I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

uplanderguy · December 2022

A friend of mine had a burgundy '88 Continental. At the time I thought it was a good-looking car (even with the vent-on-a-vent windows I always moan about!).

He bought it used and he traded it after not long, his custom. I don't remember hearing he had any real problems with it.

kyfdx · December 2022

LS: you could get a stick with the V-6, though..

sda · December 2022

My sister’s boss had a new 88 Continental, all options, dark metallic brown with dark brown leather interior. It was very nice and comfortable. I drove it a couple of times when he sent my sister out to do some errands. That car was a mess of problems including a botched factory paint job. Under warranty Lincoln had it repainted. He didn’t have it long and Ford lost a loyal customer who only bought Ford products. Only Lexus in his driveway since.

uplanderguy · December 2022

People do have long memories. I always thought when I was a kid if a guy who said he wouldn't buy a new Mustang or Fairlane because his Model A was bad, I'd see him as a crank but today that's pretty typical!

stickguy · December 2022

Hallmark intentionally makes every movie follow the same script. I think of it like the old Mad Libs we did as kids. just change the names, location, and a few details and the rest is the same exact plot.

fintail · December 2022

I am ok with that Nomad ad, a little sappy and hard to follow being chopped up for shorter form, but heritage theme stuff is cool to me.

Nomad is also just like the one MacGyver inherited:

Can't stand Hallmark stuff, hoping to keep that stuff off the TV when I visit at Christmas

fintail · December 2022

I like looking at old ads, and have been surprised in seeing the Taurinentals being more expensive than TCs in blowout sales (maybe rental returns or something). I recall a MotorWeek test where they have one compared to a DeVille of the day and rave about it, but they certainly didn't age well with that double whammy. Maybe not a surprise, I recall seeing a couple on the road around here.

tjc78 said:
The V8 Lincoln LS was much more reliable than the V6 surprisingly.

The Mark VII’s powertrain (5.0/AOD) was pretty much bulletproof. The problem was the suspension, anti-lock brakes and electrical gremlins.

The 88-94 Continental was just a mess. All the 3.8 V6 Taurus problems carried over, and then four wheel air suspension as well. Just not a good car. Decent looking, good riding and comfortable for the time… just not a long term keeper

ab348 · December 2022

That "The Last Detail" webpage is just awful. I kept clicking to advance the pictures and most of the time it did not respond at all. Not a good way to sell a vehicle.

With those Sevilles, it is all about whether the fuel injection works properly. They are unfortunately problematic.

ab348 · December 2022

fintail said:
I am ok with that Nomad ad, a little sappy and hard to follow being chopped up for shorter form, but heritage theme stuff is cool to me.

It's even more sappy and hard to follow in the 5-minute version.

I think Chevy can do better. Their "Everywhere" EV ad with Fleetwood Mac (RIP Ms. McVie) is proof of that.

tjc78 · December 2022

@fintail said:
I like looking at old ads, and have been surprised in seeing the Taurinentals being more expensive than TCs in blowout sales (maybe rental returns or something). I recall a MotorWeek test where they have one compared to a DeVille of the day and rave about it, but they certainly didn't age well with that double whammy. Maybe not a surprise, I recall seeing a couple on the road around here.

The Taurus was well loved at the time, so no surprise the Continental scored well. It was very nicely trimmed inside and had a lot of tech. In that era if Ford could have had a decent large V6 things would have been so different.

Think of how much better GM’s 3.8 was than Fords. Not even a contest. Heck Chrysler’s 3.3 and 3.8 blew it away too.

sda · December 2022

A friend of mine who ran a work for wheels charitable car lot for a church said he loved getting the 3.0 Vulcan V6 Taurus and Sable. He said they ran forever with little fuss. Only real weak point was the heater core, a bust to replace, and occasionally the transmission. He liked how the 3.8 ran but would not gift them in fear of the dreaded head gasket engine failure issue. Typically the cars he received were already high mileage beasts.

tjc78 · December 2022

The 3.8 car not only suffered from the head gasket issues, but also that extra weight caused issues in the front end causing things to wear out faster than on the 3.0 cars. At least that is what I was told when my 93 Taurus 3.8 needed several things replaced at 70K

fintail · December 2022

tjc78 said:

@fintail said:

I like looking at old ads, and have been surprised in seeing the Taurinentals being more expensive than TCs in blowout sales (maybe rental returns or something). I recall a MotorWeek test where they have one compared to a DeVille of the day and rave about it, but they certainly didn't age well with that double whammy. Maybe not a surprise, I recall seeing a couple on the road around here.

The Taurus was well loved at the time, so no surprise the Continental scored well. It was very nicely trimmed inside and had a lot of tech. In that era if Ford could have had a decent large V6 things would have been so different.

Think of how much better GM’s 3.8 was than Fords. Not even a contest. Heck Chrysler’s 3.3 and 3.8 blew it away too.

From what I recall, the 3.8 was almost guaranteed to lose a head gasket, while the earlier versions anyway of the 3.0 Taurus liked to eat transmissions. That 3.8 became a real liability.

fintail · December 2022

My mom's 93 Taurus with a 3.8 lost the head gasket at just under 80K, IIRC. She had the car for maybe 10-11 years at point, and her indy mechanic told her something like if it was him, he'd just get another car - so she did. Although the Taurus had been relatively fine to that point, she went to Toyota like many of her friends, and will likely never stray from it.

I remember being in my uncle's early build 86 Taurus with the 3.0, when the transmission went out. I think it initially lost a low forward gear, then everything. My grandma's last car was a later Vulcan Taurus that I recall having few real issues. It eventually went to my uncle, who used it to replace his miled up LeSabre, and eventually traded it on a used Fit.

tjc78 said:
The 3.8 car not only suffered from the head gasket issues, but also that extra weight caused issues in the front end causing things to wear out faster than on the 3.0 cars. At least that is what I was told when my 93 Taurus 3.8 needed several things replaced at 70K

tjc78 · December 2022

My Taurus lost the head gasket at 75K miles. It was about 5 years old at the time. Luckily I had an extended warranty on it.

roadburner · December 2022

uplanderguy said:
I have not seen this on TV, but a friend sent it to me this morning. Apparently it's this year's Chevy nostalgic commercial. I am tired of '57 Chevys, but have always been a sucker for a Nomad.

I think this commercial is harder to follow than last year's. My friend thinks so too.

I think the car belonged to Mr. and Mrs. Hayes; he died in the early '70's perhaps; she befriends neighborhood kid and he likes the car; he repairs it for her for Christmas (it didn't start at the beginning of the commercial).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhL3pc9sN08

The problem with these Chevy nostalgia ads is the fact that the classics are infinitely more desirable then the modern cars.

uplanderguy · December 2022

I like the several other Chevys in the background to indicate the passing of time in the commercial.

Other than I never liked the LS roofline on those Caprice Classic Broughams--Chevy copied from the '80's Fifth Avenue; there's a black LS in the commercial--I was reminded of how nice those cars looked, overall.

My friend complained of the air cleaner element 'Billy' is holding is not the kind that car would use.

Still, for me, growing up with Chevys in my immediate and extended families, as well as neighbors and friends, and with good experiences with them, overall I enjoyed the commercial. I liked last year's "Mom's Car" ('66 Impala SS convertible) better than this one though.

uplanderguy · December 2022

That "The Last Detail" webpage is just awful. I kept clicking to advance the pictures and most of the time it did not respond at all. Not a good way to sell a vehicle.

On my phone, anyway, I was able to just scroll down through every photo.

andre1969 · December 2022

I thought that "5th Avenue" roof treatment on the Caprice LS was odd when it was new., but don't mind it, these days. I always called it the "R-body treatment", mainly because of that padding around the little spacer window in the door, to give it an opera window look. Although perhaps that's not the best description, as the R-body never tacked on a fiberglass piece to square off the roofline, like the M-body 5th Avenue did.

That treatment might look a bit odd on the Caprice, because the rest of the car, in my opinion at least, actually looks somewhat modern. At least, modern for this type of car. But that squared off roofline and thick padding seems like a bit of a throwback. I think it works on the M-body 5th Avenue though, because that car already has a bit of a "neoclassic" throwback look to it, to begin with.

On the subject of the Ford 3.8/Essex...I don't know how true this is, but I heard that Ford reverse-engineered a Buick 231, to learn how to build it. Unfortunately, the 231 was a pretty serious junk-engine when Ford did that! It wasn't until 1985, when GM did a substantial re-do of the 231, that it became the durable engine with the quality reputation it has today.

Oddly though, I don't think the 231 ever had head gasket issues. I wonder why Ford didn't just take the easy way out and chop two cylinders off of a V8, to make their V6?

sda · December 2022

This is very similar to mom's 87 Taurus LX, same wheels, two-tone, cornering lamps. Hers had the red matching velour interior and sunroof. It had around 60k on it when it was traded for her 98 Olds Aurora 4.0 w/autobahn package and sunroof. She never really took to the Taurus but she loved her Aurora.

roadburner · December 2022

sda said:
This is very similar to mom's 87 Taurus LX, same wheels, two-tone, cornering lamps. Hers had the red matching velour interior and sunroof. It had around 60k on it when it was traded for her 98 Olds Aurora 4.0 w/autobahn package and sunroof. She never really took to the Taurus but she loved her Aurora.

I liked the 1st Gen Aurora a lot- I only wished it had been RWD.

explorerx4 · December 2022

Unusual place to find one of these. Edit: It's a fakey.

https://www.tflbids.com/

stickguy · December 2022

I like that. it isn't a fake. It just isn't an M5. More like the M240 series now based on the writeup.

fintail · December 2022

sda said:
This is very similar to mom's 87 Taurus LX, same wheels, two-tone, cornering lamps. Hers had the red matching velour interior and sunroof. It had around 60k on it when it was traded for her 98 Olds Aurora 4.0 w/autobahn package and sunroof. She never really took to the Taurus but she loved her Aurora.

Amusingly, diecast company Greenlight has recently released a 1:64 model of a similarly trimmed Taurus, as interest in 80s cars continues to build:

sda · December 2022

The polycast wheels on steel rims had chrome trim rings that were a bear to fasten without denting them. I liked the alloy wheels in the later models much better. I found the interior of the Taurus LX to be very nice, feature filled, good quality and comfortable. It had a fair amount of european touches such adjustable lumbar support on the driver seat and a lidded magazine compartment on the parcel shelf. It handled fairly crisply and had a supple well controlled ride, power was adequate with engine noise being a bit gruff but got good mpg. Other than a bad battery it never failed to start or broke down. Overall a very nice balanced car for that period.

fintail · December 2022

My mom's Tempo also had polycast wheels with those trim rings, which always seemed odd to me - trim rings on an "alloy" wheel? Never seen it before or since.

My grandpa had a 90 or 91 Taurus that might have been an LX - I clearly recall it had cornering lights, and it was relatively plush. I recall it was blue on blue, but I don't remember a ton about it, something weird eventually happened to it, like an engine fire when parked maybe.

roadburner · December 2022

stickguy said:
I like that. it isn't a fake. It just isn't an M5. More like the M240 series now based on the writeup.

Actually, the first M car based on a production model was the E12 535i. Like the subsequent E28 535i, it received a body kit, sport seats and an upgraded suspension. However the engine in both cars was a dead stock 3.5 liter M30 I6. To complicate matters even more, the European M635CSi did get a true M motor- the M88.The M3 and M5 likewise received M motors- and the M635CSi was renamed the M6 when it came to North America. The 1987-1988 US 535is was a close cousin of the M535i.

uplanderguy · December 2022

Although it sold great as sedan and wagon, I wish Ford would've tried a coupe version of the Taurus. Thinking about it, I don't believe they ever made a FWD coupe larger than a Tempo.

andre1969 · December 2022

I don't think a coupe version of the Taurus would have sold very well. What I call "mainstream" coupes (as in, non-personal luxury) had been trailing off in popularity every since downsizing started, but by the mid 80's, even personal luxury coupes weren't the hot sellers they once were.

The Celebrity coupe, for instance, never even outsold the 1981 Malibu coupe, although it did come close. The Malibu coupe, in its final year, sold just over 30,000 units. The Celebrity coupe sold around 18-19K in 1982/83, and then a consistent ~29K from '84-86, before trailing off again.

I think you're right, about there never being a Ford FWD coupe larger than a Tempo. The Tempo was more or less replaced by the Contour/Mystique, which was only offered as a sedan. The Ford Focus was offered as a coupe (as opposed to a 2 door hatchback) for a few years. It had a longer wheelbase than a Tempo, but I think was a bit shorter overall. I'd imagine it was heavier than a Tempo, though.

uplanderguy · December 2022

I did like (not love) the GM-10 coupes for size and styling, and they were quite differentiated in styling. I liked the Cutlass Supreme coupe with 60/40 bench seat and column shift, and I also like the Lumina Euro coupes with spoiler delete (buddy used to call those spoilers 'frisbees') with split bench and column shift. By that time I didn't like the multi-button dash of the Grand Prix.

I remember the first Taurus I drove. Two things impressed me right away--the interior space, and the rear-seat center armrest.

uplanderguy · December 2022

I think the styling has held up fairly well. Nobody else did FWD coupes that kind of wheelbase. 1990 Chevrolet Lumina 2 Dr Euro Coupe Shown

img

COAL: 1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme – A Beautiful Machine ...

I always liked the big quarter window of the Cutlass Supreme, but looking at these pics today, I think the Lumina has aged better, probably because the styling is more conservative. While the Lumina instrument panel is a weak point, at least it had analog gauges unlike the other three.

explorerx4 · December 2022

How about the 89 Thunderbird? Certainly larger than a Tempo.

andre1969 · December 2022

explorerx4 said:
How about the 89 Thunderbird? Certainly larger than a Tempo.

Yep, but Uplander threw in that caveat of being FWD as a stipulation. Of the Detroit three, I think GM was the only manufacturer that really got into intermediate and full-sized FWD coupes. Chrysler did have the Sebring convertible, which probably would have qualified as midsized based on its wheelbase and exterior dimensions. Those Mitsubishi-sourced Avenger/Stratus/Sebring coupes were a bit large-ish for the time...around 190" long, but on a somewhat stubby 103.7" wb. But they would've been typical sporty-compact inside...maybe fairly roomy up front, but a tight back seat.

On the personal luxury coupe front, I think Ford did a better job, keeping the '89 T-bird/Cougar RWD and offering a V8 engine, so they were more of a mix of modern and traditional. But, it seems GM ultimately won that battle, I guess, as the T-bird/Cougar went away after 1997, although I think the Mark VIII hung around through 1998. But the Grand Prix coupe made it through 2003, and the Monte Carlo made it through 2007.

tjc78 · December 2022

Hear me out … Taurus SHO Coupe.

How awesome would that have been !!!

andre1969 · December 2022

Re Cutlass Supreme coupe vs Lumina coupe...
I think the Cutlass Supreme has a bit more of an exotic, futuristic look about it from most angles, but when viewed from the side like in that picture above, I think it loses a bit of its luster. That hidden C-pillar was an interesting idea, but I think when you look at it from the side, it seems odd to have an exposed A-pillar, an exposed B-, but then the C-pillar behind the glass. It makes the car look incomplete to me.

With the Lumina, I like that wraparound rear window. Even though these cars have a fairly stubby rear deck, I think having the C-pillar fall further forward, and then using the wraparound rear window to extend the passenger cabin (or rather package shelf, I guess), to me it give the illusion of a longer rear deck.

I never cared for that GM-10 FWD Regal coupe at all, though. I wasn't a huge fan of the '88-96 Grand Prix originally, too much of that "Ribs & Wings" school of "performance". And the interiors with too many buttons, too many pieces, and too much plastic. But, now that they're a somewhat rare sight, I like them better now than back in the day. Now the '97-03 Grand Prix coupe, I think that one's gorgeous. Although I do prefer the styles with the grille nostrils between the headlights, rather than low in the bumper.

andys120 · December 2022

tjc78 said:
Hear me out … Taurus SHO Coupe.

How awesome would that have been !!!

Awesome is not the word I would use. My 1992 SHO 4 door was a great engine in search of a good car.

explorerx4 · December 2022

I missed the FWD part, but considering how awkward the Tempo coupe looked, probably a good idea to skip it.

fintail · December 2022

I always kind of liked the Lumina dash design, the way the gauges are recessed, kind of futuristic looking, and by not jutting out, amplified the already tall greenhouse in those cars. I guess the first gen cars never had airbags? I've only seen them with this wheel, which doesn't look like a period airbag unit:

I also agree the Tempo looks better as a sedan.

uplanderguy · December 2022

The first-gen Lumina never got airbags. It's really one reason when thinking about a new Lumina in '93, I decided to spend a little (quite little) more and get a Caprice Classic, which also had ABS standard.

The Tempo coupe always looked chubby to me, but I do remember them being advertised at prices almost hard to believe. I'm thinking this was after the sedan was redesigned.

My memories of the GM-10's, although I liked them as a FWD line--still a little size and character from older cars--I remember head room in the coupes being tight (i have short legs but long torso), and the back seat, although pretty generous leg room for a coupe I think, the seat cushion was low. Reminded me of sitting on cushions on bleachers at a school event, LOL.

My Dad test-drove a '90 Lumina coupe, non-Euro, as a replacement for his '84 Monte Carlo. It was at a dealer 25 miles away. He liked the looks and feel but ended up buying a V6 Corsica with column-shift automatic at our hometown dealer. I'd have opted for the Lumina.

Back in the gen-1 Lumina days, I'd have picked either the maroon ('Carmine'?) or brown ('Saddle' or maybe 'Neutral') interior. I've long-been turned off to gray interiors from all my years of seeing them in every make of rental car I had.

andre1969 · December 2022

uplanderguy said:
My memories of the GM-10's, although I liked them as a FWD line--still a little size and character from older cars--I remember head room in the coupes being tight (i have short legs but long torso), and the back seat, although pretty generous leg room for a coupe I think, the seat cushion was low. Reminded me of sitting on cushions on bleachers at a school event, LOL.

It's been ages since I've been in any GM-10, but I seem to remember them all being a bit short on legroom, too. One thing I just noticed, in the pic of that Lumina that fintail posted, is that, judging from the placement of the floor mats at least, it looks like there's a lot less room on the passenger side. It looks like the floor is higher, and the footwell doesn't extend as far forward as on the driver's side. It makes me think of some of those RWD cars where they'd raise the floor a bit on the passenger side to allow some clearance for the catalytic converter.

And yeah, I do remember those back seats in the coupes, having a small, low cushion. Oddly, when they do that, it actually makes it easier for a taller passenger to fit, because the lower your butt in relation to the floor, the more of a fetal position it puts you in! You might not be comfortable, but you'll fit!

This might the the old "rose tinted glasses" effect at work, but looking at the pic that fintail posted, the interior of the Lumina doesn't seem nearly as bad as I remember! I don't normally like gray interiors either, but, again, that one doesn't bother me. I think the biggest problem with gray is that if you have a lot of plastic in the interior, it makes the car look cheap, whereas other colors, like beige or even charcoal/black, tend to mute down the harsh look of that plastic. I think blues, greens, and reds look nice too...at least until they fade at different rates into hues that Mother Nature never intended.

uplanderguy · December 2022

This car was for sale two miles down the road, in July 2019. No idea of asking price; sign said 117K miles.

Lamest wheel covers ever, but I'd like this car with the optional factory, polished aluminum wheels.

uplanderguy · December 2022

Poor interior shot. You see more of our Equinox.

tjc78 · December 2022

My 03 Avalon had a recessed dash like that. Everyone used to compliment it.

ab348 · December 2022

I'll go against the grain here and say I never liked the Lumina at all. I remember getting one as a rental early after they were introduced and being totally underwhelmed. I recall reading that the dashboard used that overlay top pad design because according to someone at GM, it helped hide assembly line problems better, which seemed like a strange thing to brag about. The exterior styling also seemed pretty generic. Of course, GM replaced it with the Impala, which had even worse styling.

I also had a GM 10 Regal coupe as a rental for a couple of weeks during a trip to Florida. Aside from the strange exterior door handles and oddball radio I rather liked it. There were just two of us though, so the rear seats were unused during that time.

uplanderguy · December 2022

I never got into digital instrumentation, which Chevy largely stayed away from (except '94 and later Caprices). That's the one thing I liked about the Lumina instrument panel. I liked too that they never offered wire wheel covers on them, as on the Regal. The cars were styled quite differently across the divisions, thankfully. Perhaps lesson learned from the A-body FWD's.

I remember the B,O,P GM-10's came out first, and with coupes only for a couple years. The Lumina came out for '90 and in a sedan first. Lumina coupes, I never got as a rental and seemed rare-on-the-ground, particularly in non-Euro form.

I remember late in that GM-10 run, the Regal Limited got red taillight bulbs and clear lenses. Considering how I'm wowed by that on certain '65 Chryslers, anything since that has them I don't care for. Lexus SUV's had them too I think. They look like the red lenses were broken out and all you're seeing is the internal chrome plastic, LOL.

ab348 · December 2022

uplanderguy said:
I remember late in that GM-10 run, the Regal Limited got red taillight bulbs and clear lenses. Considering how I'm wowed by that on certain '65 Chryslers, anything since that has them I don't care for. Lexus SUV's had them too I think. They look like the red lenses were broken out and all you're seeing is the internal chrome plastic, LOL.

Of course, that style of clear plastic taillight lenses with red innards was popularized by the "tuner" boyz in the late '90s - I think there were referred to generally as "Altezza" lenses but stand to be corrected on that. Hated them. The biggest OEM offender was Nissan who put them on the new 2002 Altima and the subsequent generation as well.

Michaell · December 2022

ab348 said:

uplanderguy said:
I remember late in that GM-10 run, the Regal Limited got red taillight bulbs and clear lenses. Considering how I'm wowed by that on certain '65 Chryslers, anything since that has them I don't care for. Lexus SUV's had them too I think. They look like the red lenses were broken out and all you're seeing is the internal chrome plastic, LOL.
Of course, that style of clear plastic taillight lenses with red innards was popularized by the "tuner" boyz in the late '90s - I think there were referred to generally as "Altezza" lenses but stand to be corrected on that. Hated them. The biggest OEM offender was Nissan who put them on the new 2002 Altima and the subsequent generation as well.

Altezza is correct - that was the JDM version of what we called the Lexus IS300.

texases · December 2022

Yeah, Nissan was a 'leader' in going after that look. Too bad. And now it's the black wheels. Oh well.

andre1969 · December 2022

Oddly, I liked the 2002 Altima, partly because those taillights made me think of a c1955-56 Dodge!

uplanderguy · December 2022

I like the 2002 Altima too. First, the styling and size seem right and less Japanese than earlier cars, and in fact I like the clear taillight lenses with chrome inside and red lenses inside the clear lenses.

The difference to me in late GM-10 Regals and later Lexus SUV's, is there's no red or any-other-color round lenses inside the clear lenses, and I see just lots of bright metal (like chrome) inside the clear lenses. Again, to me it's like the red lenses outside were broken out in an accident, leaving the inside of the fixtures visible.

While I don't love them, the Altima's are not terribly-unlike 2000-and-later Monte Carlo taillights.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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