Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

jmonroe1 · February 2021

abacomike said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...
Yep some of us like to live on the edge. I decided not to use the snow blower on my driveway about a month age when we had about 8 inches of snow. I don’t drive the rear wheel drive Genny when there is a chance that I’d have to live with the consequences of salt so it stays put in the garage. Mrs. j’s Subie was made for snow so I use it. It plowed through that 8 inches with no problem so I haven’t touched the 3 inches that is there now. About an hour ago Mrs. j asked if I was going to remove that measly amount because we could get 5 or 6 inches by tomorrow morning. I told her I’d let her snow plow take care of that. Her response was “what’s wrong with your precious car. Is it afraid of snow”? I paused then said, “yeah, what’s it to ya”? That almost earned me a lap or two around the table.

Sometimes a guy has to suck it up and live on the edge. Regardless of the outcome.

jmonroe
Snowblowers, shovels, salt, etc. Just not part of my vocabulary. It’s been in the 80’s every day with more humidity than usual for this time of year. Been running the AC every day these past 7-10 days.

Who asked you? :@ :@

jmonroe

ab348 · February 2021

imidazol97 said:

ab348 said:

kyfdx said:

Except with the Mt Gox exchange fiasco. It all just went away..

Most people aren't going to physically own Bitcoin, on a protected hard drive. They are going to hold in an account at Robinhood or Coinbase, and never physically have it. Seems like both of those things are unsafe, compared to cash in a bank account.

I'd love to make money trading it, but I'm usually in at the wrong time on those things...
Then there's this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadriga_Fintech_Solutions
Did you pay for the case with bitcoin?

Sorry, you lost me there.

imidazol97 · February 2021

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...

Did you pay for the case with bitcoin or other cryptocurrency?

abacomike · February 2021

I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!

roadburner · February 2021

I get BOLOs on stolen cars because of my job. I got one Friday for a silver Camry with a dent in the rear bumper; I figured that narrowed it down to maybe 10,000 vehicles in the Louisville area alone.

qbrozen · February 2021

abacomike said:
I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!

Is there vibration when sitting still in neutral? Does it change if, while driving, she changes speeds, gears, shifts to neutral while coasting, turns left, turns right, etc?

qbrozen · February 2021

I’ll be honest, I KIND of invested in bitcoin about a month ago. Put some cash into an ETF that focuses on bitcoin. Made several trades in and out of it as prices fluctuated and made a few (real) bucks. Now been sitting on some that are negative but slowly crawling back up.

abacomike · February 2021

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:
I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!
Is there vibration when sitting still in neutral? Does it change if, while driving, she changes speeds, gears, shifts to neutral while coasting, turns left, turns right, etc?

Yes, it vibrates when sitting still - she said the seats shake - even her feet feel it on the floor.

oldfarmer50 · February 2021

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

qbrozen said:
Yes, I understand that we moved away from the gold standard a long time ago.

Who created these bitcoin things? What stops any schmoe from saying “I have a string of numbers I want you to buy from me”? Why isn’t the market saturated with them? What/where is the regulation?
There is a long complicated answer, but the short answer is the authentication and security provided by blockchain computing is how you can authenticate legitimate Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) against fraudulent ones. And the way the blockchain ledgers are distributed across their nodes, it’s nearly impossible to fake.
I was reading about it last night. Started making me wonder how to “mine” because it seems like it could be fairly lucrative.

STILL boggles my mind that this is determined to hold some kind of monetary value. On one hand, I could see it being traded like some kind of dorky work of art. On the other hand, that ain’t what they call it.

500 years ago they were doing it with tulip bulbs. Anything can be monetized and sold to the the next “greater fool”.

driver100 · February 2021

@abacomike You hit on the usual suspects, motor or transmission mounts.
There are some less likely culprits....doing a bit of research this guy said:
After some slight re-scaling of the airflow sensor the car was able to hit the target idle of 720. It was still a little rough for me though so I turned it up to 800rpm, and now it actually feels like a new car idling.
Remember, I don't know much, just trying to help. Could it be bad gasoline or water in the gas (real long shot...but might be gas flow related)? Agree about going to another dealer though.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/vibration-on-idle.11843/

oldfarmer50 · February 2021

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...

Don’t lie down before you wash all the salt off your car. If you don’t, it could transform into a hooptie before your very eyes.

oldfarmer50 · February 2021

abacomike said:
I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!

I’ve been hearing more stories about increasing problems with Hondas and even worse stories about customer service.

A friend at work bought a CPO 2019 CR-V loaner and has had multiple electronic problems since the get go. The service department gives him the run around and lies to him. For example they told him they replaced the radio but he found out the new one had the same serial number as the old.

imidazol97 · February 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:
I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!
I’ve been hearing more stories about increasing problems with Hondas and even worse stories about customer service.

A friend at work bought a CPO 2019 CR-V loaner and has had multiple electronic problems since the get go. The service department gives him the run around and lies to him. For example they told him they replaced the radio but he found out the new one had the same serial number as the old.

I thought these things only happened with GM products. I'm waiting for the criticisms of Honda to start like the masses did for GM.

cdnpinhead · February 2021

oldfarmer50 said:
Anything can be monetized and sold to the the next “greater fool”.

Yeah, and there's certainly no shortage. I'll refrain from listing recent examples.

abacomike · February 2021

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:
I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!
I’ve been hearing more stories about increasing problems with Hondas and even worse stories about customer service.

A friend at work bought a CPO 2019 CR-V loaner and has had multiple electronic problems since the get go. The service department gives him the run around and lies to him. For example they told him they replaced the radio but he found out the new one had the same serial number as the old.
I thought these things only happened with GM products. I'm waiting for the criticisms of Honda to start like the masses did for GM.

Don’t get your hopes up, Imid! 🤪😜

Honda products are usually (with an emphasis on “usually”) well engineered and produced with outstanding quality control and offer a nice array of SUV’s, coupes and sedans. However, in recent years there has been a downslide in their outstanding reputation. They have experienced a series of recalls which has tarnished their popularity in some circles.

cdnpinhead · February 2021

It;s nice to have "older" vehicles at times like this.

dino001 · February 2021

abacomike said:
Just got an email from TurboTax telling me my return was accepted by the IRS. Glad that’s over with! Nice refund - $2,800+.🤪😜🤓

American people thank you for your generous no-interest loan. Here is repayment.

dino001 · February 2021

qbrozen said:
Don’t get me started on bitcoin again. I will NEVER understand how it has any value.

I don’t either. Blockchain is a real thing, it has a potential of being next internet in terms of impact on the economy, but bitcoin looks to me like baseball cards or paintings. It has a value because others say it does.

qbrozen · February 2021

abacomike said:

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:
I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!
Is there vibration when sitting still in neutral? Does it change if, while driving, she changes speeds, gears, shifts to neutral while coasting, turns left, turns right, etc?
Yes, it vibrates when sitting still - she said the seats shake - even her feet feel it on the floor.

But is that with or without the car in gear?
If still does it in neutral, that rules out the transaxle, as well as anything else past the engine. If they have done the mounts, and no misfires showing, I’d have to suspect the harmonic balancer. Can’t claim to know anything about that engine, so I don’t know if it is internal or external on that one.

snakeweasel · February 2021

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:
@steine13 At least with paper currency the government more or less will stand behind it.
How is the government going to back it? With what are they backing it with? In other words if you take your paper money to the government to exchange it what would you get for it? The answer is nothing. Your paper money only has value to the extent that people have trust in it, just like bitcoins.
How much in bitcoins do you have?
How many U.S. Dollars do you have?
If you buy $100 worth of groceries will the store accept your bitcoins? Will they accept your U.S. Dollars?

#1. None.
#2. Not as much as I have in Bitcoins.
#3. They could if they want to.
#4. No law says they have to.

Bitcoins don't have a government devaluing it by printing out tons of it.

snakeweasel · February 2021

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...
Yep some of us like to live on the edge. I decided not to use the snow blower on my driveway about a month ago when we had about 8 inches of snow. I don’t drive the rear wheel drive Genny when there is a chance that I’d have to live with the consequences of salt so it stays put in the garage. Mrs. j’s Subie was made for snow so I use it. It plowed through that 8 inches with no problem so I haven’t touched the 3 inches that is there now. About an hour ago Mrs. j asked if I was going to remove that measly amount because we could get 5 or 6 inches by tomorrow morning. I told her I’d let her snow plow take care of that. Her response was “what’s wrong with your precious car. Is it afraid of snow”? I paused then said, “yeah, what’s it to ya”? That almost earned me a lap or two around the table.

Sometimes a guy has to suck it up and live on the edge. Regardless of the outcome.

jmonroe

Tip of the day, on snowy days you can change your RWD car to a FWD car fast and inexpensively simply by driving it in reverse.

abacomike · February 2021

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:
I got a call from my daughter Thursday regarding her 2020 Honda Civic that we bought in October when her 2010 Honda Accord's front axle broke. It seems that she has had the car back to the service department 3 times for significant vibrations and shaking when the car is in Park or Drive and stopped. She says the seats shake as does the gear selector.

She told me that they first told her there was nothing out of the ordinary about the shaking/vibration, so she had to take the car home. Next, they replaced the engine mounts and adjusted the idle. Finally, the third time, they re-adjusted the engine mounts and adjusted the idle in the car's computer - the service manager and zone manager stated to her that even though the car is vibrating and shaking a little more than a new Civic they took out of stock to compare with hers, it was not out of the ordinary. She told me that she told them she would be Lemon Lawing the car if the vibrations and shaking were not corrected. She told them when she bought the car and for the first three months of ownership, there was no shaking or vibration.

She called me for advice and I suggested that she take her car in to the Honda Dealership Service Department at the dealer about 5 miles further south of her dealership and have them look at the car and see what they have to say. This will give her 4 attempts to have the problem corrected. She has an appointment to bring the car to the Deerfield Beach dealership this coming week. It sounds to me like either the engine is not running properly and or the engine mounts are not helping to eliminate engine movement. Or the problem could be in the transaxle. Who knows, but she is very upset about it.

I told her I would be more than happy to go in with her since I was in the business, and help her with the service department and the service manager, but she said she would rather try to handle this hereself and that she would call me if she needs help.

Here we go - yet another saga with my daughter. God Bless Her!
Is there vibration when sitting still in neutral? Does it change if, while driving, she changes speeds, gears, shifts to neutral while coasting, turns left, turns right, etc?
Yes, it vibrates when sitting still - she said the seats shake - even her feet feel it on the floor.
But is that with or without the car in gear?
If still does it in neutral, that rules out the transaxle, as well as anything else past the engine. If they have done the mounts, and no misfires showing, I’d have to suspect the harmonic balancer. Can’t claim to know anything about that engine, so I don’t know if it is internal or external on that one.

It vibrates in P - Park or when in gear. I’ll probably have to go up to her tomorrow or Tuesday and sit in the car and find out what she’s talking about. If she can feel it in her feet when her foot is on the brake and her other foot is up against the firewall, I suspect the engine or transaxle.

I know it’s bad enough to cause her stress and anxiety.

stickguy · February 2021

just curious, but does it change anything if you turn the AC off?

stickguy · February 2021

I have seen that drag the idle down and make it shake a bit.

I assume it goes away if you put it in neutral?

driver100 · February 2021

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:
@steine13 At least with paper currency the government more or less will stand behind it.
How is the government going to back it? With what are they backing it with? In other words if you take your paper money to the government to exchange it what would you get for it? The answer is nothing. Your paper money only has value to the extent that people have trust in it, just like bitcoins.
How much in bitcoins do you have?
How many U.S. Dollars do you have?
If you buy $100 worth of groceries will the store accept your bitcoins? Will they accept your U.S. Dollars?
#1. None.
#2. Not as much as I have in Bitcoins.
#3. They could if they want to.
#4. No law says they have to.

Bitcoins don't have a government devaluing it by printing out tons of it.

1)Will the government accept your tax payment...in Bitcoins?
2)Will the government accept your tax payment...in U.S. dollars.

imidazol97 · February 2021

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

I’ve been hearing more stories about increasing problems with Hondas and even worse stories about customer service.

A friend at work bought a CPO 2019 CR-V loaner and has had multiple electronic problems since the get go. The service department gives him the run around and lies to him. For example they told him they replaced the radio but he found out the new one had the same serial number as the old.
I thought these things only happened with GM products. I'm waiting for the criticisms of Honda to start like the masses did for GM.

Don’t get your hopes up, Imid! 🤪😜

Honda products are usually (with an emphasis on “usually”) well engineered and produced with outstanding quality control and offer a nice array of SUV’s, coupes and sedans. However, in recent years there has been a downslide in their outstanding reputation. They have experienced a series of recalls which has tarnished their popularity in some circles.

There was no shortage of problems with the products earlier, but the umbra of populist opinion and lack of propagation of info shaped a positive image. I reading problems with blocks that were seeping oil and the response in certain forums was "Oh year, that's a known problem." Or the AC compressors blowing up on certain models: "Never happened," according to some. But I hear the talk show host on morning radio who later talked about how quickly his non-dealership service fixed the problems with his CRV for that AC compressor that blew up..., along with other problems. Over a couple of years as he advertised for a local chain that specializes in servicing foreign makes, he has talked about their handling things with his little SUV. It's been there. Just like all makes have their problems. They all put their wheels on 1 lug nut at a time (except at the factory where all 5 are tightened at once.)

Much of the image problem goes to the customer service at the servicing dealership. For years honda had an image of covering things even out of warranty. So customers were happy and would indicate they'd had no problems even when major repair had been done--because they didn't have to pay for it, it was of no consequence to the reputation.

With GM, well, coverage was a problem after warranty period. Sometimes dealerships could work out coverage in conjuction with the company, and sometimes not. Unhappy customers spreading the info.

Like politics, it's in the marketing and spread rather than the reality.

ab348 · February 2021

The link Mike posted earlier to the Honda forum dealing with the vibration problem seems to draw a correlation between the vibration and an overly low idle speed. The low idle is what the factory calls for but apparently is the source of the problem. They note that if the AC is turned on the computer increases the idle to compensate and the vibration goes away. If the computer is updated to make idle just slightly higher the vibration disappears. But that is not something the dealer apparently will do so it needs to be done at an indie shop with the proper gizmo.

ab348 · February 2021

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

Honda products are usually (with an emphasis on “usually”) well engineered and produced with outstanding quality control and offer a nice array of SUV’s, coupes and sedans. However, in recent years there has been a downslide in their outstanding reputation. They have experienced a series of recalls which has tarnished their popularity in some circles.
There was no shortage of problems with the products earlier, but the umbra of populist opinion and lack of propagation of info shaped a positive image. I reading problems with blocks that were seeping oil and the response in certain forums was "Oh year, that's a known problem." Or the AC compressors blowing up on certain models

Well, all you need to do is go browse the CCBA board here (I am petitioning for a change in its name to Chronic BMW Fanboys Anonymous)

to see how engineering and build quality failure by certain manufacturers can be overlooked or deemed normal.

imidazol97 · February 2021

ab348 said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

Honda products are usually (with an emphasis on “usually”) well engineered and produced with outstanding quality control and offer a nice array of SUV’s, coupes and sedans. However, in recent years there has been a downslide in their outstanding reputation. They have experienced a series of recalls which has tarnished their popularity in some circles.
There was no shortage of problems with the products earlier, but the umbra of populist opinion and lack of propagation of info shaped a positive image. I reading problems with blocks that were seeping oil and the response in certain forums was "Oh year, that's a known problem." Or the AC compressors blowing up on certain models
Well, all you need to do is go browse the CCBA board here (I am petitioning for a change in its name to Chronic BMW Fanboys Anonymous) to see how engineering and build quality failure by certain manufacturers can be overlooked or deemed normal.

Everyone has their preferences. And marketing over the decades has developed so that people are convinced that certain things are what they should want. Image is everything. We used to be bombarded with ads for companies that will "repair" the online reputation of small businesses so that complaints online are taken off, leaving only the "good" reviews that come or will come from the business doing the reputation repair.

My recommendations to my adult son when he mentioned getting a new car sometime in the future were toyota/Hyundai-Kia, then Honda. I pointed out the honda reliance on all turbo motors and that toyota/Hyundai-Kia have lots of motors that are NA along with nonCVT transmissions available. I explained the short comings of what he was thinking about in the other brands for someone who's buying a car to keep, forever. I explained that a decade or so ago honda was ridiculing those who had gone to turbo engines. Then honda is now turbo-charged small engines for sedans.

So I have little interest in the barnyard chicken-pecked GM reputation, like others with gel problems and transmission problems and more, somewhat earned, especially with bad dealer interactions. I told Imid Junior if I were to have a wreck with the Cobalt and needed a new car, I'd stop at the Hyundai store first, walk across the street to the toyota store owned by the same crook, errr I same guy. Then I'd drive to the Kia stores. After picking model and color and style, I'd shop the bigger stores and buy one at wherever that model was available from Columbus to Cincinnati.

sda · February 2021

My 13 Accord with the 2.4 and CVT would sometimes have a little vibration at idle. Normally it idled silky smooth. If I recall it would do that sometimes with the AC off, thus a lower idle, but not always. Even though it idled then with some vibration it was in no way like older 4 cylinders that when they idled you could see and feel the steering wheel, shifter and seat vibrate in unison. I realize the Civic has a different drivetrain.

imidazol97 · February 2021

My 08 Cobalt 2.2 L NA idles smoothly with and without the AC on. It keeps the same idle speed in both circumstances. It reminded me of the Toyota models that were sold in GM showrooms in the late 90s, if I recall the time period. The engine on those was so smooth a glass of water set on the engine barely rippled. Amazingly smooth at the time.

My 14 Malibu 2.5 L with direction injection cannot be felt while idling.

My suspicions would go to some of the settings, hardware or software, for some of the valve timing adjustments that are made on the engines while running. The 2.5 L NA Chevy engine uses a solenoid for the intake valve timing and one for the exhaust valve timing. Those for some people have failed giving an engine code. On the GM engine there's a third valve the controls the oil pressure going to those solenoids that has failed on some.

The extreme engineering on engines has meant a lot of places for something to go wrong. And it takes a good computer engineer to find them. I really can't fault any company for failures, as long as they actively try to determine what's wrong rather than blaming the owner or blaming "that's the way they all are."

I recall a drinking buddy from back in the 70s who had maybe a 74 leMans. The Pontiac dealer just raised the exit door for the drive through write up lane when he kept coming back with problems about the car. "Just go on out the door 'cause we ain't gonna try to fix nothin'," was the implication.

snakeweasel · February 2021

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:
@steine13 At least with paper currency the government more or less will stand behind it.
How is the government going to back it? With what are they backing it with? In other words if you take your paper money to the government to exchange it what would you get for it? The answer is nothing. Your paper money only has value to the extent that people have trust in it, just like bitcoins.
How much in bitcoins do you have?
How many U.S. Dollars do you have?
If you buy $100 worth of groceries will the store accept your bitcoins? Will they accept your U.S. Dollars?
#1. None.
#2. Not as much as I have in Bitcoins.
#3. They could if they want to.
#4. No law says they have to.

Bitcoins don't have a government devaluing it by printing out tons of it.
1)Will the government accept your tax payment...in Bitcoins?
2)Will the government accept your tax payment...in U.S. dollars.

Yes and yes.

While the IRS prefers Yankee greenbacks they do settle tax bills for other items of value. You just have to negotiate it first.

driver100 · February 2021

ab348 said:
The link Mike posted earlier to the Honda forum dealing with the vibration problem seems to draw a correlation between the vibration and an overly low idle speed. The low idle is what the factory calls for but apparently is the source of the problem. They note that if the AC is turned on the computer increases the idle to compensate and the vibration goes away. If the computer is updated to make idle just slightly higher the vibration disappears. But that is not something the dealer apparently will do so it needs to be done at an indie shop with the proper gizmo.

Thanks ab....that was actually my post from yesterday. I think I will start a new career as an auto technician;

driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 28,136
February 14 edited February 14
@abacomike You hit on the usual suspects, motor or transmission mounts.
There are some less likely culprits....doing a bit of research this guy said:
After some slight re-scaling of the airflow sensor the car was able to hit the target idle of 720. It was still a little rough for me though so I turned it up to 800rpm, and now it actually feels like a new car idling.
Remember, I don't know much, just trying to help. Could it be bad gasoline or water in the gas (real long shot...but might be gas flow related)? Agree about going to another dealer though.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/vibration-on-idle.11843/

snakeweasel · February 2021

ab348 said:
The link Mike posted earlier to the Honda forum dealing with the vibration problem seems to draw a correlation between the vibration and an overly low idle speed. The low idle is what the factory calls for but apparently is the source of the problem. They note that if the AC is turned on the computer increases the idle to compensate and the vibration goes away. If the computer is updated to make idle just slightly higher the vibration disappears. But that is not something the dealer apparently will do so it needs to be done at an indie shop with the proper gizmo.

Wait, I thought the problem with indie shops was that they didn't have the proper gizmos to work on modern cars.

snakeweasel · February 2021

ab348 said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

Honda products are usually (with an emphasis on “usually”) well engineered and produced with outstanding quality control and offer a nice array of SUV’s, coupes and sedans. However, in recent years there has been a downslide in their outstanding reputation. They have experienced a series of recalls which has tarnished their popularity in some circles.
There was no shortage of problems with the products earlier, but the umbra of populist opinion and lack of propagation of info shaped a positive image. I reading problems with blocks that were seeping oil and the response in certain forums was "Oh year, that's a known problem." Or the AC compressors blowing up on certain models
Well, all you need to do is go browse the CCBA board here (I am petitioning for a change in its name to Chronic BMW Fanboys Anonymous) to see how engineering and build quality failure by certain manufacturers can be overlooked or deemed normal.

Years ago on this board we were discussing the same thing and someone told me that you have to expect those things in highly engineered German products.

roadburner · February 2021

If you maintain a four or six cylinder RWD BMW properly and ignore the “lifetime” fluid mantra that BMW NA perpetuates you will find that they are pretty reliable.
Not nearly as exciting as some of the pulse pounding vehicles owned by other more enlightened and fortunate members - but still reliable.

jwm40517 · February 2021

The Odyssey recently had a low idle and vibration when stopped at a light. While looking at a different problem I told my indie mechanic about the slow idle also and in a few minutes he found the problem to be the large air cleaner hose was cracked. Did a temporary repair with black electrical tape until I ordered one from Rockauto for $20 shipping included.

jmonroe1 · February 2021

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...
Yep some of us like to live on the edge. I decided not to use the snow blower on my driveway about a month ago when we had about 8 inches of snow. I don’t drive the rear wheel drive Genny when there is a chance that I’d have to live with the consequences of salt so it stays put in the garage. Mrs. j’s Subie was made for snow so I use it. It plowed through that 8 inches with no problem so I haven’t touched the 3 inches that is there now. About an hour ago Mrs. j asked if I was going to remove that measly amount because we could get 5 or 6 inches by tomorrow morning. I told her I’d let her snow plow take care of that. Her response was “what’s wrong with your precious car. Is it afraid of snow”? I paused then said, “yeah, what’s it to ya”? That almost earned me a lap or two around the table.

Sometimes a guy has to suck it up and live on the edge. Regardless of the outcome.

jmonroe
Tip of the day, on snowy days you can change your RWD car to a FWD car fast and inexpensively simply by driving it in reverse.

Never thought of that but it would be very risky at night. And here’s another benefit of what you propose... that’s a good way to unwind the odometer. Unfortunately this now gives our poster buddy @oldfarmer50 something else to consider when buying a hooptie on CL. Now see what you’ve done?

jmonroe

jwm40517 · February 2021

The wife's search for a replacement for the 09 Odyssey has been narrowed to a RAV 4 or Rogue in an upper trim level with leather. Either real leather in the Rogue or Toyota's version of fake leather. Toyota salesman told me yesterday that many people had a problem sitting on real animal hides. I do not.

We have received several offers mostly in a similar range, except for one Nissan dealer about $2000 lower than the others. It was a specific VIN # that I'm sure would have just been sold if I said I would take it. A Honda store in the same group made a similar lowball offer when looking at another Odyssey. I know they do the lowball to get people in the door, but doesn't that just piss off people when the price goes up $2000 for a legitimate deal?

qbrozen · February 2021

jwm40517 said:
The wife's search for a replacement for the 09 Odyssey has been narrowed to a RAV 4 or Rogue in an upper trim level with leather. Either real leather in the Rogue or Toyota's version of fake leather. Toyota salesman told me yesterday that many people had a problem sitting on real animal hides. I do not.

We have received several offers mostly in a similar range, except for one Nissan dealer about $2000 lower than the others. It was a specific VIN # that I'm sure would have just been sold if I said I would take it. A Honda store in the same group made a similar lowball offer when looking at another Odyssey. I know they do the lowball to get people in the door, but doesn't that just piss off people when the price goes up $2000 for a legitimate deal?

Just don’t keep the Nissan past the powertrain warranty period or you’ll need cases of playdough to keep the transmission together.

jmonroe1 · February 2021

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:
@steine13 At least with paper currency the government more or less will stand behind it.
How is the government going to back it? With what are they backing it with? In other words if you take your paper money to the government to exchange it what would you get for it? The answer is nothing. Your paper money only has value to the extent that people have trust in it, just like bitcoins.
How much in bitcoins do you have?
How many U.S. Dollars do you have?
If you buy $100 worth of groceries will the store accept your bitcoins? Will they accept your U.S. Dollars?
#1. None.
#2. Not as much as I have in Bitcoins.
#3. They could if they want to.
#4. No law says they have to.

Bitcoins don't have a government devaluing it by printing out tons of it.
1)Will the government accept your tax payment...in Bitcoins?
2)Will the government accept your tax payment...in U.S. dollars.
Yes and yes.

While the IRS prefers Yankee greenbacks they do settle tax bills for other items of value. You just have to negotiate it first.

What are my chances of negotiating a monetary system where the IRS won’t accept or assess any payment from me at tax time. Note, I only want this at tax time. I don’t want to screw up our economy the rest of the year.

jmonroe

driver100 · February 2021

jwm40517 said:
. I know they do the lowball to get people in the door, but doesn't that just piss off people when the price goes up $2000 for a legitimate deal?

If they can get you to make the trip there they have a chance of talking you into buying a car, especially now that you got the whole family excited. If they don't get you to come in they have a 0 (ZERO) percent chance of selling you a car.

abacomike · February 2021

driver100 said:

ab348 said:
The link Mike posted earlier to the Honda forum dealing with the vibration problem seems to draw a correlation between the vibration and an overly low idle speed. The low idle is what the factory calls for but apparently is the source of the problem. They note that if the AC is turned on the computer increases the idle to compensate and the vibration goes away. If the computer is updated to make idle just slightly higher the vibration disappears. But that is not something the dealer apparently will do so it needs to be done at an indie shop with the proper gizmo.
Thanks ab....that was actually my post from yesterday. I think I will start a new career as an auto technician;

driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 28,136
February 14 edited February 14
@abacomike You hit on the usual suspects, motor or transmission mounts.
There are some less likely culprits....doing a bit of research this guy said:
After some slight re-scaling of the airflow sensor the car was able to hit the target idle of 720. It was still a little rough for me though so I turned it up to 800rpm, and now it actually feels like a new car idling.
Remember, I don't know much, just trying to help. Could it be bad gasoline or water in the gas (real long shot...but might be gas flow related)? Agree about going to another dealer though.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/vibration-on-idle.11843/

This really helped to identify the problem facing many Civic owners. I send the link to my daughter so she could print the discussions and submit the printed concerns to the service manager.

snakeweasel · February 2021

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...
Yep some of us like to live on the edge. I decided not to use the snow blower on my driveway about a month ago when we had about 8 inches of snow. I don’t drive the rear wheel drive Genny when there is a chance that I’d have to live with the consequences of salt so it stays put in the garage. Mrs. j’s Subie was made for snow so I use it. It plowed through that 8 inches with no problem so I haven’t touched the 3 inches that is there now. About an hour ago Mrs. j asked if I was going to remove that measly amount because we could get 5 or 6 inches by tomorrow morning. I told her I’d let her snow plow take care of that. Her response was “what’s wrong with your precious car. Is it afraid of snow”? I paused then said, “yeah, what’s it to ya”? That almost earned me a lap or two around the table.

Sometimes a guy has to suck it up and live on the edge. Regardless of the outcome.

jmonroe
Tip of the day, on snowy days you can change your RWD car to a FWD car fast and inexpensively simply by driving it in reverse.
Never thought of that but it would be very risky at night. And here’s another benefit of what you propose... that’s a good way to unwind the odometer. Unfortunately this now gives our poster buddy @oldfarmer50 something else to consider when buying a hooptie on CL. Now see what you’ve done?

jmonroe

Risky at night (sounds like whisky at night, that's good) why do you think they put those white lights on the back that go on when you go into reverse?

Driving backwards won't unwind an odometer (haven't you learned anything from Ferris Bueller?). Actually I do believe it will advance the odometer, it did on the Chrysler.

snakeweasel · February 2021

qbrozen said:

jwm40517 said:
The wife's search for a replacement for the 09 Odyssey has been narrowed to a RAV 4 or Rogue in an upper trim level with leather. Either real leather in the Rogue or Toyota's version of fake leather. Toyota salesman told me yesterday that many people had a problem sitting on real animal hides. I do not.

We have received several offers mostly in a similar range, except for one Nissan dealer about $2000 lower than the others. It was a specific VIN # that I'm sure would have just been sold if I said I would take it. A Honda store in the same group made a similar lowball offer when looking at another Odyssey. I know they do the lowball to get people in the door, but doesn't that just piss off people when the price goes up $2000 for a legitimate deal?

Just don’t keep the Nissan past the powertrain warranty period or you’ll need cases of playdough to keep the transmission together.

Didn't you know that the perfect second car in these situations is a tow truck?

snakeweasel · February 2021

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:
@steine13 At least with paper currency the government more or less will stand behind it.
How is the government going to back it? With what are they backing it with? In other words if you take your paper money to the government to exchange it what would you get for it? The answer is nothing. Your paper money only has value to the extent that people have trust in it, just like bitcoins.
How much in bitcoins do you have?
How many U.S. Dollars do you have?
If you buy $100 worth of groceries will the store accept your bitcoins? Will they accept your U.S. Dollars?
#1. None.
#2. Not as much as I have in Bitcoins.
#3. They could if they want to.
#4. No law says they have to.

Bitcoins don't have a government devaluing it by printing out tons of it.
1)Will the government accept your tax payment...in Bitcoins?
2)Will the government accept your tax payment...in U.S. dollars.
Yes and yes.

While the IRS prefers Yankee greenbacks they do settle tax bills for other items of value. You just have to negotiate it first.
What are my chances of negotiating a monetary system where the IRS won’t accept or assess any payment from me at tax time. Note, I only want this at tax time. I don’t want to screw up our economy the rest of the year.

jmonroe

Zip, or maybe less than zip. The IRS will only do the negotiations when they are in the collections phase for delinquent taxes.

snakeweasel · February 2021

driver100 said:

jwm40517 said:
. I know they do the lowball to get people in the door, but doesn't that just piss off people when the price goes up $2000 for a legitimate deal?

If they can get you to make the trip there they have a chance of talking you into buying a car, especially now that you got the whole family excited. If they don't get you to come in they have a 0 (ZERO) percent chance of selling you a car.

I had dealers that pulled that on me in the past. Each one had zero chance of selling me a car. One time as I was leaving they offered me the car at the quoted price, I passed. Later that day I drove off with the model and trim I was going to get at another dealer who honored their quoted price from the start. I did pay a couple of hundred more for the car but I trusted that dealer and wasn't willing to reward bad behavior at the first place.

jmonroe1 · February 2021

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...
Yep some of us like to live on the edge. I decided not to use the snow blower on my driveway about a month ago when we had about 8 inches of snow. I don’t drive the rear wheel drive Genny when there is a chance that I’d have to live with the consequences of salt so it stays put in the garage. Mrs. j’s Subie was made for snow so I use it. It plowed through that 8 inches with no problem so I haven’t touched the 3 inches that is there now. About an hour ago Mrs. j asked if I was going to remove that measly amount because we could get 5 or 6 inches by tomorrow morning. I told her I’d let her snow plow take care of that. Her response was “what’s wrong with your precious car. Is it afraid of snow”? I paused then said, “yeah, what’s it to ya”? That almost earned me a lap or two around the table.

Sometimes a guy has to suck it up and live on the edge. Regardless of the outcome.

jmonroe
Tip of the day, on snowy days you can change your RWD car to a FWD car fast and inexpensively simply by driving it in reverse.
Never thought of that but it would be very risky at night. And here’s another benefit of what you propose... that’s a good way to unwind the odometer. Unfortunately this now gives our poster buddy @oldfarmer50 something else to consider when buying a hooptie on CL. Now see what you’ve done?

jmonroe
Risky at night (sounds like whisky at night, that's good) why do you think they put those white lights on the back that go on when you go into reverse?

Driving backwards won't unwind an odometer (haven't you learned anything from Ferris Bueller?). Actually I do believe it will advance the odometer, it did on the Chrysler.

Those little back up lights would only get you pulled over around here because of the lack of illumination. I’d be better off driving without lights in my hood, which seems to have been in vogue for a while now around here.

Yeah, I was waiting to see if you caught that “unwinding” comment. Mrs. j’s Subie seems to record mileage whenever the car is moving in forward or reverse. Never checked it in my Genny but I suspect it works just like the Subie. Might even be like that for all cars nowadays.

jmonroe

snakeweasel · February 2021

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:
I risked it all last night- I drove my RWD(Gasp!) 2er into town to pick up a case for my wife's new iPhone SE. I was constantly gripped by terror as I felt the icy fingers of death straining to reach me.
Then I drove it again today; I'm going to need to lie down for a while, the stress has just been too much...
Yep some of us like to live on the edge. I decided not to use the snow blower on my driveway about a month ago when we had about 8 inches of snow. I don’t drive the rear wheel drive Genny when there is a chance that I’d have to live with the consequences of salt so it stays put in the garage. Mrs. j’s Subie was made for snow so I use it. It plowed through that 8 inches with no problem so I haven’t touched the 3 inches that is there now. About an hour ago Mrs. j asked if I was going to remove that measly amount because we could get 5 or 6 inches by tomorrow morning. I told her I’d let her snow plow take care of that. Her response was “what’s wrong with your precious car. Is it afraid of snow”? I paused then said, “yeah, what’s it to ya”? That almost earned me a lap or two around the table.

Sometimes a guy has to suck it up and live on the edge. Regardless of the outcome.

jmonroe
Tip of the day, on snowy days you can change your RWD car to a FWD car fast and inexpensively simply by driving it in reverse.
Never thought of that but it would be very risky at night. And here’s another benefit of what you propose... that’s a good way to unwind the odometer. Unfortunately this now gives our poster buddy @oldfarmer50 something else to consider when buying a hooptie on CL. Now see what you’ve done?

jmonroe
Risky at night (sounds like whisky at night, that's good) why do you think they put those white lights on the back that go on when you go into reverse?

Driving backwards won't unwind an odometer (haven't you learned anything from Ferris Bueller?). Actually I do believe it will advance the odometer, it did on the Chrysler.
Those little back up lights would only get you pulled over around here because of the lack of illumination. I’d be better off driving without lights in my hood, which seems to have been in vogue for a while now around here.

Yeah, I was waiting to see if you caught that “unwinding” comment. Mrs. j’s Subie seems to record mileage whenever the car is moving in forward or reverse. Never checked it in my Genny but I suspect it works just like the Subie. Might even be like that for all cars nowadays.

jmonroe

A few years back with the Sebring I pulled into the garage and noticed that my odometer was reading 123,456 miles. The next morning as I back out of the driveway it was far enough that it was reading 123,457 when I put in into drive out in the street. I do suspect that it works that way on any car as it is miles put on a car. Which begs the question of how many miles does a typical car drive in reverse? Just a quick calculation if I drove my car to work each day allowing for vacations, holidays and the like I would log 2.8 miles of backward driving in a year just backing out of my driveway to go to work.

roadburner · February 2021

My ice covered driveway now has a coating of several inches of snow. My Wrangler is fitted with BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO1 tires- they are what Tire Rack refers to as All-Weather tires- non-winter tires that are marked with the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol.. So far I haven't used 4WD yet unless I'm trying to get stuck.
The Clubman also wears All-Weather rubber-the Vredestein Quatrac 5-and it also handles the ice and snow with no problem; ground clearance is the primary limitation.
The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires on the M235i also work surprisingly well, you just need to be patient and smooth with control inputs.

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