Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

explorerx4 · July 2023

Back from the OBX(Hatteras). round trip over 1500 miles. Took us 14 1/2 hours to get back yesterday.
A couple of pics,
Turtles come ashore from the ocean on the left, so off limits. The bay is to the right.
I think this is one of the places you could get out of your car and throw a ball into the ocean from the road, then turn around in the same spot and throw a ball into the bay.

Here's a view from our rental house. Not on the ocean but not far, maybe 3 minute walk, plus it had a nice pool(vacation saver).
Beach was really hot and water was too rough for the grandkids and grand niece.
House was a typical rental, kind of worn, some things didn't work, but worked out well overall.

Michaell · July 2023

From Peter DeLorenzo, in this week's AutoExtremist column:

That the “Grand Transition” has devolved into a BEV Zealots vs. ICE Realists dance of antagonistic sparring is about as surprising as the Tigers flailing once again through another lost season. The BEV Zealots want to “flip the switch” and are generally intolerant of those who can’t see the EV light, wielding their pitchforks whenever they want to make their point. Much of their ardor is based on the fact that BEVs – at least on the surface – are much cleaner than ICE vehicles, conveniently forgetting where and how the electricity is generated in the first place. BEV Zealots are touting China as the BEV nirvana, because sales of BEVs are exploding over there. But again, they’re conveniently forgetting that China’s rapid BEV adoption is fueled by rampant use of coal, which is making their air even more unsafe, and unsafe for the world too. On the other hand, ICE realists are often inflexible and quick to dismiss EVs – in their present early stage of development – as a dead-end because of the limited infrastructure available, the limited range, and the limited charging speeds, discounting the fact that improvements to every aspect of the BEV equation will be constant and rapid. The High-Octane Truth about this battle between these opposing factions is that they both have forgotten one fundamental aspect of life: And that is things are rarely cut and dried or in hard-edged black & white, but in reality, are played out in the vast gray area of “the in-between.” Yes, BEVs are coming, that fact is indisputable. But rapid development in zero-carbon fuels and even hydrogen mean that ICE vehicles will be around for a long, long time to come.

stickguy · July 2023

An ICE breakthrough to run on a different fuel, that can be cleanly produced and easily distributed, is really imo the holy cup grail. Much easier transition!

Now just need the fuel…

Probably easier to hope for the breakthrough on batteries made from sand.

kyfdx · July 2023

Yeah, those Hydrogen vehicles are right around the corner..

jmonroe1 · July 2023

@stickguy said:
An ICE breakthrough to run on a different fuel, that can be cleanly produced and easily distributed, is really imo the holy cup grail. Much easier transition!

Now just need the fuel…

Probably easier to hope for the breakthrough on batteries made from sand.

————————————————
I’m still waiting for the family sedan that can run on water once you plop in a magical pill.

I’m beginning to think my lights will go out before that hits the market.

jmonroe

roadburner · July 2023

@Michaell said:
From Peter DeLorenzo, in this week's AutoExtremist column:

That the “Grand Transition” has devolved into a BEV Zealots vs. ICE Realists dance of antagonistic sparring is about as surprising as the Tigers flailing once again through another lost season. The BEV Zealots want to “flip the switch” and are generally intolerant of those who can’t see the EV light, wielding their pitchforks whenever they want to make their point. Much of their ardor is based on the fact that BEVs – at least on the surface – are much cleaner than ICE vehicles, conveniently forgetting where and how the electricity is generated in the first place. BEV Zealots are touting China as the BEV nirvana, because sales of BEVs are exploding over there. But again, they’re conveniently forgetting that China’s rapid BEV adoption is fueled by rampant use of coal, which is making their air even more unsafe, and unsafe for the world too. On the other hand, ICE realists are often inflexible and quick to dismiss EVs – in their present early stage of development – as a dead-end because of the limited infrastructure available, the limited range, and the limited charging speeds, discounting the fact that improvements to every aspect of the BEV equation will be constant and rapid. The High-Octane Truth about this battle between these opposing factions is that they both have forgotten one fundamental aspect of life: And that is things are rarely cut and dried or in hard-edged black & white, but in reality, are played out in the vast gray area of “the in-between.” Yes, BEVs are coming, that fact is indisputable. But rapid development in zero-carbon fuels and even hydrogen mean that ICE vehicles will be around for a long, long time to come.

I read that as well. I believe he’s spot on.

andres3 · July 2023

venture said:
My son backed into his brothers-in-laws car a little over 2 months ago.

His Land Rover has been in the body shop ever since. He said they had to order parts from England. As I understand the mess, if a wrong part came in, they had to wait for his insurance company to approve sending it back to get the correct part. A total nightmare so far.

To top it off, he had to extend his lease for 6 months because it was going to end. He said he will probably just let it sit until the 6 months is up since he is way over on miles anyway. The way it's going it may still be in the body shop then.

I never realized with a lease you are on the hook for an extension if someone crashes into you right before lease end. WOW. You can't just tell them the car is where the 2nd Key FOB is and you'll recover it in due time?

oldfarmer50 · July 2023

graphicguy said:
I keep seeing (and hearing about) Stelantis brands and dealerships....Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram being way overloaded on inventory. While most other brands are still a bit light on inventory. I watch YT vids and some say it's because of pricing. I haven't set foot on a Chrysler/Jeep lot in probably 3-4 years. Have their products got up that much? Anyone have any experience trying to buy any of their vehicles?

I see YT videos where the creator shows absurd market adjustments on a lot of different brands. Any dealer still charging ADMs or including charges for silly stuff like Nitrogen tire fill is living in fantasy land. They are missing coming changes in the market to their peril.

The change became apparent at work today where we were instructed to pull any car with more than 38k miles out of service so they could be sold off. Since 2021 we had been holding cars until 60k miles before selling them. Now we’re getting close to the pre pandemic average. This should be good for pushing used car prices down as a flood of cars hit the market.

Heavens help dealers who still try to gouge the public.

stickguy · July 2023

they will gauge until the absolutely last possible minute.

imidazol97 · July 2023

stickguy said:
they will gauge until the absolutely last possible minute.

X2
Their logic is that a sucker is born every minute, and they intend to take advantage of them.

stickguy · July 2023

question for all you ~~know it alls~~ people that know everything. If you were putting in an HVAC system from scratch (including the house it is being installed in, so truly from scratch wiring, venting, etc. all being new), how much extra should it cost to upgrade a system to an electronic dual-zone damper system? The set-up where you have 1 furnace and AC unit, but a 2nd thermostat upstairs, with a control box and electronic damper valves in some of the vents.

not sure if anyone has real experience or at least good ballpark guess? I know it makes more sense to call an HVAC company, but they have an annoying tendency to want to actually look at the job!

tjc78 · July 2023

That’s exactly what I have in my house. If I look up the zone controller from Honeywell it is $143, and the dampers are $138 with the actuator. You’ll need at least two of the those and an extra thermostat and wiring.

Let’s say $600 in parts, and at least that in labor plus GC markup.

I’d say minimum of $1500. I’m not sure how much more work there is in the actual ducting but that could also drive up the price.

tjc78 · July 2023

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Home-HZ311-TrueZONE-HZ311-Panel

cdnpinhead · July 2023

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they will gouge until the absolutely last possible minute.
X2
Their logic is that a sucker is born every minute, and they intend to take advantage of them.

Works every time it's tried.

stickguy · July 2023

tjc78 said:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Home-HZ311-TrueZONE-HZ311-Panel

thanks. That looks a lot like the unit in my basement. My current house actually has this configuration and we like it. We are looking at a new build and the builder quoted us on upgrading to the same thing. But the price was way higher than I expected. Especially since it would all be a new install (no kind of retrofitting). So the extra labor I assume has to be minimal (different parts, mostly the same job, so what, a few extra hours labor?)

the google search I did came up with an estimate range. I think it was $1,500-2,200 or so which seemed about what I would have expected.

sda · July 2023

How much more for two separate systems? The damper set up doesn't always work well during temperature extremes. A plus to two systems is if one breaks down you still have the other to give some relief

kyfdx · July 2023

sda said:
How much more for two separate systems? The damper set up doesn't always work well during temperature extremes. A plus to two systems is if one breaks down you still have the other to give some relief

$9K+

qbrozen · August 2023

@graphicguy said:
I keep seeing (and hearing about) Stelantis brands and dealerships....Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram being way overloaded on inventory. While most other brands are still a bit light on inventory. I watch YT vids and some say it's because of pricing. I haven't set foot on a Chrysler/Jeep lot in probably 3-4 years. Have their products got up that much? Anyone have any experience trying to buy any of their vehicles?

From my limited experience and knowledge, Stellantis has not had the same shortages as others. No idea why. I don’t think it has been a lack of sales because they couldn’t keep certain vehicles in stock. Could be things like 4xe and Scat Packs were flying off the shelves while standard models lingered. Again, not sure here. I would also theorize that their PHEV models have made a significant impact on sales of lesser trims. When, after incentives, you can get a quicker and more fuel efficient model for less money, why would you accept the alternative?

ALSO, Dodge dealers are holding their cars like they are gold since “this is your last chance to get one!”

graphicguy · August 2023

I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?

graphicguy · August 2023

Just dug the bit of swag out of my desk!

qbrozen · August 2023

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?

As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.

abacomike · August 2023

Gasoline is again getting up there in cost. Filled up at Costco yesterday with PUG @ $3.85.9 per gallon. That’s the highest it’s been in quite some time, with no end in sight through the summer. Definitely going to feed inflation increases.

Reinvested 2 CD’s at 5.25% with 6 month terms. If the FED doesn’t get inflation down significantly, I think we’ll be in big trouble next year.

graphicguy · August 2023

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?
As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.

OK....that makes sense. Was looking at the local Jeep store and they showed 106 GC in stock. I had misread and thought it was Wranglers.

Again, not paying all the close attention and just going from YT vids about rising stocks of Ram/Jeep models, I THOUGHT it was mentioned that Stelantis is offering huge rebates on those brands. Yes? No?

Michaell · August 2023

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?
As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.
OK....that makes sense. Was looking at the local Jeep store and they showed 106 GC in stock. I had misread and thought it was Wranglers.

Again, not paying all the close attention and just going from YT vids about rising stocks of Ram/Jeep models, I THOUGHT it was mentioned that Stelantis is offering huge rebates on those brands. Yes? No?

Ram trucks have had decent lease incentives on them for a while for the lower trim levels.

The only Jeeps with incentives are the 4xe models - generally $7500 pass through and an incentive on top of that.

houdini1 · August 2023

jmonroe1 said:

@stickguy said:

An ICE breakthrough to run on a different fuel, that can be cleanly produced and easily distributed, is really imo the holy cup grail. Much easier transition!

Now just need the fuel…

Probably easier to hope for the breakthrough on batteries made from sand.

————————————————

I’m still waiting for the family sedan that can run on water once you plop in a magical pill.

I’m beginning to think my lights will go out before that hits the market.

jmonroe

At least the rising sea levels won't get us !

oldfarmer50 · August 2023

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?
As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.

My company has a few of those Jeeps. When they are selling to rental companies you know there is a surplus.

qbrozen · August 2023

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?
As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.
My company has a few of those Jeeps. When they are selling to rental companies you know there is a surplus.

They have PHEVs? Seems odd for a rental company. Do they loan out the charging cord with it?

tjc78 · August 2023

Avis has Jeep Wrangler 4XE as well. I’ve had one. It had zero charge and I didn’t see a cord.

oldfarmer50 · August 2023

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?
As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.
My company has a few of those Jeeps. When they are selling to rental companies you know there is a surplus.
They have PHEVs? Seems odd for a rental company. Do they loan out the charging cord with it?

The ones I saw were Wrangler 4xe. We also have pure electric vehicles. Hertz has more than we do.

I was told that if you rent an electric only vehicle you don’t have to return it charged. I don’t know if there are fees for us recharging it. Occasionally renters run them out of charge and then call the company demanding we charge them up for them as if we could deliver a bucket of electrons.

ronsteve · August 2023

@houdini1 said:
At least the rising sea levels won't get us !

Low tide vs high tide can be a few feet of difference, so without exact time stamps I don’t think the two pics prove or disprove anything.

jmonroe1 · August 2023

houdini1 said:

jmonroe1 said:

@stickguy said:

An ICE breakthrough to run on a different fuel, that can be cleanly produced and easily distributed, is really imo the holy cup grail. Much easier transition!

Now just need the fuel…

Probably easier to hope for the breakthrough on batteries made from sand.

————————————————

I’m still waiting for the family sedan that can run on water once you plop in a magical pill.

I’m beginning to think my lights will go out before that hits the market.

jmonroe

At least the rising sea levels won't get us !

————————————————
I doubt Lady Liberty will have to brush up on her swimming skills in the foreseeable future.

jmonroe

tjc78 · August 2023

The tide rises and falls in the harbor pretty noticeably as there are several cruise ships that can only leave at low tide in order to clear the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

ronsteve · August 2023

tjc78 said:
The tide rises and falls in the harbor pretty noticeably as there are several cruise ships that can only leave at low tide in order to clear the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

Today's tide range at The Battery is over 6 feet from high to low.

jmonroe1 · August 2023

ronsteve said:

tjc78 said:
The tide rises and falls in the harbor pretty noticeably as there are several cruise ships that can only leave at low tide in order to clear the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

Today's tide range at The Battery is over 6 feet from high to low.

————————————————
I realize there are high and low tides everyday and it differs throughout the year. But, until Lady Liberty’s ankles get wet she won’t need swimming lessons.

jmonroe

ronsteve · August 2023

jmonroe1 said:

ronsteve said:

tjc78 said:
The tide rises and falls in the harbor pretty noticeably as there are several cruise ships that can only leave at low tide in order to clear the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

Today's tide range at The Battery is over 6 feet from high to low.
————————————————
I realize there are high and low tides everyday and it differs throughout the year. But, until Lady Liberty’s ankles get wet she won’t need swimming lessons.

jmonroe

Given that her ankles are at least 150 feet above ground level (probably at least 160 above current MSL, which is up about a foot), we would be in deep trouble long before getting to that point, so I don't think that should be the basis for urgency (or lack of it).

oldfarmer50 · August 2023

tjc78 said:
The tide rises and falls in the harbor pretty noticeably as there are several cruise ships that can only leave at low tide in order to clear the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

We have tides on the Hudson as far north as Troy. Also 6 feet.

jmonroe1 · August 2023

ronsteve said:

jmonroe1 said:

ronsteve said:

tjc78 said:
The tide rises and falls in the harbor pretty noticeably as there are several cruise ships that can only leave at low tide in order to clear the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

Today's tide range at The Battery is over 6 feet from high to low.
————————————————
I realize there are high and low tides everyday and it differs throughout the year. But, until Lady Liberty’s ankles get wet she won’t need swimming lessons.

jmonroe
Given that her ankles are at least 150 feet above ground level (probably at least 160 above current MSL, which is up about a foot), we would be in deep trouble long before getting to that point, so I don't think that should be the basis for urgency (or lack of it).

————————————————
You’re very observant but that is the baseline I choose to use.

jmonroe

graphicguy · August 2023

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?
As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.
OK....that makes sense. Was looking at the local Jeep store and they showed 106 GC in stock. I had misread and thought it was Wranglers.

Again, not paying all the close attention and just going from YT vids about rising stocks of Ram/Jeep models, I THOUGHT it was mentioned that Stelantis is offering huge rebates on those brands. Yes? No?
Ram trucks have had decent lease incentives on them for a while for the lower trim levels.

The only Jeeps with incentives are the 4xe models - generally $7500 pass through and an incentive on top of that.

Hmmmmm…interesting. What’s the incentives on top of the $7,500? I must be way out of touch these days. What do you mean by “pass through”?

kyfdx · August 2023

graphicguy said:

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:
I thought the Hybrid JEEPS would be a big seller, but apparently not?
As far as I know, they are. Well, the wranglers were. Almost all pre-orders for the first 2 years. I'm not sure about the JGCs since I didn't pay attention.
OK....that makes sense. Was looking at the local Jeep store and they showed 106 GC in stock. I had misread and thought it was Wranglers.

Again, not paying all the close attention and just going from YT vids about rising stocks of Ram/Jeep models, I THOUGHT it was mentioned that Stelantis is offering huge rebates on those brands. Yes? No?
Ram trucks have had decent lease incentives on them for a while for the lower trim levels.

The only Jeeps with incentives are the 4xe models - generally $7500 pass through and an incentive on top of that.
Hmmmmm…interesting. What’s the incentives on top of the $7,500? I must be way out of touch these days. What do you mean by “pass through”?

The tax credit goes to the leasing bank. They pass through the tax credit in the form of a taxable rebate.

Additional incentives vary by trim and location.

graphicguy · August 2023

Had the wonderful opportunity to visit Alaska last year. The glacier(s) retreat due to global warming is very real and quite noticeable there. Its effects can and will be catastrophic. I know you guys are jesting when you say NY isn’t effected. But, it will be…maybe not in our oldster lifetimes, but probably sooner than later.

graphicguy · August 2023

Had an interesting encounter on the road last evening about 7-ish. There's a good sized park not far from where I live. It used to be a Voice of America broadcast center with large antennae all over the place. The Broadcast building is still there as a museum, but they took the adding land and made it a park. I like walking there.

The main road to it is always busy. So, I took the side roads on the way home.

I wasn't driving more than about 30 MPH but was coming up on a car pretty fast. The car showed no brake lights so I thought it was moving, but very slowly. As I got closer, it became clear it was stopped in the middle of the road.

Stopped behind the car. After about 10 seconds I honked. No movement and no response from inside the car that I could tell. I thought it had been abandoned. Not wanting anyone to hit it (or me), I pulled to the side of the road behind the car and put on my flashers.

Got to the driver's window, which was down. Guy was slumped over, head on his chest. I thought "OMG...this guy is dead". I shook his shoulder a little bit and he aroused. He opened his eyes, turned his head towards me, and oh boy, did he smell of liquor. I asked if he was OK. He was unintelligible. I asked him if he lived close....he was still unintelligible. I asked him if he needed a ride home...again, couldn't make heads or tails of what he was saying other than to leave him alone. Told him I was going to call the police unless he gave me his keys and told me who to call to get him home. He told me to "F-off"!

Alright.

Called the police. Stuck around behind him with my flashers on so he wouldn't get hit, and no one coming up on him would rear end him. Explained the situation to them and where I was. They were quick....about 5 mins. I guess the lights on the police car got him awake. He got belligerent with the policeman. Back up arrived about 5 minutes after that. Back up thanked me and took my info. Said if they needed a witness they may contact me. I didn't need to see the rest.

Was driving away and saw them drag him from the car and face planting him on the pavement.

I kind of wanted to stick around and watch the rest. But, I always make fun of gawkers who slow down around accident scenes. Didn't want to be one of them.

Came home and poured myself a bourbon.

28firefighter · August 2023

I’m sure he only had one drink and it was hours ago!

tjc78 · August 2023

If he would have only listened to you…..

We had a similar situation here a few weeks back. Guy was clearly v e r y over served at the restaurant on the bay a few doors up from me. He was staggering and ready to fall at any moment.

I came down from the porch and offered a ride home. He declined. So I watched him walk up the street and he fell … hard. I told my neighbor to follow me up on his golf cart. I picked him up and dragged him to the cart and after a few minutes he came to and gave us his address (2 blocks away). We drove him home. Thankfully he was smart enough not to drive.

kyfdx · August 2023

No way I would want to put that guy in my car.. I would have probably called the police immediately.

qbrozen · August 2023

graphicguy said:
Had an interesting encounter on the road last evening about 7-ish. There's a good sized park not far from where I live. It used to be a Voice of America broadcast center with large antennae all over the place. The Broadcast building is still there as a museum, but they took the adding land and made it a park. I like walking there.

The main road to it is always busy. So, I took the side roads on the way home.

I wasn't driving more than about 30 MPH but was coming up on a car pretty fast. The car showed no brake lights so I thought it was moving, but very slowly. As I got closer, it became clear it was stopped in the middle of the road.

Stopped behind the car. After about 10 seconds I honked. No movement and no response from inside the car that I could tell. I thought it had been abandoned. Not wanting anyone to hit it (or me), I pulled to the side of the road behind the car and put on my flashers.

Got to the driver's window, which was down. Guy was slumped over, head on his chest. I thought "OMG...this guy is dead". I shook his shoulder a little bit and he aroused. He opened his eyes, turned his head towards me, and oh boy, did he smell of liquor. I asked if he was OK. He was unintelligible. I asked him if he lived close....he was still unintelligible. I asked him if he needed a ride home...again, couldn't make heads or tails of what he was saying other than to leave him alone. Told him I was going to call the police unless he gave me his keys and told me who to call to get him home. He told me to "F-off"!

Alright.

Called the police. Stuck around behind him with my flashers on so he wouldn't get hit, and no one coming up on him would rear end him. Explained the situation to them and where I was. They were quick....about 5 mins. I guess the lights on the police car got him awake. He got belligerent with the policeman. Back up arrived about 5 minutes after that. Back up thanked me and took my info. Said if they needed a witness they may contact me. I didn't need to see the rest.

Was driving away and saw them drag him from the car and face planting him on the pavement.

I kind of wanted to stick around and watch the rest. But, I always make fun of gawkers who slow down around accident scenes. Didn't want to be one of them.

Came home and poured myself a bourbon.

Good man.

I'm kind of clueless when it comes to that stuff. I probably would have gotten aggravated and just drove around the car without a second thought.

28firefighter · August 2023

@kyfdx said:
No way I would want to put that guy in my car.. I would have probably called the police immediately.

Yep. I think I’d have done the same. For two reasons:

(1) People do crazy things when they’re intox and you don’t know who is carrying what if they get agitated or wake up disoriented.

(2) Severe head trauma does not always seem that severe until it is. If I see you fall and hit your head, you’re getting checked out by paramedics.

Buuuuut I’ve seen the outer limits of crazy stuff, so I’m cynical about it.

ab348 · August 2023

graphicguy said:
Had the wonderful opportunity to visit Alaska last year. The glacier(s) retreat due to global warming is very real and quite noticeable there. Its effects can and will be catastrophic. I know you guys are jesting when you say NY isn’t effected. But, it will be…maybe not in our oldster lifetimes, but probably sooner than later.

That was on your cruise?

Oh, the irony.

graphicguy · August 2023

kyfdx said:
No way I would want to put that guy in my car.. I would have probably called the police immediately.

I thought about that afterwards. There’s all sorts of things that could have gone wrong. What if he would have started “stuff” in my car while I was taking him home? As they say, the path that leads to hell is paved with good intentions.
I even sort of felt guilty for calling the cops on him. All I’ve ever heard is that DUI/OVI cost bunches of money to defend, insurance rates go through the roof, and while I”m not certain of the punishments, I’ll assume he will have to do some sort of incarceration.

On the other hand, he was in no way capable of driving based on what I saw.

kyfdx · August 2023

Passed out in the middle of the road? Not his first time. That’s top-level drinking/driving. I’d be surprised if he even had a valid license.

stickguy · August 2023

And you would have felt worse if you didn’t call, and he woke up and drove off, running over a kid.

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