Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

Michaell · July 17

ab348 said:

@Michaell said:

I don't think he could have picked a worse partner. Daimler was making uber-luxury cars, meticulously engineered and built to high tolerances. Chrysler was a mass-market automaker. Like mixing oil and water, corporate wise.

Well, now they’re tied up with Fiat and Alfa, brands which have never sold well in the North American market.

Out of the frying pan, into the fryer. As noted above, Cerebus thought they could treat Chrysler like any company that could be flipped for a profit. Nope.

ab348 · July 17

@Michaell said:
Out of the frying pan, into the fryer. As noted above, Cerebus thought they could treat Chrysler like any company that could be flipped for a profit. Nope.

Well, they might have if not for the ‘07/08 financial system meltdown, after which all bets were off.

jmonroe1 · July 17

explorerx4 said:
@kyfdx,
They spend more miles on flatbeds that actually driving.

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And more than likely even more time on the rack.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · July 17

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:
BTW, when you go to get that Charger deal, beware!

https://youtube.com/shorts/3cVxKtsPHHo?si=dm9StFmuYrNV91Rq
Dealerships are still doing this? Unreal.

Saw a new body style Camry XSE yesterday at Costco parking lot. Dark grey metallic with red interior. Sharp. Never thought I'd say that about a Camry.

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That red interior gets you every time, huh?

jmonroe

Michaell · July 17

@jmonroe1 said:
————————————————
That red interior gets you every time, huh?

jmonroe

If you don’t like black, red is one of the only optional interior colors available for many brands.

tjc78 · July 17

@Michaell said:

@jmonroe1 said:
————————————————
That red interior gets you every time, huh?

jmonroe

If you don’t like black, red is one of the only optional interior colors available for many brands.

Exactly why I went nuts looking for a Ram with the very rare light interior.

At the shore there are at least 8 current generation Rams in my general area (where I walk the dog, lol) and none of them have the light interior. Heck, only one is another color than black or white outside

ab348 · July 17

I don’t mind red interiors, but I don’t care for that Camry red. The shade is just too bright.

andres3 · July 17

Michaell said:

sda said:

@Michaell said:

If you get the chance, read the book "Taken for a Ride", which is a detailed account of the Daimler-Chrysler merger.

Not a merger of equals, but a full blown takeover.

I believe I read it some years ago. A sorry tale and maddening. Chrysler has never been the same. Cerberus did more damage and the subsequent owners even more.

Chrysler was riding high before all of this - the "cab forward" designs, the new-look Ram pickup, the Durango, the Viper - all of these were hits in the marketplace.

Bob Eaton completely misread the tea leaves about the market - he thought consolidation was going to happen on a massive scale, and he wanted to be out in front of it.

I don't think he could have picked a worse partner. Daimler was making uber-luxury cars, meticulously engineered and built to high tolerances. Chrysler was a mass-market automaker. Like mixing oil and water, corporate wise.

They had good looking designs but the extreme poor quality and reliability, coupled with poor customer service meant that the chickens were coming home to roost no matter who they merged or didn't merge with.

andres3 · July 17

tjc78 said:

roadburner said:

explorerx4 said:
The newer Sony models I've looked have inboard and outboard leg attachment options.
My current TV is 9 years old, but the picture is still great, so I don't feel motivated to upgrade.
My Pioneer Kuro plasma is 17 years old and and it still has an amazing picture. In the basement I was able to decrease the viewing distance so it looks even better.
The plasma I have at the shore dates to about 2012 I believe as that is when the previous owners bought the place. It is an Insignia (Best Buy house brand) but I'll tell you it rivals some of the newer sets I have. The blacks are so much better and there is zero motion lag. I want to swap it because it is so heavy and on a very large mount that sticks out from the wall more than I like. Pretty stupid reason since for the use it gets it works perfectly.

I got one of the last model Samsung high-line Plasma models they made, prior to the industry deciding Plasma was too good and not energy efficient enough to satisfy the green eco tree huggers.

It's not 17 years old but I bet it has more hours of use than your basement TV being it's been our main room workhorse and my daughter used it a lot while not even paying attention to it. Part of me wants to get something new before it "blows up" and stops working. I do think it's not as bright as it used to be, which is fine once the sun goes down.

Now you have me worried that the deep blacks Plasma's excel at still haven't been caught a decade or more later by the latest and greatest tech; I had figured they caught up by now.

graphicguy · July 18

Michaell said:

sda said:
A horrible crime on what used to be Chrysler/Dodge/Ram. Corporate mergers, acquisitions for those acquired typically not good. Prime example.

If you get the chance, read the book "Taken for a Ride", which is a detailed account of the Daimler-Chrysler merger.

Not a merger of equals, but a full blown takeover.

I followed it closely from the Wall Street Journal's perspective when it was happening. It was indeed a takeover. Chrysler at the time had barrels of cash. And, with the SUV Cruze going into full swing, MB did not have credible technology to get into the market quickly. Therefore, Jeep was a way to get into it immediately without years of engineering efforts by Benz.

Benz threw Chrysler some scraps (Crossfire, using old Benz designs and 300, using the old E Class underpinnings).

Got what they needed and shuffled it off to Cerberus, who was not very good in the financial field, and even worse as a car manufacturer.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Shame, really. I liked a lot of. their products over the years. Now, they're all gone.

nyccarguy · July 18

graphicguy said:

Michaell said:

sda said:
A horrible crime on what used to be Chrysler/Dodge/Ram. Corporate mergers, acquisitions for those acquired typically not good. Prime example.

If you get the chance, read the book "Taken for a Ride", which is a detailed account of the Daimler-Chrysler merger.

Not a merger of equals, but a full blown takeover.
I followed it closely from the Wall Street Journal's perspective when it was happening. It was indeed a takeover. Chrysler at the time had barrels of cash. And, with the SUV Cruze going into full swing, MB did not have credible technology to get into the market quickly. Therefore, Jeep was a way to get into it immediately without years of engineering efforts by Benz.

Benz threw Chrysler some scraps (Crossfire, using old Benz designs and 300, using the old E Class underpinnings).

Got what they needed and shuffled it off to Cerberus, who was not very good in the financial field, and even worse as a car manufacturer.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Shame, really. I liked a lot of. their products over the years. Now, they're all gone.

It is amazing if you think back to the early-mid '90s before the takeover how Chrysler cars were just EVERYWHERE! Neons, Intrepids (Concordes, Visons), Caravans (Voyagers), Eagle Talons (Lasers & Eclipses), XJ Cherokees, & Grand Cherokees.

Michaell · July 18

I always felt that during that time, Chrysler had less bureaucracy and bloat and more creative freedom. Able to move faster than GM or Ford.

tjc78 · July 18

@Michaell said:
I always felt that during that time, Chrysler had less bureaucracy and bloat and more creative freedom. Able to move faster than GM or Ford.

Totally agree with this.

sda · July 18

Totally speculation but I think Chrysler and would have fared better had Bob Lutz led instead of Eaton.

Michaell · July 18

sda said:
Totally speculation but I think Chrysler and would have fared better had Bob Lutz led instead of Eaton.

Oh, absolutely! There was a chapter or two devoted to just that topic in the book - Eaton came over from GM Europe, IIRC, and brought a lot of that corporate mentality with him.

andres3 · July 18

I can see scapegoating Daimler, Cerebus, and the 2008/09 meltdown, but what are the excuses for Chrysler's first round of bailouts, at a time as I understand it, the other Big 2 didn't need bailouts.

venture · July 18

One tiny step at a time. The black plastic cladding continues.

Up to 290 mile range with AWD.
300+ in FWD.

oldfarmer50 · July 18

andres3 said:
I can see scapegoating Daimler, Cerebus, and the 2008/09 meltdown, but what are the excuses for Chrysler's first round of bailouts, at a time as I understand it, the other Big 2 didn't need bailouts.

Less of a bailout and more loan guarantees. Chrysler paid back the loans early.

tjc78 · July 18

@venture said:
One tiny step at a time. The black plastic cladding continues.

Up to 290 mile range with AWD.
300+ in FWD.

Not enough range - IMO baseline for any electric should be 350. Our Mercedes tops out at 300 or so and an extra 50 would be perfect especially if you are buying it and want to keep to the 20%-80% charge range. Most manufacturers say thats the best thing for the battery.

I had mine down to 5% yesterday. 37 mins to 79% at Electricfy America. Just enough time to get a little walk through the mall while it was charging

Michaell · July 18

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:
I can see scapegoating Daimler, Cerebus, and the 2008/09 meltdown, but what are the excuses for Chrysler's first round of bailouts, at a time as I understand it, the other Big 2 didn't need bailouts.
Less of a bailout and more loan guarantees. Chrysler paid back the loans early.

Correct - the loans came from private banks, and Uncle Sam guaranteed them. As noted, they were paid back early, mainly because of the success of the K-Car, and all its derivatives.

carnaught · July 18

ab348 said:
I don’t mind red interiors, but I don’t care for that Camry red. The shade is just too bright.

Like that Camry red like any red interior unless it clashes with the exterior.

Michaell · July 18

carnaught said:

ab348 said:
I don’t mind red interiors, but I don’t care for that Camry red. The shade is just too bright.
Like that Camry red like any red interior unless it clashes with the exterior.

The red in the Camry is available with either a grey or white exterior only. No clashing, to my knowledge.

suydam · July 18

tjc78 said:

@venture said:

One tiny step at a time. The black plastic cladding continues.

Up to 290 mile range with AWD.

300+ in FWD.

Not enough range - IMO baseline for any electric should be 350. Our Mercedes tops out at 300 or so and an extra 50 would be perfect especially if you are buying it and want to keep to the 20%-80% charge range. Most manufacturers say thats the best thing for the battery.

I had mine down to 5% yesterday. 37 mins to 79% at Electricfy America. Just enough time to get a little walk through the mall while it was charging

The Blazer EV is around 300 miles and it’s perfectly fine for us.

nyccarguy · July 18

Michaell said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:
I can see scapegoating Daimler, Cerebus, and the 2008/09 meltdown, but what are the excuses for Chrysler's first round of bailouts, at a time as I understand it, the other Big 2 didn't need bailouts.
Less of a bailout and more loan guarantees. Chrysler paid back the loans early.
Correct - the loans came from private banks, and Uncle Sam guaranteed them. As noted, they were paid back early, mainly because of the success of the K-Car, and all its derivatives.

"If you can find a better car, BUY IT!"

andres3 · July 18

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:
I can see scapegoating Daimler, Cerebus, and the 2008/09 meltdown, but what are the excuses for Chrysler's first round of bailouts, at a time as I understand it, the other Big 2 didn't need bailouts.
Less of a bailout and more loan guarantees. Chrysler paid back the loans early.

Same thing by a different name. I'm sure there are a lot of failed businesses that could have used loans and loan guarantees prior to going out of business to keep them from going out of business.

People say the more recent bailouts were "paid back" but the truth is that statement is false if you understand basic math and accounting. Billions were lost/wasted/thrown away.

Opportunity cost.... not even factored in.

Michaell · July 18

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:
I can see scapegoating Daimler, Cerebus, and the 2008/09 meltdown, but what are the excuses for Chrysler's first round of bailouts, at a time as I understand it, the other Big 2 didn't need bailouts.
Less of a bailout and more loan guarantees. Chrysler paid back the loans early.
Same thing by a different name. I'm sure there are a lot of failed businesses that could have used loans and loan guarantees prior to going out of business to keep them from going out of business.

People say the more recent bailouts were "paid back" but the truth is that statement is false if you understand basic math and accounting. Billions were lost/wasted/thrown away.

Opportunity cost.... not even factored in.

Sorry, no. A bailout has no expectation of being paid back. Uncle Sam worked with the banks to set up the loans to Chrysler, with pretty favorable terms. Chrysler paid back every dime, with interest, ahead of schedule.

Can't speak to the more recent "bailouts" of GM and Chrysler, or all the banks in 2008.

I do know our small business was awarded a COVID relief "grant" from the gov't when we were shut down. That money, while not a lot in absolute terms, allowed us to keep the doors open - when we were allowed to reopen them. No expectation of paying it back.

And, to set the record straight, these were not the "payroll" loans or relief which were highly scammed. We never have had enough staff - full or part time - to qualify.

corvette · July 18

I can confirm a 200-ish mile EPA range (like the Ariya has) is fairly limiting.

On another note, got some positive feedback from my boss at my new job. Apparently she appreciates me telling her immediately when things get scheduled (trials, mediations, etc.)… I didn’t tell her I do that because if I waited, I’d forget.

And apparently, her boss likes the suggestions I’ve been making for improving software and processes. Hard to self-gauge how you’re doing after three-ish months at a new job, so that was very appreciated and encouraging.

andres3 · July 18

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:
I can see scapegoating Daimler, Cerebus, and the 2008/09 meltdown, but what are the excuses for Chrysler's first round of bailouts, at a time as I understand it, the other Big 2 didn't need bailouts.
Less of a bailout and more loan guarantees. Chrysler paid back the loans early.
Same thing by a different name. I'm sure there are a lot of failed businesses that could have used loans and loan guarantees prior to going out of business to keep them from going out of business.

People say the more recent bailouts were "paid back" but the truth is that statement is false if you understand basic math and accounting. Billions were lost/wasted/thrown away.

Opportunity cost.... not even factored in.

Sorry, no. A bailout has no expectation of being paid back. Uncle Sam worked with the banks to set up the loans to Chrysler, with pretty favorable terms. Chrysler paid back every dime, with interest, ahead of schedule.

Can't speak to the more recent "bailouts" of GM and Chrysler, or all the banks in 2008.

I do know our small business was awarded a COVID relief "grant" from the gov't when we were shut down. That money, while not a lot in absolute terms, allowed us to keep the doors open - when we were allowed to reopen them. No expectation of paying it back.

And, to set the record straight, these were not the "payroll" loans or relief which were highly scammed. We never have had enough staff - full or part time - to qualify.

Now you are breaking down the differences of opinion here into different definitions of what a "bailout" is. I prescribe more to the typical definition as per:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailout#:~:text=A bailout is the provision,on the brink of bankruptcy.

A bailout is the provision of financial help to a corporation or country which otherwise would be on the brink of bankruptcy

Getting a load setup that provides more favorable terms than the market would otherwise provide so you can avoid bankruptcy is absolutely a bailout, expectation or no expectation of being paid back doesn't change that one bit. It's crony capitalism by definition; picking winners and losers via bailouts.

explorerx4 · July 18

...and we're supposed to agree with the perspective of someone who bought a Neon?

ab348 · July 18

I’m just glad he is a reasonable fellow and doesn’t hold a grudge.

driver100 · July 18

ab348 said:
I’m just glad he is a reasonable fellow and doesn’t hold a grudge.

.....and then there was the watch that was purchased at CVS.

Michaell · July 18

andres3 said:
Getting a loan setup that provides more favorable terms than the market would otherwise provide so you can avoid bankruptcy is absolutely a bailout, expectation or no expectation of being paid back doesn't change that one bit. It's crony capitalism by definition; picking winners and losers via bailouts.

So, by your definition, Chrysler should have been allowed to go bankrupt in the 70's, and GM in 2008. If either company would have been unable to restructure their debt, they would have gone out of business.

And you're OK with that? That we have virtually no domestic automobile production? That we would be forced to buy a majority of our cars from Europe or Asia?

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands, or millions, of jobs lost - not just from the primary companies, but from the hundreds of suppliers as well?

Do I believe in a Divine Right of Business? I do not - companies go out of business all the time for dumb decision making. But, I think the automobile business has some national security implications that would cause the government to intervene - and they have.

tjc78 · July 19

@suydam said:
The Blazer EV is around 300 miles and it’s perfectly fine for us.

It’s not awful, I just think that 350 is a better number because you can get a 300 mile range on an 80% charge. This is the best for the battery and 20% to 80% is the fastest charging program at nearly all the super chargers.

nyccarguy · July 19

tjc78 said:

@suydam said:

The Blazer EV is around 300 miles and it’s perfectly fine for us.

It’s not awful, I just think that 350 is a better number because you can get a 300 mile range on an 80% charge. This is the best for the battery and 20% to 80% is the fastest charging program at nearly all the super chargers.

I feel like the manufacturers quote range like they quote EPA fuel economy range. They'll make a car that has 350 miles of range in ABSOLUTELY ideal conditions.

driver100 · July 19

tjc78 said:

@suydam said:

The Blazer EV is around 300 miles and it’s perfectly fine for us.

It’s not awful, I just think that 350 is a better number because you can get a 300 mile range on an 80% charge. This is the best for the battery and 20% to 80% is the fastest charging program at nearly all the super chargers.

That Dodge Charger Daytona EV with a great lease price only had a range of 200 miles, less 20% at 80% capacity and leaving 20% at the bottom leaves you 120 miles. I get the 350 miles and I would think that is the very minimal amount of mileage necessary.

suydam · July 19

tjc78 said:

@suydam said:

The Blazer EV is around 300 miles and it’s perfectly fine for us.

It’s not awful, I just think that 350 is a better number because you can get a 300 mile range on an 80% charge. This is the best for the battery and 20% to 80% is the fastest charging program at nearly all the super chargers.

We charge to 85% locally and to 100% on a car trip.

sda · July 19

I almost think it is false advertising stating a range say of 300, BUT, really it is 80% or 240 miles if you want the batteries to last.

corvette · July 19

IMO, the highway range test should be an 80 MPH cruise with several bursts up to 85. That would probably knock about 25% off the stated range, in my experience.

jmonroe1 · July 19

corvette said:
IMO, the highway range test should be an 80 MPH cruise with several bursts up to 85. That would probably knock about 25% off the stated range, in my experience.

————————————————
At that rate I’m going to gueestimate that @roadburner would deplete his battery in a 3 hour road trip. Because “several” to him is more than your “several.

jmonroe

ab348 · July 19

I have a laptop bought new in 2019 that came with Windows 10. When Windows 11 came along MS kept reminding me that it was eligible for an upgrade but I resisted for the longest time until a few months ago when I pulled the trigger. The upgrade worked reasonably well, with just one crash partway through. But it finally took and I've been using it since then. That machine only gets minimal use but even at that the changes it imposed left me cold - things like defaults for viewing pictures, how files get displayed when you want to see a directory, just basic stuff that used to be relatively easy - all seem worse. I'm sure there are workarounds but I just lose patience with it. It's the epitome of the old line "Everything is different, and nothing is better".

The main machine I use is an old Dell laptop from 2012. It has gotten increasingly slow and I get the feeling that it could pack it in at any time. I finally decided it was time and bought a new one from Dell, whose products always worked well before I retired and were about the same price as most other brands. It arrived yesterday. I have yet to take it out of the box. I just have the feeling that migrating all those files scattered over umpteen directories and external drives just will not be fun. I'm not looking forward to doing that nor in taming Windows 11 into something I can use. If I disappear for a while, you'll know what I'm trying to do.

corvette · July 19

@ab348 - I try to keep devices that use currently supported operating systems. Typically, MacOS and Windows support devices with processors that were released in the last 7-9 years. The lifespan for tablets and phones may be a bit less. Tech companies have gotten better about disclosing support lifecycles for products--e.g., Fire tablets are supported for at least four years after that model is last available to be purchased new.

imidazol97 · July 19

There are programs that will transfer most if not all programs and data from your old computer to your new one.

I bought an HP laptop to replace my old win 10. I have two other laptops to replace with newer 11 models, if I decide to replace both.

I plan to use pc transfer by EaseUS. I can buy the right to use the program for multiple pcs by paying slightly more. Just have to uninstall from first two machines, and reinstall on next two. It's the program most likely to transfer my MSOffice license.

roadburner · July 19

jmonroe1 said:

corvette said:
IMO, the highway range test should be an 80 MPH cruise with several bursts up to 85. That would probably knock about 25% off the stated range, in my experience.
————————————————
At that rate I’m going to gueestimate that @roadburner would deplete his battery in a 3 hour road trip. Because “several” to him is more than your “several.

jmonroe

Undoubtedly; we drive to Charlotte or Seabrook Island a couple of time per year. It usually takes 7-8 hours. We stop once around the halfway point and get lunch and fuel up the car. That usually takes no more than 30 minutes- tops. Then back on the road for another four hours or so non-stop.

tjc78 · July 19

My Son went fishing with his friend and our neighbor. Caught this 18” flounder.

My neighbor was nice enough to filet it for the kids and I cooked it up for them for dinner. Ocean to plate in less than an hour.

cdnpinhead · July 19

ab348 said:
. . . .the changes it imposed left me cold - things like defaults for viewing pictures, how files get displayed when you want to see a directory, just basic stuff that used to be relatively easy - all seem worse.

Just remember the mantra: "Everything's different, and nothing is better." Some years ago (probably ~15 at this point) Excel got an "upgrade" that was so obtuse that a cottage industry sprang up to help people find where the features they used had been hidden, particularly necessary for something used maybe a few times a year.

stickguy · July 19

you put the fish on the beer? That hurt me.

tjc78 · July 19

@stickguy said:
you put the fish on the beer? That hurt me.

I had nothing to do with the cooler arrangements. My wife said the same thing

suydam · July 19

roadburner said:

jmonroe1 said:

corvette said:
IMO, the highway range test should be an 80 MPH cruise with several bursts up to 85. That would probably knock about 25% off the stated range, in my experience.
————————————————
At that rate I’m going to gueestimate that @roadburner would deplete his battery in a 3 hour road trip. Because “several” to him is more than your “several.

jmonroe
Undoubtedly; we drive to Charlotte or Seabrook Island a couple of time per year. It usually takes 7-8 hours. We stop once around the halfway point and get lunch and fuel up the car. That usually takes no more than 30 minutes- tops. Then back on the road for another four hours or so non-stop.

Same with the Blazer. We stop, get lunch and walk the dog while we charge. So many charging stations are in malls now.

ab348 · July 19

imidazol97 said:
There are programs that will transfer most if not all programs and data from your old computer to your new one.

I saw the software touted by EaseUS but it wasn’t the thing you were discussing as it was supposedly free. However I was unsure about exactly what it did and how because the webpage didn’t inspire a lot of confidence, to be frank. It was all supposed to work automagically but I could find no online references to it saying it worked, which I would have expected.

A deeper dive into the migration process just confused me further. Some talked about needing a special cable to connect the two machines like it was 25 years ago. Some said there was no way to move installed programs from old machine to new, while others implied there was without saying how to do it. Nothing gave a clear path to follow. This is what I suspected from first looking into the issue months ago. You would think there would be a simple MS tool, but this is Windows of course where nothing is simple.

corvette · July 19

@ab348 - Recently upgraded my dad's Windows desktop, and, IIRC, the current EaseUS software will transfer over wifi. MS used to offer "Windows Easy Transfer" or something similar, but now deflects that to third party vendors like EaseUS. Apple is much better for a seamless transfer to a new device.

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