Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

kyfdx · February 7

28firefighter said:
Surely someone here wants this:
https://www.autotrader.com/marketplace/buy/bmw/3-series/2007/WBAVS13577FV95091?fbclid=IwAR07fsFxUh7acgbuNafuUVsOfUlkcM4YLkDaU-gFPRn_fluQPmO7qG1i-C0

I can't stomach the eyebrow look from '06-'07. They fixed it in '08 with the same front as the coupe.

roadburner · February 7

I've been hearing about a G6x M560e PHEV with 565 horsepower and 590 pound-feet of torque. If Munich were to drop that powertrain into a 3er I might be able to look past the terrible IP displays and non-intuitive controls.

stickguy · February 7

I wouldn’t. To me, extra HP beyond what I would ever use is not worth having a car that I did not like driving. That would annoy me every time I was in it.

corvette · February 7

Finally got the Maverick back today. The estimator with the sour attitude was nowhere to be seen and a different estimator's name appeared on the final invoice. There is what looks like a small factory casting mark protruding on that part of the bumper, but the clear coat drip (with air bubbles in it) is gone. Everything else looks OK. They put about half a dozen vanilla air fresheners inside. I'd have rather smelled the paint fumes, which I'm sure are still there, just being covered up by the air fresheners. I left the windows cracked to try to air it out.

sda · February 7

corvette said:
Finally got the Maverick back today. The estimator with the sour attitude was nowhere to be seen and a different estimator's name appeared on the final invoice. There is what looks like a small factory casting mark protruding on that part of the bumper, but the clear coat drip (with air bubbles in it) is gone. Everything else looks OK. They put about half a dozen vanilla air fresheners inside. I'd have rather smelled the paint fumes, which I'm sure are still there, just being covered up by the air fresheners. I left the windows cracked to try to air it out.

Did they replace the entire front bumper cover? Was it painted on the vehicle? When the front bumper cover on our TL was replaced, it was painted separately from the car and attached afterwards. We didn't experience any paint fumes.

corvette · February 7

The bumper cover was repaired and reused. If it were new, I would have had a good argument that they should have filed off the casting marks prior to painting it. They took it off the vehicle to paint it, so I'm clueless on the air fresheners. It had a nice, clean, new-ish car smell prior to that, which I hope will come back.

au1994 · February 7

Glad you’ve got it back, but man, what an ordeal.

xwesx · February 7

Hahaha! Q, you have quite the experience with Marketplace!

jmonroe1 · February 7

@qbrozen, I think I’ve found your problem…you’re asking difficult questions.

jmonroe

28firefighter · February 7

Local Saab mechanic posted this bad boy. I have absolutely no need for it, but I want it!!

stickguy · February 7

sharp looking car.

roadburner · February 7

My wife looked at a 9-3 when they were new; I liked it as well but I suspected that under GM ownership the marque was not long for this world.

qbrozen · February 8

That’s a lot of money for a lot of miles

28firefighter · February 8

I feel like everything is crazy priced now if it runs and is in good shape. But what do I know.

Michaell · February 8

My first thought when I saw the Saab ad was "yeah, you're a Saab mechanic, so you had $0 labor costs for all that maintenance. The next owner won't have that advantage."

ab348 · February 8

I looked out the window to check out how much snow had melted given the 2 sunny days we have had (a decent amount, but sidewalks remain untouched by the city which has responsibility for that, grrrr) and was surprised to see this. That neighbor has a Ford Escape so he must be getting it serviced. I had never heard of this locally before. I wonder what the upcharge is for it vs taking it to the dealer?

jmonroe1 · February 8

ab348 said:
I looked out the window to check out how much snow had melted given the 2 sunny days we have had (a decent amount, but sidewalks remain untouched by the city which has responsibility for that, grrrr) and was surprised to see this. That neighbor has a Ford Escape so he must be getting it serviced. I had never heard of this locally before. I wonder what the upcharge is for it vs taking it to the dealer?

————————————————
There are a few dealerships around here that are touting that service but I don’t know anyone that’s used it. I can’t imagine it’s as cheap as going to their shop and we all know how costly that is. Also, I’m sure only the most mundane work can be done in your garage.

jmonroe

explorerx4 · February 8

That service could be good for a no start or 'vehicle won't move' situation.
I did find this description of their services.

Remote Service · We'll Come To You
Services: Oil Change, Filter Change, Brakes, Batteries, Tire Rotation, Wiper Replacement

xwesx · February 8

Wiper replacement. That's hilarious!

stickguy · February 8

Same cost I believe. Local dealer offered it to me but as of now, I think it is only for warranty work and basically software updates. Makes sense for that since don’t need tools or a lift, and frees up that shop capacity for real repairs.

Dealer lady indicated at some point they might expand the service to do basic maintenance like oil changes.

corvette · February 8

I’m betting you have to go in if you want the $69.99 oil change special. Mobile service could be helpful for when an OTA software update bricks a car.

tifighter · February 8

@28firefighter said:
Local Saab mechanic posted this bad boy. I have absolutely no need for it, but I want it!!

Scanwest is the gold standard for Swede service in the NW. As long as someone from in state buys it, they likely wouldn’t want anyone else to service it.

explorerx4 · February 8

I got the oil changed in my Explorer a couple of days ago. I used points I got when I bought it to pay.
In the past, the first oil change was always free, but I guess it's just a philosophical change, in a sense.
So far, I used the points to buy an all weather mat for the 3rd row and the oil change.
I still have over 20k points left.

roadburner · February 8

xwesx said:
Wiper replacement. That's hilarious!

Not for at least one member on C&C.

Sandman6472 · February 8

Got the Golf a bath yesterday after physical therapy and it looks brand new. The tinted windows do need some attention as they've started to bubble on all of them so need to decide whether to just have it all taken off and replaced or just to have it all removed. Still haven't decided what I plan to do but did see the local Mini store just got a red CountrymanS in stock for just under $35K. Like the color and the size but just not sure if I have the stomach to go into a BMW product at this point. Size wise, it'll fit nicely on my side of the garage. Even though I did say I want "cheap to keep" this next time around, think I'd like the Countryman as much as I do the Golf.

Have found a few 2023 Hyundai Kona's still in stock, Limited models, but they're down in Miami so not sure I really want to make the trip down there unless I'm totally sure I want the same vehicle for both of us. From a reliability stand point, probably a good idea but, still, something I need to think about here. Think the fun factor in the Mini has the Hyundai beat so, just don't know. There is a good $7K to $8K price difference which is something to consider especially with the better warranty with the Hyundai. And if I do decide to go ahead with the Hyundai, no need to deal with taking off the tint in the Golf.

Lots of decisions here. And have been watching a bunch of YouTube videos on the new 2024 Kona Limited and all seem pretty positive. The size increase isn't that much and do like the new looks & tech it provides. So, probably need to take a couple test drives here and go from there. If I do go with the 2024 Kona, time is on my side except, the trade amount for the Golf will go down but, since it's behaving nicely right now, don't have to do anything. So that's another choice I have here and probably the best one for now. Still want to see the price of removing the old tint though.

Sorry to bore you guys with all this as I know it's probably very tedious to read but, I don't make these kind of decisions quickly. I know with the whole Tucson fiasco, probably would've held off a bit if the wife hadn't gotten the Audi when she did. But once that door was opened, felt I should just check out my options since I was so unhappy in the current situation. I wish I could make these kind of decisions as quick as some of y'all do but since we keep our vehicles a long time, gotta get it right the first time. So thanks for bearing through these posts and I understand if y'all just scroll past them!!!

28firefighter · February 8

@tifighter said:

@28firefighter said:
Local Saab mechanic posted this bad boy. I have absolutely no need for it, but I want it!!

Scanwest is the gold standard for Swede service in the NW. As long as someone from in state buys it, they likely wouldn’t want anyone else to service it.

They did all the work on my Viggen. I love those guys. They’ve expanded their service to include Audi, bmw, mini, and Subaru probably out of necessity.

I don’t use them for my car because the shop I use is closer, but if I was still in Ballard it’d be a no brainer.

Michaell · February 8

Sandman6472 said:
Got the Golf a bath yesterday after physical therapy and it looks brand new. The tinted windows do need some attention as they've started to bubble on all of them so need to decide whether to just have it all taken off and replaced or just to have it all removed. Still haven't decided what I plan to do but did see the local Mini store just got a red CountrymanS in stock for just under $35K. Like the color and the size but just not sure if I have the stomach to go into a BMW product at this point. Size wise, it'll fit nicely on my side of the garage. Even though I did say I want "cheap to keep" this next time around, think I'd like the Countryman as much as I do the Golf.

Have found a few 2023 Hyundai Kona's still in stock, Limited models, but they're down in Miami so not sure I really want to make the trip down there unless I'm totally sure I want the same vehicle for both of us. From a reliability stand point, probably a good idea but, still, something I need to think about here. Think the fun factor in the Mini has the Hyundai beat so, just don't know. There is a good $7K to $8K price difference which is something to consider especially with the better warranty with the Hyundai. And if I do decide to go ahead with the Hyundai, no need to deal with taking off the tint in the Golf.

Lots of decisions here. And have been watching a bunch of YouTube videos on the new 2024 Kona Limited and all seem pretty positive. The size increase isn't that much and do like the new looks & tech it provides. So, probably need to take a couple test drives here and go from there. If I do go with the 2024 Kona, time is on my side except, the trade amount for the Golf will go down but, since it's behaving nicely right now, don't have to do anything. So that's another choice I have here and probably the best one for now. Still want to see the price of removing the old tint though.

Sorry to bore you guys with all this as I know it's probably very tedious to read but, I don't make these kind of decisions quickly. I know with the whole Tucson fiasco, probably would've held off a bit if the wife hadn't gotten the Audi when she did. But once that door was opened, felt I should just check out my options since I was so unhappy in the current situation. I wish I could make these kind of decisions as quick as some of y'all do but since we keep our vehicles a long time, gotta get it right the first time. So thanks for bearing through these posts and I understand if y'all just scroll past them!!!

Sandy, I'll share this story as I was in a similar situation back in 1991.

First wife and I were looking to trade out of our existing cars and into something new and more economical. We had an '86 Isuzu P'up and an '88 Isuzu Trooper. Wife got a dark blue '91 Mazda Protégé LX with an automatic. Sweet car, looked like a shrunken MB E-Class.

A few months later, it was my turn to shop. I knew I wanted a stick shift and somewhat sporty. The Mazda dealer had an almost identical Protégé LX, only in light blue with the desired stick shift. I thought long and hard about having two almost identical cars in the garage, and decided it was too corny, so I ended up getting a '91 Nissan Sentra SE. The Mazda was way more loaded - AC, cruise, fancy stereo, PW, PL, PM - than the Nissan.

Wife and I split up 2 years later, and I took the Nissan with me to Denver when I relocated for a new job. Really wished I had all those features when I drove the 1100 miles to Denver from LA, and the AC since I was no longer living by the beach.

tjc78 · February 9

We had two basically identical Volvos except one was an SUV and the other a Sedan.

@Sandman6472
I know you talk about Hyundai’s reliability.. yes they are pretty good but there are also thousands of warrantied engine replacements happening out there.

One social media Hyundai mechanic had a tally box a little while back and IIRC he was up to 40 or so himself.

oldfarmer50 · February 9

stickguy said:
Same cost I believe. Local dealer offered it to me but as of now, I think it is only for warranty work and basically software updates. Makes sense for that since don’t need tools or a lift, and frees up that shop capacity for real repairs.

Dealer lady indicated at some point they might expand the service to do basic maintenance like oil changes.

The local multi-line foreign dealer offered mobile oil changes. The company was using them for a while when our service bays were backed up but they were too expensive for regular use.

roadburner · February 9

In the late '90s my wife had a Fern Green 318ti. She loved it but ended up trading it for a CPO 528i since both of our mothers were widowed and no longer drove. She still misses it.

xwesx · February 9

Those '91 Prot

Michaell said:
Wife got a dark blue '91 Mazda Protégé LX with an automatic. Sweet car, looked like a shrunken MB E-Class.

Those Mazdas really were quite nice for the era (and cost). In 1997, I had a friend who was having issues with the Bronco II she had, and she was looking to get out of it. I helped her do some car hunting, and pointed her to one of these Mazdas. She was a little hesitant to get a FWD car here, but I reminded her that her Bronco's 4WD didn't work most of the time anyway, and she never actually drove anywhere that would require more than that car offered.

Anyhow, I think she paid $3,000 for it, and she never had any problems with it while she was here (another two years).

Michaell · February 9

xwesx said:
Those '91 Prot
Michaell said:
Wife got a dark blue '91 Mazda Protégé LX with an automatic. Sweet car, looked like a shrunken MB E-Class.
Those Mazdas really were quite nice for the era (and cost). In 1997, I had a friend who was having issues with the Bronco II she had, and she was looking to get out of it. I helped her do some car hunting, and pointed her to one of these Mazdas. She was a little hesitant to get a FWD car here, but I reminded her that her Bronco's 4WD didn't work most of the time anyway, and she never actually drove anywhere that would require more than that car offered.

Anyhow, I think she paid $3,000 for it, and she never had any problems with it while she was here (another two years).

I think the Protégé was around $11-12K.

When I was shopping and landed on the Sentra, I really wanted the SE-R, with the 140HP engine. Even though it was only $1K more than the SE, it was out of our budget at the time.

sda · February 9

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44198813/volkswagen-arteon-discontinued/

Sad news, another car canceled. That leaves the Jetta, GLI and GTI as VW's only car offerings.

xwesx · February 9

Haha, @Michaell You and everyone else!

au1994 · February 9

sda said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44198813/volkswagen-arteon-discontinued/

Sad news, another car canceled. That leaves the Jetta, GLI and GTI as VW's only car offerings.

That was a nice car that nobody loved. Basically an A5 if I’m not mistaken.

Michaell · February 9

sda said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44198813/volkswagen-arteon-discontinued/

Sad news, another car canceled. That leaves the Jetta, GLI and GTI as VW's only car offerings.

I saw that. The problem was, that VW wanted to use luxury car pricing on a VW. Can you say "Phaeton"? Top level trims of the Arteon cracked $50K.

Yes, an A5 Sportback made a lot more sense, and was a lot nicer inside.

corvette · February 9

I had forgotten they cancelled the Passat.

Michaell · February 9

corvette said:
I had forgotten they cancelled the Passat.

They used that factory space in TN for the ID.4.

venture · February 9

au1994 said:

sda said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44198813/volkswagen-arteon-discontinued/

Sad news, another car canceled. That leaves the Jetta, GLI and GTI as VW's only car offerings.

That was a nice car that nobody loved. Basically an A5 if I’m not mistaken.

When we were looking to replace my wife's Forester we looked at the VW Atlas. As we walked past a few Arteon's I commented to the salesman on how they were nice cars, too bad there was no market for it. He said, "You're telling me".

corvette · February 9

Thanks to @Michaell (I think?) who recommended Sarah -n- Tuned. I've only seen a couple of episodes. Her car review style is entertaining, and I really like her approach to builds (basically: "Here are two grody looking brackets that nobody will ever see, let's throw them in the parts washer and see what happens!").

Michaell · February 9

corvette said:
Thanks to @Michaell (I think?) who recommended Sarah -n- Tuned. I've only seen a couple of episodes. Her car review style is entertaining, and I really like her approach to builds (basically: "Here are two grody looking brackets that nobody will ever see, let's throw them in the parts washer and see what happens!").

Glad you've liked what you've seen, so far.

A few other things about Sarah that I really like:
1. She doesn't have sponsors - she pays for most of the work out of pocket, except in rare occasions. Since she's a stickler for originality, that can cost her, as she frequently orders OEM parts from Japan.
2. She will, from time to time, build a car as a 'give away' (really, in my mind, a lottery, as you have to donate or buy something to get an entry). She just did one on an early 80's Supra - but, the Lux version, which she manual swapped and added a bunch of other performance pieces.
3. She works on what she likes, not what she thinks her audience wants to see. Often, this is vintage Japanese stuff. But, she makes it interesting enough that even non-gearheads like me enjoy the process of her spending an entire 15 minute video talking about the stiching of the interior door cards, and buying a one-off machine to do the work herself.

oldfarmer50 · February 10

My BIL just bought a new 2023 Nissan Maxima down in central Florida. Even on a ‘23 leftover they had a “dealer addendum” of additional non-optional dealer add ons with a supplemental sticker. Evidently this included the standard mop & glo nonsense and overpriced interior protector. I can’t imagine what other useless garbage they they slapped on. He said most of the stuff he would have wanted anyway but I think he got taken.

When he went to sign the papers the dealer already had all the financing done with a payment calculated with zero down payment. He had intended to put a substantial amount down which they never even discussed with him. Once he let them know he was putting money down they made it difficult to pay. They refused personal or even cashier’s check and in the end required him to move money onto his debit card before they would accept his down payment.

I can’t believe they are still pulling this baloney down in Florida. Dealer ADMs on a Maxima? Aren’t they discontinuing those because of poor demand? I would have walked out a dozen times if I was treated like this. I’ve heard that Florida is a snake pit but this was ridiculous.

My BIL is not a dumb guy but I wanted to shake him and tell him he should have walked out. I guess there are plenty of people who just roll over so the dealers keep pulling it.

venture · February 10

oldfarmer50 said:
My BIL just bought a new 2023 Nissan Maxima down in central Florida. Even on a ‘23 leftover they had a “dealer addendum” of additional non-optional dealer add ons with a supplemental sticker. Evidently this included the standard mop & glo nonsense and overpriced interior protector. I can’t imagine what other useless garbage they they slapped on. He said most of the stuff he would have wanted anyway but I think he got taken.

When he went to sign the papers the dealer already had all the financing done with a payment calculated with zero down payment. He had intended to put a substantial amount down which they never even discussed with him. Once he let them know he was putting money down they made it difficult to pay. They refused personal or even cashier’s check and in the end required him to move money onto his debit card before they would accept his down payment.

I can’t believe they are still pulling this baloney down in Florida. Dealer ADMs on a Maxima? Aren’t they discontinuing those because of poor demand? I would have walked out a dozen times if I was treated like this. I’ve heard that Florida is a snake pit but this was ridiculous.

My BIL is not a dumb guy but I wanted to shake him and tell him he should have walked out. I guess there are plenty of people who just roll over so the dealers keep pulling it.

I hate reading things like that.

I have always wanted to walk after the F&I guy lies to me. Particularly when they say, "I can't sell you the car unless you sign the form". I may do that when we look for my wife's next car because she doesn't care if she gets a new one or not.

Whether they lie or are just stupid I don't know. In their position they should know so I assume it's a lie.

One is - the form to say you do not want to buy all the crap they are offering.
The other is - that they have to charge everyone the same amount for the doc fee.
It seems to me there is another form, but I don't remember. I just sign them Rat Face and they don't even look at it.

nyccarguy · February 10

oldfarmer50 said:
My BIL just bought a new 2023 Nissan Maxima down in central Florida. Even on a ‘23 leftover they had a “dealer addendum” of additional non-optional dealer add ons with a supplemental sticker. Evidently this included the standard mop & glo nonsense and overpriced interior protector. I can’t imagine what other useless garbage they they slapped on. He said most of the stuff he would have wanted anyway but I think he got taken.

When he went to sign the papers the dealer already had all the financing done with a payment calculated with zero down payment. He had intended to put a substantial amount down which they never even discussed with him. Once he let them know he was putting money down they made it difficult to pay. They refused personal or even cashier’s check and in the end required him to move money onto his debit card before they would accept his down payment.

I can’t believe they are still pulling this baloney down in Florida. Dealer ADMs on a Maxima? Aren’t they discontinuing those because of poor demand? I would have walked out a dozen times if I was treated like this. I’ve heard that Florida is a snake pit but this was ridiculous.

My BIL is not a dumb guy but I wanted to shake him and tell him he should have walked out. I guess there are plenty of people who just roll over so the dealers keep pulling it.

Don't forget the Florida ~~Sunshine Tax~~ doc/dealer fee of upwards of $1K they most likely got out of him too.

nyccarguy · February 10

venture said:

oldfarmer50 said:
My BIL just bought a new 2023 Nissan Maxima down in central Florida. Even on a ‘23 leftover they had a “dealer addendum” of additional non-optional dealer add ons with a supplemental sticker. Evidently this included the standard mop & glo nonsense and overpriced interior protector. I can’t imagine what other useless garbage they they slapped on. He said most of the stuff he would have wanted anyway but I think he got taken.

When he went to sign the papers the dealer already had all the financing done with a payment calculated with zero down payment. He had intended to put a substantial amount down which they never even discussed with him. Once he let them know he was putting money down they made it difficult to pay. They refused personal or even cashier’s check and in the end required him to move money onto his debit card before they would accept his down payment.

I can’t believe they are still pulling this baloney down in Florida. Dealer ADMs on a Maxima? Aren’t they discontinuing those because of poor demand? I would have walked out a dozen times if I was treated like this. I’ve heard that Florida is a snake pit but this was ridiculous.

My BIL is not a dumb guy but I wanted to shake him and tell him he should have walked out. I guess there are plenty of people who just roll over so the dealers keep pulling it.
I hate reading things like that.

I have always wanted to walk after the F&I guy lies to me. Particularly when they say, "I can't sell you the car unless you sign the form". I may do that when we look for my wife's next car because she doesn't care if she gets a new one or not.

Whether they lie or are just stupid I don't know. In their position they should know so I assume it's a lie.

One is - the form to say you do not want to buy all the crap they are offering.
The other is - that they have to charge everyone the same amount for the doc fee.
It seems to me there is another form, but I don't remember. I just sign them Rat Face and they don't even look at it.

As shady as so many dealer F&I practices are, these are for their own protection. When the car's owner experiences a major mechanical failure when the warranty is up, the service writer asks if they have the extended warranty. The owner says it was never offered to them. If the dealership chooses to sell extended warranties then they must offer the extended warranty to EVERYONE who purchases a vehicle from them. I do agree it is ridiculous they make you sign 2 legal forms about it. 1 stating that it was offered to you and the second that you declined it.

Same with the Doc/Dealer/Conveyance fee. They aren't required by law to charge a fee, but if they do, then they must charge everyone. 6 in 1/ half dozen in the other. I just look at the doc fee as part of the whole cost. As long as I'm getting the best apples to apples net/net deal (no an Apples & Bowling Balls deal), I don't care about the doc fee. My best friend purchased a Genesis G70 a few months ago. He was also looking at the Lexus IS350 as well. Florida is notorious for high doc fees. There is a big Lexus dealer (J&M Lexus) that touts that they don't charge a dealer fee. They are also a 1 price dealer. They also offered him below market value for his trade in. Another Lexus dealer had a high doc fee, but he negotiated a better selling price than with J&M which offset the cost of the doc fee. Also the 2nd Lexus dealer offered him more for his trade.

In NY, doc fees are capped at $175 (I think?). In December 2021, I traded in mom's leased 2020 RX350 for a new 2022 RX 350. Now I negotiated a 5% off sticker base mf deal which was good at the time. They offered me $10K+ over the buyout for her 2020 RX with a hit on the CarFax (Those were the daaaaaaays). Now the sales manager whom I was dealing with said that due to the low inventory (during Covid) and them wanting to keep their full staff on the payroll they are offsetting the cost by charging the customer a 2% comission fee and that it would go away once inventory levels came back to normal. Guess what? They still charge it.

I don't like the fact that they have you sign a very complex legal document that their attorneys have prepared and you as the customer don't have legal representation.

stickguy · February 10

If you really want to annoy the finance guy, sit there and read every line of every document. Twice. Then ask questions. Even if you don’t understand any of it.

au1994 · February 10

I know it is pretty much unloved but I have always been a Maxima fan.

Michaell · February 10

au1994 said:
I know it is pretty much unloved but I have always been a Maxima fan.

Me, too. Had one as a rental a few years back and enjoyed it.

qbrozen · February 10

Sooo… I’m conundrumming. Had someone reach out and ask if by any chance I’d be interested in swapping the Alto for a 350z. I am quite tempted. Even the wife said “do it!” It certainly doesn’t solve my needs but it might scratch and itch as it passes through my inventory.

https://www.facebook.com/share/iP3x3o93iL2hv7rP/?mibextid=79PoIi

venture · February 10

nyccarguy said:

venture said:

oldfarmer50 said:
My BIL just bought a new 2023 Nissan Maxima down in central Florida. Even on a ‘23 leftover they had a “dealer addendum” of additional non-optional dealer add ons with a supplemental sticker. Evidently this included the standard mop & glo nonsense and overpriced interior protector. I can’t imagine what other useless garbage they they slapped on. He said most of the stuff he would have wanted anyway but I think he got taken.

When he went to sign the papers the dealer already had all the financing done with a payment calculated with zero down payment. He had intended to put a substantial amount down which they never even discussed with him. Once he let them know he was putting money down they made it difficult to pay. They refused personal or even cashier’s check and in the end required him to move money onto his debit card before they would accept his down payment.

I can’t believe they are still pulling this baloney down in Florida. Dealer ADMs on a Maxima? Aren’t they discontinuing those because of poor demand? I would have walked out a dozen times if I was treated like this. I’ve heard that Florida is a snake pit but this was ridiculous.

My BIL is not a dumb guy but I wanted to shake him and tell him he should have walked out. I guess there are plenty of people who just roll over so the dealers keep pulling it.
I hate reading things like that.

I have always wanted to walk after the F&I guy lies to me. Particularly when they say, "I can't sell you the car unless you sign the form". I may do that when we look for my wife's next car because she doesn't care if she gets a new one or not.

Whether they lie or are just stupid I don't know. In their position they should know so I assume it's a lie.

One is - the form to say you do not want to buy all the crap they are offering.
The other is - that they have to charge everyone the same amount for the doc fee.
It seems to me there is another form, but I don't remember. I just sign them Rat Face and they don't even look at it.
As shady as so many dealer F&I practices are, these are for their own protection. When the car's owner experiences a major mechanical failure when the warranty is up, the service writer asks if they have the extended warranty. The owner says it was never offered to them. If the dealership chooses to sell extended warranties then they must offer the extended warranty to EVERYONE who purchases a vehicle from them. I do agree it is ridiculous they make you sign 2 legal forms about it. 1 stating that it was offered to you and the second that you declined it.

Same with the Doc/Dealer/Conveyance fee. They aren't required by law to charge a fee, but if they do, then they must charge everyone. 6 in 1/ half dozen in the other. I just look at the doc fee as part of the whole cost. As long as I'm getting the best apples to apples net/net deal (no an Apples & Bowling Balls deal), I don't care about the doc fee. My best friend purchased a Genesis G70 a few months ago. He was also looking at the Lexus IS350 as well. Florida is notorious for high doc fees. There is a big Lexus dealer (J&M Lexus) that touts that they don't charge a dealer fee. They are also a 1 price dealer. They also offered him below market value for his trade in. Another Lexus dealer had a high doc fee, but he negotiated a better selling price than with J&M which offset the cost of the doc fee. Also the 2nd Lexus dealer offered him more for his trade.

In NY, doc fees are capped at $175 (I think?). In December 2021, I traded in mom's leased 2020 RX350 for a new 2022 RX 350. Now I negotiated a 5% off sticker base mf deal which was good at the time. They offered me $10K+ over the buyout for her 2020 RX with a hit on the CarFax (Those were the daaaaaaays). Now the sales manager whom I was dealing with said that due to the low inventory (during Covid) and them wanting to keep their full staff on the payroll they are offsetting the cost by charging the customer a 2% comission fee and that it would go away once inventory levels came back to normal. Guess what? They still charge it.

I don't like the fact that they have you sign a very complex legal document that their attorneys have prepared and you as the customer don't have legal representation.

Well. Not really. I know that's what they tell you. I've searched a lot to find where a dealer was sued for not offering something to a customer. Can't find a thing. If someone knows of an instance, I would really like to see it so I can change my mind. I agree that it is for their own, made up, protection. As someone here once said - it's like going to the grocery store to buy a loaf of bread and being required to sign a form saying you don't want a turkey.

I read the PA law about doc fees. The state sets a maximum you can charge, but it does not say everyone must pay the same amount. As a matter of fact, the law does say that it is negotiable so it may not be pre-printed on the sales form.

I guess my point is, it is not necessary to lie. Just tell the customer why it is like it is. The one in particular is the doc fee lie. If they would say it is as much as they are permitted to charge and they charge it to everyone that would be OK.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles