Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

aman74 · November 2005

Well I guess Terry doesn't like me then.

Can't say I understand his aggression towards me.

I'm just looking for answers from those more knowledgable.

isellhondas · November 2005

That's not it.

There is no clear and concise aswer to your question. It would seem you want one of us to tell you..."Here is what you should do!"

Being unemployed puts you at a trememdous disadvantage here. You are not in a position of strength as your lease nears it's end.

My suggestion would be to ask Nissan to extend your lease for a few months. Hopefully, you'll find a job during that period which will greatly increase your options when the lease extension ends.

I didn't see any "aggression" on Terry's part, just frustration.

aman74 · November 2005

Ok, I tried to be concise. Sorry if i was not. As far as the job, I can be financed through Nissan with Tier 1 credit and pre-approval, so no problem there, it's just that I stated going elsewhere would be a problem.

My most importand question is can the rebates be applied to MSRP when leasing? If someone can answer just that one it would be greatly appreciated, anything else would be icing on the cake.

I'm not asking anyone to tell me what to do. I got a nice deal on my first lease, just have some specific questions this time.

One dealer told me that I can't use the factory rebate and from what I know this is incorrect, but I wasn't positive.

I've also seen alot of advice on here to deal directly with the finance company. In my calls to Nissan Finance (NMAC) they said they will not and that I have to go to the dealership. Maybe Nissan is different?

And I had that concern about there special deal, was wondering if that sounded right to people.

I guess I don't think these questions are so out of the ordinary.

Peace

Anthony

british_rover · November 2005

That sounds a extreme. We see all of the comments and scores from both Sales and Service CSI reports and seriously negative ones or seriously positive ones are flagged for our attention. We would never discuss the consequences of the report with the customer though.

We actually have two surveys that we use. An initial call survey and then a written one that goes out a couple of weeks later. If we see a very negative initial call survey we will give a follow up call to the customer to try and improve the written survey that is coming.

How low of a score did you give the service people if there was a number score associated with it?

kyfdx · November 2005

As far as the rebates on a lease? It really depends on the individual car and lease program...

Some cars have incentives built into the lease program, so that you can't take the rebate and the special lease program.. However, a similar model (even from the same manufacturer) may not have any special lease incentives, and you can take advantage of any rebates..

If you've posted in the Lease Questions forum, Car_man can give you answers, as they relate to specific models...

In other words... the answer is: It depends

regards,
kyfdx
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aman74 · November 2005

Yeah I posted in the Nissan Lease section and purchasing at the end of lease section and didn't hear from car_man.

And people didn't care for my multiple posts so I'm afraid to put this anywhere else.

I gather from what you are saying that for some subsidized or subvented leases, like the one I linked to that the rebate may not be available.

However, would you say that if I were to go in and just talk about price and deal on the MSRP and get the rebate that I could lease then and see if the numbers beat the subsidized lease?

aman74 · November 2005

When I go to lease questions it gives me this:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ee9c367!conflimit=.ee9c367&make=CATS&model=L- easing

And says there are no discussions, that's why I posted in Nissan Leases originally.

Thanks

Anthony

kyfdx · November 2005

The Nissan lease forums is the place to be... Car_man is a busy guy, but he will get to all of the posts...

If you post in a specific model lease discussion, and ask about a specific model, he will have the answer for you..

Most dealers are pretty upfront about rebates.. If they are customer rebates, and not factory-to-dealer incentives, they pretty much have to give them to you, if you are eligible..

regards,
kyfdx
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aman74 · November 2005

Thanks!

Anthony

bdr127 · November 2005

How low of a score did you give the service people if there was a number score associated with it?

It really doesn't matter how low the score was.... Anything less than a perfect score is considered "failing" in the manufacturer's eyes.

As a result, yes, the service advisor or salesperson won't get paid. It's an unfair system, but all manufacturers use it, and the dealership employees are forced to play by their rules.

From the service advisor's or salesperson's perspective, they certainly would not want to personally work again with a customer that resulted in not getting paid. Obviously the manufacturer and probably the dealership wouldn't like them turning away service work. It isn't right, but I sort of can't blame them...

mirth · November 2005

A survey that is not anonymous is worthless. Why would I fill out a survey honestly for a place that I may have to return to? Yeah, I'd want to take my car back to some people that I criticized - not. So I have two responses when I get surveys from my dealer - if I liked the service I give them all top scores, otherwise I trash the thing.

Having said that, I think a survery (or multiple surveys) would have to be pretty harsh for the service advisor to blacklist someone. Are you sure you didn't question whether his parents' were married when he was born or anything?

bdr127 · November 2005

Having said that, I think a survery (or multiple surveys) would have to be pretty harsh for the service advisor to blacklist someone. Are you sure you didn't question whether his parents' were married when he was born or anything?

Like I said in my previous, with the way the manufacturers have set up these surveys, it doesn't matter if the customer rates one question at 4 out of 5 and all the rest of the questions at 5 out of 5. In the manufacturer's mind, if all of the questions do not receive the top score, then the whole survey is considered "FAIL"...

As I said before, too, it's an unfair system, but all manufacturers use it, and the dealership employees are forced to play by their rules.

kdhspyder · November 2005

Ask the dealership.. often the wording is
$1000 rebate or 3.9% for 60 mo's or special lease. These cannot be combined.

The rebate is normally for Cash Buyers or those with their own financing ( Cash Buyers to Nissan )

mitzij · November 2005

On GM surveys, the customer can mark a box and he becomes anonymous. I like to know who flamed me so I can analyze my actions with that customer and try to improve. I want to know where I screwed up.

I would never black-list a customer because he flamed me. My decision to goodwill a repair may be colored by his response to a survey :P , but I think it might be against our franchise agreement to refuse warranty repairs on (in my case) Chevrolets. At the very least, it would be a foolish business decision. If I turned away everyone who was obnoxious, overbearing, suffering from OCD, crabby, or weird, I wouldn't have many customers.

jipster · November 2005

With all due respect,why do some of you guys in car sales have to give someone asking for help such a hard way to go? aman74 asked for some simple advice(what this discussion is all about) and is met with sarcasm, apathy and rude comments. Terry represents Edmunds as he answers questions in the "Real World trade values" discussion. So, for him to answer the way he did is a poor reflection on Edmunds. It took our host,kyfdx to step in to help this guy. If "some" of you guys don't want to be helpful...perhaps you need to reread the title of this discussion.

isellhondas · November 2005

But I guess you didn't notice that?

I've never heard of blacklisting a customer because of a bad survey. I do know if a customer gives me a bad survey that I didn't deserve, I really have no interest in selling that person another car.

I have about the highest scores in the store and I like to keep it that way. If I get a nasty combative customer, I would rathernot sell that person a car. I never want one of my customers to leave unhappy.

No sale is worth that.

kyfdx · November 2005

... the thought that you could suffer retaliation for being honest on a survey? I always assumed that they were anonymous...

So much for the survey trying to improve the actual service experience....

regards,
kyfdx

audia8q · November 2005

I always assumed that they were anonymous...

All 5 of our mfg's post returned surveys...We see it all. Even the hand written comment section. This is always my favorite part. Most folks are honest, some malicious and some are funny. Some of the "regulars" like to have fun with the comment section.

kyfdx · November 2005

I don't think I'll be filling out any more of these... unless I have reason to really kiss up to someone.. :surprise:

isellhondas · November 2005

I'm not afraid to sign my name to anything I write.

jipster · November 2005

"But I guess you didn't notice that?"

Yeah...I noticed isell. That's why I put "some" salesmen were not being helpful.

Those customer surveys sound like a bunch of bull. One score that is not perfect and you fail?? Our saleswoman did a very good job when selling us our MPV. She mentioned the survey in somewhat joking manner,(I thought at the time),saying she wanted us to give her all 10's or whatever the highest score was. There were 3 or 4 areas that I honestly had to mark down slightly. If I had known then what I know now, I would have given her a perfect score.

Oh, and that working on "commission only" for salesmen is bull too. The salesperson represents the dealership, as well as brings in money for cars that are sold.Even if a car is not sold they are performing a service for the manufactuer as well as the dealership. One of the older salesmen I worked with said he had to put up ballons on all the new cars as it was Memorial Day. You think he got paid for putting those ballons up? I'm sure there are other duties as well that go unpaid unless a sale is made.

Seems like they should do something along the lines of how a waitress is paid...about $3 an hour plus commission.

Along yet another line. Yesterday I recieved a birthday card from a salesman that took the place of the salesman whom I bought my Buick from a couple years ago. Do any of you guys ever hear back from people you send birthday cards to? I suppose the regulars that buy every year or two. The card also said to stop in and say hi the next time I come in for service..sounds strange but I think I'll do that. :shades:

dino001 · November 2005

I have a question to our Toyota dealers/salesmen (Spyder?). I know is was dealt already in some form, but there was never a straight answer:
In Tampa it seems our friendly local dealers put $699 ( :surprise: ) Toyoguard Plus "package" in virtually all vehicles. Lets look what great value one is getting: paint sealant, undercoating, interior protection, first oil change (wow!), VIN etching, roadside assistance and rental assistance but only when vehicle is to be repaired.

SET was very kind (of course to their members, not the customers) to put it on the Monroney sticker so it appears as a factory option. Regardless what I think about real value of this stuff (can you say $50?

), does the customer have option to simply decline this "valuable" option? For me, it would be a dealbreaker, if not, unless of course they discount it to its real value. Just curious.

BTW with that stuff on, please oh please don't tell me it is a mini again like with doc fees.

jimbres · November 2005

Last weekend, I went to the local Honda store to buy a CR-V. Having done my research, I knew exactly what I wanted & how much I was prepared to pay for it. This would be a clean transaction - I had no trade & I was paying cash - so I expected to be out of the dealership & on my way home within an hour. (I did not intend to take delivery of the new car that day.) The salesman, whom I had met a few weeks earlier when I test drove the CR-V, was expecting me; I had called him the day before to tell him that I would come down the next morning to finalize the deal.

The salesman was friendly & professional, & it took us no more than 15 or 20 minutes to agree on a price. He wrote up the order, I signed it & he charged a deposit to my credit card. At that point, I would certainly have described the buying experience as pleasant & customer-friendly, & I would not have hesitated to recommend that dealership & sales rep to others. But then my salesman told me that I would before I could leave, I would have to sit down with Bob in F&I. I shuddered, recalling a terrifying hour trapped in a small room with a 300-lb red-haired amazon F&I witch at a Nissan dealership in the mid-1980s. I begged for mercy, but my sales rep told me that I had to do it &, anyway, I'd like Bob. He led me to Bob's office.

Before sitting down, I told Bob that I don't do paint sealants, window etchings or extended warranties, but that didn't stop him. After asking me at least 3 times how long I've lived in my town & if I was happy there, he tried half-heartedly to talk me into financing my purchase through him. Then he tried to sell me on a variety of anti-theft devices before turning to his personal favorite: extended warranties. He simply could not or would not believe that I flat-out did not want to buy one. Finally, I grabbed the letter opener on his desk, cut off 1 of his fingers & told him that he'd lose his right hand if he didn't let me go home.

OK, I exaggerate. I told Bob that I was late for a lunch date with my wife & I had to leave. But why did I have to put up with this? I left feeling sullen & resentful that I had to give up a big chunk of my weekend on a beautiful fall day. I doubt that I'll buy another car from that dealer.

A few years ago, I bought a BMW from a local dealer. That store's F&I guy called me a couple of days before I was to take delivery & gave me a concise explanation of what was available in the way of dealer add-ons. I said politely that I wasn't interested, he thanked me for my time, & that was that - professional & painless. Why couldn't the Honda dealer take this approach? Why force customers to run a gauntlet?

What would've happened if I had simply refused to see Bob? Would the salesman have ripped up my order & refunded my deposit? And how should I respond to the customer satisfaction survey when I get it? My sales rep did a good job - I don't want to hurt him - but I'd like someone to understand that the mandatory F&I sitdown left a bad taste in my mouth.

roberte1 · November 2005

One of the worst suyveys I have gotten was from an internet customer that I quoted invoice minis rebate . His major complant was that I would not negoiate the price of the car yet he still bougth it ???? Its not worth selling that car and possiable losing your spiff money for a mini deal !!!! :mad:

isellhondas · November 2005

Honda should be calling you on your survey. If you liked your salesperson, give him all 5's.

They will then ask you if you have any comments. This is the time to complain about how the F& I person treated you.

In addition, I would write a letter to the General Manager.

Yes, the F&I person has to do the paperwork and prepare the legal documents. Yes, they have products to sell. A lot of customers find value in these products.

When you declined these items, there should have been no pressure.

isellhondas · November 2005

Are you new to the business?

The chapest grinders will ALWAYS give you the worst surveys. The people who walk in happy and leave happy, even after paying perhaps a bit more will reflect that in their surveys.

Funny...they always seem happy with life in general too.

bcmalibu99ls · November 2005

Does GM police its dealers? I've received horribly incompetent service in Vancouver, BC. From four dealerships, not just one. That, coupled with nearly $100 an hour labour rates, left a somewhat unpleasant impression.

roberte1 · November 2005

10 months next monday !!!

isellhondas · November 2005

Well, I'm a bit south of you and labor rates aren't much lower here. For those rates, you should get GREAT service.

I hear in the San Francisco area, labor in some of the speciality shops can be 150.00/hr or even more!

Yikes!

mazda6iguy · November 2005

Not only do they prepare the legal docs, but I think they also prepare the temporary plates for the car too. At least at my Mazda dealership they did.

kdhspyder · November 2005

It is very true on the surveys. It can cost a salesperson their entire bonus for a given month or quarter. This may reach $3-5000 in some cases.

isell.. made a statement that is very close to the basic sentiment at our store. If the buyer is getting angry frustrated or upset and cannot be calmed down.

'Sir/Ma'am, if you are unhappy with us or displeased with the vehicle or the price or our service now, we sincerely would prefer not to sell you this vehicle. We want our customers to be completely satisfied in every way.'

Getting a bad survey from a dissatisfied buyer is not worth moving that one vehicle.

prosa · November 2005

I had a painless F&I experience when I bought a Subaru Forester at the end of last month. The F&I man asked me if I wanted an extended warranty, and when I declined he made no attempt to press the point. He also made no attempt to sell VIN etching or other useless add-ons. This non-hard-sell approach was particularly surprising because I had my own financing, through one of those CrapOne "blank check" deals, which not only deprived the dealership of the chance to make a cut off their own financing but also involved a number of nitpicky details on their part.

bcmalibu99ls · November 2005

Yeah, that's the thing. I realize cars break sometimes, and am willing to pay to get it fixed. But when you spend a thousand bucks and the problems are still there (and the "service" advisor having just told you it'd been fixed), and the mechanic is going home smiling with a fat paycheck...well, my buck stops right there

british_rover · November 2005

Agreed I sold a Range Rover to the friend of one of our owner's about the time I first started working here. We gave him a good deal well a good deal for a Range Rover at least. It was not a mini but it was close. He was an influential person, friend of the owner so someone we wanted to have in our car to talk up the product. Even let him pay with a personal check so it would be more convient for him. The car was really for his wife so I went over the car with her but she was busy and only had about 30 minutes. You need a solid couple of hours to do a good delivery on a Range Rover there is just too much stuff.

I told her if she wanted to she could come back when she had more time and I would go over more stuff.

She never came back for me to go over more things. She and her husband trashed us in the survey and I was pretty pissed. If she could have taken another hour out of her schedual I could have had time to do a good delivery for her or if she had come back at a later date.

I have set up tutoring sessions with several of my customers to go over more of the car. I actually just got back from having lunch with one of my customers at his Country Club. He is taking a long trip this weekend and wanted a refresher course on his car before he left.

grandtotal · November 2005

Now just remind me, what's the left pedal for again...

mikefm58 · November 2005

I got a flyer in the mail about some tent sale at the auction. Anyone got any info. if it's legit or what the catch is? I'm curious so I might stop by this weekend.

kdhspyder · November 2005

As you probably know SET is owned by one person. He buys directly from Toyota all the vehicles sold from NC to Miami. He then preps them and resells them to the local dealerships. While I live in NC I work in VA which is in CAT. Many in NC crossshop us and mention Toyoguard. It is put on at his prep site ( Jax? ) It is a profit source.

Depending on the price sensitivity of the vehicle Toyoguard may or may not be on it. You're very unlikely to get it off a Prius. By law it has to be on the Moroney sticker but it is open to discussion.

Commission on it? Depends on the whole deal you've negotiated. If you end up at $500 under invoice +Toyoguard @ $699 then it's a mini.

dino001 · November 2005

Thanks, that was very informative. By the way, its it curious why they stick to this "middle man" scheme. By "them" I mena both the manufacturer and the dealers. Some benefits we don't know? No choice, like 30-year contract with zillion dollar buyout clause?

kbt · November 2005

This non-hard-sell approach was particularly surprising because I had my own financing, through one of those CrapOne "blank check" deals, which not only deprived the dealership of the chance to make a cut off their own financing but also involved a number of nitpicky details on their part.

I just went in to sign the paperwork on a used car. The guy asked if I was financing or paying cash and I said if his rate was better than what I had, I'd be happy to finance it. He asked me what I had, pulled out a notebook and said the best he could do was .25 higher and there was no point in paying one more dime than I needed to, end of story. Surprised the heck out of me, but I went home quickly and happy.

sbell4 · November 2005

again, toyoguard is an option...just like floor mats. If you do not want it you do not have to have it, any dealer would be happy to aquire your vehicle and have the distribution center not have toyoguard installed on your car. Very true statement about Prius, high demand cars with little profit margin will more then likely have toyoguard for the extra markup.

why stick with the middleman: no choice....SET is very good to me but they are out to make a profit just like every other buisness in the world. We are theie customer and they want to sell us every piece of equipment they can on the car but the dealer is the one that agrees to buy it with the added accessories so you cant blame SET for the equipment on the car, it is the dealer that did it.

robr2 · November 2005

By the way, its it curious why they stick to this "middle man" scheme.

Toyota signed a contract with them many years ago and probably can't get out of it. Same thing here in New England with New England Subaru. Boch Enterprises owns NES and adds a distribution charge to every Subie sold in New England in addition to doing all the "port installed" options. At least you get something (albeit not of great value to you) with Toyoguard - with NES all you get is an additional charge.

66stang · November 2005

I have reached an agreement with local Toyota dealership re: Sale price, trade in price, and interest rate. Now my problem is the dealership cannot find the LC that I want. I have gone on line myself and found (2) that are in my state - but dealership is telling me one is a demo ( I verified that it wasn't with the other car dealership) and the other is "spoken for". They keep trying to get me to take an LC which less options. If I was quoted a price for an LC with all the options - I don't want one with less. Or one with "dealer installed" options. This is my first experience "negotiating" a car deal - usually I am the sucker that walks in and pays sticker! What are my options now? Can I make them live up to their end of the deal? Should I talk to the GM of dealership? Right now I am dealing with salesman, F&I guy and "car locator" guy? What suggestions do you have for my problem?

dtos01 · November 2005

Is this something that can be easily done or is it really a hassle when a customer asks for these?

kdhspyder · November 2005

Frankly it depends on what vehicle it is and what the margin is at the end. OEM mats often are expensive to buy from the parts dept. ( separate business from the sales dept ). To throw-in a set of $150 OEM mats may eat up all the margin in a nothing deal. If you want 'any' mats then you or the sales dept might go to the local auto parts store and get a set for $49. I've done that and the client was happy.

dino001 · November 2005

I am a bit surprised that an "efficiency-freak" Toyota elected to keep such system in place. I may be wrong, but it looks as it serves the owner of the distribution center and no one else. Well, I know there may be some benefits, but really, it looks like a needless cost escalating scheme to me.

bobst · November 2005

Wow, Jim, that is the funniest story I have heard in a long time. I have no idea why you talked to the F&I guy if you didn't want to.

"And how should I respond to the customer satisfaction survey when I get it?"

You should give honest answers to all of the questions on the survey. How those answers are interpreted by the dealer is none of your concern.

british_rover · November 2005

Our F&I guy is in an intereting position. We are the only highline store in our dealership family so he is pressured to try and sell paint sealant, accidental credit life and all that other host of junk products. None of our customers care about those kind of things and none of them are going to buy them. We have people paying cash for $80,000 plus vehicles. What he does to cover himself is have them sign a form that all of these extra products were presented to them and that they declined them.

The only products he actually tries to sell our Gap insurance and extended warranties both of which are good things to have on our vehicles if you are financing and plan to keep them for a while.

kdhspyder · November 2005

As mentioned above there almost assuredly is a contract in place which is probably tied to volume.. If you keep hitting your volume goals you get to keep the distributorship.

BTW Jim Moran was just inducted into the Auto Hall of Fame in Detroit for putting Toyota on the map in the SE. Loyalty is worth something also.

landdriver · November 2005

Had a good experience with my F&I guy back in '01. Was quite exhausted after dealing with the high-pressure salesman there. In contrast the F&I guy was way more pleasant (I think he was the owner's son or something). I wearily told him up-front I wasn't going to pay any dealer-prep, rust-proofing, etc. charges, and also that I'd sincerely really appreciate it if he could give me a price break on the dealer-installed center console. He did -- charged me invoice instead of MSRP. Went away a happy customer.

bobst · November 2005

I doubt your F&I guy has so much power over his customers that he can "have them sign a form".

What does he do if they refuse to sign? Does he then refuse to accept their $80K?

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