I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348 · September 2022

I found a picture of a '64 Olds convertible with 3 on the tree that Curbside Classic featured which had a similar though maybe not exactly the same shift lever and knob.

uplanderguy · September 2022

Man, two '64 Dynamic 88's with 3-speed!

andre1969 · September 2022

I wonder what percentage of full-sized Oldsmobiles had a standard shift transmission by 1964? I remember reading somewhere, ages ago, that something like 99.6% of all 1955 DeSotos had an automatic. I'm using that as a reference point because Oldsmobile occupied roughly the same spot in the market as DeSoto did, so I imagine numbers had been similar.

For '64, on the surface I'd think that there would've been even fewer standard shift Oldsmobiles, since the automatic was probably becoming more popular. But, who knows? Some of the mid-priced models actually shifted downward in price in the early 60's, and there might have been more buyers who were on a bit of a budget by that time, as well.

Still, a standard shift seems an odd choice for a 4-door hardtop. While standard shift transmissions are usually considered sportier, I always took that to mean floor shifts. Wasn't a 3-on-the-tree usually the choice of cheapskates?

uplanderguy · September 2022

3-speed column-shift Impalas were even getting pretty unusual by '64 IMHO, although I've seen some over the years in the '65-68 years. I saw an ad for a '68 Impala SS that had a column-shift 3-speed with the standard SS console that, obviously, had no shift lever.

I'd think that the Pontiac/Olds/Buick cars would even be rarer with 3-speed.

Not too long ago, I remember reading that there was one 1971 Buick Centurion convertible built with a 3-speed.

This car was on that same site a few days ago. '64 Impala Sport Sedan bought new by current owner's grandfather--six, 3-speed, no power anything. I'm thinking those wheel covers were probably added later, but who knows. But I'd say this combo is not nearly as rare as that Dynamic 88.
May be an image of car and outdoors

andre1969 · September 2022

Now that I'm home from work, I figured I'd look up a bit of info about the '64 Oldsmobiles. They changed their 88's around so much in the 60's that I never can keep track. Anyway, for '64 it looks like the lineup was:

Jetstar 88: the entry level, starting at $2935. But, it offered a 4-door sedan, 2/4-door hardtops, and a convertible
Dynamic 88: the mass market, starting at $3005. It offered a 4-door sedan, 2/4-door hardtops, convertible, wagons, and something called a "Jetstar I Sport Coupe" The 4-door hardtop was $3139 and they sold 50,327 total, so it actually was pretty popular, but nowhere in the league of an Impala
Super 88: 4 door sedan and 4-door hardtop only, and starting at $3256
Starfire: 2-door hardtop/convertible, starting at $4138
Ninety-Eight: starting at $3993 for the "Town Sedan" and also offering several 2/4-door hardtops, plus the convertible.

The Dynamic 88 came standard with a 394, but only 260 hp, so I'm guessing it was a 2-bbl detuned to run on low octane fuel. Still, pretty much what I'd think of as more or less the dead center of the middle-priced market, so yeah, a 3 on the tree was probably extremely rare.

uplanderguy · September 2022

The full-size Olds lineup in ‘64 appears to mirror the Pontiac lineup for some lines: Jetstar I=2+2; Starfire=Grand Prix; Super 88=Star Chief (sedans only).

ab348 · September 2022

The Jetstar 88 used the new-for-'64 330 V8 from the Cutlass, and 9" drum brakes all around also from the Cutlass. The other big Oldsmobiles used the 394 and 11" drums. The Jetstar also got the 5x4.75" bolt pattern wheels from the Cutlass, while the other models used a 5x5" pattern. If you wanted an automatic transmission in your Jetstar you got the 2-speed Jetaway, while the others with the 394 got the Slim Jim Roto-Hydramatic, although they did offer a "heavy duty" automatic as well. I'm not sure what that was.

sda · September 2022

Compared to the Slim Jim Rotomatic, even with one less gear, the Jetaway transmission was the better unit. I had it in my 65 Cutass and my grandmother’s 68 Cutlass S. It was responsive and smooth but didn't help gas mileage. Our 63 Dynamic 88 had the base 2bbl 260 hp 394. Dad didn’t care for that car too much. He hated how the transmission shifted, it was cold natured and balked and coughed until it warmed up and he found the front seat uncomfortable. He did say it would cruise effortlessly at 80+, where his 66 Galaxie with the 289 felt winded at those speeds. I was reminiscing with him recently, he is 86, and remembers those cars well. His favorite, still, even with all the issues, was his 79 Eldorado diesel. He thought that the styling, interior comfort, ride and handling were first class. He loved the 30mpg on the then cheaper diesel fuel it got on the interstate.

uplanderguy · September 2022

I bag on Chevy's Powerglide since it was a two-speed, but I think it had a pretty good reputation for being reliable. I've since heard racers choose it for that and having only one shift point.

andre1969 · September 2022

I've heard that too, about the Powerglide. Supposedly, even among the Mopar crowd, it is (or once was) popular to mate a Powerglide to a Mopar big block for their race cars. I'm wondering why they picked the Powerglide over Mopar's own Powerflite, but there must have been some rationale there. Could even come down to something as simple as the Powerglide being much more common, and easy to find parts for. The Powerflite was only offered from late 1953 through 1961, and once the Torqueflite came out for '57, demand for the Powerflite dropped like a hot rock.

You'd think that an extra gear would be beneficial, but I think the Powerglide was lighter than your typical 3-speed automatic, not to mention simpler, so that helped. Those engines were powerful enough that they probably didn't need that intermediate gear, and it seems like with race cars, they try to shed every pound possible, that's not essential.

uplanderguy · September 2022

Just saw this '67 2+2 on Hemmings.com. Forget my bloviating about fake vents, and I'm not in love with the disc brake full wheel covers. BUT....I love the car! Fewer than 2K 1967's with the 2+2 package were built! No console, odd. GM usually sold the console separately from bucket seats and whenever I see a car like this one, or a GM with buckets and column shift automatic, I think the customer didn't know and/or the salesman didn't know/remember!

I believe I saw this car a year or two, maybe, ago, when it was for sale previously online.

It's in Marion, OH now. I get there every now and then as a member of the Warren G. Harding Historical Sites there. I'd like to make an excuse to look this fellow and his car up, LOL.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/an-unmodified-1967-catalina-2-2-428-h-o-shows-just-how-much-power-pontiac-offered-its-full-size-car-buyers?utm_medium=email&utm_source=EDaily&utm_campaign=&fbclid=IwAR2Uq-lR2vLuX92zBsfLy1zhuAO67WjLcfPAg2CJYlGD-8xh4zCMpeHufII

stickguy · September 2022

that is a cool car, and neat story. But sad that it does not get driven much. such a waste. Not like 1,000 miles a year is going to make a difference. Plus the owner is already 75, so it won't get too high while he can still drive it!

ab348 · September 2022

I remember when I was 11-12 years old, my friend Tommy who lived down the hill from me had a relative who visited frequently who had a Canadian Pontiac 2+2 (I believe pale yellow w/black interior) which was of course a Chevy under the skin. Such a cool car.

fintail · September 2022

I remember a high school/college friend was gifted a 69 Nova that had belonged to his grandparents I think. A green on green sedan, 307, powerglide (I think he got it around 1995-96). I remember when he floored it, the upshift point seemed to be at around 55-60 mph.

uplanderguy said:
I bag on Chevy's Powerglide since it was a two-speed, but I think it had a pretty good reputation for being reliable. I've since heard racers choose it for that and having only one shift point.

ab348 · September 2022

That would be correct. With my Cutlass and it’s Jetaway, you could downshift at 55 mph if you floored it.

uplanderguy · September 2022

That 2+2--production so low I bet there are some non-Pontiac people who didn't know they even made a '67. 1,768 hardtops and convertibles--that is exactly one unit more than 1964 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawks made in only hardtop, and only between August and December 1963 (my favorite Studebaker, period, BTW).

andre1969 · September 2022

Heck, nowadays there's probably some non-Pontiac people that don't even know what a Pontiac is!

As for rarity, none of my cars have ever been anything you'd call utra-scarce. I always found it amusing though, that the rarest car I ever owned was a 1989 Gran Fury. They only made 4,985 that year. For comparison, they made 10,033 '67 Catalina convertibles, 12,179 '57 DeSoto Firedome hardtop coupes, 14,757 '76 Pontiac Grand LeMans coupes, and 54,640 '79 New Yorkers, of which I've heard about 15000 had the 5th Avenue package.

The Gran Fury just seemed so everywhere, for awhile though, so it's weird to think of it as being scarce. However, most of them were police cars and taxis, so you tended to see them out and about all the time. And the Gran Fury looked the same from '82-89. On top of that, unless you really know what to look for, the Dodge Diplomat was identical, and it looked the same from '80-89.

I haven't driven a 2-speed car in ages. I think the last one was a 1958 DeSoto Firesweep 4-door, and that was way back in 1995. It had a 350-2bbl with 280 hp. It was for sale by a somewhat local guy, who lived up north of Baltimore, and had a fetish for '59 DeSotos. I could've gotten this '58 for like $800 or so at the time, but someone beat me to it. Probably for the best, as I was really too young to be building up a fleet of cars back then. In college, I remember driving a '68 Impala 4-door hardtop with a 307 and Powerglide that was for sale at a little used car lot. They both seemed adequate, but I also didn't try pushing either one to the limit.

ab348 · September 2022

The thing with Powerglide/Jetaway transmissions was that their first gear was pretty close to the ratio of 2nd gear in a 3-speed automatic. So they weren't great off the line but were OK once you got rolling. From '64 to '67 when Pontiac, Olds and Buick had the switch-pitch torque converters (I don't think Chevy ever did) if you started off aggressively the converter would give you a bit more punch at about 3/4 throttle and up.

andre1969 · September 2022

The 2-speed automatics had a quicker axle ratio as well. So I wonder if there were some speed ranges where a 2-speed might actually perform better than a 3-speed? Like, for example, if you could get a 2-speed to downshift to 1st around 50 mph, it might pull a bit better than a 3-speed that downshifts from direct drive to 2nd?

I guess in theory, a 3-speed could downshift all the way to first, at the right speed? 50 mph might be too high, though. My 5th Ave will hold first up to around 55 on hard acceleration. The Catalina goes a bit higher, and will chirp a tire going into second. But, under gentle acceleration they'll both go into third around 20 mph or so. And loafing along in 3rd, if I stomp on it around 50, while they'll shift into 2nd, they wouldn't go into first.

uplanderguy · September 2022

Nice '56 T-Bird at a local cruise last night. I'd have to dump the fuzzy dice.

uplanderguy · September 2022

Pretty decent '79 Sedan deVille at the cruise. I like the dark green cloth interior. While it's obvious it's a Caddy, the size and styling seemed to have aged pretty well:

uplanderguy · September 2022

I also admired the originality/authenticity, in and out, of this '77 Monte Carlo there last night. I don't like the '77's taillights, don't care for this car's body side moldings (although probably 90% of production had them), and I DETEST the '77-only hood ornament that to me on this swoopy body, stands up like a sore thumb. All that said, I still like the five-slot Rally Wheels (retired after '77) and the Firethorn color, as popular as it was. I also like that even the dirt-cheapest Monte then had the bigger tires and rear stabilizer bar.

andre, this car still has its "GM Nationals Carlisle June 2022" sticker on the windshield so you may have at least walked by it there.

andre1969 · September 2022

uplanderguy said:
andre, this car still has its "GM Nationals Carlisle June 2022" sticker on the windshield so you may have at least walked by it there.

I was too lazy to post my car show pics this year, but did go through them, and look what I found!

It probably caught my eye, because of that Firethorn color. That's the color my '76 LeMans should be, if it had been repainted correctly.

As for the '76-77 Monte, I don't really have a preference, either way. I'm sure if I saw them side by side, or paid attention to the pics long enough, I might find details that make me prefer one over the other.

I'm sort of that way with the '76-77 LeMans, too. Going by the style, I like the grille of the '76 base LeMans/Sport Coupe the best. It has a nice, clean look to it, almost a bit of a crosshair look. But, I ended up with a '76 Grand LeMans that has a '77 Grand LeMans front end. Back in 2005, at the GM show in Carlisle, I bought a set of the grille inserts from a '76 base LeMans, and thought about putting them on my car to get that look I like. But, never got around to it, and over time, I just got used to the way the car looks, as is.

uplanderguy · September 2022

Boy, what is the chance of that?!

I know people dislike the stacked headlights, but of that '73-77 style, I probably would pick a '76 over all the other years. I like the tall taillights, and no hood ornament mostly, and by '76 they had an optional interior that cured some (but not all) of the faults of the earlier Montes of that style IMHO.

Boy, I just cannot stand seeing the bolts in the bumpers of the cars then. I would have HAD to have the 'Deluxe Bumpers', strips covering these.

fintail · September 2022

Of those cruise cars, I like the Caddy, those downsized cars were handsome then and the design has aged well. Count me in on not loving the stacked lights - it works wonderfully on a number of 60s cars, but on most 70s cars, not so much. Fords were just as odd as Chevys with it.

andre1969 · September 2022

With stacked lights, for me it depends. I don't mind them on the Chevelle/Malibu and Monte Carlo. And on the Cordoba, Monaco, and "New, Small Fury" they don't bug me. But with the LTD-II, they look like they're mounted too far inward. And on the '76-77 4-door Century/Regal models, they're too far outward!

I thought it was a bit odd that Buick chose to go with two different styles for the 2-door and 4-door/wagon models of those '76-77 Colonades. Olds, which sold way more Cutlasses, went with one basic look for them all, even if the coupes got a more substantial sheetmetal re-do. I would think that the Buicks, which sold on smaller volume, would have tried to consolidate more, whereas with the Cutlass, with its huge volume, they actually could have differentiated the styling...although I'm glad they didn't as I think the front they used looks good on both the 2- and 4-door/wagons.

I like that '79 Caddy a lot, especially in that color. It's too bad that '80 Electra I posted a few days ago didn't have an interior in that hue. While I liked the exterior color of that Electra, the green they used for its interior seemed to clash.

sda · September 2022

The wire wheel covers on the 79 DeVille are the same as what was on dad's 78 DeVille d'Elegance. One evening when he left his office and approached the car he noticed someone had stolen all 4. Insurance took care of replacing them. I think they were almost $200 ea, 1980 dollars! About a month after replacing the wheel covers he traded the DeVille for his Eldorado. The Eldorado was this color combo, but had the wire wheel covers as well. I loved the saddle color leather interior.

sda · September 2022

Sadly, this is the only picture of his Eldorado that I have. I was in the process of repainting my Sunbird, summer of 83. Sheeba the lab was my best buddy. If you expand the pic, the front plate on the Eldo was Dean Witter, almost the same colors as the car! Dad worked for DW for several years.

fintail · September 2022

Spotted this in a fintail group, my car's brother from another mother (this is a carbureted model - 220S). It's definitely the same color. Related to headlights, this car is in Spain and has the Euro/ROW spec flush composite lights, fintails were among the first cars to have that design. While these were modern and no doubt intended to make the car look modern, I think stacked lights look more classical:

andre1969 · September 2022

That fintail might be in Spain, but that parking is pure American!

But, yeah, I think the stacked quads definitely look like they flow better with the overall style.

At the Das Awkscht Fescht car show in Macungie PA last month (the one I had a blowout on the way to), I took a pic of your fintail's baby brother...

andre1969 · September 2022

sda said:
Sadly, this is the only picture of his Eldorado that I have. I was in the process of repainting my Sunbird, summer of 83. Sheeba the lab was my best buddy. If you expand the pic, the front plate on the Eldo was Dean Witter, almost the same colors as the car! Dad worked for DW for several years.

It's really a shame that digital cameras weren't invented much earlier on. Just imagine all the cool old period shots we would have today. My Dad actually took a few pictures of his cars, but other than that, for the most part, looking through old pictures and albums and such, about the best I can hope for is a part of the car in the background.

Once upon a time, I detested brown cars, but as I've aged, my attitude on them has softened considerably. That Eldorado looks really sharp, in that color combo, and the interior is gorgeous!

uplanderguy · September 2022

I like some of the dark brown metallics that are reappearing. My sister had a new 1973 Chevelle wagon in such a color and it looked pretty rich I think. I like the 1964 Studebaker 'Bermuda Brown' color that was similar, and I like the C8 in 'Caffeine', a dark metallic brown.

I think leather interiors, and nicer vinyl interiors, seem like they're supposed to be saddle-colored.

Even though I like the Avanti in turquoise, I would want one with the saddle-colored solid vinyl interior, not often-seen.

uplanderguy · September 2022

Speaking of poor parking....a huge peeve of mine....I posted this local photo I took, on my FB page a couple days ago. Sheesh.
May be an image of car and road

andre1969 · September 2022

On the subject of Studebakers, this was also at that Das Awkscht Fescht show...

imidazol97 · September 2022

uplanderguy said:
Speaking of poor parking....a huge peeve of mine....I posted this local photo I took, on my FB page a couple days ago. Sheesh.

Welcome to Ohio.

andre1969 · September 2022

So, tell me about that storefront that says "Edible" on it. Here in the DC area, that probably has a whole different meaning!

fintail · September 2022

Parking with the wheels not straight (when not on a hill) also grinds my gears a bit.

The car you spotted is a W110 1965-67, indeed the baby brother as most W110s were 4cyl. MB got mileage out of that design.

andre1969 said:
That fintail might be in Spain, but that parking is pure American! But, yeah, I think the stacked quads definitely look like they flow better with the overall style.

At the Das Awkscht Fescht car show in Macungie PA last month (the one I had a blowout on the way to), I took a pic of your fintail's baby brother...

sda · September 2022

What tires did you get for the Catalina? Whitewalls?

explorerx4 · September 2022

I should have taken a picture. Yesterday I saw an F150 Limited parked right no top of 'NO PARKING' painted in front of the post office door.

fintail · September 2022

I don't think I have any pics of the old Fords my dad had in the 90s - nobody was too sentimental about them, and they might be in a background at most. I wish I could find something of the 60 especially. I have a few images with the T-Bird and Horizon in the background. I have one pic with a sliver of the Mustang, and nothing of my mom's Beetle, or anything owned before I was born. No pics of the Tempo or later cars of my mom or dad either, although they might exist in the background view - I need to look, but a lot of images were lost in a flood about 20 years ago. A Tempo pic would be cool in a way.

andre1969 said:

sda said:
Sadly, this is the only picture of his Eldorado that I have. I was in the process of repainting my Sunbird, summer of 83. Sheeba the lab was my best buddy. If you expand the pic, the front plate on the Eldo was Dean Witter, almost the same colors as the car! Dad worked for DW for several years.
It's really a shame that digital cameras weren't invented much earlier on. Just imagine all the cool old period shots we would have today. My Dad actually took a few pictures of his cars, but other than that, for the most part, looking through old pictures and albums and such, about the best I can hope for is a part of the car in the background.

Once upon a time, I detested brown cars, but as I've aged, my attitude on them has softened considerably. That Eldorado looks really sharp, in that color combo, and the interior is gorgeous!

sda · September 2022

For a period of 10 years or so I took a number of pictures of the cars I owned and sometimes of others from my Pentax or Minolta 35mm cameras. My Minolta had the APS film that is no longer available nor can the film be developed. That is a huge bummer as it was a great camera and I have multiple lenses for it. I've shared many pics here (and hopefully haven't bored you with them). With my smartphone, often I will just take a pic of the printed pic that I have and try to edit it the best I can. My smartphone is the only camera I currently use.

uplanderguy · September 2022

That ‘57 Stude has good basic lines I think; trim size, and low belt line. Not a Stude I want to own but thanks for posting! The taillights remind me of ‘57 Pontiacs. I like the same body with the ‘56 taillights though—look like flares.

I detest bumper stickers almost as much as tattoos all over a beautiful lady! LOL

tjc78 · September 2022

@sda said:
For a period of 10 years or so I took a number of pictures of the cars I owned and sometimes of others from my Pentax or Minolta 35mm cameras. My Minolta had the APS film that is no longer available nor can the film be developed. That is a huge bummer as it was a great camera and I have multiple lenses for it. I've shared many pics here (and hopefully haven't bored you with them). With my smartphone, often I will just take a pic of the printed pic that I have and try to edit it the best I can. My smartphone is the only camera I currently use.

I’ve taken pictures of pictures with phone too. Gets the job done well enough for the forums lol.

Here are few. My 89 Town Car, Pop’s 98 Town Car Touring peaking out front and his 1981 Mark VI Givenchy

tjc78 · September 2022

I’d guess the Mark picture was taken around 1984 or so at my Aunt’s in CT. The other pic was taken around 2001 at my Grandpops in southern Nj.

andre1969 · September 2022

I think the '56 Studebaker's rear definitely looks better.

The '57 taillights just look too wide for the car, and have sort of a "cost-cutted" look about them. Still, I guess you gotta give them some credit for bothering with an annual change, considering money was probably getting tight for them by this time.

It's too bad the Starlight hardtop coupe didn't come out a couple years earlier. I think that roofline would have looked pretty with the '56-57 styling.

kyfdx · September 2022

andre1969 said:
So, tell me about that storefront that says "Edible" on it. Here in the DC area, that probably has a whole different meaning!

It might be "Edible Arrangements". I can't blow it up enough to tell. They make "floral arrangements" out of fruit. Chocolate covered strawberries, etc.

Either that, or it's a medical grade pot shop (legal in Ohio)

andre1969 · September 2022

kyfdx said:
It might be "Edible Arrangements". I can't blow it up enough to tell. They make "floral arrangements" out of fruit. Chocolate covered strawberries, etc.

Either that, or it's a medical grade pot shop (legal in Ohio)

Yeah, the second one is where my mind was going

, but I'm pretty sure it's the first. I looked them up, and that's their logo. Here's one that's not far from me...

Wait...is that a "Health and Mobility" store in between the Edible Arrangements and a Bakery? That almost seems like a setup for a joke!

fintail · September 2022

sda said:
For a period of 10 years or so I took a number of pictures of the cars I owned and sometimes of others from my Pentax or Minolta 35mm cameras. My Minolta had the APS film that is no longer available nor can the film be developed. That is a huge bummer as it was a great camera and I have multiple lenses for it. I've shared many pics here (and hopefully haven't bored you with them). With my smartphone, often I will just take a pic of the printed pic that I have and try to edit it the best I can. My smartphone is the only camera I currently use.

Your pics are great, I wish I had the foresight to take or save more pics. I have pics of the fintail going back to maybe 1996, but it looked pretty much the same save for tires. I never thought to save pics of other cars in the family, things like my sister's first car - a red Rampage, or brother's first car - a yellow 85 K-car, come to mind.

fintail · September 2022

tjc78 said:
I’d guess the Mark picture was taken around 1984 or so at my Aunt’s in CT. The other pic was taken around 2001 at my Grandpops in southern Nj.

Peak malaise there, so angular.

Back in the day an aunt had a bustleback Fox Continental, no pics of course.

sda · September 2022

I liked the bustle back Continental. It was less severe and had softer contours than the Seville. Two tone black and burgundy rocked. I also liked the bustle back Imperial as a two door. It had crisp lines, hidden lamps and crystal cut Chrysler pentagons. Too bad the fuel injection on it was awful. The Seville with the 368 V8 is the one to have.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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