Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

jasmith52 · May 2005

I have been to a couple of slasher sales, mostly as entertainment. The idea is that slasher sales are a reverse auction and the hope is that as they slash the prices that buyers will compete to buy those cars at such great prices.

The reality is that a few cars actually get any competition from buyers, the rest go for the bottom line slashed price if they go at all.

rroyce10 · May 2005

...... That's kinda like the double handshake, a wink and a prayer deal ......

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2005

....... Some dealers try them once and like em' .. some try em' and hate em' .. it all depends on the volume and the figure's after 2/3 days ...

These aren't bad things, they just build traffic .. when I first got in the biz, the dealer principle would have a sale about every 6/8 weeks and it would increase sales by 12/15 cars a day over 3 days .. after 9/10 months it kinda burned itself out and we would only see an extra 8/9 cars over the 3 days and it wasn't worth paying the "Slashers " ... it's the excitement, people get interested and they buy your product instead of the one down the street ...

Toyota has been "famous" for their Tent Sales for years .. pool 8/9 dealers together, drop 250/350 vehicles at a Mall or a Fair ground, drop some double trucked Ad's, get some big balloons and some radio stations -- and "Wango Tango", you just sold 150/170 vehicles over 3 days .. not so bad.

Can't be any worse than the boat shows or the lady on the other side of town that's had huge "I'm Retiring and selling out" signs on her stores for the last 2 years ..l.o.l.....

Terry

bryan · May 2005

Here's my experience--I have an '04 GXP, and the car is simply awesome. I purchased the car two days before it even hit the dealer's lot one year ago tomorrow! GM had sent me a certificate that was good for the first two payments. I got $3K off the MSRP, $5K rebate, and first two payments, which amounted to a total of $9K off.

I was going to take the 0% financing when the rebate amount was $3K, but the week before I purchased GM increased the rebate to $5K. GM still financed me at a very competitive rate (matched my bank and credit union!), so taking the rebate in lieu of the 0% financing saved me a little of $1K over the life of the loan.

mpr · May 2005

I thought the dealer inventory tax is exactly that - the "dealer's" tax. There was a class-action lawsuit filed against 636 texas motor vehicle dealerships alleging that the dealerships committed fraud, conspiracy, and DTPA violations by passing on THEIR inventory taxes to consumers as an itemized charge in addition to the price of the vehicle. This lawsuit (Envo-Tech, Inc., Jett Jones, Sheryl M. Nickerson, and Leon M. Andrews, III v. Alford Chevrolet-Geo, et. al.) was filed quite some time ago and may have resulted in the Automobile Dealers Association lobbying Congress to pass a statute allowing them to pass their taxes on to us. And more than likely, they did.

I welcome any updates/feedback.

smithed · May 2005

"The same price for that recliner as everyone else who comes into the store", I have negotiated prices with furniture stores--no problem. I have bought recliners, couches, etc at below what they had on the "sale" tag. Cars have always been sold that way (except a few specific types), and most prices of anything are negotiable--you just have to decide whether the time to negotiate is worth it.
Since car prices are negotiable--get it for the least you are willing to put the time into.

Except the IRS--don't fool with them.

rroyce10 · May 2005

........... Whoa ... that's a reeeally old court case ... 97/98.?

That was a class action suite that struggled all the way to the Supreme court ... I don't remember anything coming out of it ..

Conclusion:
For the above reasons, we conclude that the Relators have not established their right to relief by mandamus on either the abatement issue or the discovery matter. Therefore, we deny the writ of mandamus.

Terry.

fungus440 · May 2005

There's a new 2004 CTS-V sitting on the dealer's lot with 300 miles on it. Still has the sticker on it and I've driven it. It has the sunroof option, so it's the $50K version. The dealer is the 'ship to' dealer on the sticker.

Since we're 8 or so months into the '05 model year, what price do you think they'd sell it for? I figure invoice is around $46-47. I'm curious how much the factory-to-dealer money for the 1 model year old vehicle would amount to. Current $1K incentive is on the '05s. I know this car has been eating at their floor plan for a while. Holdback should be around $1,400~.

Thanks.

typhon1991 · May 2005

I work at a GM dealer and looked up the incentives online. There is the hotbutton rebate of 1000 and Gm gavebuydown assistance of 1000 and most of the invoices were aroud 47,600 on a 51300 list car. You could probably buy for around 45500 plus tax. if it has never been titled, it has full factory warranty. Not a bad deal. It is a fast car. good luck

geo9 · May 2005

A Caddy dealer in Auburn NY has a NEW 04 V.
0 miles, sunroof, 53k sticker........Advertised for $42xxx !!!!!

kyfdx · May 2005

small print?

after $7000 customer downpayment

mirth · May 2005

...if your a recent college grad working on your new farm and doing your National Guard duty every other weekend...

jpmiller99 · May 2005

I work for a company eligible for the Supplier Discount from Chrysler.
On their website, it shows a $2500 rebate, $1000 bonus cash, and a $3500 discount from Chrysler for being part of the supplier program on the Chrysler T&C Limited.

My question is if these are Chrysler supplied discounts, will the dealer still be willing to discount off of MSRP, or is this similar to Fords X-Plan pricing where there is no negotiation?

michaellno · May 2005

My company also qualifies for the supplier discount from DC. My understanding is that the price is ((invoice - 1%) - rebates); at least, this is what we were told by a Jeep dealer last fall when my wife and I were looking at the Jeep Liberty. Rebates are any that you qualify for. Non negotiable, just like the GM Supplier discount and Ford X-plan.

mirth · May 2005

...you get the "plan" pricing PLUS the rebate.

michaellno · May 2005

mirth is right. let's use some (fictional) numbers:

MSRP - 25000
Invoice - 23000
1% of Invoice - 230
Rebate - 2500

Your cost, before tax and title fees, would be ((23000 - 230) - 2500) = 20270

Clear as mud?

cadillacmike · May 2005

in-between tours of duty in iraq and afghanistan!

jpmiller99 · May 2005

Thanks for the responses. I get it now. Now I just have to talk my wife out of the $40K Acura MDX, in favor of a T&C Limited for about 29K.

Jim Miller

bolivar · May 2005

and (around here), have been a member of the Amercian Quarterhorse Association for more than one month.

rroyce10 · May 2005

... **Since we're 8 or so months into the '05 model year, what price do you think they'd sell it for? I figure invoice is around $46-47. I'm curious how much the factory-to-dealer money for the 1 model year old vehicle would amount to. Current $1K incentive is on the '05s. I know this car has been eating at their floor plan for a while. Holdback should be around $1,400** ...
=========================================

04 still sitting on the ground..? ... nice vehicles and people like em' ... that said, unless your ego is bigger than your wallet I would looking for a nice pre-owned 04 CTS-V with 5/7/9k .. dealers are paying the $33/$34ish range for em' and I'm pretty sure you can get one in your driveway for "around" the $36/$37ish range ....

Terry.

purplebug · May 2005

I ordered my car (YEAH), what paperwork did I sign? There is no VIN number yet, because it is being ordered/built. All fees (or at least the ones I plan on paying) are listed. And then there is a price at the bottom, isn't that what I am supposed to pay. Now, I now that any other perks that are available during the time of delivery I can get, but I have another question. Supposedly my company is part of a program to get cars at special rates, not sure if belong to dealer discount program mentioned. I didn't do it before because, well, I didn't feel like it. If what I signed isn't a "contract" per say, can I now check out this special program go back to the dealer and say please give me these specials also?

Thanks

mirth · May 2005

...I say yeah you can. If it were a hot car, like the new Mustang GT or something, they probably wouldn't. This is not a diss on the Cruiser.

mattb5 · May 2005

I just bounght a NEW car out of state. I paid the delearship to have the car delivered. During the delivery, the transporter got into an accident. My car was damaged as a result. Upon delivery, the damaged appeared to minimal. I informed the dealer the next day and he asked me to obtain an estimate.

It turns out that $5000 worth of damage has been done to the car. The dealer has offered to pay to have it fixed (probably covered by the transporter insurance). I do not believe this is acceptable. The accident will lessen the resale value of the car and may have hurt the car in other ways not noticeable at this time. I believe that I ordered a "new" car and should receive one.

The dealership is unwilling to refund my money or replace my vehicle. I don't want to get lawyers involved, but does anyone know what I can do legally? Anybody have better suggestions of how I can return this vehicle for a new car or my money refunded?

robr2 · May 2005

Sorry to hear of the incident.

Have you already signed the papers and paid for it? If so, you own it and you'll have to deal with the transporter. IMHO, the dealer should help you get a settlement from the transporter.

Just out of curiosity, why did you buy out of state?

Good Luck.

mattb5 · May 2005

Thanks for your help. I received a loan and the credit union paid for the car before it was sent to me. The credit union signed some papers (I guess), but I have not signed any of the papers that the dealer sent me. I don't understand all those papers, but I still haven't signed anything agreeing to "accept the vehicle in its current condition".

Unfortunately, the transporter settlrment would only be the cost to fix it I am sure. It still seems like I am entiled to a "new and undamaged" vehicle.

I bought the car out of state, because my region does not make the color combination I wanted.

robr2 · May 2005

You must have signed a purchase agreement and the credit union must have paid the dealer - I doubt any dealer would put a car on a transporter and send it to you without getting those items.

If you don't understand all those papers - find somebody that does!! This is going to be interesting.

BTW, what kind of vehicle, what state are you in, and what stateis the dealer in?

kyfdx · May 2005

Unfortunately, I think the car is yours... You authorized payment from the credit union, and they forwarded that payment on your behalf... I believe your whole claim will be with the transport company and their insurance agent..

I'd get a lawyer to draft a letter, with a mention of diminished value.. Perhaps they can get the insurance company to get you a new car, in lieu of a diminished value claim..

Otherwise, your only recourse will be monetary..

regards,
kyfdx

stickguy · May 2005

but it will be interesting to see what the legal interpretation of the various papers in the deal is. In any case, the dealer should (and would normally) step up and get a replacement, mainly becasue you should be able to reject a damaged unit.

I once bought a Nissan that had to be dealer swapped. When it showed up, there were a bunch of scratches on it. The dealer refused to accept it, and sent it back and then found me a replacement.

I'm still fuzzy here on who you bought this from, and who got paid. If it is the dealer that it arrived at 9and they did a ealer swap), I still don't see why you get stuck, just because it was pre-funded.

Try this, you make a deal on a unit "on the back lot", and sign the papers on it while they prep it. When they bring it around front, it has body damage. Are you going to accept it with a "too late, you signed" reasoning?

isellhondas · May 2005

I think you own the car. Hopefully it'll be restored to new condition. I would make sure that you insist on the body shop that does the work instead of letting them pick the place.

Not the end of the world either. You could have just as easilly been rear ended at a light the day you bought it. It's just a car.

stickguy · May 2005

maybe just a car, but he paid full price for something that is now worth less (due to the damage).

Hey, this is America - Sue somebody!!!!!

mattb5 · May 2005

Thanks all. Just to clarify, the credit union paid the dealership the price of the car + a shipping cost. The dealer then hired a transporter to deliver the vehicle. The transporter got into an accident, ironically 10 miles from my house (it was delivered from NC to LA).

I personally have not signed anything to Toyota (the credit union may have). It is not the end of the world, but I saved up for a new car and that is what I should get. I only buy a new car every 10 years. You pay a premium for new cars because you know they have never been in an accident, have know scratches, etc. It seems like I should get what I paid for. If you buy a TV over the internet and it shows up broken. Wouldn't you send it back and get a new one?

scanty · May 2005

If you haven't taken possession of the vehicle (and it sounds like you haven't) you should be able to unwind this deal.

steine13 · May 2005

I'm with scanty. Here in MI, until you've driven the car 20 ft on a public road, there is no deal. Don't matter what you signed. I think you'll have to research the laws of the state where you bought the car.
Good luck,
-Mathias

boomchek · May 2005

True, you haven't physically accepted the vehicle yet so technically you don't have the vehicle in your possession, so technically even though you signed the papers you have not received the product mentioned in the contract ie: new damage free original vehicle. Somebody will take a loss here but it shouldn't be you.

What does your credit union have to say about this? Are they on your side as they are the ones lending you money on a now diminished value vehicle?

boomchek · May 2005

Also the car in transport wasn't registered to you yet, as in reg'd and insured under your name, was it? Was it being delivered to a dealer near you for you to pick it up or straight to your house?

Here a car is yours (customer's) once it's reg'd, the license plates are on it, and the customer ( or somebody) drives it off the lot, until then it's the dealer's.

mikefm58 · May 2005

I don't see what the big deal is. If it was a TV purchased over the internet, shipped, and arrived damaged. Refuse delivery, send it back, and it's up to the sender (dealer), to make things right. In my book, that means, sending another vehicle.

Who hired the transporter? The dealer. It's their problem. If the buyer hired the transporter, different story. If I were in your shoes, I'd make sure the dealer is aware I wouldn't accept THAT vehicle on any terms and that I'd expect a new vehicle reshipped. Any issues with the damaged vehicle are between the transporter and the dealer.

I'd bet there are state laws that apply here. Keep us informed on what happens.

robr2 · May 2005

Who hired the transporter? The dealer. It's their problem.

Not necessarily. Shipment of goods typically is FOB shipping point - free on board. Once it gets on the truck, it's no longer the shipper's goods - it belongs to the consignee.

I'm still surprised that the original poster hasn't signed any documents pertaining the the purchase of the vehicle. That smells funny to me.

volvomax · May 2005

I agree.
The dealer isn't going to give you a new car. Simply put, their insurance won't cover it since it was in the possesion of the transport co.
It is up to the transport co to make good.

I also find it odd that you claim not to have signed any paperwork pertaining to ownership of the car. I can't think of any dealer that would ship a car anywhere, much less cross country without the purchase order being signed and the funds in the bank.

In a perfect world the transport co would replace the car, but this isn't likely to happen either. They will fix the car, plus you might get something for diminished value.

rroyce10 · May 2005

......... Sorry to hear about the damage .... but I'm a little confused ..

..."it was delivered from NC to LA" ...

What vehicle can't be bought in California that can be bought in North Carolina .. and why would you ship it 2,500 miles..?

I'm not defending nobody here, but the dealer has his money, the transport company has been paid and they're on the hook for the damage and they're insured ....

Maybe I'm missing something here, it's early and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet .... 3 questions:

1.) who has the title..?

2.) who got the $5,000 .?

3.) what kind of car is it.?

more coffee ...

Terry.

manamal · May 2005

LA? I thought he ment Louisianna.

rroyce10 · May 2005

...... Maybe "Lower Alabama" ....................?

Terry :shades:

Kirstie_H · May 2005

Since we've talked a lot in the past about whether it's worthwhile to drive 250 miles to save $100, I thought I'd point out this very nice post from our pal mackabee outlining some reasons to buy locally, some of which haven't been brought up before:
mackabee, "Toyota Avalon: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #285, 24 May 2005 3:49 pm

blh7068 · May 2005

True, you haven't physically accepted the vehicle yet so technically you don't have the vehicle in your possession, so technically even though you signed the papers you have not received the product mentioned in the contract ie: new damage free original vehicle. Somebody will take a loss here but it shouldn't be you."

Thats what I was thinking...you've signed papers but havent taken delivery. I would think that could(would) be the out here.

Here in Oklahoma, delivery has been taken when the vehicle leaves the dealers premises. On one purchase, I wasnt picking up the car until the next day...but my sales guy insisted I "pull around to the front of the store" which required briefly leaving the premises.

I already knew what that was all about, but he told me why anyways.

Terry-

Has this poster already taken delivery, or for another reason is it just not applicable in this case?

kyfdx · May 2005

I think he took delivery when the car was put on the transporter...

It isn't a car being shipped from one dealer to another...

He bought the car in NC, even if he wasn't there personally... Dealers aren't licensed to sell out-of-state.. The sale took place in NC, whether he was there or not.

Not only that, money has changed hands (the entire amount, I believe). Not the same as just making a deposit.

I think it is between him, the transporter (and their insurance company), and possibly his own insurance company (if he needs their help).

regards,
kyfdx
(who thinks this stinks, either way.. condolences)

gogiboy · May 2005

" What vehicle can't be bought in California that can be bought in North Carolina .. and why would you ship it 2,500 miles..?"

Terry--you'd be surprised. I believe this individual said he had ordered a Toyota. In LA (Louisiana) he falls under the same Toyota jurisdiction as we do in OK. This five-state area is represented by Gulf States Toyota. GST operates independently of US Toyota and only orders vehicles with option packages that GST determines to be easily sold in this region. Thus, it is very hard to get AWD versions of Toyotas SUVs and even harder to get side airbags (with our wide open spaces we only have to watch for buffalo broad siding us)--or at least it was with the 04 Rav4 we were trying to get.

He could have ordered one, which is what we did, only to wait 6 months and have our local dealer state that GST wasn't going to honor our requisition. We briefly thought about getting one equipped exactly as we wanted in MD before coming to our senses and getting a used 02 instead.

I'm unaware of other manufacturers that do this, but Toyota lets GST operate this way and it can be a real hassle if you want a car that isn't packaged with X options simply because they are popular for the area, plus the Rav4 is manufactured in Japan, which adds another layer of difficulty. The other thing GST does is combine a lot of add-on "value" packages together that add profit, but not always value from the consumer's perspective.

Not being an attorney I can't help with the other discussion.

Gogiboy

robr2 · May 2005

I was thinking the same - trying to avoid the Gulf States or Southeast Toyota issues. But IIRC, the original poster said something about not being able to get the color he wanted.

bobst · May 2005

Don't put a large amount of money toward a purchase until you can see the item right before your eyes.

bolivar · May 2005

... very thoughtful -troll-?

He's thought up a scenero with complications....

And we're seeing people come down on all sides of this discussion.

rroyce10 · May 2005

... ** think he took delivery when the car was put on the transporter...** ..

Bingo ........!

Terry.

cadillacmike · May 2005

As to when or if he "took delivery", but this is one more example of why I'll never do something like this. I mean a one way flight would have cost less money.

I do recall a few years back that some dealer (or dealers) that received "damaged" bmws were repairing / repainting the damage and not informing customers, and someone got sued, don't know how it turned out.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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