A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

thecardoc3 · November 2022

So they tried to sell something that you didn't need and overlooked what they really should have recommended which would have made resetting the front actually necessary. The machine cannot see where the steering wheel is positioned, but it should at this point be centered (parallel with the dash) and locked. In this case it is turned slightly to the right, that's why the "steer ahead" is in red and shows 0.14 degrees to the right.

imidazol97 · November 2022

I have figured out from comments that you are right. Leaving the steering wheel slighly off center
to do the "old" measurements would give at least the two red blocks to wave in front of people and
make them think they need an alignment.

I had alredy decided if they said it needed alignment, my dealer would be doing it, better and cheaper.

I had one car aligned at the tire store and their guy's idea of aligning was to get it within the tolerances and slam, bam, he's done. The Chevy/Buick store sets it to the ideal setting based on experience, not just some close setting.

Luckily I saw the toe setting box in the middle was green and was in the middle of okay area. Since the car had been driving perfectly with no wiggles going from lane-to-lane on the cracks between concrete slabs on the interstate, I felt it was likely good.

thecardoc3 · December 2022

A shop owner/ technician that attends classes that I present posted this on a different forum.

"So, my service manager takes a call. Guy tells him that he has an electrical fault and he heard we can fix it. So, my SA ask him when he wants to drop it off and leave it. Then tells him it's 125 an hour testing diagnostic time. He goes into a rant, That's outrageous! I just had a guy spend 2 hours and he didn't charge me a thing. He told me to take it to you because he couldn't figure it out. My SA tells him to repeat his last line real slow and maybe he'd get it. He couldn't figure it out for free. I'll probably have a 1-star review tomorrow telling everyone I'm a rip off. Got to love this business."

roadburner · December 2022

The shop I use for repairing my vintage audio equipment charges a $75 diagnostic fee which is credited against any repair authorized by the customer. In any case, I don't mind being charged a diagnostic fee for my cars- credited against repairs or not, but I would be very upset If I got billed for 3-4 hours of diagnostic time without anything to show for it.

guitarzan · December 2022

roadburner said:
...but I would be very upset If I got billed for 3-4 hours of diagnostic time without anything to show for it.

Electronics - What a great industry.

I had a guitar amplifier and took it to a repair shop. This was in the early 90's so the money was worth a lot more than today, keep in mind. I think the shop took $65 up front, and then did the diagnosis. "There is burnt insulation on the transformer. Our policy is we only will do work to make the item like new. There is no new transformer available, so we will not repair it."

They handed the amp back to me and kept my money. Note they made a judgment not to do the requested repair after taking money. There is no way this can be legal!

I was looking for a replacement amp and a guy in a shop told me "Transformers do not go bad. Take it to this guy." I took it to the guy working out of his basement. He opened it up, replaced two power resistors that were burned up, popped in one tube. He charged me ridiculously little money for the repair.

Story two: I bought an amp at a good price. It worked fine but it had a squeal to it. I took it to a shop, paid them a diagnostic fee. They returned it. "There's nothing wrong." I take it home, plug it in, plug in the guitar, it is still squealing!

I took it back to them. They had first disconnected a circuit before testing it! They had disconnected the reverb circuit but the actual problem was that some joker installed a spring that was incorrect. The second time through they replaced this bad spring. That fix is a thirty second operation. And if they had first turned it on, heard the problem, and secondly disconnected the circuit, this would have immediately told them where the problem was.

thecardoc3 · December 2022

roadburner said:
The shop I use for repairing my vintage audio equipment charges a $75 diagnostic fee which is credited against any repair authorized by the customer. In any case, I don't mind being charged a diagnostic fee for my cars- credited against repairs or not, but I would be very upset If I got billed for 3-4 hours of diagnostic time without anything to show for it.

One practice that I employ is whatever documentation is used while performing diagnostics be it print-outs of trouble trees, schematics, oscilloscope captures, complete with hand written notes, and more is all handed to either the shop that brings me a difficult car or the actual vehicle owner. It's not unfair to say that the majority of what they take possession of is likely beyond their ability to make much sense out of, but it's all time stamped and it's theirs to do what they want to with it. (I also have copies of everything)

I can understand the perception of "not anything to show for it" if the time spent had not produced an answer yet, but that doesn't mean that the time spent should be pro-bono. There are problems that are so complex that three to four hours might not be enough to know for sure what the final answer is, especially if there have already been multiple issues identified that are contributory to the vehicle's overall condition but not necessarily the bottom line answer. I have done a resurrections of lightning strike victims that would be perfect examples of what I am referring to.

Any automotive shop that credits diagnostic work into the repair (like your A/E shop) is very likely making a long term mistake. It might serve them well at that moment with that individual customer but if the customer isn't paying for the diagnostic time, then the technician very likely isn't getting paid for the time that was invested. That's one of the reasons for the lack of qualified technicians in part because it destroys most of the incentive for someone to try to learn how to be an effective troubleshooter. (And that's without considering what the tooling itself costs)

benjaminh · December 2022

This mechanic says that what the manufacturer means by "life of the vehicle" is different from what we think of it. With good care and some luck we hope a vehicle might last 20 years and go over 200k, but after ten years and 150k the manufacturers don't care. So although vehicles say don't change your oil transmission fluid, you should anyway at 50k-100k, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM0YeYD66hQ

And related to that, I assumed that the timing chain on a Honda engine would last 200k, but maybe not....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wulDUkpokjY

benjaminh · December 2022

A teardown of an Ecoboost engine, with the mechanic talking about all of the possible failure areas. Jeeze. This is making me worry about our 1.5 liter Honda turbo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEF1xGifeLM&t=847s

benjaminh · December 2022

This guy critiques the Honda 1.5 turbo, which is in my wife's CR-V, showing how the parts are much lighter and less durable than found in the older Honda K-series 2.4, which is the engine in my Acura TLX. At first I was worried, but then realized that the 1.5 engines that have failed that he's talking have been modified to make much more power than the engine was designed for. Sounds like double or more the designed power. No wonder they are failing. A stock engine that isn't used for hot rodding is probably still durable....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZriQAEfJ6RY

PS Here's a somewhat comforting comment on the video from a guy claiming to be a former Honda tech....

"As a former Honda tech, and my expertise experience , I have seen lots of 1.5t’s with over 150,000 miles. I have seen several with 200,000 plus. Never had one issue. Have replaced several sets of injectors but that’s it. This 1.5t is for the commuter looking for fuel economy and reliability. What this engine is not is a performance engine in any way. Anybody who buys a Honda with a 1.5t for performance is not too smart. If performance is the goal then you need the 2.0 which is a more robust stronger internals...."

roadburner · December 2022

My Mazdaspeed3 had the Mazdaspeed Cold Air Intake as well as the relative mild Hypertech tune. It was making about 300 hp- 38 more hp than stock. Used oil analysis showed the engine to be in fine shape north of 152k miles. The consensus was that bumping the power past 300 hp required more robust internals. Having said all that, the only vehicles I plan on keeping past 150k miles are the Club Sport, the Wrangler, and-maybe-the Clubman.

guitarzan · December 2022

benjaminh said:
With good care and some luck we hope a vehicle might last 20 years and go over 200k, but after ten years and 150k the manufacturers don't care.

This is all right on.

When shopping I searched for used cars, certified vehicles and such. I estimated their value by depreciating them over about 100k miles knowing the reality. But the actual pricing in no way reflected this. Vehicles with 40k miles for example were not nearly discounted enough to be any sort of value.

My last experience saw a Toyota disintegrate from rust and age while the miles were kept low at about 110k.

Planned obsolescence never went away but it is in fact alive and well. In fact many models have seen their quality tank compared to yesteryear as the makers made these deliberate limits on how long the vehicle should last.

In contrast to the point of the videos, I would advise people to be financially smart. A reman tranny or other major repair may actually be of value over a new car payment. I had many repair hassles over years but it takes a lot of repairs to overcome the outgoing cash for a brand new vehicle. Fight the system and keep it as long as you can. Your savings and investment will thank you.

roadburner · December 2022

I've kept one car for 27 years and another for 20, but I do like to change up my newer car every 6-8 years. I rarely if ever buy a new car, preferring a 2-3 year old CPO. Cars are my main hobby, and I like to keep things interesting...

xwesx · December 2022

I agree.

thecardoc3 · December 2022

Thoughts?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CicvO7LOvdy/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=cb3b8c14-7297-4c02-93cb-054567328df4

guitarzan · December 2022

thecardoc3 said:
Thoughts?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CicvO7LOvdy/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=cb3b8c14-7297-4c02-93cb-054567328df4

He stated the rate. How much time does the job actually take to do? 2x the rate?

Complete lack of engineering design savvy & criminal treatment of technicians.

xwesx · December 2022

guitarzan said:
He stated the rate. How much time does the job actually take to do? 2x the rate? Complete lack of engineering design savvy & criminal treatment of technicians.

Possibly 2x the rate for someone who is fully experienced in the process and not pulled away for anything else. Based on the piles of things everywhere and the need for an AC recharge and cooling system, I think it would take a Joe like me 12-16 hours (not to mention the several pieces I would break and two or three bolts missing by the end).

What a joke.

thecardoc3 · December 2022

guitarzan said:

He stated the rate. How much time does the job actually take to do? 2x the rate?

Complete lack of engineering design savvy & criminal treatment of technicians.

7.7 hours, not including the diagnostics, refrigerant recovery, evacuation, and recharging of the AC. That adds about 2.5hours to the job.

roadburner · December 2022

Replacing an E23 7 Series heater core is equally-if not more-involved.

thecardoc3 · December 2022

xwesx said:
Based on the piles of things everywhere and the need for an AC recharge and cooling system, I think it would take a Joe like me 12-16 hours (not to mention the several pieces I would break and two or three bolts missing by the end).

What a joke.

With labor times like that they can't be very serious about addressing the shortage of qualified technicians, especially from the retaining them part of the equation. Everybody always raised concerns about a pay plan (flat rate) where the tech could turn more hours by working hard and being very efficient. The reality has always been if they didn't have that gravy work and only got warranty stuff like this, they would struggle to earn a livable wage. For many of these techs the gravy services are disappearing, and their daily reality is what that Toyota tech is dealing with.

xwesx · December 2022

thecardoc3 said:

With labor times like that they can't be very serious about addressing the shortage of qualified technicians, especially from the retaining them part of the equation. Everybody always raised concerns about a pay plan (flat rate) where the tech could turn more hours by working hard and being very efficient. The reality has always been if they didn't have that gravy work and only got warranty stuff like this, they would struggle to earn a livable wage. For many of these techs the gravy services are disappearing, and their daily reality is what that Toyota tech is dealing with.

Exactly. I mean, I get the point of the set hours on the warranty work, as everybody is equally concerned about "being ripped off." However, the time needs to be realistic. I mean, it should be like par in golf, right? Some people are going to be under, some are going to be at, and most are going to be over. If all holes were set at Par 1, I doubt most people would even bother trying!

The problem is, I think, that the time as it is being set is basically saying, "Okay, so this is what the exact problem is. Now, you're going to have to dig through all this sh...tuff to get that part out, so who's the most familiar with this particular model? You? Okay, get all the tools you'll need lined up, then we're going to time how long it takes for you to pull all the parts out and put them back in. Ready? GO! Wow; 4.3 hours! That's the time, then."

I would bet that the vast majority of the techs have never done this particular job on this particular model. So, even if they knew exactly what the problem was the moment the car came into the shop, there's still no way in heck they are going to get anywhere near the time... even the best of the best of the best... after factoring in the variables already discussed. There's just no reasonable way. It would be very discouraging to basically be told that you're not good enough every single time you tee up. You should feel good if you get a 4 on a Par 3, great if you get par, and like a million bucks if you manage a birdie or a hole in one!

guitarzan · December 2022

xwesx said:

The problem is, I think, that the time as it is being set is basically saying, "Okay, so this is what the exact problem is. Now, you're going to have to dig through all this sh...tuff to get that part out, so who's the most familiar with this particular model? You? Okay, get all the tools you'll need lined up, then we're going to time how long it takes for you to pull all the parts out and put them back in. Ready? GO! Wow; 4.3 hours! That's the time, then."

I am unsure, was it @thecardoc3 who iterated this, that the repair schedule is extrapolated from the time it takes to build clean, brand new, at the factory...?

thecardoc3 · December 2022

guitarzan said:

I am unsure, was it @thecardoc3 who iterated this, that the repair schedule is extrapolated from the time it takes to build clean, brand new, at the factory...?

Yes, I shared that a few years back, they don't do actual time studies. Many of the times are calculated by how long it takes the factory to build the vehicle. One of the other things that have been done is audit "flag times" to try and see how much time techs are supposed to have against certain repairs. As techs punch onto and off of jobs it can present a picture of how long it took them to do them. Unfortunately, it can paint incorrect pictures too such as being on a given job without recording time against it or having an apprentice assist with a job like this. The apprentice being hourly might not be tracked and so it then appears that the tech was much faster falsely.

thecardoc3 · January 2023

I was looking up a little information to try and answer the help request for the Jeep Liberty that the gages are acting up on after "the heater" was repaired.

Thoughts?

kyfdx · January 2023

thecardoc3 said:
I was looking up a little information to try and answer the help request for the Jeep Liberty that the gages are acting up on after "the heater" was repaired.

Thoughts?

8 hours labor to remove/replace the heater core?

thecardoc3 · January 2023

8 hours labor to remove/replace the heater core?

To replace the heater core, the entire dash has to be removed, which means removing the seats and the center console for access. Then the HVAC plenum assembly can be removed and then it must be disassembled to replace the heater core. This repair also requires the AC to be taken apart because the evaporator core is also inside the plenum assembly, so you have to include a recovery, evacuation and recharge of the AC system.

Just imagine only being paid 2.6hrs as a dealership technician doing this repair.

xwesx · January 2023

That's insane. It would take me 2.6 hours just to come to terms with the absurdity of accessing it!

That said, it seems like it would be pretty easy to damage a ground, solder connection, or a whole host of other possibles on my way to that core (while trying to hit that 2.6 hour goal). LOL

Sounds like a case of "you get what you pay for."

When the customer came back with complaint on the gauges, did the advisor ask, "But, is your heater working properly now?" Hahaha

thecardoc3 · January 2023

xwesx said:
That's insane. It would take me 2.6 hours just to come to terms with the absurdity of accessing it!

When the customer came back with complaint on the gauges, did the advisor ask, "But, is your heater working properly now?" Hahaha

In the dealership technician world, if the vehicle owner comes back with a problem that wasn't there before the work was done, the technician is expected to find the problem and fix it without any pay at all.

xwesx · January 2023

Curious. In my experience, they tend to say only one thing: "Cool story, bro." In other words, if there's no hard evidence that such was the case, then it must just be a coincidence.

Good to know these guys are standing by their work, though it does make the warranty pinch sting that much more.

thecardoc3 · January 2023

xwesx said:
Good to know these guys are standing by their work, though it does make the warranty pinch sting that much more.

It's been this way for decades and is not a cool story. When flat rate times were realistic it was always a carrot or the stick way to get paid. Techs were encouraged to work as efficiently as they could without making any mistakes. When they succeeded in cutting the times they made a bonus. If they took too long, they lost money. When a car came back for any reason, whether the technician made a mistake or not to prove goodwill to the vehicle owner the tech was not paid to take care of the vehicle unless the shop chose to make it right by the technician.

With unrealistic times warranty is a guaranteed loser for the technician. This puts us into the reason why there have been all of the cases of selling easier services. (wallet flushes) If the techs don't sell services and get to make easier hours and only do warranty repairs, they will struggle to make 25 to 30 hours a week. At that level of productivity they could have perfect quality in the work that they do but they would soon find themselves unemployed. Even today with the shortage of qualified technicians if they don't produce numbers they wont be viewed as worth keeping.

thecardoc3 · January 2023

This might be worth keeping an eye on.
https://www.businesslend.com/automobile/technician-accuses-honda-store-of-age-discrimination-retaliation/

jipster · February 2023

@thecardoc3 said:
This might be worth keeping an eye on.
https://www.businesslend.com/automobile/technician-accuses-honda-store-of-age-discrimination-retaliation/

The Honda technician released was only 43.
Sounds like the new dealership is just wanting to cut costs and have the new guys do things their way...which may or may not be underhanded.

thecardoc3 · February 2023

jipster said:

The Honda technician released was only 43.

Sounds like the new dealership is just wanting to cut costs and have the new guys do things their way...which may or may not be underhanded.

The 43 year old is the one who has filed a lawsuit. There is a typo in this quote so it's not clear how many other senior technicians were also terminated.

It alleges the present dealership, North Hollywood Honda, terminated or compelled the resignation of a couple of dozen of its 16 to twenty technicians, most of them over 40, after it acquired the shop final June.

“Shortly after the defendants purchased the dealership, management and ownership implemented new policies and procedures that had a discriminatory effect on its older workforce, specifically the service technicians,” the criticism mentioned.

That included 43-year-old Malodonado, who was discharged final October.

“After each termination, the defendants then hired much younger, less experienced and lower-paid technicians to replace the ones it had fired,” in line with the go well with. “Many, if not all, of the newly hired technicians were under the age of 30,” and a few allegedly lacked the “proper certification and/or license to perform some of the tasks assigned to them.”

thecardoc3 · February 2023

Better late than never I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TzscpQWfFao

thecardoc3 · March 2023

One step forward, from a FB group......

The local Audi dealership which shall remain unnamed (although if you know where Wxxxxxxxx is you could easily figure it out) has stopped selling parts to independent repair shops. They have cut us all off completely. Their reason is they need to concentrate on their own customers and their technicians deserve 100% attention from their parts department. The parts manager claims that outside wholesale sales have become an annoyance. That’s what he told me when I asked to speak with him. He let me know that it wasn’t his decision, and he gave me a recommendation for another dealership that they’ve been sending their wholesale clients to. Hopefully this business plan doesn’t catch on.

It’s not the end of the world or even a game changer. Audi is only about 10% of my business and from that a very small percentage of my purchases come from a dealership. My supply chain is solid but occasionally I may need a part that is dealer only. There are other Audi dealerships that are happy to take over their wholesale accounts. I spoke with the one in Wxxxxxxd today and was treated with respect and open arms. Unfortunately, the dealership that is closer to me and more convenient was bought by a conglomerate that owns nine dealerships, all different brands. The orders came from up the ladder and the parts department has their hands tied.

xwesx · March 2023

Well, that's interesting. I cannot understand why wholesale activity would put undue pressure on the parts department; they must be doing a LOT of wholesale activity! LOL

I try to use FCP Euro or ECS Tuning for my OE Audi parts needs, but I I suppose there are times when you have to get inside the manufacturer network for something. Thankfully, for my needs, it is rare.

andres3 · March 2023

xwesx said:
Well, that's interesting. I cannot understand why wholesale activity would put undue pressure on the parts department; they must be doing a LOT of wholesale activity! LOL

I try to use FCP Euro or ECS Tuning for my OE Audi parts needs, but I I suppose there are times when you have to get inside the manufacturer network for something. Thankfully, for my needs, it is rare.

Could be why my control module hasn't come in yet; or my shop forgot to call me to pickup.

roadburner · March 2023

xwesx said:
Well, that's interesting. I cannot understand why wholesale activity would put undue pressure on the parts department; they must be doing a LOT of wholesale activity! LOL

I try to use FCP Euro or ECS Tuning for my OE Audi parts needs, but I I suppose there are times when you have to get inside the manufacturer network for something. Thankfully, for my needs, it is rare.

I use FCP Euro or the BMW Mini Part Store quite a bit- although my local BMW dealer is usually helpful. usually patronize the BMW Mini Parts or the local dealer since I have nearly $1k of BMW Rewards cards that I can redeem. That said, sometimes the price delta is too great, such as when I needed coils and plugs for the Clubman- I bought Bosch coils and plugs from FCP Euro for $125.42; Genuine Mini parts would have cost $334.45.

andres3 · March 2023

My central control module came in. Car's back to normal. Shop said something about it being a "female dog" to recode the car due to anti-theft type stuff.

Verdict - when they opened the old module it was full of water and corroded. It's been raining like Seattle in San Diego this Winter.

Not 100%, but we suspect the non-OEM windshield with Chinese lettering on it to be the culprit (or at least a bad seal around the cheap Chinese glass).

thecardoc3 · March 2023

andres3 said:
My central control module came in.
Verdict - when they opened the old module it was full of water and corroded.

Not 100%, but we suspect the non-OEM windshield with Chinese lettering on it to be the culprit (or at least a bad seal around the cheap Chinese glass).

Does your car have a sunroof? If so check to see if the drains are clogged.

andres3 · March 2023

thecardoc3 said:

andres3 said:
My central control module came in.
Verdict - when they opened the old module it was full of water and corroded.

Not 100%, but we suspect the non-OEM windshield with Chinese lettering on it to be the culprit (or at least a bad seal around the cheap Chinese glass).
Does your car have a sunroof? If so check to see if the drains are clogged.

They looked at that, they didn't see evidence of it and they said that those sunroof drains being clogged usually affects the headliner and other areas?? Does that makes sense?

thecardoc3 · March 2023

xwesx said:
Well, that's interesting. I cannot understand why wholesale activity would put undue pressure on the parts department; they must be doing a LOT of wholesale activity! LOL

It is a bit of a stretch to think that it's because they are concerned about servicing their technician's parts needs. The majority of dealership technicians today look up the parts themselves. It's generally faster for them to do it themselves. It's far more likely that they want to limit access to parts for the aftermarket shops in the hope that it eventually forces the work back to their own bays.

thecardoc3 · April 2023

Watch this podcast. Then define "a fair price".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD_y5zhZLaI

thecardoc3 · April 2023

This one, hardly know what to say.

andres3 · April 2023

Just to close the loop; the whole left side of the windshield was COMPLETELY unbonded. No need for a spray and bubble test, once the trim was removed, it was easy to push and pull the windshield on the left side; the side nearer to that flooded out control module.

I was told the windshield is a structural component of the safety system and crash protection in the car; those mobile shops could be killing people doing installs like this.

thecardoc3 · June 2023

More of the same old story. The first thing that caught my eye was the tech not wearing eye protection.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/auto-shops-struggling-find-trained-mechanics-amid-national-shortage-really-getting-scary?fbclid=IwAR0L7DOvf6wwcukzg4Q-HiZnKfTKmz4uo4sOeyitwJ9uafB4ntyFiCZl_mA

guitarzan · June 2023

thecardoc3 said:
More of the same old story.

COMMENT:
"That is just at the bottom rung of the ladder.

For the past 25 years plus, there has been a shortage of all levels of Mechanical and Electromechanical Engineers, especially in high tech R&D."

Someone close to me was just reading from the news. Now I am in the Midwest. We are losing people. There has been massive migration to the Sunbelt. Then the baby boomers are retiring. The workforce is shrinking. While many corporations are international and are doing nothing but growing, work for skilled people is abundant, but it is difficult to fill the roles. Post-major disease people decided they were going to work from home and there has been a significant exodus from all traditional companies who state, "We built our business on collaboration and we should be together in person."

Great Reset? Uh just wait. Things will reset several more times, and severely. There is no planning whatsoever for all for all of these factors, just reaction.

I called my dealer recently and left a voicemail to the service rep I was directed to. "My Outback has 12,000 miles and I think the heat shields are rattling. Do you have a fix, and is it pricey/cheap?" I received no call back, from one of the largest dealerships around. I followed up with the conglomerate's online support, who promised to follow up with the dealership. I have received no response. In 2023? Really? I have an AMEX burning a hole in my pocket and just want things done.

@thecardoc3 just bought a TS601. Tire pressure is just a wonderful proprietary thing isn't it? The national chain wanted $90 to relearn the sensors after I swapped wheels myself. Independents want $60. I asked my highly trusted guy and he talked about how complex it is (?). Not according to the Subaru forums... The dealership ironically is the only deal on this service at $25, but I cannot see going to them just for TPMS reset, so I made the lifetime investment.

roadburner · June 2023

I have a few dealers and a couple of independents that I trust implicitly; as a result I end up limiting myself to a handful of vehicle brands. I'm fine with that; I don't have to worry about the quality of the service I receive.

thecardoc3 · June 2023

The TS 601 is a nice tool. My primary tool right now is the TS508 which I got "for free" with the purchase of eight sensors. The 508 became the third TPMS tool in my box, with the first being a Snap-On tool from the late 90's that was almost useless but still cost over $700. The second tool was purchased around 2004 and worked well through 2015 but didn't do any retraining. It only did activations for position relearns during servicing. I had to rely on scan tools for replacing sensors. I do have a 601 but I have never taken it out of the box. It was a door prize for one of the conventions I taught at late last year.

There are a lot of systems that automatically relearn the new positions when the tires are rotated today. Subaru as far as I can tell (up to 2020) doesn't appear to have adopted that ability yet. But it is getting to be more common so maybe the newest cars might be able to do it.

xwesx · June 2023

I probably need to get one of those. I usually don't have TPMS sensors added to my wheels, but I had a place a couple years ago that required me to get them. I now have all of these sets of wheels with TPMS sensors in them, and, as far as the cars know, they might as well not have them at all.

guitarzan · June 2023

xwesx said:
I probably need to get one of those.

https://www.auteltool.us/products/autel-maxitpms-ts601

I just purchased it here at a large discount over Amazon and everywhere, and oddly they just reduced it $10 more. I originally had some concern over the pricing, the site does everything to appear like Autel or an authorized distributor, but is not on Autel's site as such, and the receipt showed a Chinese company. I did however receive the unit within a couple of days and all went well.

A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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