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Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

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  • caesarslegioncaesarslegion Member Posts: 109
    My mother has a focus with the zetec motor and it says to use this grade of oil. She has it changed at one of those fast lube places and they put 5w 30 in it. I do notice that the motor makes a light clicking noise at idle and when at speed. Nothing real loud but you can hear it and I wonder if maybe she is doing damage by running the 5-30. I've talked to ford dealers and some say use only 5w-20, others say it doesnt matter.
  • gm02gm02 Member Posts: 49
    Back in May I changed the oil in my truck, using Mobile 1. I determined I would go 6 months 7,500 miles. Since May, I have only put about 2,500 miles on the truck....just not being used.

    What do you folks recommend? Keep going till May then change or change now? If the oil isn't being worked, are the miles more important than the time?
    Appreciate any input.
    Thanks
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    A friend at NAPA checked with the local Ford Mechanics at a dealership. They report that owners will not lose their warranty over this matter, and that 5W-30 is perfectly okay. Higher mileage is the only reason for using 5W-20, and the Ford Corporation is using this mandate to help them with CAFE requirements.
    I find this feasible and believable. (:oÞ
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    get it in writing.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I no longer worry about time for oil changes. I have one that puts on less then 5000 miles a year and it gets changed once a year, oil and filter (horizontal mount) . Another goes a year but gets a filter at 6 months, about 8000 miles a year. My issue is with the filters not the oil, if the filter is not a vertical mount I think the drain back seals begin to fail at 6 months,. A vertical, who cares. Oil analysis tells me it makes no diff. Of course, if the majority of starts resulted in less then 10 miles driven I would be concerned, mine are at least 10 miles once started
  • gm02gm02 Member Posts: 49
    Thanks for the info. I'll double check but I think the filters on my 02 Silverado & 99 Montana are both vertical. I think I'm going to wait till May to make the change. Alos at that time I'll have an oil analysis done.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Actually, when I looked it up in my owner's manual, it very plainly stated that 5W-20 is recommended. It then gave the rationale that the best mileage can thus be obtained, and the writer declared that 5W-20 would provide fully adequate engine protection for longevity. My point here is to call attention to the absence of Ford Corporation demanding in any way that the owner/operator MUST use 5W-20 oil. Like you, I have to consider that any manufacturer may display the audacity to attack one's use of 5W-30 oil, should a warranty claim hinge on it.
    NOW! We all know that these new engines don't fail unless grossly abused, and we who change oil far too frequently have essentially nothing to sweat, if we use 5W-30. By the way, the service manager at a Ford place said to NOT USE 10W-30! That's too heavy on startup.

    Let me pose a question: Does anyone out there have evidence that a dealership or factory rep, or whoever, could actually or WOULD actually ascertain the viscosity of the oil in a failed engine? Are there any factually-on-record cases of such? I suggest the answer to all this is no way, Jose!
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    I would hope for goodwill purposes alone, a dealership would never try that crap, but you never know. The 10w-30 oils have such a similar pour point to the 5w-30's , I'd doubt it would make much if any difference at startup. Anyhoo, I see pennzoil 5w-20 oil at wally world, but just buy the 5 or 6 qts you need each time you change (no need to stock up for thermo-nuclear winter). Baby that new puppy and good luck!
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Thankyuh, thankyuh ver' much!
    Fleetwood has left the message board...
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    and the flashpoint of the 10w 30 oil is listed as 393 degress. Wasn't this listed at well over 400 degrees just a couple of months ago? I also revisited the page for Citgo Superguard and the flashpoint of their 10w-30 oil remained at 453 degrees.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    "and the flashpoint of the 10w 30 oil is listed as 393 degress."

    Hmmmm. That's quite a bit lower than my humble SuperTech if memory serves me right (my spec. sheets are at work). Reinforces my idea that Pennzoil is the best dino.
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    I had written down the specs for the Chevron oil awhile back, and when y'all started saying that the flashpoint had been reduced, I re-checked the page to see what all was different.
    The page now appears to not even show the typical inspection data like it used to, looks like the bottom of the page is missing...
    I called them and asked for the several different values and they were all the same as when I had written them down previously, 10w30 flash is still at 453f....I let them know the page is malfunctioning (he said the page looked ok as he was looking at it, maybe he had an internal copy or something.....)
    Far as I'm concerned, Chevron/Havoline is about as good as normal petroleum oil can be for the moment.
    see y'all
    Rando
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    "Far as I'm concerned, Chevron/Havoline is about as good as normal petroleum oil can be for the moment."
    Looks right to me!
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    the specs for Havoline are posted and updated as of Sept. 2002 and they show the 393 flashpoint. The two oils are currently not the same as most have thought/posted here.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I vaguely recall someone posting a fact or opinion that oil companies are strongly discouraged from packaging a single product under more than one name, for sale by themselves. That is not to say they are disallowed the opportunity to rename their product for another company, to act as a "house brand" for the second company. Perhaps it is a matter of not getting caught up in misrepresentation of products. Any thoughts on that?
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    I went to the Havoline and Chevron pages both, and looked up the product data specs (they both take you to the same search page, I had to click the "printable page". The specs on those pages both show the same numbers that I have seen before, and they show the 10w30 flash at 453F still.
    I called the Chevron lube-tech line and asked them about the numbers, he checked and said yes those are current data....he also said the Havoline and Chevron were not the same oil,,,,
    (but I bet they aren't VERY different..)
    He said Shell(Equilon) still has marketing for the remainder of the year (also still using the widemouth bottles).
    Do you think that possibly the Equilon version of Havoline is now changing? I have tried to find the information for the Shell oil and have not found it yet, any other possibilities?
    see y'all
    Rando
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    going to happen to the Equilon capacity when Shell takes over PZ/QS? Always assumed the PZ/QS product lines would be kept separate. Might be worth posing the question on the other board.
  • malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    to the Chevron site and put in "H" in the search feature of their MSDS page, it took me specifically to a pdf page for Havoline brands. This is where the Sept. 2002 information was posted. I tried to post that link here, but because it exceeded 150 characters it would not post.

    Fleetwood, who knows the reason. It may be simply that those are the equilon specs and they issue them on the side of conservatism?
  • zr2randozr2rando Member Posts: 391
    I did what you did, and scrolled down to the Havoline motor oil entry, I looked through it and found the following (probably the same as you found...)
    FLAMMABLE PROPERTIES:
    Flashpoint: (Cleveland Open Cup) 392 °F (200 °C) (Min)

    At the top of the page it identifies several different wts of oils, and then it seems to gives specs on the whole family of oils, but not any individual numbers for each wt. I think the 392F is referring to a minimum which they included the 5w20 in that list so maybe it applies to the 5w20....
    If you check the "data sheets", and then search, and then click the "printable salesfax" they have it broken down by specific wts (shows each one by its cps number but they all show the same msds number....maybe they are all toxic to ya the same way..?????
    Looks like the flash point for the 10w30 is still 453F....I think they are still on the up & up at least for the time being....but it's not a bad idea to keep checking them huh?
    Is everyone watching NC State on ESPN?????!!!!
    see y'all
    Rando
  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    Walmart just put out a small case (8qt box) in my area and it averages out to $1.20/qt. This is the first time I've seen this package and it beats the price of the 5qt jug. Check it out the next time your at Wallys.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I don't use it, but think it is probably the best dino. oil. Group II+ which is almost unheard of-- much better deal for the money than their group III synthetic and superior to the other PZ-QS brands Quaker State, SuperTech or Wolf's Head IMHO. I'm sure they'll continue using Pennzoil base stocks but wonder what will happen to the other brands with the takeover by Shell and the shifting of Havoline away from Equilon and over to Chevron.
  • jinsong_liujinsong_liu Member Posts: 8
    I am living in Philadelphia; I cannot find any store in this area carry Chevron Supreme. Any one knows who carry Chevron Supreme in my area?
    I also did not see any message about Castrol oil. It is what I am using now. How good is it?

    Thanks
  • pdalpsherpdalpsher Member Posts: 136
    might carry chevron supreme. I've been getting it there (in Virginia) and it is an excellent buy!
  • bburton1bburton1 Member Posts: 395
    Anybody know how these 2 oils compare-have been using Castrol for years but it is getting harder to find the stuff on sale-yeam I am cheap. What I am asking is this-is Castrol worth paying a premium for or is Pennzoil just as good or maybe even better.

    Have an I4 97 accord-highway only-change every 4K.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    The stuff is the most expensive oil in my area among oils marketed as 'standard' or 'conventional.' It usually runs $1.69/qt here (Michigan) while others such as Chevron Supreme, Havoline, Citgo SuperGard are between $1 and $1.15/qt. With 4k change interval, I wouldn't worry too much about which brand of conventional oil you're using. Kmart had Exxon Superflow on sale last week for 79 cents a quart. If I didn't already have 30 qts. of oil in my garage, I would have stocked up.
  • jake73jake73 Member Posts: 4
    i buy chevron oil at costco / 11.29 a case.= .94cents a qt.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I wish I only had 30...
  • jinsong_liujinsong_liu Member Posts: 8
    Jake73
    you get it from which costco? are you in PA DE or NJ?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    My nearest Costco (I'm in SE Mich.) does not carry Chevron oil. It's disappointing, especially since the stuff is included in the holiday magazine they've been handing out at the store lately.
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    I'm DOWN to 48 since my post about oil inventory in August. I would be down another 5 quarts, but the Buick went in the shop and they changed the oil there.

    But never fear, in two or three weeks it will be time again for an oil change in the Buick.

    However, I'll still have over 40 quarts of oil on hand.

    TB
  • jake73jake73 Member Posts: 4
    i'm in az. bought10 cases oil, 1case atf. i'm HAPPY. too many diff. engins.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Castrol gets a bad rap for all of its products because of the Group III is synthetic controversy. However, I think that both Chevron and Pennzoil have better specs. than Castrol. Pennzoil is the only group II+ oil that I'm aware of that sells for a reasonable price. It could be argued that it's pretty close to Syntec for a lot less money. If memory serves me right Chevron's spec. sheet almost overlapped with some of the lower cost (SuperTech) group III synthetics for less scratch as well.





    http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi


    Since that board deals strictly with lubrication it allows narrow subject posts which would be (rightly) quashed on a broad subject forum like Edmunds.

  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    On Bob's board, both have shown to have some moly added for anti-wear. Pretty good stuff for dino.

    I'm one for using Mobil 1 on my Accord, but when the better dinos like Chevron and Pennz go on sale, I stock up that stuff for my sons Altima. It currently has 173K so I can't bring myself to use synthetic when he brings it by for Dad's $5 oil/filter change.

    And when I can't catch the 5qt jug of Mobil 1 on sale at Walmart, I've been known to substitute the 10w30 dinos. It hurts me though.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    CSK Auto Parts stores (Checker, Schuck's, Kragen) this week have Chevron IsoSyn Supreme oil on sale at 59 cents per quart in cases, 2 case limit on the rebate. No rebate sale price this week is 99 cents a quart. Yeah, I got my two cases!
    Plus: I bought the bargain close out Coleman 5000 watt generator.
  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    I'll be looking in the yellow pages to see if that chain came down South. Sadly, I don't believe they are doing business in So La. I hope I'm wrong.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I guess I'll have to be happy that Wal-Marts nearby stock Chevron for $1.08/qt.

    fleetwood, how much was the generator?
  • hengheng Member Posts: 411
    Most small motors run SAE 30 except for cold weather ops when a 5W-30 is recommended. Since I run my generator only for emergencies and the monthly startup, what is the consensus on running 5W-30 all year round?
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    This model was retailing at Checker Auto for $500 and was marked down to $400, and subsequently to $380 as a final clearance price. I got the last one, it appears!
    I have put SAE30 Chevron Supreme in the 10HP Tecumseh engine. I "plan" to move to 20W-50 in it, and most all my other small engine applications, recognizing that multiviscosity use comes with the warning that it burns off faster than single weight oils in most implements. I have a case of Shell 20W-50 I want to use up. (:o]
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    (What an odd combination of cars, BTW)

    If your local Wally World has the Shell 20W-50, maybe they would take it as a return. Or some other parts store.

    I'm pretty sure my Advance Auto Part guy (who sees me on a weekly or more frequent basis) would no questions asked.

    If so, get what you really need instead of using it to use it up.

    TB
  • jinsong_liujinsong_liu Member Posts: 8
    I still can not find any store in my area carry Chevron Supreme. How about Havoline, are they same oil? should I go with Havoline or Pennzoil?

    Thanks

    Jinsong
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I grew up on Valvoline and Havoline, and I really prefer them. Chevron has developed base oils that make their Supreme with IsoSyn very desirable. I do not seek out Pennzoil or Quakerstate, but will take either when I "need" to...
    The real truth is, any SAE certified oil in a proper viscosity should do you well!
  • mike1qazmike1qaz Member Posts: 93
    When I picked up my 01 Accord in December 2000, I was shocked that Honda called for a 5w20 for this vehicle. While driving the first few thousand miles with the oil from the factory, I looked for 5w20 in all the usual places and found none. I went to websites and called the major producers to find out when it would be available at retail outlets.

    Pennzoil was first to have it available locally, so when the time came to replace the factory oil my only choice for a 5w20 was that. After 10k I switched to Mobil 1 (5w30&10w30) and still use this most of the time.

    While lurking on Bob's board, I have come to realize that Pennz (pure base) is considered a good dino and it certainly didn't cause any engine problems with my 4-5K oil changes before my switch to synth. My engine at 79k is tight as a drum (stays at full on dipstick) with 6k M1 oil changes.

    When M1 isn't available at Walmart in the 5qt jug, I have no problem using Pennz, Chev, or GTX.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I think you got it handled, pardner. That sounds like a good program. I just bought a 2002 Merc Mountaineer Premier, and FOMOCO prefers that I use 5W-20. I have asked around, and find that this is just a recommendation. I am advised that 5W-30 will not upset the apple cart for the warranty, and that CAFE standards have caused FOMOCO to "hope" customers will buy into the 5W-20.
  • tntitantntitan Member Posts: 306
    a long time ago. My 2000 Accord SE with the 2.3L 4 cylinder engine with 35,000 miles on it had 5,033 miles when this analysis was performed. It was the 2nd oil change on the Chevron but the first analysis on this engine. I posted this on Bob's site just now and anxious to see what the oil fanatics have to say. Here they are:

    Aluminum 2
    Chromium 1
    Iron 7
    Copper 6
    Lead 7
    Tin 0
    Moly 14
    Nickel 0
    Manganese 0
    Silver 0
    Titanium 0
    Potassium 2
    Boron 11
    Silicon 8
    Sodium 3
    Calcium 1818
    Magnesium 11
    Phosphorus 763
    Zinc 992
    Barium 0

    SUS Viscosity at 210 degrees 59.8
    Flashpoint 380 degrees
    Fuel <0.5%
    Antifreeze 0.0%
    Water 0.0%
    Insolubles 0.5%

    TBN 2.5

    "Wear levels were quite low, easily beating averages".
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Does TBN stand for Total B Number, where I do not know what B stands for? Am I close? I feel terribly vulnerable, but I am admitting I may be the only person on any Edmunds thread who actually doesn't know what TBN stands for! (:oÞ
  • tntitantntitan Member Posts: 306
    I don't know either! I do know that I am going to change my oil change interval back to 4,000 miles.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    It measures the acidity of the oil. However, it is not pH. Somehow they calculate the amount of additives left in the oil with the raw data. I have seen TBNs as high as 10-12 with new oil. A TBN of 0 means that all the additives are gone or the oil is worn out. Tntitan's TBN of 2.5 means he still has additives left but not much. I would not go much further with his drain interval with that kind of TBN. His metals do look very good though.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    My call is that the wear numbers are very good, but that you pushed the limit of the oil since the TBN is 2.5. Won't go much longer. I'm with you and would drop the interval back to 4,000.
  • gregb882gregb882 Member Posts: 75
    Is that a good number? I used Chevron Supreme and have been happy with it, but I've never done an analysis.
  • americanflagamericanflag Member Posts: 400
    I have a new 03 Mustang V-8 with 3000 miles on it. I think that I am going to be a bit radical here and change the oil and oil filter every 2000 miles or 3 months using regular (not synthetic) oil. I like the car, plan to drive it a bit hard, and have a short 3 mile commute to work each day. I'd like to keep the engine running great and keep the car for a long time. I plan on using Tiresplus for the changes, what do you think??
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