Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

roadburner · July 15

qbrozen said:
Try finding parts for a ‘97 Opel! 2nd hand overseas parts take a lot of searching. The maser has been tough, too, which I don’t fully understand. I guess the low production factor. The Opel is laid up again. I went to change the calipers and struts and keep running into problems. I broke one of the CV joints. Good grief. Then broke a tie rod. Ugh. And each time is like a week wait to get a replacement.

At least BMW and Mercedes provide some support to older models.

oldfarmer50 · July 15

tjc78 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

benjaminh said:
As we know, the $7500 EV tax credit ends on September 30th.

Currently there are no more fines or enforcement for the 50 year old Corporate Average Fuel Economy. And so for the next four years at least CAFE is dead.

It seems like there are probably going to be 25% tariffs on most imported vehicles to the US.

All three of those things seem significant. I wonder what the results are likely to be in the next few years.

In the short term it seems like there are going to be huge sales on EVs.

But after that sales of EVs are likely to slump. EV sales in 2026 in the US will probably be lower than they are this year.

In a couple of years I wonder if we might see a return of a V-8 on some vehicles?
I think Stellantis recently announced the return of the V8 in some models.
Only on the Ram because everyone cried. The Hurricane is more powerful and more efficient.

I think mine needs some sort of software update or calibration as it is kinda clunky at low speeds. I called the dealer local to me and since it was so new they said they would need to have it approved to be worked on since I didn't buy it there. They asked for the VIN and I was driving so I'll deal with that later this week. I've never been told that.

Oh - and the crappy dealer saga continues. It's been just about 2 months and I don't have plates. I called to see if they were in and they are. No call from them to tell me....I asked for them to be mailed and apparently that's an issue for them and I was to get a call back from a manager last night to let me know if they could do that. I've bought several vehicles out of state and never had an issue. They also have not refunded the money I had to outlay during the time they didn't pay the trade off. I'm about ready to lose it on them. I've been extremely cordial to this point, but I've had enough.

I think they said for the Charger and the Hellcat too.

As for the dealer, tell them you’ll be bringing your friend Steve in on this if they don’t step up.

corvette · July 15

roadburner said:
...a GLC 43 wouldn't be a bad pick for me if I couldnt have a sedan or coupe.

That's on my short list for an extra car if I still want two cars and don't decide to get another EV.

corvette · July 15

roadburner said:
I think it's time to let EVs sink or swim on their own merits- without the government putting a thumb on the scale.

I agree in principle, but if/when the subsidies and desperate dealers combine to practically give cars away, I'm glad to take advantage of the opportunity.

nyccarguy · July 15

corvette said:

roadburner said:
I think it's time to let EVs sink or swim on their own merits- without the government putting a thumb on the scale.
I agree in principle, but if/when the subsidies and desperate dealers combine to practically give cars away, I'm glad to take advantage of the opportunity.

I feel like manufacturers also have to bring the sticker prices of these EVs down from the stratosphere.

xwesx · July 15

qbrozen said:
Try finding parts for a ‘97 Opel! 2nd hand overseas parts take a lot of searching. The maser has been tough, too, which I don’t fully understand. I guess the low production factor. The Opel is laid up again. I went to change the calipers and struts and keep running into problems. I broke one of the CV joints. Good grief. Then broke a tie rod. Ugh. And each time is like a week wait to get a replacement.

Oddly, we are in the same boat with my son's Forester. It seems like every time we turn around, there's another problem to greet us.

suydam · July 15

nyccarguy said:

corvette said:

roadburner said:
I think it's time to let EVs sink or swim on their own merits- without the government putting a thumb on the scale.
I agree in principle, but if/when the subsidies and desperate dealers combine to practically give cars away, I'm glad to take advantage of the opportunity.
I feel like manufacturers also have to bring the sticker prices of these EVs down from the stratosphere.

I paid less than $40k for my Blazer EV. Hardly the stratosphere. The Kia Sportage PHEV was actually more expensive!

corvette · July 15

Third (and probably final) dealer service on the Maverick this morning, the second one at this dealer (James Collins Ford). Asked for the $39.95 synthetic blend special, a brake flush, one TSB, and two recalls. Brake flush was only $80.78, which was impressively cheap compared to what I expected.

The $39.95 oil change rang up as $90.27 straight parts and labor. The service writer's explanation was that the special was only for five quarts of oil, and my car took six, so I'm not eligible for the special. This is contrary to every other shop I've visited that will honor the special and charge for the extra quart, along with the tax and disposal fees that aren't included in the special.

I used some Ford points and only paid $80.94 out of pocket, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I won't be back to that dealer. Similar issue on my first visit there, which they corrected when I left a review calling them out, but I'm just going to cut my losses at this point.

tjc78 · July 15

nyccarguy said:

corvette said:

roadburner said:
I think it's time to let EVs sink or swim on their own merits- without the government putting a thumb on the scale.
I agree in principle, but if/when the subsidies and desperate dealers combine to practically give cars away, I'm glad to take advantage of the opportunity.
I feel like manufacturers also have to bring the sticker prices of these EVs down from the stratosphere.

Agreed - some of the sticker prices are ridiculous. No way my Mercedes should have an 85K sticker (and it's not top trim level)

roadburner · July 15

@corvette said:
Third (and probably final) dealer service on the Maverick this morning, the second one at this dealer (James Collins Ford). Asked for the $39.95 synthetic blend special, a brake flush, one TSB, and two recalls. Brake flush was only $80.78, which was impressively cheap compared to what I expected.

The $39.95 oil change rang up as $90.27 straight parts and labor. The service writer's explanation was that the special was only for five quarts of oil, and my car took six, so I'm not eligible for the special. This is contrary to every other shop I've visited that will honor the special and charge for the extra quart, along with the tax and disposal fees that aren't included in the special.

I used some Ford points and only paid $80.94 out of pocket, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I won't be back to that dealer. Similar issue on my first visit there, which they corrected when I left a review calling them out, but I'm just going to cut my losses at this point.

I went there with a friend when he was buying an Explorer; they lowballed his Kia trade claiming that “Louisville was a Ford town.” They finally agreed to match his CarMax offer but that was enough to tell me that I never wanted to do business with them.

jmonroe1 · July 15

corvette said:
Third (and probably final) dealer service on the Maverick this morning, the second one at this dealer (James Collins Ford). Asked for the $39.95 synthetic blend special, a brake flush, one TSB, and two recalls. Brake flush was only $80.78, which was impressively cheap compared to what I expected.

The $39.95 oil change rang up as $90.27 straight parts and labor. The service writer's explanation was that the special was only for five quarts of oil, and my car took six, so I'm not eligible for the special. This is contrary to every other shop I've visited that will honor the special and charge for the extra quart, along with the tax and disposal fees that aren't included in the special.

I used some Ford points and only paid $80.94 out of pocket, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I won't be back to that dealer. Similar issue on my first visit there, which they corrected when I left a review calling them out, but I'm just going to cut my losses at this point.

————————————————
I don’t know why you’re backing off now especially since you don’t plan to go back. Therefore, this is the perfect time to slam them. That tactic sounds like a classic bate-and-switch maneuver since a lot of cars today take more than 5 quarts. I’m sure other customers would like to know how this dealer operates.

jmonroe

explorerx4 · July 15

Usually, the Ford dealer I go to takes a fixed amount off of what would be the normal bill.

ab348 · July 15

The writer should have told you going in that the special only came with 5 quarts. You could have either bought 1 qt from them or stopped on the way home to get it. That is straight-up fraud.

benjaminh · July 15

oldfarmer50 said:
That’s a pet peeve of mine. Why engineer a car to last 20 years and then not supply parts? Happens with low production vehicles too. One of the reasons I got rid of my 22 year old Lincoln Mark VIII was that I couldn’t get replacement headlights. Aftermarket was unavailable because of the limited production.

How long a car is designed to last is a question that for some reason has interested me for many years. I've sometimes imagined that engineers, designers, and the money people get together at some point in designing a vehicle and perhaps say, more or less, "This is one of our top vehicles. It needs to last 20 years if given good care," and then they select the engine and its parts, the fabric of the seats, etc. to meet that if possible.

In 1998 we bought a 1988 Oldsmobile 98 from the original owner (actually his daughter, since he'd passed it on to her) for $4000. It was in great shape with maybe 70k miles on it. We kept it for ten years, until 2008, and at that point it was 20 years old—and it still looked really good, and the 3800 engine and 4-speed hydramatic transmission still worked really well. The deluxe royal blue fabric of the seats, which were like couches with soft buttons, weren't faded even though car wasn't garaged, and they were still really soft. The radio worked well, as did the power antenna, and the soft vinyl dash looked good. The original paint was still mostly holding up. It had had some relatively minor issues, but really I probably shouldn't have given it to charity just bc it has some rust under the hood in a few places. I just wanted that all-new 2008 Accord with navigation, anti-lock brakes, and all the other things it had. But really we could have probably gone another 5 years with that Oldsmobile 98, and I still kinda miss it. That car was clearly designed to last at least 20 years. It was one of the best vehicles GM ever built from my pov.

But I imagine some cars like a Chevy Cruze or Nissan Versa are designed with the idea that they are going to last at most ten years, if you're lucky, and that's it.

benjaminh · July 15

sda said:
The deciding factor of selling our 06 TL was the transmission would randomly shift funny. The service tech suggested a transmission service but could not guarantee the issue would be resolved. Heck, it may have been fine for many more miles. I didn’t want it to fail with my daughter driving it. Because of the age of the car, some electronic parts are no longer available. When the stability control light came on it was found a module was defective. The module was no longer available. The Acura dealer had to source a used one from a local junk yard that specialized in Acura and Honda. I miss that car.

That's too bad.

I hope my 2018 Acura TLX will have all needed parts available for at least another 6-8 years, but we'll see.

But I did get this note from Acura a few weeks ago...

"Your AcuraLink Services Subscription Has Been Cancelled

Dear BENJAMIN,

We have processed your subscription cancellation for the vehicle identified below:

2018 Acura TLX
The following subscription(s) have been cancelled:

Cancelled Packages Cancellation Date
Acura Standard Package 07/16/2025
As of your cancellation date, any listed packages will end and you will no longer have access to the associated services.

If applicable, a refund will be credited to the original credit card used to purchase your package within 7-10 business days. If the credit card is no longer on file, a check will be mailed to the address on the account.

If you have received this message in error, or if you have any questions, please call AcuraLink Customer Care at 1-800-382-2238.

Thank you for using AcuraLink Connected Vehicle Services. It has been our pleasure serving you.

AcuraLink Customer Care"

It's been disconnected bc it was 4G and they are now running this on 5G.

So near my dark glasses case there are buttons to press that are about to go dead. One automatically called 911 if it detected the airbags going off.

Another was for a concierge who could help with dinner reservations, hotel reservations, tickets to a show, or whatever else you might need to talk about. I was convinced to get that for my first year, but that's not how I plan trips. I plan them in advance lol, not when I'm on the road talking to my Acura Link representative. I did call them once by accident, and they did seem very nice.

But anyway, two buttons on my car are already obsolete...

imidazol97 · July 15

@benjaminh said:
But I imagine some cars like a Chevy Cruze or Nissan Versa are designed with the idea that they are going to last at most ten years, if you're lucky, and that's it.

I have to say my 2015 Cruze disproves that thinking. Even with its 183000 miles.

xwesx · July 15

imidazol97 said:
I have to say my 2015 Cruze disproves that thinking. Even with its 183000 miles.

Bah. You got your ten years. Consider yourself lucky!

sda · July 15

The TL had around 185k. Engine ran great though it had a very minor leak at the rear main seal. It did not require additional oil between changes. The dipstick always showed full. I checked it weekly fearing the worst. Some features on the 16 Q5 no longer work. The screen shows 2G. lol

corvette · July 15

@benjaminh - those GM C- and H-bodies were very smooth and quiet. Several family members owned them when I was a kid, and I loved riding in them. Some of them were gadget heavy—my grandparents’ Park Avenues had many-way adjustable power seats, power trunk lid pull down, and electronic climate control my late grandfather referred to as “my computer.” The quality wasn’t great, though.

corvette · July 15

@jmonroe1 said:
————————————————
I don’t know why you’re backing off now especially since you don’t plan to go back. Therefore, this is the perfect time to slam them. That tactic sounds like a classic bate-and-switch maneuver since a lot of cars today take more than 5 quarts. I’m sure other customers would like to know how this dealer operates.

jmonroe

You’re right, I have zero need to make them like me, so I might do that. Never underestimate the power of a nudge!

andres3 · July 15

Anyone see a guy's 75 minute movie on how Audi is blowing it with everything with their new designs? So much of it is spot on and 100% bullseye. He's an Audi photographer/videographer.

Pics for attention.

corvette · July 15

Well, well, well… note the number of quarts included:

andres3 · July 15

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

Michaell said:
I hate to say it, but if it’s not on the “we owe” list you may not have much recourse.

A verbal contract is legal in CA though.....
Not to mention they represented 2 key fob's to help seal the deal and then failed to deliver after all the paperwork was done. Sounds like fraud to me.
OK, that's good to know.

How will that play out in court, when it's a "he said, he said" situation?

It's going to credit chargeback dispute. My submitted evidence is texts turned to screen shots turned to jpg's from them saying they are "looking for that 2nd Key FOB" , perhaps from the previous owner that traded it in. I had a couple good texts from 2 different phone numbers that are powerful circumstantial evidence the dealership knows they "owed" despite what the "we owe" sheet says. I wouldn't believe for a second a dealership would try and help locate the 2nd key FOB after sale if they didn't think they had culpability and liability. Hopefully my credit card company feels the same.

I still need a written quote from Porsche of San Diego; should come out to about $900-$950 unless they were lying about the $750 for the part.

andres3 · July 15

nyccarguy said:

@28firefighter said:

@nyccarguy said:

@28firefighter said:

He was in a ‘94 Camaro making a left turn to go the opposite direction from me. He peeled out going way to fast on bald tires, got up to 25-30 and lost control, spun around twice and jumped the median into me. GLI took the hit like an absolute champ.

No insurance, but to his credit he stuck around and took his licks. Cited for reckless driving, driving too fast for conditions, and failure to insure. I submitted a claim to Safeco because I’m expecting this is gonna be a solid 3-4K+ of damage between the rear door, rear quarter panel, and bumper cover.

Very frightening. Did you watch this happen in slow motion saying to yourself: “please don’t hit me! Please don’t hit me…?”

Yep. And because I was in front of and behind someone, there was nothing to do except some choice swear words as I realized he wasn’t going to correct it in time to avoid the accident.

Unfortunately this is not a PDR and paint situation. The rear quarter panel is way more pushed in than it looks.

Bottom line, I’m glad you are ok. Can you sue your own insurance company for DV?

Not in CA nor typically I'd assume. Insurance company's typically explicitly exclude DV on their clients policies, but of course, you can't exclude liability to a 3rd party that never signed your contract.

andres3 · July 15

roadburner said:

28firefighter said:

Sigh. Uninsured driver. Of course.

I'd seek criminal charges if you are in a mandatory insurance state If not, worry the worthless sack of excrement to death in small claims court. If it had happened in KY I would have taken your case to court for free. I HATE, HATE, HATE those uninsured scumbags. If I had been in your shoes I'd likely be in jail charged with Assault 1st.
But it would have been worth it.
edit: If it had been the Club Sport I'd be in Jail for murder.
And it still would have been worth it.

A lot of collisions are caused by uninsured drivers because the uninsured shouldn't be driving hence why their insurance is too expensive, hence why they don't bother to pay for it.

If anyone has ever asked, what crime could be fought by not wasting time on harmless speeders, here you go, EXHIBIT A, uninsured, and Exhibit B; hit & run types.

Hit & Run should be punishable by death.

ab348 · July 15

corvette said:
Well, well, well… note the number of quarts included:

Well, I know where you need to go visit tomorrow, and what you need to bring along with you. Who knows, maybe the service writer voided your sale after you left, rang it through at the special (correct) price, and lined his pockets with the difference.

xwesx · July 15

andres3 said:

Pics for attention.

FINALLY! I think we need a thirty-day limit on pics, or it didn't happen.

qbrozen · July 15

@laurasdada said:
Wasn't the Opel also a Saturn (or is '96 too early for the Saturn version?), would Saturn parts work?

Nothing has cross-referenced to Saturn. I think I may have mentioned I found some things for Saab fit, like brake lines, shocks, and CV joints.

qbrozen · July 15

Re: sticker prices.

I saw a podcast clip yesterday talking about how 2024 Mustang sales were their lowest in history and 2025 is looking even worse. I commented that the MSRP is likely the reason. My 2013 GT snickered for $30k and is now $50k. That’s 66% up. If you look at a Civic or Camaro in comparison, those have gone up 33% and 37%, respectively, in the same timeframe.

fintail · July 15

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:
Try finding parts for a ‘97 Opel! 2nd hand overseas parts take a lot of searching. The maser has been tough, too, which I don’t fully understand. I guess the low production factor. The Opel is laid up again. I went to change the calipers and struts and keep running into problems. I broke one of the CV joints. Good grief. Then broke a tie rod. Ugh. And each time is like a week wait to get a replacement.

At least BMW and Mercedes provide some support to older models.

Heck, I can still get some fintail bits from the dealer - for a price, of course. Thankfully there is a huge secondary market for old car parts.

nyccarguy · July 15

@tjc78 - Tom, what town is your shore house located in?

roadburner · July 15

fintail said:

roadburner said:

qbrozen said:
Try finding parts for a ‘97 Opel! 2nd hand overseas parts take a lot of searching. The maser has been tough, too, which I don’t fully understand. I guess the low production factor. The Opel is laid up again. I went to change the calipers and struts and keep running into problems. I broke one of the CV joints. Good grief. Then broke a tie rod. Ugh. And each time is like a week wait to get a replacement.

At least BMW and Mercedes provide some support to older models.
Heck, I can still get some fintail bits from the dealer - for a price, of course. Thankfully there is a huge secondary market for old car parts.

I bought quite a few parts for my 2002 at my local dealer, and at that point it was 37 years old.

roadburner · July 15

When I sold my Wrangler it was 24 years old and in relatively decent shape, and ofcourse the ti is going on 30 years old.

xwesx · July 15

qbrozen said:
Re: sticker prices.

I saw a podcast clip yesterday talking about how 2024 Mustang sales were their lowest in history and 2025 is looking even worse. I commented that the MSRP is likely the reason. My 2013 GT snickered for $30k and is now $50k. That’s 66% up. If you look at a Civic or Camaro in comparison, those have gone up 33% and 37%, respectively, in the same timeframe.

Yep. Couple that with high interest rates, and it is a recipe for poor sales! The only ones snickering are the bankers when some sucker finances.

xwesx · July 15

I know it isn't in the realm of interest at the moment, but I figured I would toss an update on the car project.... We FINALLY got the subframe reinstalled tonight. This whole project has been an endless comedy of errors. On the subframe, the new bushings, which are high quality enthusiast parts (more intended for the WRX crowd), had a bit of a hiccup in that they did not mate directly to the stock spacers for his car. He followed up with the manufacturer and provided photos, and they came back today saying that "our Australia team determined that this kit is not compatible with the SH Forester."

This, after multiple websites sell this kit and list it as compatible.... Really? Over the SPACER?! Seems the better idea just to have a variety of spacer kits that the buyer can select based on the specific application. Anyhow, the company offered to just refund my son his money (about $400... not a cheap kit!). I told him the same thing that I did the first day of the project: We should just modify the original spacers so that they are compatible! He was skeptical, but since we already removed the original bushings, I was down for an adventure. About an hour later, and I had four fully compatible spacers with the subframe back under the car. He was pleased because now he has a free bushing kit; I told him he should send photos and instructions to the company to avoid de-listing the only bushing kit in existence, and he said, "I will. AFTER they process the refund." I think he should just pay for it and let them learn the lesson via feedback, but he feels that it is so ridiculous that they didn't have that sorted years ago his give-a-darn is busted.

benjaminh · July 16

nyccarguy said:
...I never thought I'd say this about a Camry, but I love it! Our Camry is Underground (dark grey) with the Boulder (medium grey) interior. It rides great and is quite comfortable. Acceleration isn't blistering by any means, but it merges and passes well. Handling is competent. MPG is phenomenal. We are averaging 42-44 mpg. The few times I've filled up, there has been about 1/8 - 1/4 tank left. It takes less than 10 gallons per fill up...

Thanks for the report.++

Since the 1986 Accord, the one with the hidden headlights, I've usually liked the Accord more than the Camry. But this new Camry seems so much better than the Accord in every way. For one the styling of the new Camry is bold and sleek, while the Accord now seems bloated and bland. But more important is what's under the hood, and the Camry of course has standard their reliable, powerful, and economical hybrid, while the Accord comes standard with Honda's flawed 1.5 turbo. Another points is that the design of the Camry provides better rear visibility and rear windows that actually roll down all the way, while the Accord has that design that really annoys me where the windows only roll down a bit more than halfway. An Accord hybrid is available, of course, but it costs almost $5000 more than the Camry with the standard hybrid, and gets lower mpg. And AWD is available on the Camry but not the Accord. Finally, the Camry has before now fallen short of the Accord when it comes to handling, but all of the many reviews I've seen say the handling of the new Camry finally makes it fun to drive.

Seems like Honda has just surrendered when it comes to the Accord, or has just finally been beaten by Toyota.

Toyota's engines seem longer lasting than pretty much anything else around. Toyota engines now have both port and direct injection, and so are kept free of carbon build-up. And here's an example of a 2014 Lexus CT200h that has gone a million miles....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2014-lexus-ct200h-hybrid-1-million-miles-odometer

And a big surprise is that he only changes the oil every 20k miles. Works as a long-distance delivery driver and goes about 100k a year. Several other things have been replaced in that million miles, but still it seems impressive.

Anyway, if I was getting a new sedan I'd definitely get a Camry over an Accord.

benjaminh · July 16

From my pov the current tariff/trade war situation is unfortunate. Especially when it comes to Canada, which has up until recently been the closest and arguably most important ally of the US, this seems like a mistake. My wife and I were happy that our 2018 Honda CR-V was built in Canada, and although I have issues with the Honda's 1.5 turbo in that car, the assembly quality was great and it was really built with care.

Many Europeans and Canadians are now boycotting US goods and services, which has already probably cost thousands of jobs. So the costs both diplomatically and economically seem higher than any possible benefits. But with all that being said, along with the damages this has seemingly started to bring increased vehicle production to the US. A video story I watched recently said that since the start of the year the percentage of vehicles sold in the US that are made in the US has increased from 51% to 56%. Increased production was from overtime and extra shifts. And a story yesterday in Auto News picked up by Auto Blog says that Volvo is probably going to increase production in its South Carolina factory by about 100,000 over the next few years.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/will-tariffs-bring-volvos-popular-suvs-to-american-factories

"According to one of the sources who spoke with AutoNews, Volvo expects to build about 60,000 XC60s and 50,000 XC90s annually in the U.S., which would take advantage of the factory’s 150,000-vehicle capacity."

benjaminh · July 16

https://www.autonews.com/general-motors/an-general-motors-orion-production-0715/

"GM to build Silverado, Sierra, Escalade instead of EVs at Michigan plant. General Motors will build both of its light-duty full-size pickups and the Cadillac Escalade full-size SUV at a Michigan assembly plant starting in 2027."

benjaminh · July 16

According to this video yesterday, vehicle sales are down and inventories are up. Incentives are also up. A 60-day or so supply of cars is a goal for some as a good level, but most are above that. The conclusion of the Car Edge guys is that it's now a good time to get a good deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riEFNI-1tyY

oldfarmer50 · July 16

jmonroe1 said:

corvette said:
Third (and probably final) dealer service on the Maverick this morning, the second one at this dealer (James Collins Ford). Asked for the $39.95 synthetic blend special, a brake flush, one TSB, and two recalls. Brake flush was only $80.78, which was impressively cheap compared to what I expected.

The $39.95 oil change rang up as $90.27 straight parts and labor. The service writer's explanation was that the special was only for five quarts of oil, and my car took six, so I'm not eligible for the special. This is contrary to every other shop I've visited that will honor the special and charge for the extra quart, along with the tax and disposal fees that aren't included in the special.

I used some Ford points and only paid $80.94 out of pocket, but it left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I won't be back to that dealer. Similar issue on my first visit there, which they corrected when I left a review calling them out, but I'm just going to cut my losses at this point.
————————————————
I don’t know why you’re backing off now especially since you don’t plan to go back. Therefore, this is the perfect time to slam them. That tactic sounds like a classic bate-and-switch maneuver since a lot of cars today take more than 5 quarts. I’m sure other customers would like to know how this dealer operates.

jmonroe

Dealers will try anything.

Once I fell for a buy 3 get one free oil change scam at the dealer where I bought a 1997 Chrysler Cirrus. When I brought it in they told me that the deal was not for the Cirrus but for the 2000 Chrysler Concord I had bought at another dealer and no longer owned. I had them drop the lift and left.

Just yesterday my son took a friend to a Kia dealer to look at a Sorento which was listed on their website. Despite being on the lot for 79 days the salesman told the friend that the title for the vehicle had not arrived and he would be willing to sell it to her but she couldn’t register it. He then started pushing to sell other cars. They left.

oldfarmer50 · July 16

imidazol97 said:

@benjaminh said:

But I imagine some cars like a Chevy Cruze or Nissan Versa are designed with the idea that they are going to last at most ten years, if you're lucky, and that's it.

I have to say my 2015 Cruze disproves that thinking. Even with its 183000 miles.

You must take exceptional care of that car if what I hear about the Cruze is true. Just goes to show that even cars that are trashed by the auto press can go the distance. Where I am it’s usually not mechanicals that do a car in but rust.

kyfdx · July 16

Drive down any street, and you'll see that cars are designed to last much, much longer than ten years.

oldfarmer50 · July 16

qbrozen said:
Re: sticker prices.

I saw a podcast clip yesterday talking about how 2024 Mustang sales were their lowest in history and 2025 is looking even worse. I commented that the MSRP is likely the reason. My 2013 GT snickered for $30k and is now $50k. That’s 66% up. If you look at a Civic or Camaro in comparison, those have gone up 33% and 37%, respectively, in the same timeframe.

My 2015 listed at about $35k so sticker inflation has been a thing for awhile.

ab348 · July 16

The prices of new Mustangs make no sense to me. Either Ford found a new way to calculate unit costs of inputs to the car that produces significantly more expensive results, because they certainly don't use high-level materials and finishes on what you see, or they are allocating overhead in a way that is driving that number much higher. It is a conundrum, in that lower sales means fewer vehicles produced to absorb fixed costs, driving up prices. You used to be able to buy a GT for $35K here not too long ago, and now it is almost twice that amount. No wonder sales are falling like a stone.

nyccarguy · July 16

qbrozen said:
Re: sticker prices.

I saw a podcast clip yesterday talking about how 2024 Mustang sales were their lowest in history and 2025 is looking even worse. I commented that the MSRP is likely the reason. My 2013 GT snickered for $30k and is now $50k. That’s 66% up. If you look at a Civic or Camaro in comparison, those have gone up 33% and 37%, respectively, in the same timeframe.

I was talking about EV MSRPs, but yes sticker prices on ALL cars have shot up. My Mom had a 2011 & a 2016 V6 Cayenne. MSRPs for both were in the low to mid 60s. A 2025 Gas Cayenne Starts at $88K.

Mustang GT with a $30K sticker and low financing rates seems like a great deal to me. Put $5K or $10K down and finance the rest. You have a nice, 2nd fun car to drive in the Late Spring, Summer, & Early fall. At a sticker price north of $50K (that seems like a Corvette price from the early 2010s) plus these sky high interest rates puts it into "well, I only live once and have always wanted a Mustang with a V8 so I'll take it out of my 401K or Roth IRA" money.

tjc78 · July 16

nyccarguy said:
@tjc78 - Tom, what town is your shore house located in?

We are in Wildwood on the west side by the bay / Otten's Harbor

corvette · July 16

oldfarmer50 said:

Just yesterday my son took a friend to a Kia dealer to look at a Sorento which was listed on their website. Despite being on the lot for 79 days the salesman told the friend that the title for the vehicle had not arrived and he would be willing to sell it to her but she couldn’t register it. He then started pushing to sell other cars. They left.

If they know there is an issue getting the title, they need to pull it from the lot and not offer it for sale. When one of my local dealers kept their overflow at a vacant lot near my house, there were always a handful of misfit cars like that, usually older, that lingered for a very long time. I think some of them had yellow "do not sell" stickers on them.

xwesx · July 16

I had photo issues last night. Here is what I intended to share....

xwesx · July 16

benjaminh said:
According to this video yesterday, vehicle sales are down and inventories are up. Incentives are also up. A 60-day or so supply of cars is a goal for some as a good level, but most are above that. The conclusion of the Car Edge guys is that it's now a good time to get a good deal.

I think a "good deal" is relative, but increasing inventories is always a good sign that the market is shifting toward buyers!

graphicguy · July 16

tjc78 said:
I'm not chiming in on whether or not EV's are the future... but I'll stand on the hill that without the credits sales have nowhere to go but down.

That $7500 (and sales tax credits in some states) put a lot of drivers in electrics that otherwise would not have been. I know without the crazy lease I would not have an EQE.

Just heard a blurb yesterday that Hyundai/Kia will keep the cheap prices on their EVs in place, even if they have to eat the $7,500 tax credit. They said they want EV market share, as they are betting heavily on it.

They'll either have a large portion of the market, or will be swimming in red ink 5 years down the road, but they're committed. Seems GM and VW is going the same way.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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