Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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Herb Cohen, in his classic text You Can Negotiate Anything, suggests that the customer make the sales rep invest enough of his time so that the rep makes concessions.
http://tinyurl.com/d3wsd
Cohen uses the example of asking for a free tie and shirt when being fitted for a new suit. With a car, ask for a full tank of gas, a free loaner for any service, oil changes, tire rotations, whatever. With all the paperwork prepared and ready to sign, the rep will most likely concede to the customer's requests. Then get it in writing.
That strategy cuts both ways.
That strategy cuts both ways.
.......please, dont try this. On paper it may sound like good advice but it will not end well for anyone invloved.
remember that your word should mean EVERYTHING and once you have agreed to terms, everything else doesnt matter.
A store would have to be really hard up to cut into a $600 margin to move one vehicle. How much less than zero do you want to make?
As long as this is understood in advance then there is nothing wrong. It goes against our N American spirit but it's perfectly valid in 80% of the rest of the world.
With all due respect to Mr. Cohen, his way of selling has long past. I have been in industrial sales for the past twenty-five plus years and had to change my style to fit the times. With todays "partnering with the customer" and "consultive selling techniques" his way of doing things is "old school". It may have been "right for the times" but times have changed!
a) all vehicles in that class have to be priced the same
b) why would a store want to do so?
Its been stated a few times that a dealer can do this but there is really no incentive to do so.
From what I could tell, Burke was advising us to make the sales person so misrable they would be willing to sell the car for a super-low price. I don't think life has to be so confrontational unless the other person is nasty to us from the start.
Title Prep Fee $20.00
Documentary Preparation Fee $75.00 (??)
Sales Tax $910
Vehicle Protection Package $299 (??)
Bedliner $399 (??)
Subtotal 14005.00
Cash Down $2500
Subtotal $11505
Registration Fee $86.00
Balance Due On Delivery $11591.00
And I'd be paying $208 a month which is cheaper than what the other dealsership quoted me. There was a discount which I saw them configure in but now looking at this paper, I don't see it. I guess it's too late at this point now anyway.
The price is about right for the car. The other dealership quoted me a lower price though so that's where I'm confused. I asked a few times what my total price was and I got answers like they didn't know yet, they had to check with someone else. Then once they found out about my down payment, I realized the "11,000" they were telling me was what it was after they subtracted my downpayment. I didn't have a good feeling throughout the whole thing because they had me talk to 3 or 4 different people. It was..weird. There were a million people there, it was busy and I had one particular salesman but I'm not sure who the other 2 guys were. One was the finance guy. lol I liked the car though and the monthly payment.. Now without the anxiety and really looking at it.. I'm confused. I even had someone there with me too.
Annoying the heck out of the salesperson to get a good deal?
The price is about right for the car.
The main thing questionable is that they cheated themselves somehow out of about $703.. it's missing in your figures
The doc prep fee is pretty low for most areas of the country but the bedliner is on the high side..
Vehicle prep package is something some people refuse and others demand to have..
otherwise it's pretty straight forward... except the $703 they screwed themselves out of?.. rebate??
However, consider one sales person negotiating with a 7 member family speaking a different language and prompting one of the members to 'try this'.. 'try this'.. beginning at $2000 below invoice. But.. the fact that all the family members are there is a strong buying signal. They intend to drive off with the vehicle in question from your dealership. Gotta love the process.
Someone commented on the sales strategy of making the customer invest too much time to move on to another dealer only to have to start over. From the previous post:
"I didn't have a good feeling throughout the whole thing because they had me talk to 3 or 4 different people. It was…weird."
This guy was getting the "turnover" with a sales rep, a closer, a manager, and an F&I guy working him over. Sales people will walk you all over the lot, disappear for long "conferences" with the boss, do whatever they can to wear down the customer's resistance. Then the customer leaves without a clue as to what hit him.
"Now without the anxiety and really looking at it… I'm confused. I even had someone there with me too."
So what happens when the customer and sales rep agree on a price? In steps the F&I guy who has a dozen ways of bumping the deal. So much for the price just agreed upon.
So that's a sales strategy! In his book Cohen suggests that the customer adopt the same tactics. Take up the reps time, then when a price is agreed upon, grind away for the extras. Trust me, sales people have read these books, attend the seminars, and trade tactics. So should buyers.
This is hard to believe, but I've heard of a buyer who went so far as to ask for an extra set of keys. I wish I could get the details of that story.
> I would find this practice pretty insulting if I were a salesperson. I would want to stay on good terms with my dealership.
I have never found this to be a problem. My cars get serviced properly and promptly. In fact, the Focus is due for a free inspection and free oil change next Wednesday.
Bedliner $399 (??)
299+399=703
Wow maybe I didn't get charged for that..
lol. That's exactly how I felt too.
I know I got hit with the "turnover". I read about that here on Edmunds a while ago and that's where some of my anxiety was coming from. I was trying to catch any little screwup they made. lol.
I skipped out on the haggling bs once they gave me a ridiculously high price and I told them what I was quoted at another dealer. That made things go faster and easier.
It was a Focus too. 2005 zx4 SE. 14,000 miles.
Besides jamming someone with a higher than expected interest rate (leave insurance issues out), what are the other 11 ways they can bump the deal that makes the dealer more $ ? (from a financing standpoint)
So,if the dealership made negotiations a plesant experience... I wouldn't try to wear them down for extras.
Three things to take with you for the big game: 1)patience 2)time 3)information
Their subtotal is still 600 more than what I got somewhere else. :confuse:
You said in the first post you were quoted a $399 Bedliner (?) but in another post you said you bought a Focus(?)... HUH? And your numbers dont add up. You seem to have screwed them out of $703 but you think you might have been taken??? Something is fishy.
If something sounds too good to be true, in most cases it is.
If it is a flyer that sounds too good to be true....it always is
They can stipulate - you must sell every customer at the same price. Since there is so little markup they are sold at MSRP ...
The SCION dealerships I have seen out here in So Cal will also pre-install some expensive wheel/tire packages on the more popular XB and XC models.
Yeah, I heard about a guy who did that. Since all of you are so curious, I will try to find all of his posts and copy them to every DG and send them to everyone's email.
As I recall, the main point was that the guy specified he wanted a bunch of extra keys WHEN HE MADE HIS OTD OFFER. He didn't ask for the extra keys after the deal was made.
However, the F&I guy tried to increase his OTD price by $1 (yes, one dollar) because the sales manager had underestimated one of the taxes. Would you believe the guy actually refused to pay the extra dollar and held them to the exact OTD price they had agreed to accept?
Hard to believe there are people like that, isn't it?
Yeah, I agree, especially since I just turned 60.
That why it is nice to live our life like we want to instead of how others want us to.
Wrong. Totally wrong.
Here's The scoop, directly from Scion's "FAQ" www.scion.com/contact/about/faq/
==========================================================
Scion's Pure Price purchase experience means: No Haggle. Ho Hassle.
The Price You Pay For All Products = The Dealership's Posted or Advertised Price.
==========================================================
It doesn't say that the dealer can't markup a tC by $2,500, or whatever.
I screwed up reading the yellow slip wrong. I guess the part that has BedLiner and Vehicle Protection Package which add up to $703 wasn't added in. But it's listed. There are "N/A"s on the paper but not in the right boxes so it's kind of confusing. Made sense when I recalculated everything.
I guess now I'm just a little mad that the subtotal for the car itself is $13000 when the other place was going to give it to me for like $12500 but the monthly payments were more. They swore they couldn't get it down more which I guess was bs.
And since I'm getting the car from a dealer I wasn't refered to, I'm confusing my gut instinct with anxiety on getting screwed because of how fast everything went and me pretty much getting the "Turnover" game.
Also I noticed on the way out that another used had a dent in the back and you could tell it was in an accident. It wasn't a focus so it wasn't in that area.
I have someoen going with me on Monday who knows more about this stuff so hopefully everything turns out ok.
About the $500 difference. Used cars are not new cars there is no MSRP..just typical prices but nothing firm. $500 is well within the ballpark one way or another for a similar model, same year, similar miles. One store might have paid more than the other to acquire it.
If you like the car and the payments suit you dont beat yourself up. Enjoy your new wheels.
Here's another side to that. I will be buying a new Prius probably in 2006. I sell them.... but I have to pay full sticker at our store, as does everyone else if they want a Prius. If I want my Prius badly enough I'll pay it. That's life.
If you are a good employee, they should give you a small discount, even if it's a high demand vehicle. IMHO!!
'You'll have to wait in line like everyone else. ( who do you want to push out of the way? ). The price is the MSRP unless you want to wait until there is an unsold one on the lot for 30 days.' That's not going to happen.
You aren't committed to purchase the car until you drive it away from the dealer.
> I guess now I'm just a little mad that the subtotal for the car itself is $13000 when the other place was going to give it to me for like $12500 but the monthly payments were more. They swore they couldn't get it down more which I guess was bs.
Check the paperwork for the number of payments each deal involves. Dealer #1 offers you a car for $12,500 with 36 payments. Dealer #2 says he will give you a lower payment. He offers you a similar car for $13,000 with 48 payments.
Dealer #1 Finance $12,500 for 36 months @ $380 per month = $13,680.
Dealer #2 Finance $13,000 for 48 months @ $305 per month = $14,640.
Dealer #2 has reduced your monthly payment by $75, but in reality, is costing you $960 more.
I was discussing with the salesperson, drove the car, liked it. Then, we started talking cost. I pulled out my printout with fitzmall's price and thier price.
The salesman said he could not sell it at that price, as he would not make any money. I told him that I do not care about his salery structure, and I would prefer to buy from that dealer, but the difference was too great: about 2K for a 10 mile drive. I left without a car. I then contacted the internet sales deptartment at fitzmall to verify the price.
Then, on a lark, I called the internet department at the dealer across the street. He said of course they would sell at thier advertised price. I told him that I was already working with someone, who would not come within 2K of that price.
To keep the long story from getting longer, I bought the car from the dealer across the street....The internet salesman is still there. The othr gus is not. I am very happy with him, and will probably buy my next car from him (if I am buying a Subaru or VW).
Fitzmall is on the leading edge along with several other large stores. They are mainly growing by sheer volume. The owner is just as happy selling you from the internet side with little or no effort as from the retail side with the 'normal' process. He ( they ) mainly get paid ( by the manufacturer ) on volume alone. Thus while the 'normal' process may bring somewhat more money the growth is via the internet.
The manufacturer doesnt care one whit. They get paid as soon as the vehicle is shipped and as long as you are not inconvenienced they are happy.
The internet salesperson is looking to move 30-60 vehicles a month; the retail sales person 'hopes' to do 15-20 a month ( typically 8-12 ). It explains why you get resistance from the front side when you talk about invoice deals. The front side retail person has to make more per vehicle in order to pay his/her bills because they sell less units.
When people start in the business they are always taught that this career is their individual business. Run it as you wish. Those who are good business people and develop a loyal following will end up working better and smarter through repeat business and referrals. These sales people are often extremely successful as opposed to the 80+% who struggle by or fall by the wayside ( the first person you met ) making what a Burger King associate makes.
That is the nature of the busines now.
For example, if it were a BMW, the warranty starts on the demo "in-service" date, but BMW adds 3 months and an extra 5K miles to the warranty...
There are as many answers to this question, as there are car makes...
Although, if the car is sold as a demo, I doubt you'll get any mileage extension..
regards,
kyfdx
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I always assumed we could get the best deal by showing up at the dealer with our checkbook. However, you got a much better deal talking with the internet manager over the phone. Amazing.
When you visited the dealer, I wonder what would have happened if you had made your offer directly to the sales manager. Would he have accepted it because there would be no commission to pay a sales person on the floor?
This is one of the biggest myths... There is absolutely no incentive for a dealer to do a cash deal. In fact, they won't make as much as if someone financed/leased.
When you visited the dealer, I wonder what would have happened if you had made your offer directly to the sales manager. Would he have accepted it because there would be no commission to pay a sales person on the floor?
Makes no difference.... They'd still give the deal to one of the salespeople. Somebody would get credit for it, and that salesperson would probably be the one showing you the car and doing the delivery process.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Now, the friend is a part owner in a BMW dealership, and my dad has gone to him several times over the years for "deals" on used cars. Each time, his friend refers him to one of the salesman. Not sure that my dad ever got the "deal" he was looking for.
So, when buying a car, I don't think it's a matter of "it's not what you know, but who you know" - I would emphatically state that it is what you know.
Whether you are paying cash or financing the car purchase, I always thought we could get a bettr deal in person than we could over the phone.
Manamal just kicked that theory out the window, down the road, up the beltway, and over the Legion Bridge, all the way into Maryland.