Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

volvodan1 · November 2005

It all depends on the dealer. Generally the dealer will have volume bonus plans that also help. Also we are forgetting about used cars where there is generally more gross oppurtunity. 2/3 of my sales are used.

I actually don't mind selling new at my store. The minis are higher than most. But "Certified" and $10-15,000 less pursuades many to go 1 year old.

volvodan1 · November 2005

Every area is different. It's strange hearing this about Toyota. Toyota and Honda are the 2 volume stores in this area that don't have a dealer at every corner. To give you an idea there are 2 Toyota and Honda dealers in my area, but I am one of 5 Caddy dealers. :confuse: I can't even count the Chevy and Ford dealers!

british_rover · November 2005

is very small like most Land Rover stores. We have right now forty new and used cars in inventory so, obviously we do not have a lot of volume. We make it up in gross. Most of our vehicles sell for MSRP and the limited edition vehicles sometimes sell for over MSRP.

Then on our used car side we sell lexus and Land Rover. We don't hold much on the Lexus since there is a lot of competition for that but we hold a ton on the Land Rover side since there is zero competition for certified Land Rovers around here.

We have a new car mini but I have never gotten one since we always have a tone of gross. I have gotten a lot of used car minis but those are ok since they are 200 dollars.

isellhondas · November 2005

Oh, I do this all of the time! Sometimes they listen and sometimes they go ahead and bury themselves.

isellhondas · November 2005

That's too bad...just cheapens a great product.

volvodan1 · November 2005

LOL.......that happens all the time. One of our customers has a 84 month/950 per month loan on a new Caddy. He had 2 vehicles that he traded that he was upside down on. We tried to tell him!!!!! About a year later he came back in wanting to trade down because he wanted to buy a house(lived w/ parents previous). Between being buried at least $15,000 and his debt to income, if he wants to move out in the next 5 years, he's gonna have to move into his Escalade!

kdhspyder · November 2005

Here's another strange situation that I found when I began working here. All the internet sites have the exact invoice info on every current Toyota model. Edmunds here for example has the same precise codes and MSRP's and costs for every single item. Why? How?

Well it wasnt industrial espionage and they dont buy every Toyota made in a current year. They get the exact invoice data directly from Toyota!!!

Are other manufacturers so forthcoming?

This gives any buyer all the info needed to make any deal a mini. This amazed me when I started. In my prior career this was some of the most carefully guarded in data in the company.

Does Dell have its cost info on some website? Does GE? US Steel? I believe that there is something longer range at work here.. but it's just my opinion.

audia8q · November 2005

I believe that there is something longer range at work here.. but it's just my opinion.

Your thinking is correct. The mfg's would love to have full control over distribution. They have visions of all that dealer money becoming their own.

mark156 · November 2005

Kdhspyder, Audia8q, it happened in the travel business, so put on your seatbelts, it's going to be a rough ride! :P

Mark

british_rover · November 2005

I got my first auto show, as a salesman at least, coming up in a week or so. What are like the worst case scenarios I can expect from people? Just intersted in what some of your experiences were.

isellhondas · November 2005

Stay away from the cars that attract the kids and dreamers.

Hand out lots of cards and be prepared for THOUSANDS of questions some of which will leave you scratching your head.

Some guys enjoy working the Car Shows. Me, I do too for about two hours. After that, I'm done!

british_rover · November 2005

Well we only have three models and none of them start under 40k so I am not sure if that helps or hurts me. We will probably have a Superchareged Range Rover Sport there too so I know we are gonig to get a lot of dreamers for that.

kyfdx · November 2005

It depends... Will the cars be open? Can people actually sit in them?

If not, just leave your cards in a rack, and take the day off...

mark156 · November 2005

I usually go to the Los Angeles car show every year. It's funny, the Mercedes are locked up tighter than a drum. The Bentley's and Rolls are cordoned off and will let one or two people at a time to look at the cars.

I have seen a few of the cars (Chevy's, Fords, Nissan's, etc) a little trashed. All of the shift knobs are gone, etc. I'm not sure if the dealer is removing them or they were stolen.

Anyway, I think I would be like Isell, I would do it for a couple of hours then I would tire of it. :sick:

Mark

fitguy · November 2005

"Does Dell have its cost info on some website? Does GE? US Steel? I believe that there is something longer range at work here.. but it's just my opinion."

I frequent Edmunds but just stumbled into this post and your quote struck a nerve- I am an equipment dealer in a different industry and have been mystified as to how the auto manufacturers get away with disseminating that cost info. Great for the consumer; horrible for the sales rep. If I had to sit across from my customers, have them pull out my cost sheet, and tell me they think I should only make $200 on a $40K sale, I would be hard pressed not to want to do them bodily harm. And I only sell to commercial clients, where the negotiating is already a brutal battlefield- to have Mrs. Jones walk in ready to beat me up would just blow my mind. My hats off to you guys- I think the buying public really needs to appreciate how hard many car sales pro's are working to support themselves and their families! :shades:

kdhspyder · November 2005

Agreed.. my previous position was a VP Sales for what is now the largest steel company in the world. Negotiations tooks hours to weeks to months and nothing was ever divulged. Selling $50 Million of steel to Ford was easier in a way than a $14K Corolla or the toughest .. a $19K Camry..

isellhondas · November 2005

Oh, I remember the LA shows. Born and raised in San Pedro and I never missed a year. Leaving a expensive car unlocked would be a big mistake. People just don't care!

mark156 · November 2005

Just curious, what happens to the cars that are at the car shows? Are they considered demo's? Sold as new since they don't have miles?

I would NEVER buy a "car show" car unless it was a beautiful, untouched, Bentley Continental Flying Spur at a $50,000 discount! :P

Mark

luvcars2 · November 2005

As a dealer, what do u consider an adequte amount to make off a car? And is there anything I can say to make the saleman cut through all the bull and give me a reasonable quote.

kdhspyder · November 2005

Like all things, it depends. First answer..

What are you buying.. generic 4 door? hot roadster?
What time of month is it.. last weekend or last days?
How hot is the car? GT? HHR? Prius? MSRP everyone else is
What type of dealership is it and how big are they?

If you've decided on the product and place you want, call ahead or walkin and ask for the Manager. Then ask for their best salesperson. It shows that you are interested in doing business in that place. You'll be amazed at the different reception you'll get plus you'll get knowledge, confidence and smooth paperwork.

Do your homework and be friendly!!!!!! Here's a surprise noone anywhere wants to work with a person who's going to be nasty all the time they're together. It cuts both ways too. If the salesperson is not interested or unfriendly ask for another person if that's the place/product you want. It's your money and there is NO SALE unless you say yes so like in a restaurant if the server is not good ask for another one. It's not a big deal.

Be relaxed.. From CSI reports it's a good experience for 90%+ of buyers. Be prepared and keep your eyes/ears open as in all things. The horror stories are real but some are genuine misunderstandings and some are caused by the buyers too.

From the other side. The easiest people to sell and the people most fun to work with are the self confident ones.

rroyce10 · November 2005

... Depending on the store, the product and what part of the country, most dealers have to average in and around the $1,8/$2,000 figure across the board ... that means this guy might pay $500 over invoice and the guy 3 desks away might be paying $1,700 .... depending on the store, they keep a running average on a day by day basis .. dealers and the sales managers don't want to sitting around on the 28th of the month and find out they just lost $65,000 and they only have 2 days to go ..l.o.l..

Keep in mind, Kdhspyder is new in the business and a "part-time" salesman at a Yota store and what he see's is indigenous to his store, not the vast market ...

Terry.

rroyce10 · November 2005

.. **RTJ's are absolutely incredible.
If you ever get the opportunity, play The Judge in Prattville.
I've played better RTJ's than the one here in Huntsville, yet, it's still a very nice course.**

They just played the open there last weekend, right..? ... a few weeks ago I played Backbreaker, Mindbreaker and the Heartbreaker .... now I know where they get those crazy names .l.o.l....

Terry.

bobst · November 2005

"And is there anything I can say to make the saleman cut through all the bull and give me a reasonable quote."

No, there is nothing you can say, so don't even try.

isellhondas · November 2005

They are sold as new cars. Actaully, they usually don't get beat up all THAT bad. Depends on how much abuse each car took.

rroyce10 · November 2005

..... I can tell by the "tone" of your posts that you just hate the car shows, I can understand that ... me personally I used to love em' when I was on the floor, of course I knew quite a few salesman that just haaaaated to go .... better left at the store ..l.o.l...

Terry

isellhondas · November 2005

No, Terry..."hate" is too strong of a word to use here.

This is the first year I've missed in ten years. I had actually planned to go on sunday for a few hours but I had two cars to sell instead.

I just get weary after a couple of hours of the non stop questions.

jipster · November 2005

"And is there anything I can say to make the saleman cut through all the bull and give me a reasonable quote"

"no, there is nothing you can say, so don't even try."

Actually, that's not true...don't see how you can speak for other peoples sales transactions. :surprise:

When my wife and I were out looking at minivans we stopped at the local Honda dealership and test drove an Odyssey.
We liked it o.k. We expressed interest (had come back a second time to look at it), it was the 2004 Ody that apparently wasn't selling that well in July. We had our kids with us. My wife was the one that pretty much got our salesman(a nice guy) to cut through the bull. She said something along the lines of "We are tired, our kids are going crazy, we have excellent credit.We can put 10k as a downpayment. We are leaving in 5 minutes...if you can bring us your absolute best price we will consider buying it." The salesman came back in about 5 minutes and did indeed have their best price. Which was invoice on an 04 Honda Ody LX...which included about $1,700 in dealer add on's (i,e fabric protection, mud flaps. pinstripes etc) He wrote BIG $4,000 discount on the top of the proposal and said that was their final price. It included 4.9% financing. I told him that was indeed a very good price and would go home to check on his figures then let him know later that day. Well, there was an extra $500 cost in the finance part of it that I didn't think should have been in there. But, in the end we decided that the Ody was not the van for us. We tried to talk ourselves into likeing the lack of exterior styling in the van, but just couldn't do it.

So, I would say there are things you can definitely say to cut through the bull. First, you need a vehicle that dealers are really wanting to move out. Then convey a sense of urgencey as well seriousness and ability to purchase. This will probably only work in a smaller number of cases..but never hurts to try.

volvodan1 · November 2005

Do your research and make an offer..... and be prepared to buy. There is "conveying a sense of urgency" and there is saying "I will buy now for $xx,xxx".

kdhspyder · November 2005

Rejoinder..

Keep in mind, Terry has been in the business longer than my 6 years. He may be doing things the old ways which may work in his market.. but the world might be shifting under his feet.

It's why there are differing views on these message boards.

cuteraquel · November 2005

I have to say that I respect car salesmen. They are people doing a job, not out stealing or begging. They have families to feed, bills to pay just like the rest of us. I think their job is very hard. They have to know so much about the cars their dealership carries. Most of the time they just make comission and their boss doesn't care if they can't pay their bills. The dealerships esentially get someone to tell the customer all the information they want to know about the car for free. What other product do you ever buy that the sales person knows so much about the product (granted there are some sales people that don't know as much as we'd want them to or will tell you things that are not accurate), and that the Company is not paying them for the time it takes them to inform you on their product. Regardless of what other's experiece has been I have always had a good experience and if the sales associate goes above and beyong aswering my questions and taking alot of his time to make sure I am getting the right car I TIP him, yes tip. Is that so horrible! Think of all the people we give tips to that don't spend half the same amount of time to answer our questions. Even if I don't buy a car I like to give the sales man five bucks if he has earned it by telling me all he knows about the cars on his lot. Also, down with managers!!! They're the ones everyone should be mad at because they are the ones telling the salesmen how to act, what to say, and what to do. They also fire sales men on the spot because they know they can just get another person to fill their shoes and not have to pay them a penny unless they sell something. I want to see a dealership pay their sales people for properly informing the customer about their product. And on top of that give them their commission when they make a sale. But I also would like to end world hunger and war. I guess I'm just a dreamer.

OH, I did have a question! :P I found a dealership that offers FREE TIRES FOR LIFE with purchase of new car and if you do all your maintenance work with them, but they are too far away from me, would it be silly for me to think that maybe a dealership close to me (of same manufacturer) would honor the other dealerships promotion????? :confuse:

kdhspyder · November 2005

FREE TIRES FOR LIFE with purchase of new car and if you do all your maintenance work with them,

There is one auto group in our area that offers this perk but as you say you have to do all the maintenance at their store.. ALL of it..at full retail prices.. if you miss one interval you lose the right to the tires for life. read the fine print. Most other stores have some special perk to remain competitive. Ask around.

manamal · November 2005

Also, you need to know what kind of tires you get. There are good tires and there are cheap tires.

cuteraquel · November 2005

I don't know anything about tires, so I guess I would have to do research and make sure they wouldn't affect the way my car drives or performs. - Thanks!

dino001 · November 2005

I was always laughing at those "tires for life" gimmicks. I never expect things like that to be practically enforcable after 2-3 years. Didn't even know that they attach full paid maintenance performed in their garage, which explains a lot to me. If it sounds too good, it usually is.

My rule is that I would go for the cheapest transaction (within reason, of course - no sense driving 3 hours one way to save $100), as defined by price, financing and trade and consider "perks" only as tiebreakers.

I wouldn't bother with those tires - if you really need something free, couple of oil changes (first year?) or other more immediate maintenance is probably better deal. Perhaps you could use this tire program as a leverage with your local/preferred dealer?

sbell4 · November 2005

I have played the Judge and I will not be back.....215 yards over water to a par 3.....the only hole I made birdie on that day (go figure)...ended up shooting in the 90's

Ross Bridge in Hoover is where the Brunos is going to be moved to is the 3rd longest course in the world....that was also painful for me..but I had to play it because it was new.

Give me the Vegas courses any day of the week for the most fun and scenic but we are fortunate to have a lot of nice courses (public and private) in driving range.

jasmith52 · November 2005

Those Free tires may cost you dearly.

Oh sure the tires may be free BUT...

you'll probably pay more for your car than if you shopped around. You'll probably pay more than the tires cost balancing and rotating the tires at the dealership.

Just look for a great price on your car and worry about the tires when the time comes

Per the "Cut through the bull" statement I agree with Bobst. It's part of the game that we have chosen by buying from dealerships that support this stuff.

bobst · November 2005

I stand corrected, Jip. I agree, if you want to throw a hissy fit, maybe the dealer will give you a good price just to avoid a scene.

mark156 · November 2005

Cuteraquel, I really don't see a point in tipping with cash, I would feel uncomfortable in doing that. It's the salesmans job to explain everything, that's why he earns a commission.

On the other hand, I buy my Mercedes service advisor a $100.00 gift certificate at a nice casual restaurant in our town every Christmas. This guy is really nice, has a wife and two kids and really tries to get things done right.

After I bought my two Jeeps (same salesman in '96 and '99) I bought him a gift certificate to a restaurant and he seemed very appreciative.

Mark

Kirstie_H · November 2005

A major news magazine would like to hear from consumers who are thinking about/planning to sell/trade in their SUVs (and similar large gas-guzzling vehicles) for more fuel efficient cars. If you have a story to share with the reporter, please respond to pr@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info., the make/model that you are getting out of and which more fuel-efficient vehicle you are now looking for, no later than EOD Thurs., November 10, 2005.

boomchek · November 2005

Wow, you seem like a customer we'd all like to have. I do get gifts from some of my customers occasionaly which makes me put them in my good customers file.

Speaking of free tires for life, there was a local Mazda dealer doing this promotion as well not too long ago.

However even if that dealer's price is the same as other Mazda dealers, the tires are good only if you keep that car for life. Who keeps a car for longer than 4 or 5 years now anyways? You'll never benefit the program because by the time the tires need changing, you'll probably want to trade your car.

And if one decides to keep the car a long time and goes through a set of tires every 4 years (valued at $400?), it doesn't add up to much even after 20 years ($2000). Take a discount instead.

Too many risks and variables involved that would void the offer: missing maintenance, accident/write off, trading in the car, transferring it into someone else's name, etc

cuteraquel · November 2005

thanks for your input! I apreciate it. I think I will use it more of a bargaining tool. Maybe I can get them to give me some free oil changes. I meant I tip the sales people at the different car dealerships that take their time (usually several hours) to answer all my questions about the cars I am interested in and take me for a test drive etc. Because in the end I will only chose one car and the other sales people will not get a comission but still did a lot of work. Thanks!

jipster · November 2005

"I stand corrected, Jip"

Yes..you do. :P

But, to correct you even further, there was no "hissy fit" involved. My wife stated in a calm, firm ... yet pleasant voice... that we wanted their bottom line price.

Why you are "assuming" a hissy fit was thrown...one can only "assume"

isellhondas · November 2005

I hope I never get a customer who offers me a cash tip. I would be embarassed and I would refuse it.

mikefm58 · November 2005

You and I are on opposite ends of the scale. You spend a lot of time with the sales person asking questions, making sure you get all the information from them that you need to make an informed decision.

No dis-respect to the folks in the biz here, but to me the sales person isn't needed. He's just the person I make my offer to, nothing more, nothing less. I've already researched to death on the internet what I want, what I will spend for it, and how I will pay for it. I just need the short test drive to confirm / deny what I already know about the vehicle.

mrsacks1 · November 2005

In August I was sent by random selection, a Customer Service Satisfaction Questionnaire, which I filled out honestly (meaning I was not thrilled, but offered constructive criticism) and returned it to Toyota Corporate Hdqts. I later learned this week when trying to get warranty repairs which they did not want to do, later said they did, but did not actually perform, that I was listed in the dealers computer as a "chronic complainer", that my "negative feedback" cost the service advisor $200. (This is the dealership that I purchased and had my car regularly serviced.) Without saying so, the Service Manager pretty much left me with the feeling that they didn't want my business and I could forget about getting any warranty work done there. Ever heard of this? Is this common practice to share an individual customer's feedback (negative) that will be used to retaliate against the customer? :confuse:

tomliv · November 2005

Hmmm ... I have a BBB arbitration hearing next week over an interior noise issue that Honda says is completely normal for a new car (after trying to fix it 5 times). I wonder what list that'll put me on ...

aman74 · November 2005

I've got an '01 Sentra SE 2.0 that I leased in late '01 for 4 years. Lease is up on December 25th, I owe one more payment.

Residual is around 7400. There is a buyout fee of $150. I leased through Nissan Finance. I only have 30,000 miles on it and it is in great shape except a couple scratches. TMV and blue book says the value is 1-2k more than residual, but I don't think an '01 would go for that, although it has the moonroof and alloys etc...

My questions:

-Do factory rebates apply to leased vehicles? Nissan is giving 1500 on '06's and 2500 on '05's. One dealer told me no. I want to negotiate the price including rebates and then work out the lease from there.

-I'm hearing from dealers that there's no 05's around. Should I insist on having a locate done to get more rebate? I get the feeling they just want to move what's on the lot.

-Nissan is offering this lease currently http://www.nissanusa.com/buying/SpecialOffers/0,,53011,00.html#21111 It looks to be a subsidized lease which is supposed to be good? When they have these offers are they still negotiable?

-My dealer is offering a "deal" currently where they buy back your lease at 100% of market value and they said they would knock of the last lease payment and any equity in the car above residual would go towards my new deal. I'm leary of anything that ends the lease early and supposedly takes care of old payments. Does this sound legit? What should I watch for? Deal ends Sat. the 12th. Supposedly anyhow.

-I have contacted Nissan finace with some questions, but for the most part they seem to prefer I deal with the dealership. The car isn't the dealerships at this point. Can't I deal directly with Nissan finance if I decide to purchase my current vehicle?

-My credit is excellent, but I am currently unemployed so financing without a co-signer will be tough. I can get one if I absolutely have to, but Nissan has already pre-approved me and said I need no co-signer so my incentive to stay with them is strong. I don't have alot of leverage to walk away and seek out a different brand unless anyone knows where to get good financing with tier 1 credit, but no job.

Sorry this is so lengthy, I don't know where else to get the info. I have done much research, but it's hard to nail down specifics. What is the best time frame to get this deal done? Lease ends in about 6 weeks.

Thanks to all!

Anthony

rroyce10 · November 2005

.... Obviously you're using the "rule of 21's" for your answer (that means: talking with 21 people until someone agree's with you) .. cuz' you've been all over the boards with the question ....

Terry.

aman74 · November 2005

That's not too fair and also untrue.

What am I looking for someone to agree with me about? They are questions.

I noticed that alot of these forums are pretty slow, so I thought I'd try some others since I have yet to get specific answers. I'm sure u are more knowledgable than I, so why didn't u just address them initialy?

I also mentioned cross posting as well and u said nothing.

I see your type on all kinds of forums, thanks anyways.

black_tulip · November 2005

I see your type on all kinds of forums, thanks anyways.

Really? I thought Terry, who helps thousands of strangers by giving them real world trade in values, would be an unique and pretty rare individual.

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