Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

ab348 · February 9

In Europe, much more affordable EVs from Chinese manufacturers are available in many markets which are likely the cause of Tesla’s sales slump.

fintail · February 9

ab348 said:
In Europe, much more affordable EVs from Chinese manufacturers are available in many markets which are likely the cause of Tesla’s sales slump.

As of the past couple months maybe a few other reasons too, especially in a few countries, but maybe not the purview of this forum

sda · February 9

Who copied who?

Michaell · February 9

sda said:
Who copied who?

Except the Accord doesn't have the liftback.

explorerx4 · February 9

Sedans pretty much all look alike.

corvette · February 9

kyfdx said:
A car being garaged makes a big difference. I’d have a hard time replacing those

I would tend to agree, but my parents had a set of Michelin LTX 2s on their Element, which was garage kept, and those dry rotted after about five years, to the point that they had poor wet traction and got a prorated replacement. The Maverick will need new tires before next winter, and I'm considering either the CrossClimate 2s or the Vredestein Quatrac Pro or HiTrac All Seasons. The other two are less expensive and seem very comparable in terms of performance, reputation, and owner reviews. The Michelins have superior treadwear ratings, but I don't really want or need the tires to last 90k miles, because their age would be very suspect by the time they accumulated that many miles.

corvette · February 9

Went to IKEA in Cincinnati (West Chester) today. Drove the Maverick--I know from other recent day trips that taking the Ariya in cold temperatures with its 200-ish mile range (in ideal conditions) would be an exercise in frustration. It appears they have two level 2 chargers, but they are also building an Electrify America station. I saw several traditional EA chargers, along with some smaller ones I haven't seen before, behind a fence. Given that I spent an hour there, had the EA chargers been working and available, I could have taken the Ariya.

Pro tip, if I haven't mentioned it here before: If you receive a Visa/MC gift card, an easy way to use the exact amount available on the card is to go to a gas station, and ask the clerk to put $x on the pump you're parked at. In the Maverick, if it's below half a tank, I can ask for $25 and won't have to deal with any amount being refunded to the prepaid card because it won't get topped off (when I had the Tundra, I could have asked for $50 once it was below half a tank).

roadburner · February 9

I only got about 14k miles out of my front tires (Conti ExtremeContact Sport 02) on the C43. The rears might make it to 30k miles. It's a function of the added negative camber built into AMG (or BMW M) suspensions.
It's worth the tradeoff.

stickguy · February 9

corvette said:

kyfdx said:
A car being garaged makes a big difference. I’d have a hard time replacing those
I would tend to agree, but my parents had a set of Michelin LTX 2s on their Element, which was garage kept, and those dry rotted after about five years, to the point that they had poor wet traction and got a prorated replacement. The Maverick will need new tires before next winter, and I'm considering either the CrossClimate 2s or the Vredestein Quatrac Pro or HiTrac All Seasons. The other two are less expensive and seem very comparable in terms of performance, reputation, and owner reviews. The Michelins have superior treadwear ratings, but I don't really want or need the tires to last 90k miles, because their age would be very suspect by the time they accumulated that many miles.

Thanks for doing the work for me. Those are the 2 I am primarily considering!

oldfarmer50 · February 10

explorerx4 said:
Sedans pretty much all look alike.

That’s funny, to me all SUVs look alike.😄

benjaminh · February 10

Goodyear has recently introduced its new WeatherReady2 tire, which is meant to equal Michelin's CC2. According to this test they are pretty much the same on wet and dry. They weren't compared in snow. But apparently the WR2 is maybe a little bit quieter, although I haven't noticed noise issues with the CC2.

Checking the price at the local Goodyear shop it's almost identical with installation for tire size 225/55R17: $900. But Costco throws in a puncture repair warranty + tire rotations for 5 years, which isn't included with the Goodyears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj7iq9Cbd7k

benjaminh · February 10

oldfarmer50 said:

That’s funny, to me all SUVs look alike.😄

I agree that many SUVs look similar. That's a small reason why we went with an all-wheel drive station wagon instead, although it was more that the station wagon design has better rear visibility and more cargo space than most SUVs that are in the same price range.

explorerx4 · February 10

@oldfarmer50,
I agree about looking alike, exspecially most of the small CUV's. I can't tell a Jeep from a Toyota from a Ford.

kyfdx · February 10

corvette said:

kyfdx said:
A car being garaged makes a big difference. I’d have a hard time replacing those
I would tend to agree, but my parents had a set of Michelin LTX 2s on their Element, which was garage kept, and those dry rotted after about five years, to the point that they had poor wet traction and got a prorated replacement. The Maverick will need new tires before next winter, and I'm considering either the CrossClimate 2s or the Vredestein Quatrac Pro or HiTrac All Seasons. The other two are less expensive and seem very comparable in terms of performance, reputation, and owner reviews. The Michelins have superior treadwear ratings, but I don't really want or need the tires to last 90k miles, because their age would be very suspect by the time they accumulated that many miles.

That sounds like a bad batch

kyfdx · February 10

benjaminh said:
Goodyear has recently introduced its new WeatherReady2 tire, which is meant to equal Michelin's CC2. According to this test they are pretty much the same on wet and dry. They weren't compared in snow. But apparently the WR2 is maybe a little bit quieter, although I haven't noticed noise issues with the CC2.

Checking the price at the local Goodyear shop it's almost identical with installation for tire size 225/55R17: $900. But Costco throws in a puncture repair warranty + tire rotations for 5 years, which isn't included with the Goodyears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj7iq9Cbd7k

Every time I price Goodyear tires, my eyes water. Even Michelins are cheaper

explorerx4 · February 10

Last set of Michelin's I had started having sidewall delamination between 5 1/2 and 6 years.
They were pretty done by then anyway(60K), so it didn't bother me.
By that time, they had gotten ridiculously expensive, so I replaced them with some General's, which remained a very quiet tire for the 50K+ miles I had them.

benjaminh · February 10

When Michelins are on sale at Costco, which usually happens a few times I year, it seems like the prices for Michelins are similar to some other brands for tires of a similar level.

That being said, the tire sales at Costco have become less impressive. When I got my CC2s on my Acura they were giving $150 off their already low prices for a set of 4, which went into real bargain/getting the tires at cost territory. My Acura dealer at that time said it that price was at his cost and he couldn't touch it.

In contrast, the current Costco sale on Michelins is only $60 off for a set of 4. That's better than nothing, but...I miss those truly bargain prices. Since we have good tires on all of our vehicles at the moment, however, we probably aren't going to need new tires for a while, knock on wood.

imidazol97 · February 10

corvette said:

kyfdx said:

I would tend to agree, but my parents had a set of Michelin LTX 2s on their Element, which was garage kept, and those dry rotted after about five years,
Was there a refrigerator or freezer in the garage. I've read that the ozone from the operating motors affects the rubber.

My Goodyear Eagles (sorry 'bout that sports reference) LS2 tires on my Malibu were made on 4713,
meaning 47th week of 2013. They have NO checking, cracking, on tread, on sidewall. Nothing. It's
been garaged at least 95% of its life, other than when being driven and for the 2-3 months it was sitting at the Peoria Chev dealer before my local store traded them to get it for me.

My quandry is do I replace them with Michelins now or wait. I'm not sure I want to drive them to Pigeon Forge for another vacation trip at 77 mph through beautiful Commonwealth of Kentucky. Two of them have had nail punctures plugged with patch inside to prevent air seepage into belts.

????

corvette · February 10

@imidazol97 - yes, there's a freezer in their garage. I had never heard about that being a potential issue.

kyfdx · February 10

corvette said:
@imidazol97 - yes, there's a freezer in their garage. I had never heard about that being a potential issue.

On this episode of Myth Busters...

Just kidding, I think that seems like a logical answer.

suydam · February 10

SUVs look very similar when they are black, which seems to be the norm. I can’t tell the RAV4 from a Hyundai Tucson or a Kia Sportage. The larger SUVs stand out a bit more.
And then there’s Rivian. You can’t miss one of those when you see it on the road.

kyfdx · February 10

@imidazol97

How much life left in the tires?

breld · February 10

I was in London last week just for a couple nights for work, and passed several boutique style dealerships walking around the West End...Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche and BYD. I was with a group so didn't bother to stop in, but did notice the increased prevalence of EVs compared to here in the US. BYD is obviously not available here, but a peek into the Porsche showroom indicated more Macan EVs and Taycans than anything else.

breld · February 10

Outside of watching the beat down in the Super Bowl, I spend a decent amount of time researching the MINI Countryman SE (EV). Could be a fun option when the Audi lease is up.

corvette · February 10

The number of extremely high end cars parked on the streets in London is insane...

benjaminh · February 10

This man is apparently a lyft driver or something, and has in a short amount of time gotten up to 75k on his second or third set of CC2 tires. Tires still seem okay at 75,000, with around 5/32nds of tread. But he likes to change tires before they really wear out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsL7qaB1TY

jmonroe1 · February 10

explorerx4 said:
@oldfarmer50,
I agree about looking alike, exspecially most of the small CUV's. I can't tell a Jeep from a Toyota from a Ford.

————————————————
If that’s the case you have a reading problem in addition to a seeing problem.

jmonroe

stickguy · February 10

This test rated the GY #1. Sounds impressive.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=336

benjaminh · February 10

stickguy said:
This test rated the GY #1. Sounds impressive.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=336

The CrossClimate2 has been a blockbuster success for Michelin for the last four years. Here's what it says in the test above about that:

"The CrossClimate2 is one of the titans of the Grand Touring All-Season category. 31 million miles reported in customer reviews at the time of writing, continually at the top of the survey results, it is an undeniable benchmark. Like any good title-holder, that means it will be challenged often, both by the competition and our testing team."

Anyway, it seems like the Goodyear execs told their engineers that they needed to equal or even beat the CC2 no matter what. Looks like Goodyear succeeded.

Since I was burned by my last set of Goodyears I'll probably stick with Michelins going forward, but...who knows? These test results are making me at least consider Goodyear WeatherReady2s for my next tires.

imidazol97 · February 10

corvette said:
@imidazol97 - yes, there's a freezer in their garage. I had never heard about that being a potential issue.

https://www.coirubber.com/ozone-and-rubber-deterioration/
and many other pages on the net. Search for ozone tire rubber

imidazol97 · February 10

kyfdx said:
@imidazol97

How much life left in the tires?

Front is 7 /32nds and rear is 6 /32nds. I believe I looked up on tirerack or somewhere
and these started at 10.5 /32nds when new.
67000 miles.

I had the Chev garage balance them with their Roadforce balancer
about 6 k ago, a year, and they didn't comment at all that they needed
replacement. I asked them to carefully check them. Partly that was
because many Malibu owners complained about them going wacky,
which I took to mean out of round or not even road force when rolling.
I'm picky about balancing and rolling round. That's why I've bought
Michelins since 1968.

Also these tires have morning sickness when parked for a couple weeks.

kyfdx · February 10

imidazol97 said:

kyfdx said:
@imidazol97

How much life left in the tires?
Front is 7 /32nds and rear is 6 /32nds. I believe I looked up on tirerack or somewhere
and these started at 10.5 /32nds when new.
67000 miles.

If you carry a spare, I certainly wouldn't buy tires to drive to Pigeon Forge and back.

Also, I'll just note here that the maximum allowed speed in the Commonwealth is 70 mph.

tjc78 · February 10

Somehow I fell behind on this thread. I love my Ram. I’ve had zero issues with it and I’ve driven all the recent big 3 pickups and IMO it rides and handles the best. The interior seems a bit bigger to me also.

Seriously considering another one…. Although the 5.7 V8 is now a turbo six cylinder (making similar power)

explorerx4 · February 10

Stopped by a dealer after my oncology visit to look at a truck, which looks promising.
Some of the trucks, not all of them and not the one I was looking at, had this markup sticker in the window.
I should have checked the date on the factory sticker.

pensfan83 · February 10

Fine print says those aren't required for purchase though.

oldfarmer50 · February 10

pensfan83 said:
Fine print says those aren't required for purchase though.

You better believe I’d want them removed.

corvette · February 10

The prepaid maintenance isn't terrible if you drive enough to need two oil changes per year, and if they will negotiate it down, other than the fact that Ford gives you points to pay for some of the first maintenance visits. If the bed liner is removable, I don't want it--it should be sprayed in for that price. (The bed mat I got for the Maverick has held up very well, and was much more economical.)

pensfan83 · February 10

corvette said:
The prepaid maintenance isn't terrible if you drive enough to need two oil changes per year, and if they will negotiate it down, other than the fact that Ford gives you points to pay for some of the first maintenance visits. If the bed liner is removable, I don't want it--it should be sprayed in for that price. (The bed mat I got for the Maverick has held up very well, and was much more economical.)

The talk over pre-paid maintenance made me realize I used the last pre-paid oil change for the BMW and no email to renew has been received. Maybe it's "one and done" but part of me wonders if I'm blacklisted since I excoriated the service department on the survey after the coolant change debacle.

explorerx4 · February 10

I saw the optional wording when I posted te picture.
Definitely would get the rear fender liners($185 OEM parts cost) and just get some kind of mat for the bed.

stickguy · February 10

if that is an ecoboost should be rolling with 5K oil change intervals. So if you are driving 10-12K a year would use the 6 up. Not sure about your area but the local Ford dealer (I should shop around before getting my next oil change) is asking for $109 now. Just the oil change, not even a tire rotation.

corvette · February 10

oldfarmer50 said:
According to the internet experts Ram is looking at 30-50% price cuts soon.

I expect the price to be "free" if they're serving advertising on the infotainment.

explorerx4 · February 10

I pay about $85 for oil change/tire rotation.

fintail · February 10

corvette said:
The number of extremely high end cars parked on the streets in London is insane...

I suspect many of those people just buy a new one every year, not worrying about parking patina.

ab348 · February 10

fintail said:

corvette said:
The number of extremely high end cars parked on the streets in London is insane...
I suspect many of those people just buy a new one every year, not worrying about parking patina.

It used to be that people in various levels of white collar jobs received a leased car as part of their compensation package. I don’t know if that is still true. I understand that these days there are a lot of electric car leases in the UK since nobody wants to buy them because of the depreciation hit involved.

oldfarmer50 · February 10

corvette said:

oldfarmer50 said:
According to the internet experts Ram is looking at 30-50% price cuts soon.
I expect the price to be "free" if they're serving advertising on the infotainment.

Does anyone find it ironic that a story about obtrusive ads is on a page that is 50% covered by various advertisements?

oldfarmer50 · February 10

explorerx4 said:
I pay about $85 for oil change/tire rotation.

My costs vary. The Mustang takes almost twice the oil of the Kia.

roadburner · February 10

breld said:
Outside of watching the beat down in the Super Bowl, I spend a decent amount of time researching the MINI Countryman SE (EV). Could be a fun option when the Audi lease is up.

Talking about the new M5, I said that I have a hard time calling a 5,400 pound car a "sports sedan."
In a similar vein, I have a problem calling a 4,588 pound EV a "Mini."

graphicguy · February 11

suydam said:

tjc78 said:
My Mom has a current gen CX-50. It’s one of the middle trims with the base engine.

I don’t get the hate. The infotainment works fine. She does note occasionally the wireless CarPlay acts up…. But it does in both my Ram and Mercedes too.

Power is decent, it’s comfortable even for a porker like me and it hasn’t had any issues.

Having said all that … my Mom has said she preferred her RAV’s and the Murano over it. Quite frankly with as many Yotas as she has had over the years nothing measures up even if it’s familiarity over anything else. I’m really hoping for a decent lease on a RAV for her when it goes back… if not I may suggest she buy a RAV instead of lease so she is 100% happy.

RAVs are selling now for way moor than the competition. She’ll get more bang for her buck with a Hyundai or Kia.

I'm not sure what's going on with Toyota these days. The stock levels of new cars reminds me of Pandemic days.

Anyway, CR-V can be had around these parts for a pretty nice discount ($2,500 off MSRP, at least)!

Test drove one. Nice piece for a mid sized CUV. Certainly more refined than the RAV4.

graphicguy · February 11

@greg1288 ...Congrats on the punch. Pretty car!!!!!

nyccarguy · February 11

So my best friend is also shockingly a Chronic Car Buyer. His current fleet consists of a '24 Genesis G70 with the 6cyl turbo, a 2017 Lexus LX 570 that he bought CPO in 2020ish, a 2017 JK Wrangler Rubicon Hard Rock (6MT), a 2005 LJ Wrangler (5MT), & his son's 2021ish Toyota Tacoma SR Access Cab - 4cyl. He spends a lot of time looking. The other day he found a Jeep dealer near him with hundreds of Wranglers & Gladiators literally piling up. So he decided to take a ride. The one thing that caught his eye was that this dealer has a few brand new 2023 Gladiator Sport S with an MSRP of $50K+ being advertised for $29,999 plus TTL. He drove the gladiator and liked it. Then he started asking the salesman questions. Their policy is to only sell vehicles at MSRP + $7,500 worth of mandatory add on accessories and fees (Spray On Bedliner, $1,500 doc fee...). Now the 2023s were punched as sold a while ago and only have a little less than a year & a half left on their warranty.

Now interestingly enough they have brand new, 2025 Gladiators with lower MSRPs. Low $40Kish. Selling at sticker with 0% financing.

The manager agreed to take off the $7,500 worth of extra BS. Obviously I don't think a Gladiator is worth it at MSRP. I don't even think the heavily discounted 2023 is worth it.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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