For showing that to a customer and adding in holdback! This is what gets these forums riled up! Yes, it was a scam and what a weak dealership that was to pull something like that!
Right - we'll deal with what exactly holdback is, and how it may or may not affect the deal in our dedicated Holdback discussion. Let's focus on this particular purchasing experience.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I'll admit that I don't own a dealership or work in one...
From the dealer's perspective, does the holdback or profit on any one car matter all that much? Isn't it more fluid, in that the dealer is trying to reach a total profit figure on a monthly/quarterly/annual basis? If he sells one car at a loss, he's going to try to make it up on the next 20 or 30, instead of just the next 1.
The difference with consumers is that they only have this 1 car, so they only see the profit that a dealer is or isn't making on this one transaction.
In this particular case, I think that it is a shady dealership practice. I've been in the same situation and wound up going elsewhere with my business.
yes, holdback is a continually fluctuating fund that may be positive or negative, and many times, is simply a break-even.
The sahdy issue I have with this dealership is that they were SO weak as to have to itemize everything and beg for every cent. If your sales force isn't stronger and more professional than that, you need to clean house.
Concentrate on OTD pricing after doing research, don't get caught up in all the little fees and charges - pay what you want to pay, based on what research says your prospective vehicle is going for - period. You'll have a much better experience, pay a good price for the vehicle, and keep your blood pressure down the entire time.
Good advice.. Find out what the invoice is from an independent source, decide what you want to pay, then try to get to that price...
As soon as you bring up paying $XXX amount over invoice or "cost", then you've just given them carte blanche to add everything but the kitchen sink... And, realize that they are much better at this than you are....
and make an offer, like bobst. People want to play so many games without even knowing where they're going with the price, many times they outsmart themselves. This really happens a bunch when they're trying to right up two vehicles in order to make a choice - the numbers get confusing, and the figure it out a week later...too late then!
Interesting that this comes up now just after that article about the man suing the Saab dealership was posted here.
Anyway, I was hoping someone might be able to shed some light on this ad I've been hearing the last couple of days on the radio. A mega-Chevy-dealership is claiming the following:
"If you are the current owner of a 1998 or newer import or domestic car or truck, we will give you FULL 100% MSRP of the base model from when the car was new when you trade in on a 2004 or 2005 new vehicle!!"
So.... does anyone know or does anyone care to guess as to the catch on such an offer? Heck, if that's true, I be there in a heartbeat, and probably have everyone I know following me with their vehicles. Obviously, this is too good to be what it seems.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"If you are the current owner of a 1998 or newer import or domestic car or truck, we will give you FULL 100% MSRP of the base model from when the car was new when you trade in on a 2004 or 2005 new vehicle!!" <>
When you take delivery of a delear stock vehicle at twice the MSRP!
Heck, even if that was the deal, I might still do it. I'd take an Aveo for $20K if they were really going to give me original MSRP on my Volvo. So that's a new Aveo and a big check. Then I turn around and sell the Aveo for, I dunno, a few hundred bucks (I figure that's about what its worth once you drive it away), take the check and put a nice down payment on a real car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
There have been a couple of dealers here in Denver that have made that offer.
The fine print reads something like "MSRP is reduced by .10 per mile for each mile driven".
That's the out -- if you've got a '99 Blahmobile with 60K on it (optimistic, I know!) you subtract $6K from the MSRP price to arrive at the "perceived" trade in value.
Of course, that .10/mile could vary from dealer to dealer.
I thought about that angle, too, but, even then it could be a heck of a deal. Again, using my volvo, which is worth only $4500 on a real trade, the original MSRP of the BASE model (again, another caveat) was probably somewhere in the mid $20k range. So let's say $25k. with 100K miles, even if it was as high as 15 cents a mile deduction, that leaves it as a $10K trade-in. Not bad.
THEN AGAIN, I suppose if another aspect was that you had to pay full MSRP for the new vehicle, that could easily be $5K over market value on a Chevy given the deep discounts and rebates.
so I guess I could see how they could avoid getting killed with that offer.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
i think this would only be attractive if you have something like a taurus. if i had a '98 taurus with 80k miles, the base LX was about $16800. take off $8000 for mileage, and im getting $8800 for a $1500 turd.
i think all it would take is some tough negotiating to take full advantage. as long as i get the rebates, im ok with MSRP as a price on the new one.
Right. That's why I stressed the base model aspect of the deal. I know that's a big part of it ... especially for my car, which stickered for $38K, but the base model, like I said, was probably in the mid-20s range.
I also wonder if they wouldn't do something REALLY tricky like "sure, you have a '98 Taurus, but the MANUFACTURER'S BASE MODEL was a stripper Escort, so that's the number we'll use."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Obviously these guys have an out. I can think of a couple right off the top of my head. Which begs the question: If you know they created that ad just to get the gullible to come in, and you know they're going to screw with you in some fashion, then why even bother going there? Unless you have a lot of time on your hands and are just curious as to how exactly they'll screw with you. ;-)
all advertisement is for that singular purpose, regardless of the message. the thing that separates us from the gullible is that we think of ways to screw back. ;-)
These types of ad's are designed to bring the folks to the showroom......If they give you more than the actual cash value of the trade you can bet your going to pay for it somewhere else. The santa syndrome kicks in and consumers often think that for this sale only their car is worth thousands more than the actual wholesale value....
I can hear the people in the showroom now...
next week the ol' 86 Cierra will only be worth $300 so we better buy now cause they will give us $11,000 today....
but honey, they want us to pay full MSRP and they are insisting on keeping the $3000 rebates and the interest rate is 12% and they require us to take the $5000 extended warranty and the $700 vin-etch...
yeah but we are getting $12k for our trade...ok honey, buy the car.
...... I certainly don't agree with that type of advertising ..
But hey, it can't be any worse than the boat dealers that jack their prices by $5,000/$15,000 at the boat shows in any city in America ~ then show a $5,0/$10,000 discount ........
Hello, Mr. Chevrolet dealer? Yeah, I'd like to trade in my base model Rolls for that Aveo.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Exactly right on both accounts. Most times curiosity gets the better of me and I just HAVE to know how something works.
Just to provide an update, I first emailed the dealership's sales department last night. I received a reply from their finance department. So I wrote again. Then received a reply from a salesperson explaining that a mixup occured and they were sorry the finance department responded and explained I could contact them at this particular email address. So I wrote once again and asked my original question. I have yet to receive another response.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Here's what their reply email would be if they dared to write it:
"Dear sir. Thank you for your interest in ABC Motors. Due to the insightful and intelligent question about our recent ad, we regret to say that we've concluded that you would not make a good customer of ABC Motors. Below is a list of our competitors that you could call on. Thank you again, ABC Motors."
good point. i remember shopping for an Odyssey LX a few years ago, and researching pricing online doing the internet thing, etc.
a major dealer in the metro ATL area ran a full page ad in the saturday newspaper, and provided the price figure + "tags + title + tax". there was no restriction printed except for the model number and without specificity to color or number of vehicles (you know "white", or "1 at that price").
try as i might to make a deal for that price, it just wasn't going to happen. this was even though the salesman i initially made contact at the dealership quoted me the same price before the ad ran.
the van they wanted to sell me was loaded up with stuff i didn't value or want.
i figure they figured that noone would go to the hastle of reporting them or trying to "force" them to sell the van at that price. how as a consumer would you do that anyway? their out was going to be all the value added options that were already on the vehicle. laugh. they weren't comming off the truck configured that way.
i guess someone's got to keep the guys busy installing stuff like muds and rails and pinstriping and putting on that protection package, etc. lol.
their salesman after hounding me for a week blew me off calling me rude - like i was stringing *him* along.
i knew they weren't going to let me buy the van for any price there by that point - the satisfaction survey was only going to be negative across the board for them, and the salesman knew it. (btw - i didn't know at the time how important their satisfaction surveys would be)
so why was he hasstling me pretending to try to sell me the van? i never figured that out, but i didn't waste much effort trying to understand it either.
my wife just laughed and laughed. what an education for us.
called another dealer, told him what we wanted and what i wanted to pay. drove over, looked at two - no stress at all - test drove the van in the color i wanted, and the next day the deal was done by a salesman that treated me and my wife with courtesy and professionalism.
I found an easy out from a car deal the other day. Told em I didnt have any pay stubs and i wanted to use "stated income". Hey it works on buying houses, why not cars! hehe
It's O.K. to lie to the salesperson. That's acceptable. Much as it is acceptable say "I'll be back tomorrow at 5:30 with my wife." and I never see the him again.
We (salespeople) obviously have the reputation we have for reasons that are out of most of our hands. I learned when I was young that I didn't like getting caught in a lie so I don't do it. I have many wonderful customers, but the amount of customers that flat out lie to car salespeople is astonishing. Every week I have have to cleanse myself of it.
I hope you appreciate the customers who lie and try to cheat you. If it wasn't for them, selling cars would be too easy, and lots of people would want to be salesmen. With a glut of salesmen, the dealers would not have to pay you as much.
Good salesmen like you have developed the intuitive sense to tell which customers are worth your time and which ones deserve the boot. That's why you are worth the big bucks they pay you.
I write complex Fortran computer programs for a living. Fortunately, it is very hard to do. If it wasn't, they could hire some kid to replace me at a quarer of my pay and I would be out on the street.
I am glad my job is very difficult and you should be too.
I admit to saying I will be back at a later time without intending to ever come back. I sometimes do this when I have a bulldog of a salesperson who demands some sort of answer.
Unfortunately, this seems to comprise about half of the salespeople I come across.
I'm with lemmer here.. If we were talking about common courtesy with an aquaintance, then saying you'd be back, when you had no intention of doing so, would just be wrong...
But, if you are trying to extricate yourself from an uncomfortable situation, and the other party is intent on not letting you do that, then a little white lie is a lot more tactful than the truth... In fact, it is just plain good manners...
To use one of driftracer's examples: Is it lying if the salesman says that is the lowest he can go, then goes lower?
I think not... Car negotiations aren't about truth/lying.. Sometimes people just don't want the hard sell, or have decided against buying that car, and don't want to spend any more time debating it with the salesperson.
I'm not saying that customers never lie.. But, saying you'll be back, then not doing it, hardly qualifies...
Actually, in the sciences, there is a lot of code written in FORTRAN. I have to use some of it, even though I prefer MATLAB or C.
On the dealers tricks, am looking at getting a Subaru Legacy GT LTD. I was in one dealer where negotiations were not going well. Basically, I was trying to get TMV, he was saying 'I need to make money.' And he questioned what TMV was.
I should have replied that your compensation is of no concern to me, but I didn't.
Well, he went back to talk to his manager, and I pulled out my PDA with WIFI. It turns out the dealership had an unencripted wifi connection. I pulled up the TMV for the car in question.
However, when he came back he showed me how I could 'purchase' the car I wanted for 400/mo. Trouble was it was a baloon loan over 4 years. I left the dealership then.
I probably will not buy from them, even though they are right across from my office. FITZMALL.com has the same car for $1200 less then they would go.
How do you know your local Subaru dealer will not accept your offer? Have you gone there and made an explicit OTD offer and had it rejected? That's the only way to find out.
I could even write you a Fortran program to help guide you through the process.
I am just across the river. I was looking in Tysons Corner. I thought they were invoice, but the dealer was quoting me 600 above invoice + 300 processing fee. That seemed high to me. for $100, I wouldn't worry, but for $900 I will.
Try Fitzgerald Auto Mall (do a web search for fitzmall). Under invoice on Legacies and have ag reat reputation. I didn't buy from them, because my local dealer agreed to match their price and threw in some extras.
Without sifting through all the 123 pages of posts, I was wondering if someone could answer a couple of simple questions for me.
I'm helping my sister buy a car. She has her heart set on a new Mustang....probably the hottest car of all the '05 lineups.
She qualifies for Ford's "X" plan (family and friends of Ford employees). That price is roughly invoice (I think about $100 under invoice). While I understand that offering X plan pricing is voluntary for any Ford dealership, after hitting every Ford dealership within a 50 mile radius, we found a couple who will do it (as opposed to those trying to sell for as much as $5K OVER MSRP).
She's trying to order a vehicle. They show her the X Plan pricing. One dealer insists on a $250 additional fee for "window etching". The other dealer wants an additional $995 for their "Value Guard" package. They say it's additional rust protection, paint sealant and interior stain protection (read...undercoating, a wax job and some scotchgard for the interior...which is leather, btw).
Both dealers say all their cars come with either the etching or the "Value Guard". If she orders the car, I say they don't come that way from the factory. Aside from the almost uselessness of these additional dealer "options", does anyone know if Ford "X" plan allows this?
I was under the impression that the only thing X plan allows is for dealers to charge extra for "dealer installed options" (I understand this to mean they can charge for things like installing custom wheels, or spoilers, etc).
In the case of the Value Guard, I know GM does not recommend additional undercoating as it could be detrimental. Does Ford feel the same way? Regarding the wax job, Ford does not allow any extra charges for additional "conditioning" (which I interpret to mean any wax or interior treatments). Am I right in my interpretations?
A dealer can charge what they want for the car. I do not see why a Ford dealer would sell a Mustang less than MSRP with X Plan or not because they can still sell the Mustang over invoice. What ever they add and charge you is up to them and it is up to you if you want to purchase.
are both profit centers, dealer options, that you can say "no" to. Of course, the dealer giving away a Mustang at x-plan pricing may have them wanting some way to recover some money.
Neither program is necessary, I don't believe in either one, have never pushed them when I was in F&I...
That being said, the dealer doesn't have to honor x-plan on the car, though....dbauer was saying that his big dealership isn't honoring any Ford buyer programs on the new Mustang yet.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Not being disrespectful, but you have to understand what you're saying here - "I do not see why a Ford dealer would sell a Mustang less than MSRP with X Plan or not because they can still sell the Mustang over invoice"
If the dealer agrees to x-plan pricing, the price is set at a locked-in number, period. If they do this, they don't take x-plan pricing and mark it up, because that defeats the purpose of x-plan pricing...
I always avoid vague generalities - if I can't specifically answer a question with accurate information, I either say so, or don't answer.
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From the dealer's perspective, does the holdback or profit on any one car matter all that much? Isn't it more fluid, in that the dealer is trying to reach a total profit figure on a monthly/quarterly/annual basis? If he sells one car at a loss, he's going to try to make it up on the next 20 or 30, instead of just the next 1.
The difference with consumers is that they only have this 1 car, so they only see the profit that a dealer is or isn't making on this one transaction.
In this particular case, I think that it is a shady dealership practice. I've been in the same situation and wound up going elsewhere with my business.
The sahdy issue I have with this dealership is that they were SO weak as to have to itemize everything and beg for every cent. If your sales force isn't stronger and more professional than that, you need to clean house.
Concentrate on OTD pricing after doing research, don't get caught up in all the little fees and charges - pay what you want to pay, based on what research says your prospective vehicle is going for - period. You'll have a much better experience, pay a good price for the vehicle, and keep your blood pressure down the entire time.
As soon as you bring up paying $XXX amount over invoice or "cost", then you've just given them carte blanche to add everything but the kitchen sink... And, realize that they are much better at this than you are....
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It was not a trick either.
He was just trying to convince you to accept his price. Nothing wrong with that.
;-)
Anyway, I was hoping someone might be able to shed some light on this ad I've been hearing the last couple of days on the radio. A mega-Chevy-dealership is claiming the following:
"If you are the current owner of a 1998 or newer import or domestic car or truck, we will give you FULL 100% MSRP of the base model from when the car was new when you trade in on a 2004 or 2005 new vehicle!!"
So.... does anyone know or does anyone care to guess as to the catch on such an offer? Heck, if that's true, I be there in a heartbeat, and probably have everyone I know following me with their vehicles. Obviously, this is too good to be what it seems.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
When you take delivery of a delear stock vehicle at twice the MSRP!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The fine print reads something like "MSRP is reduced by .10 per mile for each mile driven".
That's the out -- if you've got a '99 Blahmobile with 60K on it (optimistic, I know!) you subtract $6K from the MSRP price to arrive at the "perceived" trade in value.
Of course, that .10/mile could vary from dealer to dealer.
THEN AGAIN, I suppose if another aspect was that you had to pay full MSRP for the new vehicle, that could easily be $5K over market value on a Chevy given the deep discounts and rebates.
so I guess I could see how they could avoid getting killed with that offer.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
What do you think the base model was? Maybe it was super-cheap, so the MSRP is not that high.
Maybe the offer only applies to certain models of new trucks, the ones so overloaded with options they cost twice as much as they should.
i think all it would take is some tough negotiating to take full advantage. as long as i get the rebates, im ok with MSRP as a price on the new one.
I also wonder if they wouldn't do something REALLY tricky like "sure, you have a '98 Taurus, but the MANUFACTURER'S BASE MODEL was a stripper Escort, so that's the number we'll use."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Isn't that why we are all here?.... lol
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I can hear the people in the showroom now...
next week the ol' 86 Cierra will only be worth $300 so we better buy now cause they will give us $11,000 today....
but honey, they want us to pay full MSRP and they are insisting on keeping the $3000 rebates and the interest rate is 12% and they require us to take the $5000 extended warranty and the $700 vin-etch...
yeah but we are getting $12k for our trade...ok honey, buy the car.
But hey, it can't be any worse than the boat dealers that jack their prices by $5,000/$15,000 at the boat shows in any city in America ~ then show a $5,0/$10,000 discount ........
Terry.
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Just to provide an update, I first emailed the dealership's sales department last night. I received a reply from their finance department. So I wrote again. Then received a reply from a salesperson explaining that a mixup occured and they were sorry the finance department responded and explained I could contact them at this particular email address. So I wrote once again and asked my original question. I have yet to receive another response.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"Dear sir. Thank you for your interest in ABC Motors. Due to the insightful and intelligent question about our recent ad, we regret to say that we've concluded that you would not make a good customer of ABC Motors. Below is a list of our competitors that you could call on. Thank you again, ABC Motors."
;-)
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a major dealer in the metro ATL area ran a full page ad in the saturday newspaper, and provided the price figure + "tags + title + tax". there was no restriction printed except for the model number and without specificity to color or number of vehicles (you know "white", or "1 at that price").
try as i might to make a deal for that price, it just wasn't going to happen. this was even though the salesman i initially made contact at the dealership quoted me the same price before the ad ran.
the van they wanted to sell me was loaded up with stuff i didn't value or want.
i figure they figured that noone would go to the hastle of reporting them or trying to "force" them to sell the van at that price. how as a consumer would you do that anyway? their out was going to be all the value added options that were already on the vehicle. laugh. they weren't comming off the truck configured that way.
i guess someone's got to keep the guys busy installing stuff like muds and rails and pinstriping and putting on that protection package, etc. lol.
their salesman after hounding me for a week blew me off calling me rude - like i was stringing *him* along.
i knew they weren't going to let me buy the van for any price there by that point - the satisfaction survey was only going to be negative across the board for them, and the salesman knew it. (btw - i didn't know at the time how important their satisfaction surveys would be)
so why was he hasstling me pretending to try to sell me the van? i never figured that out, but i didn't waste much effort trying to understand it either.
my wife just laughed and laughed. what an education for us.
called another dealer, told him what we wanted and what i wanted to pay. drove over, looked at two - no stress at all - test drove the van in the color i wanted, and the next day the deal was done by a salesman that treated me and my wife with courtesy and professionalism.
Terry.
We (salespeople) obviously have the reputation we have for reasons that are out of most of our hands. I learned when I was young that I didn't like getting caught in a lie so I don't do it. I have many wonderful customers, but the amount of customers that flat out lie to car salespeople is astonishing. Every week I have have to cleanse myself of it.
Good salesmen like you have developed the intuitive sense to tell which customers are worth your time and which ones deserve the boot. That's why you are worth the big bucks they pay you.
I write complex Fortran computer programs for a living. Fortunately, it is very hard to do. If it wasn't, they could hire some kid to replace me at a quarer of my pay and I would be out on the street.
I am glad my job is very difficult and you should be too.
Unfortunately, this seems to comprise about half of the salespeople I come across.
But, if you are trying to extricate yourself from an uncomfortable situation, and the other party is intent on not letting you do that, then a little white lie is a lot more tactful than the truth... In fact, it is just plain good manners...
To use one of driftracer's examples: Is it lying if the salesman says that is the lowest he can go, then goes lower?
I think not... Car negotiations aren't about truth/lying.. Sometimes people just don't want the hard sell, or have decided against buying that car, and don't want to spend any more time debating it with the salesperson.
I'm not saying that customers never lie.. But, saying you'll be back, then not doing it, hardly qualifies...
regards,
kyfdx
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" Don't count the Be-Backs, count the greenbacks"
And, yes, it is amazing the bold faced lies I hear from my customers. Trouble is, they think I believe them.
On the dealers tricks, am looking at getting a Subaru Legacy GT LTD. I was in one dealer where negotiations were not going well. Basically, I was trying to get TMV, he was saying 'I need to make money.' And he questioned what TMV was.
I should have replied that your compensation is of no concern to me, but I didn't.
Well, he went back to talk to his manager, and I pulled out my PDA with WIFI. It turns out the dealership had an unencripted wifi connection. I pulled up the TMV for the car in question.
However, when he came back he showed me how I could 'purchase' the car I wanted for 400/mo. Trouble was it was a baloon loan over 4 years. I left the dealership then.
I probably will not buy from them, even though they are right across from my office. FITZMALL.com has the same car for $1200 less then they would go.
I could even write you a Fortran program to help guide you through the process.
I'm helping my sister buy a car. She has her heart set on a new Mustang....probably the hottest car of all the '05 lineups.
She qualifies for Ford's "X" plan (family and friends of Ford employees). That price is roughly invoice (I think about $100 under invoice). While I understand that offering X plan pricing is voluntary for any Ford dealership, after hitting every Ford dealership within a 50 mile radius, we found a couple who will do it (as opposed to those trying to sell for as much as $5K OVER MSRP).
She's trying to order a vehicle. They show her the X Plan pricing. One dealer insists on a $250 additional fee for "window etching". The other dealer wants an additional $995 for their "Value Guard" package. They say it's additional rust protection, paint sealant and interior stain protection (read...undercoating, a wax job and some scotchgard for the interior...which is leather, btw).
Both dealers say all their cars come with either the etching or the "Value Guard". If she orders the car, I say they don't come that way from the factory. Aside from the almost uselessness of these additional dealer "options", does anyone know if Ford "X" plan allows this?
I was under the impression that the only thing X plan allows is for dealers to charge extra for "dealer installed options" (I understand this to mean they can charge for things like installing custom wheels, or spoilers, etc).
In the case of the Value Guard, I know GM does not recommend additional undercoating as it could be detrimental. Does Ford feel the same way? Regarding the wax job, Ford does not allow any extra charges for additional "conditioning" (which I interpret to mean any wax or interior treatments). Am I right in my interpretations?
Thanks for the help!
Neither program is necessary, I don't believe in either one, have never pushed them when I was in F&I...
That being said, the dealer doesn't have to honor x-plan on the car, though....dbauer was saying that his big dealership isn't honoring any Ford buyer programs on the new Mustang yet.
Danger! Danger!
(J/K, drift)
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If the dealer agrees to x-plan pricing, the price is set at a locked-in number, period. If they do this, they don't take x-plan pricing and mark it up, because that defeats the purpose of x-plan pricing...
I always avoid vague generalities - if I can't specifically answer a question with accurate information, I either say so, or don't answer.