    mike - The *new* XT looks great!

    -Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I've found that Japanese companies generally have higher quality/reliability of cars, no matter where they are built. Maybe it is the tolerances used and/or design? I think that @ the GM/Toyota plant in the US they build Malibus on Monday and Friday and Camarys on T, W, Th. :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It does look great. Looks (is) newer than your other one. Rims match it perfectly.

    Gunma-made Subies have scored slightly higher in reliability, per CR. Same with the Japan-built ES300, which scored better than its Camry clone built in the US. And again with the Japanese Trooper, vs. the SIA Rodeo. And these are all the same company, different sites.

    This may have to do with how close headquarters is, geographically, to the plant where they are produced. Perhaps they are more closely supervised?

    Pat: they canned compressed work week here at work, major bummer!

    Another buddy picked up a Subie! My best man lives in Atlanta, and we coached him in his purchase. He ended up with an LL Bean, a left over 2001. We think he paid under $26k, so it seems like a great deal.

    Finally saw that ranking which put Subaru on top, not bad. So new Hondas have 2 more problems per car, buy one at your own risk! LOL

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    While there will always be sample-to-sample variances in build quality, I think juice's data does highlight the fact that the quality of some product lines within certain car manufacturers do show a geographic dependence.

    I don't these differences have anything to do with the quality of the workers but rather the way they are trained and managed. My theory is that all management practices have a cultural spin to them -- after all, we're talking about interpersonal dynamics. A management style that's been optimized in Japan isn't always going to perfectly fit the culture of other countries. The same applies for an American management style applied overseas. There needs to be localization. However, through localization you change enough nuances in the mamangement process that does affect the outcome -- in this case car build quality.

    I'll bet that the SIA plant has adopted most of, but not all of the processes followed in the Gunma plant. However, I'll bet that as long as the US market demands the same level of quality as the JDM, we'll see any differences in end product disappear in the long run.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My spin on it?

    The "import" plants in the US use different suppliers than the plants in Japan, suppliers that may have been making parts for lower quality manufacturers, and now make parts for Subaru (or whoever).

    It's up to Subaru, then, to make sure the parts meet their quality standard, because they are different.

    Specifically, Subaru will no doubt buy more and more GM parts, or parts from their former subsidiaries, anyway. Will they be able to make those suppliers meet their higher quality standards? We'll see.

    Subaru is in a funny position, because they have much higher quality/reliability numbers than their parent company. Will GM dumb them down, to cut costs? That would be a travesty, but it's possible.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I have logged time on manufacturing lines in both Japan and Korea on a number of overseas visits to our component suppliers, as well as throughout America. The working environments are very different overseas.

    We Americans very much want to be treated as individuals and contributors. And while that is laudable in many tasks, it can be a detractor in manufacturing. To better appreciate the Asian worker, think military. Manufacturing is all about 100% uniformity and compliance. Machine-like precision, every minute.

    Japanese schools teach hierarchical living and obedience. A popular saying is 'the nail that sticks up is pounded down'. By comparison, we teach kids to question and offer opinions. My Japanese students always marvel about their US classroom experience - the teacher actually wants to hear what they think!!!

    It is not that Asian products will be inherently better or worse. That depends very much on the integrity of the design, ease of assembly, quality of incoming materials, proficiency of machinery workers use, work schedules, etc.

    It is indeed a very complex issue.....

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Mike: I know that the Corolla and Nova/Prism share the California NUMMI plant, but didn't know that the Camry / Malibou shared mfg facilities. Where?

    I owned a Corolla built in Japan and a Nova from NUMMI. The Corolla was infinitly better put together, but it is an unfair comparison as they were different year/generation vehicles.

    I have to admit, while very uniformly assembled, the seam gaps are huge on my '02 OB. I noticed that when I first saw it on the dealers lot. But they are all that way, so I blame the stamping and assembly jigs, and not the workers.

    Steve
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Steve,

    My point exactly. You take a manufacturing process that has been optimized for Japan, you're bound to get some "fit" issues if you try and apply it directly in the US.

    Again, it's not the workers but the way they are managed. This example is makes a great case study in international business.

    Ken
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The GM/Toyota plant the shoots out Camarys and Malibus is in Marysville, OH? Not positive on the location but somewhere in that area.

    -mike
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Marysville Ohio is the Accord plant for Honda.
    Georgtown KY is the Camry plant.
    Princeton IN is the Toyota truck plant.
    Tennessee has the Nissan plant.
    Illinois has the Diamnond star motors plant.
    SIA is Laffeyette IN.
    I know my Midwest Japanese factories!
    TWRX
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Ken,

    Actually it is the workers. You cannot take away the sum of their lives up to the point they begin employment in the auto factory, and ultimately the way that life has been led will have an impact on how effective a given management philosophy is.

    Deming was laughed out of the US after inventing kaizan because US business didn't need it (at the time) and US management didn't understand it. Now they see the value in it, but the employees trying to adopt it don't understand either. They can learn, but for a culture that's been emphasizing the team/family/company over the individual since birth things won't be the same.

    And this is just the Japanese. The Germans have their own culture that affects their workmanship, professional vocational training that starts at the high school age, etc. But nevermind that, I've just bought into the Japanese myth and am stereotyping. ;-)

    -Colin
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    It must be Monday again the posts are in high volume again, LOL.

    Cheers Pat.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just did a search and it doesn't appear that they produce the camary and malibu at the same plant. Thought I read it years ago but must have been wrong.

    -mike
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    After what snow we have had is all gone, and spring is in the air, we have just 10 centimetres dumped on us thats I think about 6 inchs.

    Cheers Pat.
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I have to keep this short. The people of Vancouver seem to be experiencing a mass hallucination - They think that it is snowing. Most seem to believe that about 1-2 inches has fallen and that it is continuing as I write. We all know that this is impossible at this time of year so I will be too busy to write for the next day or so. If you want to help the "Vancouver Snow Hallucination Relief Fund", send your checks payable to Ross and I'll make sure they get the money.

    Ross
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it was in the low 80s. This morning it was in the mid 30s. It's been a miserable winter. Hardly any snow and the worst drought in 40 years.

    Bob
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