Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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Comments

  • gallileogallileo Member Posts: 51
    All hogwash

    "All hogwash" is a pretty extensive claim. Let's break it down a little shall we?

    Is the claim that "one gets a very good deal" hogwash? I hear plenty of complaining about how the deals aren't the best one could possibly do, but do you really think that EDFE pricing isn't at least a pretty good deal?

    Or are you saying that the claim that "there is a minimum of muss and fuss" is hogwash? Customers are getting in and out in an hour or two without any negotation whatsoever. For that to be hogwash, there must be some sort of problems I'm not aware of. What muss and fuss exists that makes that claim hogwash?

    Or are you saying that the above two points are true, but that there is still no value in for the average consumer? Well, thousands and thousands of consumers are voting with their wallets that it is a good value. Are they deceived? I'm sorry, I have more faith in them than that.

    GM has done the same thing before.
    How's EDFE any different from Saturn's one-price pricing policy.

    The two are quite similar, but there are some very significant differences:

    First, you get EDFE on a much, much greater variety of cars and trucks, including most of the popular ones, not just some fairly new line of relatively small cars. If you are brand-loyal to GMC trucks, you can get a GMC truck under this scheme. That wasn't possible with saturn before.

    Second, it's clear that these prices are pretty darn good. One couldn't always say that about the saturn prices.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, if I sold 30 cars and made 3000.00, I wouldn't stick around and neither would any quality salesperson for long. If this is how this program works, it's a shame.

    I think GM made a poor decision for a short term gain. Now that the program is over the shoppers will demand it's return. The constant rebates and promotions like this do nothing for long term business.

    I used to work for a company that did the same thing. Mortgage tomorrow's business for today's shot in the arm sales.

    So...the quality salespeople leave only to be replaced with short term people who know nothing and will last three months.

    I hope GM can stay in business. I really do. :(
  • dsb2695dsb2695 Member Posts: 7
    Thank you, I know every sales consultant is compensated differently by their stores. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one losing while the manufacturer -Ford- and my store make money.

    Sure I made more in July than June. Units delivered increased 131%. Payable gross…well lets just say it didn’t increase 131%. Was not even close to 100%

    Reminds me of the 2 ways to make money “you can make a slow dime or 2 fast nickels.”

    Joe Verde and Grant Cardone need to go back to selling if they really believe a sales consultant can make 6 figures a year in today’s market.
  • kscctsksccts Member Posts: 140
    Well said!! ;)
  • basscadetbasscadet Member Posts: 146
    I'd drive a Mazda long before I ever bought a Mercury/Lincoln (garbage), Volvo (expensive garbage), or Jaguar (horrible cars). There isn't a Volvo/Jag/Lincoln in existence that is built as well as a Mazda6.

    Ford's meddling in Mazda engineering and production is minimal, that's why.
  • basscadetbasscadet Member Posts: 146
    You can still make 6 figures if you work for the right company. I know, we have one of those people in my store. ;)
  • toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    We have one in our store too. But he's also the top sales consultant in a company of over 1200 employees and had his own used car lot for over 20 years and is just one of those workaholics. It works for him and he has the personality and drive to do it. It isn't the norm nowadays though.

    Ken
  • magnahemimagnahemi Member Posts: 24
    A year ago when I read about the new 6.1 2006 300 C SRT 8 I called my Chrysler GM, whom I by all of my cars from, (2 dodges 3 chrylers) to order me one. I had just purchased an 05 300 C. January he placed the order and showed me the order sheet. Here it is August and no car. They have SRT status so they arn't considered a small dealership right? :confuse: He has said some really off the wall comments such as, " I want to wait to see what the auctions bring before I give you a price." This was after a salesman called me and told me $44K. I don't think the GM knew he called me. He would only give me the gas guzzler mark up on the sales agreement.($2500) The salesman told me that people are shipping the cars to Europe for $80K. :confuse: I see these cars on ebay all the time. From what I can see they arn't bringing much over sticker. (They are being cloned already) I'm certain the dealers are making more than usual but why the tactics? I know all about the "collectors car" status and manufacturing delays. This car will be obsolete in a year or less. The gossipy salesman also told me that some of the dealerships higher end clients were upset not to be able to order the car before me. Why can't they get one too? I told the GM I was talking to chrysler and I think he took it the wrong way and put my car in hold status. :confuse: Can he do that ? When I go to purchase this car, I have half of the cash or should I finance the whole thing and pay off the loan later? I also have a genuine friends and family discount, will I be able to use it on this high end purchase? Chrysler sent me an e-mail saying no but that was the promo.
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Member Posts: 458
    Actually GM has never done this before. The deal with Saturn is you pay what is on the sticker. This is you pay the GMS price on the invoice which is approx 5% under invoice. Big difference, I know this is going to raise a big uproar in here but the dealer, specifically the salesmen are getting the short end of the stick with this pricing. Salespeople get paid a percentage of the profit called a commision. When we sell under the GM employee pricing GM reimburses the dealer a percentage of the vehicle cost (not nearly as much as a retail sale) for doing the delivery. Sales people get a flat amount of money from the store usually around $100 per car sold. Do the math, you would have to sell 30 cars in a month to make $3000. Thats a lot of cars with little payoff. The stores aren't complaining that much because it is generating business and bringing in trades and lowering floorplan expenses. I know of alot of stores that have lost salespeople with this promotion because they couldn't make it. Remember rebates are from GM not the dealer. To sit here and listen to people complain about what a scam it is is frustrating. It is a tremendous deal and everyone knows they are getting a good price. All the manufacturer is trying to do get people into the showrooms who haven't been here in years and see that our quality and styling is greatly improved from 10 years ago.


    I wasn't talking about what commissions a salesman makes on EDFE vs Saturn.
    I was talking about the pricing policy. What that price is is rather irrelevant - whether invoice or MSRP or under invoice, or whatever.
    If you tell me EDFE is better than Saturn's policy because the products covered are more diverse and better, I'll certainly believe you but that's irrelevant to my point as well.

    My point is simply this.
    With EDFE you pay a set price + any options + doc fees for any car.
    With Saturn, you did the same.

    You don't negotiate anything with the dealer, except a trade in if you have one.
    (Actually you might negotiate for dealer installed options/financing, but that's also the same in both cases)

    And in both cases, a savvy consumer can get a better deal/better car for the money without these pricing policies. And a non-savvy consumer is benefited.

    I do agree that the salesmen involved would probably make less money with EDFE than with Saturn if he moves the same number of units, but profits from new car sales aren't what keeps dealerships in business from what I hear. It's the service departments and used car sales. So creating more floor traffic exposes more consumers to a dealership's more lucrative lines of business, which I believe is the main reason for this pricing scheme. If the number of GM vehicles on the road increases, everybody in GM benefits, with the possible exception of the salesmen who have to do more work and maybe not much more/maybe even less sales commisions.
  • dsb2695dsb2695 Member Posts: 7
    Just “one of those?” Out of how many sales consultants?

    Sure if you’ve been in the business 15 years, don’t take Ups and have the repeat and referral business with a closing ratio of 80% because you already have a report with them and they come to you as serious buyers, I’m sure it’s possible.

    I believe it was Grant Cardone who said, “if I knew how you bought your last car I’d know how to sell you this one.”

    Every store has a few that make good money but most don’t. That is why every store has their 15% staff that has been with them for eons and the other 85% are a revolving door.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yes you can make six figures. It takes the right kind of store and repeat and referral business. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, not EVERY store. We have a lot of long term people.

    I recently interviewed a guy from a nearby domestic store. He said they had, I think 25 salespeople. He had been there eight months and he said only two people had been there longer.
  • canukchickcanukchick Member Posts: 20
    Yes I guess I was. Unfortunately there were other people happy to pay what I wouldn't, and they now have a really nice car.
    My next alternative is now $2k more than what I could've bought the first car for!

    I guess I am learning the hard way. :(
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Member Posts: 64
    My point is simply this.
    With EDFE you pay a set price + any options + doc fees for any car.
    With Saturn, you did the same

    Sorry that I gave you more detail than you asked for. To answer your question. Yes. They are both 1 price no haggle pricing. The difference with Saturn there is between $900 and $1800 in profit built in. With the GM employee pricing there is not. The savy of the savy could not beat the GM employee price EVER.(not including any incentives) People use the rebate angle, but over half end up using the low APR from GMAC. That really didn't change over the last couple of months. So for most it is a much better deal. ANd as far as the savy shopper who will fight for that extra $300 off the price to put the deal together and then finances the car saves a whopping $6 a month on a five year loan, You wonder why there is so much turnover in the car business. :)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,796
    but are you sure of what they paid? maybe they caught a different salesperson on a different day and paid the $21K you already offered? Its possible.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • canukchickcanukchick Member Posts: 20
    I am only as sure as I am that the salesperson was telling the truth... I went back the next day tail between my legs and she said they had already bought it, and were taking delivery next week. She said they paid just over the $22.

    Market demand I guess!
  • nujeepnujeep Member Posts: 2
    i just bought a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee last wednesday from a local Jeep dealer. I started noticing oil leaking from underneath the vehicle the next day. I decided to wait a day to see if the leaking would stop. On friday, the leaking was stil occuring so i decided to call teh dealer back, at which time they told me to bring it in on monday to have it looked at. On monday i bring it in and they have kept all week long (it is currently friday), for a total of 5 days so far. I do not know when i will get the Jeep back and they have told me that the main rear seal needs to be replaced. i have read reviews from Yahoo Autos and people with similar problems have stated that this is a recurring problem for them and they have had to bring their vehicles to the shop multiple times and still without a permanent solution. Given that this is a brand spanking new vehicle, do i have any right to ask the dealer for an exchange? i would be more than happy to pay more if the next vehicle costs more, so long as it has no problems. will the dealer just laugh in my face if i ask him for an exchange?

    :sick: :lemon:
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Member Posts: 64
    As long as you get another vehicle from the same dealer, it probablly not be a problem. You need to address this issue quickly with management though. If they already sent the C of O into the state and paid the taxes, the jeep you just bought is technically used and will be harder to get out of. If they haven't done that yet, they can put the one you bought back in stock and have you pick out another one. You need to address it ASAP.
  • frnkrzzofrnkrzzo Member Posts: 87
    very altruistic sounding post...but a bit misleading. most everyone knows about the industry standard "$100" mini commision for a car salesman. from what i've seen and heard, most stores do a $150 mini on an employee pricing deal. also, there is usaully a 25% commision paid on top of that for any extra profit made, be it from giving less on a trade in, or profiting from dealer installed options. i've noticed, at least in the north texas area, there seems to be a whole lot of dealer adds on just about everything now. personally, my average commision was about $250 per unit before employee pricing. last month i averaged $375. all of a sudden, 20 cars a month isnt that bad. i'll ride this employee pricing train until the wheels fall off. if you are indeed getting $100 per unit (i sincerely doubt it), it may be time to look elsewhere.
  • frnkrzzofrnkrzzo Member Posts: 87
    i dont know about everyone else who commented on the gm eployee pricing scam, but i never said it was a bad deal for a customer. i call it a scam because gm changed the "employee price" when they went to it by means of changing the rebate. not 1 customer in the whole country actually got the "employee price". they got the "employee price" less a far lower rebate. to me, it's just misleading as all get out. but.....to each his own.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    There are quite a few salespeople who do make 6 figures.
    Course they aren't floor grunts selling Fords and Chevys.

    There is a big disparity in salesperson quality at the mass market stores. It will be hard to convince anyone with talent and a desire to make a good living to work in a domestic store from henceforth.
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Member Posts: 64
    So with independently operated stores how can there be an industry standard? Second you sell for a GM dealer and talk about this promotion like this? Please tell me how many digits are in you BAC? Just curious. :)
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Member Posts: 64
    I realize that some sales people don't know that so here is another easy question. When you have to print an invoice from a locate in dealerworld, what is the name of the link that you click on under sales? Just want to see if you really sell GM vehicles. If you don't know your manager will. I use it about 5-10 times per day. :)
  • dsb2695dsb2695 Member Posts: 7
    Thanks,

    I've been called a lot of things but not a "floor grunt." :)

    I think your right. I have a friend who sells for a local import dealer. Not even the largest in town. They don’t advertise for positions because they have a waiting list of sales people wanting to go to work for them. He makes about 3x what I do.

    Best part of all is the shortest tenure on staff is just under 3 years.
  • dsb2695dsb2695 Member Posts: 7
    Is it just my store or is it the market under all this employee pricing? Last month most of my deals either didn’t involve a trade or the trades were turds. Kind of hard to make any gross on a trade only worth $200.

    I had 3 consecutive deals with a total of 4 trades totaling $800. These are the customers that really did get great deals. One of these customers was such a bad pay, just to get FMCC to buy the deal he needed $2,000 down, had no cash so we gave him $1,500 allowance on his $200 and $300 trades. So FMCC bought it. Think he got a great deal??? :mad:
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Reply to 13377

    It doesn't look like any of the guys in the business have an answer for you. They are probably in disbelief that you haven't figured this out on your own.
    .
    I'm a consumer just like you but that's as far as it goes. Sounds to me like you have fallen in love with a piece of sheetmetal that has wheels, happens all the time. Bad, bad thing for you, a very good thing for salesman and dealers. The dealer that you thought was your friend, because of previous purchases, turns out that he isn't. Does this surprise any car buyer out there or just you? Salesman and dealers are in business to make money, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but you have to understand this. If the beauty you want is in such demand you are just going to have to wait and pay the freight when it shows up.

    As far as the GM putting the "car in hold status", again this doesn't sound like a friend to me. If I had a friend that did this, he's off my Christmas list NOW.

    How long do you want to wait before trying another dealer?

    Maybe you should try falling in love with something else. Kind of like when the girl you were giddy about in high school didn't look at you twice, so you moved on. This experience may be one of the best lessons to learn from.

    I'm going to make the assumption that you are over 25, therefore, I can't comprehend anybody at that age still doing flips over a vehicle of any type. I hope you get just as excited about being with your family.

    Somehow I don't think you are going to take any of this as advice but I sincerely wish you luck with your purchase.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    Yesterday I had a 02 GM a customer wanted to trade. Something is very hinky because the VIN plate in the windshield is gone and the VIN sticker in the door is also gone. It has a red sticker from the state of Michigan with a "VIN" that starts w/ MI instead of 1G as the other GM's start with. I did a bit of research and it seems this was a "re-assembled" vehicle. Is that correct? Carsmack showed everything O.K.(no rebuilt, flood, etc.). This is the first time I've ran across this.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Can you find the original VIN on the vehicle somewhere and then run a check?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    If its like Rhode Island, the state DMV removes the vin number and replace it with a salvage title vin number. Like you, I would be suspect.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    I ran it through GMVIS, which gives it's service history and it's not a "GM" VIN. I ran a Carsmack which shows everything OK, but Carsmack isn't the bible. I think it's "re-assembled" but I thought that would mean salvage. :confuse:
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    What does the title say?

    I think its a salvage car, wonder if he got it re-titled?

    Either way, I'd run from that car.
  • frnkrzzofrnkrzzo Member Posts: 87
    did i say i worked for gm?.......i do not. if i did, and made $100 per unit, i'd quit. i'm sure you would too. i was just pointing out that $100 per is rediculous. i could never effectively sell a product i didn't believe in. quit quizzing me and tell me im wrong, huh?
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Member Posts: 64
    i've noticed, at least in the north texas area, there seems to be a whole lot of dealer adds on just about everything now. personally, my average commision was about $250 per unit before employee pricing. last month i averaged $375


    Sorry that I took that comment as you saying that you worked for GM. I was letting everyone in this room know that the salespeople are suffering through this program that you keep refering to as a scam. It isn't. You are entitled to your opion but please don't misrepresent yourself.
  • newcarjanenewcarjane Member Posts: 2
    I am buying a new car, for cash and need help! Where do I start to get the best deal? Thanks Jane
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    It has a lien on it from a local CU that we do a bunch of business with. We will see the title on Monday. I'm sure were not gonna take it in, but we are following the VIN to see if we are missing something.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    What kind of car?
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    " Where do I start to get the best deal? "

    I doubt any newbie could get the "best deal". Even seasoned vets (who are consumers), are still amateurs. Remember, car salesman do this day in and day out. Folks like myself do this once every few years.
    .
    But to get a decent deal, I'd recommend a Carmax where they sell new cars or do your negotiating over the internet, that is if you can find a dealer that will do that. Just make sure they stick to what they agreed to.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Member Posts: 677
    Am wondering if the A3 is expected to be in short supply throughout early next year?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... **Something is very hinky because the VIN plate in the windshield is gone and the VIN sticker in the door** ..

    Oh yeah, something hinky here, no doubt ...... open up the trunk and look on the inside of the lid ....

    Terry.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .. **but a bit misleading. most everyone knows about the industry standard "$100" mini commission for a car salesman. from what i've seen and heard, most stores do a $150 mini on an employee pricing deal. also, there is usually a 25% commission paid on top of that for any extra profit made** ...

    That must be some aquarium you live in ..l.o.l.....

    Some dealers pay $50, others pay $100, some maybe $75, could find a few that might pay $150 ... as whole, $75 seems to be the going rate .... it all depends on the store, the management and their view of employee pricing ........ 25% on the extra profit ..? what extra profit ..? most stores have raised their pack by $350/$500+ and employee pricing has cut back the dealer profit by 2% ... now I "know" you're not in the car biz --- just some poster .... where do you guys come from.? ..l..o..l.....



    Terry.

    PS: that even includes north Texas ;))))
  • lr_saleslr_sales Member Posts: 13
    Our new car Mini is $75 used and service loaner is $200 so that is not too bad. Luckely PAG is not following Fords Employee pricing or whatever they are calling it plan.

    We get killed on packs though since the dealership takes between 1% and 3% of the sale price depending on model. No share of the F&I money for us either although we do get very good used and new car volume bonuses.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    The employee pricing has had no effect on us because our market is saturated w/ Caddy dealers. In the 2 years I've sold Caddys I've had 3 payable grosses on new. And that is w/ NO pack on new cars. My owners are very generous w/ minis so the GMS has been nice.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    I know the guy who owns this is some rich dude. Must be making a fortune on add-ons. But I wonder why some cars get adds and some don't. Went to three Toyota dealers back in March when I was interested in a Corolla CE 5-speed. One dealer had cars that had lots of GST options plus a lot of dealer options. I skipped that dealer, hit the next, where each car had a bunch of GST adds but not much more than tint for dealer adds. Then another dealer had a bunch of cars with almost no GST options but a bunch of dealer adds. I couldn't find any cars with no options (factory, port, or dealer installed). Every car had anywhere from $800 to $2000 in options excluding factory ones. It's sad. I get a price on Edmund's, $12K something for TMV, then can't find anything close to it. Now considering a Sienna CE (need 6 passenger or more) and having the same problem, can't find one with nothing on it. Should I try buying in another state or something?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ........ Base vans are hard to sell and most folks just don't want em', so most dealers just don't order them .. why pay floorplan on a vehicle that might sit 3/4 months .? ....... you can try another state(s) and see what happens ...

    Terry.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    is that true? gosh i'm one of those buyers like occupant1 that was completely, i mean completely turned off by the options. i know a dealer has got to pad his profit margin, but don't they reserve a population of vehicles for people like us?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .. **but don't they reserve a population of vehicles for people like us?** ..

    Actually, no ..... the market has changed by leaps and bounds since the first Dodge Caravan in 1983, when folks looked for manual trannys and 5 passenger people haulers and even that didn't last long .... your not a population, you're a small itty bitty market of 0.3% that doesn't come around enough to make it profitable for the manufacturers or the dealers .....

    Terry ;)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Dealer add ons are a rip off.

    Manufacturer options are something we have to live with. They figure most people will start out looking at base or close to base...see all the options they can get for only a thousand more...then see even more options for a couple thousand more.

    How much more money you think a manufacturer, then the dealership, makes on a loaded with options vehicle, and dealer add ons, as opposed to selling just the base? The base usually coming very well loaded.

    It's not about what the customers want...it's what they will buy.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Reply to 13412

    "Should I try buying in another state or something?"

    I'm just a consumer like you, so take this for what it's worth.

    I wouldn't buy something that I was dead set against either but is it really worth it to go to another state to buy a car? Unless the $800 to $2000 you mentioned is going to break the bank, sometimes these additional options are nice to have and can grow on you. Like when I bought my first new car ( 66' Bonneville) it sat on the floor with power windows, I didn't want power windows (some people back then said " they give you more problems than they are worth" ) so I was going to order one identical to it but without the power windows. I thought twice about this and since the dealer was willing to work with me over this option, I bought the car as it sat on the floor. I NEVER regretted this and now look at what has happened, almost all cars have power windows. Same kind of thing happened when the auto makers started providing most cars with power steering and power brakes, nobody would consider any vehicle without them today.

    I'm a little reluctant to say that without having a vehicle equipped the way most people want them will hurt resale value because if you are like me (and nobody wants to be like that) resale value doesn't mean anything, I keep my cars a lot longer than most. However, if you trade often you will probably regret having what is perceived as a "stripped down model" !!!

    Just my thoughts.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • gshocksvgshocksv Member Posts: 77
    I agree, some people have differenet priortities.

    I myself, and probably a lot of people cannot live without AC, power windows/locks/mirrors. just 3 years ago, I think power seats, memeory seats, and navi aren't worth the money. Now that I have a car with lumbar support, power/memoery seats, navi, premium sound, I feel they're necessities. I might still be ok without navi and premium sound, but I cannot live without lumbar support anymore, and memory seats are certainly very convenient especially after car wash or valet.

    I think my next necessity is going to be cooling fans under the seats, I could really use the cooling seats in this CA weather.
  • tigger10678tigger10678 Member Posts: 6
    I'm curious to know how much does tag, title and license fees usually run or is it a percentage of the purchase price of the new vehicle? If your financing a car how much does the document fees usually come to (ball park figure)? I know I have to pay the taxes up front in new jersey but can't I get the tags, title, and license from the NJ DMV myself? I am having troubles figuring out besides the down payment, what other fees you have to pay to the dealer when you sign the papers for a new car. :confuse:
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