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Comments
"Yeah, my car now that I have bought is trash. I should have bought the other..."
But after you buy another car, you are quite confident to say "Yeah, the car I owned before is trash."
But it is the same car, right?
Do you know why I post so many comments here?
Let's disregard all makes and models.
Be objective. Cars, no matter how expensive your car is, (VW or Mercedes or as cheap as a Hyundai Accent) must have their own advantages and disadvantges, and these disadvantages need to be corrected. But some stubborn car owners keep on saying that "Yeah, my car has no problems," and "Yeah my car is perfect!", then how come there are newer models on the road?
E.g.: Your car is perfect, then how come your car needs to be redesigned after 4 years?
The redesign of cars needs the owners inputs, comments. Certainly, there are problems in your own car, unless you don't consider disadvantages as problems. So understand my point here now?
By the way, I am 19 who study in the the University of Waterloo in Canada. I ain't some old guys.
Just tell me what you think about this posting.
Agree or disagree?
Hope 2000 passat owners won't have any recalls same as the 1999 ones.
www.nhtsa.dot.gov
peter167 summed it up best through this analogy. Car guy A compares an Accord to a Toyota Camry--which he happens to own. He says the Toyota has the better engine, and that it's much faster than the Honda's. Yet, a piece of paper proves him wrong...
Without objective facts, anyone can say anything about his car without any backing. And if one thinks that an owner won't be biased about his vehicle one way or another, he's nuts...
Of course, subjective opinions are great too. For example, in comparing a Honda engine to a Toyota engine, one might prefer the later rev characteristics of the Honda, or the more even delivery of the Toyota. That's something that a 0-60 time can't tell you.
Regardless, these "opinions" should be put in perspective. Sometimes, they're just subjective rankings that vary greatly from person to person. Other times, they're not even opinions. Instead, they're simply factually wrong statements. From the tone of pete's posts, I think that these statements are the one's that really get pete's goat...
With that said, peter, you don't belong here. None of the cars on this list are American, so there's absolutely no point in arguing about American quality/reliability *in this topic*. I suggest heading over to the "Foreign or Domestic" topic, where your views will be more on-topic.
BTW I am referring to the NA market, thanks for sending us the facts.
End Of Topic
Does it really matter what kind of steel my car is made with? Does it really matter what kind of leather my car has in it? Does it really matter what the on-paper performance says? No. What matters is which car I like better. That is my opinion, and that is what makes me who I am.
On paper, the Chevy Metro is probably the most perfect car you can get. Great mileage, decent performance, excellent price. However, I don't like the Metro so therefore I won't buy one. That's my opinion.
Am I educated? Not only am I educated (and certainly more educated than a 19 year old freshman or sophomore), but I work in the auto industry. I know from personal experience that opinions count.
Camry is very rare in Avis and Herz's fleet (They both reported Chevy lumina and Ford Taurus constitute the their midsize fleet). The number of camrys in fleet is insignifcant compared to the demand for Camrys in the used car market out there. Just like Honda's fleet sale is insignificant to the demand in the used car market for Accords. So rest assured that Camry and Accord will hold it's resale very well.
You might not believe it right now, but Camrys are going to have a high resale for many years to come, simply because of its top notch reputation and it's ever increasing popularity (and the resulting demand).
End of topic.
when it comes to car talk? Judging by this
forum, it is. When it comes to a 20+ thousand
dollar purchase, I suppose anything goes.
Joseph
in Vermont
Which car do you think needs to be shifted at 4000 rpm and performs better than Civic Si? Somebody was thinking that if S2000 is shifted at 5500 rpm, it will do 0-60 in 12 seconds. These are funny and ignorant assumptions. Why would a 400 lb lighter car, with more torque and horsepower at same rpms take 1.5X of the time when it is not geared like a truck?
So before you claim that these are ignorant assumptions, you may want to study up on VTEC engines. The same goes for just about any engine with variable valve timing (like Toyota's VVTL-i engines). Nice technology at a price.
VTEC sounds great for performance oriented drivers-why put it in a honda. My current honda is a 97 lx with a standard 4 cyl engine-85K and nada problems or suprpises. It sounds like a VTEC would be a dog unless you really wind it up. Comments
At 4000rpm, it's producing probably no less than 90lb*ft of torque. And even at idle, its producing more than 60lb*ft.
The S2000 is similar, with over 60% of peak torque at idle, 85% at 2000rpm and within 90% all the way from 3000rpm to redline.
This quote from Road & Track just about sums up the VTEC: "Drop below 5000 rpm and there's not a whole lot going on, but from there to 8000, hang on and enjoy!"-About the Integra GS-R
I hope my above post helped you too to understand the way VTEC adds fuel to fire. However, you made a conclusion in your post about mating the high performance VTEC to auto. Neither GS-R/Integra Type-R nor Civic Si come with auto option. Prelude does have the auto with SportShift (like TL) but the larger displacment also allows it to have more low end torque, and also, Prelude's engine develops peak power at 7000 rpm (6800 rpm in Japan). The auto in Prelude also reduces peak power output by 5 HP (manual has 200 HP, auto has 195 HP at same rpm). NSX has F1 style auto shifter (with the original 3.0/V6, not with the 3.2/V6), but comes at the cost of reduced performance (252 HP versus 270 HP at 6600 rpm). The VTEC in SOHC on TL, Odyssey and Accord (US) is not the same as the high revvers, and Civic EX has completly different design of its SOHC VTEC.
I appolgize for taking this topic away from what it was meant to be, after reading the previous posts, I thought it was more about VTEC than about Passat/Camry/Accord!
One last post...
Which engine do you think is more powerful,
1.8 liter DOHC Protege ES (120 HP) or,
1.8 liter DOHC Miata (140 HP), or,
1.8 liter DOHC Integra LS/GS (140 HP),
1.8 liter DOHC VTEC Integra GS-R (170 HP)?
Add a performance chip for a few hundred bucks and take it to @195 hp!
1.8L DOHC Protege ES 120 lb-ft @ 4000
1.8L DOHC Miata 119 lb-ft @ 5500
1.8L DOHC Integra LS/GS 124 lb-ft @ 5200
1.8L DOHC VTEC Integra GS-R 128 lb-ft @ 6200
Well, if you want to add a turbo engine, let me add a Mazda rotary engine:
1.3L rotary naturally aspirated: 280hp
We still seem to be arguing over nothing. VTEC produces lots of power after the cam profile switch. So, if you redline your engines all day, then the VTEC is great. If you prefer to keep engine rpm's in the first half of the tach, then VTEC is wasted because it is never activated. Plus, when you look at peak torque, VTEC doesn't really offer much of an advantage.
We are back to square one, torque is not power. Horsepower is power. Torque and engine speed give us what we call Horsepower (and is measured in watts or HP or whatever). And the longer the torque is held, the more powerful the engine is, and revs don't come cheap. I don't like TD engines for the same reason. They have all the torque at low rpms and make the cars extremely slow.
(do you know how much torque Integra LS/GS puts out at 4000 rpm?).
Better yet, Mazda has dropped the price of the Millenia S roughly $10,000 since 1998. For about $2,000 more than a Passat GLX, you can get this amazing engine and an entry-level luxury sports sedan. The Millenia S is a terrific bargain.
Here's how this little engine works: It uses delayed intake valve timing with the aid of a Lysholm compressor and dual intercoolers to reduce pumping loss (the power an engine wastes while trying to breath). The intake valve stays open half way through the compression stroke. The result is a compression ratio of 8:1 and an expansion ratio of 10:1. In this way, this 2.3L puts out the power of a 3.5L but gets the fuel efficiency of the 2.3L that it is. The whole design is "the epitome of the reciprocating engine" as put by Wards Auto. I think Mazda should embrace this technology much like Honda has done with VTEC. Of course, Mazda still dreams of having a full line of rotary powered cars. But, they have been developing a Miller Cycle rotary engine...
1. It's a Mitsibushi
2. It's not a BMW
BTW: I would never consider a Mitsu, therefore I have no need to test drive one.
If long-term history means anything to either of you then you would have to agree that Mitsu's and Mazda's just don't last. Why would I look at either when I know they will break down more frequently. Same goes for Chrysler, they look great and I'm sure they're alot better than they were, but I have had alot of Chrysler products over the years and have been burned more than once and won't buy another. -History
BTW: What's the value on a Galant after 5 years?
BUT, the Mitsubishi is not as proven as the Accord or Camry. The resale value is not as high and you don't have "brand recognition". I do sell the Mitsubishis and they are a worthwhile alternative to the Camry and Accord. However, it has not yet surpassed either of the above.
It is cheaper price wise, but the other 2 have more history. If I were to have to buy a car all over again, I would still buy the Accord. The Accord was the best car for me and you can not get a 5 speed Galant. But, if I had a budget and had few thousand dollars less to spend the Galant would be high on my list of choices.
In short, the Galant is a good option to those who do not want to pay Accord and Camry money. It has the same options, a good warranty, and it is overall a great car. Especially considering you can get a V6 for 20k.
But I do agree with you that this forum is for Accord, Camry, and the Passat so I will end this post right now.
See post #252 you clearly state "It looks like a BMW series 5."
The real point here is that this is not a Mitsu thread and you should go make your own.
end discussion.
And why can't a $16K car look like a BMW? What's so absurd or unbelievable about that?
Here's what I think. It's a great car, and overall offers a better ride/handling combo than both the Accord or Camry. It has a better 4 than both. It only two faults with it are A) it could use better brakes and
With that said, Mitsubishi has a very bad reputation for reliability, and the Galant is a new model. It is a great value, but no moreso than a 626, V6 Contour, or Altima.
The Mazda 626 however probably has the worst reputation for reliability out of any midsized sedan today, foreign or domestic. I checked one out and it was OK, but when I checked the 626 topic, the complaints were unbelievable. In fact, there was this one guy who worked at a transmission place. He said he saw more Mazdas than anything else. Now seriously, think about what this statement means. Mazda has a 1% market share. GM and Ford have a 24% to 28% market share. So, if the Mazda was simply as reliable as GMs or Fords, the GMs and Fords should be in there 24-28X as much. But the Mazda was in more than both of them. (More than 24-28X less reliable transmission.)
Needless to say, if you're going to get one, get a manual.
But, this is a Accord, Camry, and Passat topic, so I will quietly sink away.
There is a law of diminishing returns with the amount of money people spend on their vehicles. Is a 40 thousand dollar car twice the car of a Accord/Camry/Galant. No way. Is a 5 series BMW twice as fast, twice as safe, twice as much fun? Doubtful. Does it boost the ego of the driver twice as much? Sure, why else would someone buy one. I believe the Accord is the perfect balance between cost, performance, safety and value.
Lets face it, most people purchase what they can comfortably afford. The average new car on the road today costs @$20,000. If everyone's income increased by $50,000 next year, I guarantee you would see a increase in the amount people spend on new cars.
I've owned several Honda Accords and they are great reliable transportation. If you are not the kind of person who has a passion for cars the Accord will be more than you ever need. But if you truly enjoy "driving", as income increases so will the quality of the cars you purchase.
I believe the luxury car market is going after buyers in their mid 30s to mid 50s with household incomes of over $125,000. Having buying power does not make one a millionaire. Not to mention having a net worth of over a million dollars is not that unusual anymore. Most of us in our 30s and 40s had better have a plan in place to be a millionaire by the time we retire.
There are many millionaires out there who have earned a relatively modest wage throughout their life but have saved diligently and acquired wealth. These are not the people who are buying luxury cars. I stated in the previous posts, that regardless of money you still need to have a passion for cars.
It would be interesting to see what the average age of a millionaire in this country is. I would imagine in their late 60s. Again, probably not people purchasing European and Japanese luxury cars...maybe Town Cars and Caddilac DeVilles.
In any case, I stand by my comment that if you took the "average" American and increased their salary in the year 2000 by over $50,000, you would see a dramatic increase in the number of luxury automobiles sold.
BTW, my wife and I combined make considerably more than the $125K figure mentioned above (I'm not trying to brag) but I wouldn't even consider overpaying for the perceived status and luxury that an Acura, Volvo, Saab, Lexus, Mercedes or Bimmer would offer. The only thing I would desire in my Accord, that isn't generally offered at this price point is added safety. The 2000 Accord, in its more expensive trim versions, now has a SIPS system. But the Swedes and the Germans seem to excel at this.
Sports cars are a little different. Vettes and their ilk are driven for performance and some status.
Ferrari's, Rolls, Bentley's are ALL about status.