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Comments
Based on most reliable estimates the chanle would at MY2004, which would reach us in 2003.
I too received delivery of my M5 several weeks ago. I have put up 2500 miles of mostly commute driving, and have had to top up the oil level only once, but I have been told by the dealer to check the level every 500 miles. As long as I am only having to top it up once in a while then I am not concerned.
I agree that the clutch is clunky in traffic, but it's getting cleaner (could be my 'no good' left foot).
Definitely no regrets so far, but I do feel guilty about clocking up so many 'commute' miles.
Thanks
I've certainly not experienced anything like "jackmcdaniel" msg.#259.
I have a friend with an E55, great car, wish they made it with a 'stick' not just 'auto'. M3, not enough power with the current models, and the waiting list for the 2001 is way too long, plus production has been delayed twice already. If you want to jump the list and buy one 'used'(minimal miles) next year, be prepared to pay $10K over MSRP
However, I hardly believe the statement "There isn't a four door car on earth that can touch it."
Hmmm. I guess the E55 is sold on other planets. Also, references to embarrasing C5 Corvettes and laughing at Porsche 911's? I don't know about that. Last I checked, these cars could easily match the M5's performance, if not overmatch it, albeit by a very small margin. Speaking of margins, a few tenths of a second to sixty or down the quartermile hardly counts for anything in street-driven situations. I will commend BMW for offering this level of performance in a luxury-oriented sedan, but come on Edmunds!! Stating misinformation to your readers is hypocritical journalism.
That said, thankfully us enthusiasts are usually up-to-date on our information and know enough to check various sources for validity of information, not to mention over-enthusiasm of a particular car marque by some publications.
-Brian S.
Happy Motoring. ;-)
Pocahontas,
Edmunds.com/Roving Host
"An increased stroke is the shortest path to more torque and the M5 delivers in 500 cubic-inch, American big-block V8-type portions."
Is just wrong. The block size is actually around 290 (or so) cubic inches -- the size of an American _small-block_ V8, not big-block.
What about the E55/S55?
Koesel, the author was using a simile to COMPARE the engine power of the M5 with big blocks... e.g. the word "portions." It is obvious that it doesn't displace that much, since he said later "Massive amounts of big-block-style torque are available at any engine or vehicle speed, in any gear - remarkable for a motor barely displacing more than 300 cubic inches. It almost feels as if the faster you go, the harder the engine pushes you to license-endangering velocities."
Brian S, if you look at other publications, they all ranked the M5 ahead of the E55.. Automobile, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend (they liked the M5 better than a freaking Aston Martin).
Mmcbride1, I already stated that the E55s that have tried to keep up with this beast.. can't. The S55 is a beautiful car, but is so overgrown for a sports sedan that I would be surprised if it could come within a second of the M5's times.
Additionally, I have driven an E55 as well and it doesn't come close to delivering on any level except for neck-snapping acceleration from a dead start. The exterior, interior, ergonomics are all behind.
And the point about oil.. some owners use a lot, others don't. But, it all goes away after 7,000 miles no matter what. And the car gets sweeter and sweeter as time goes by. This is definitely the best sports sedan in the world, and everyone knows it (especially automobile journalists.. including Tiff Needell). It will be the same in the next generation as well (in about 5 years for the new E"XX", M5, and XJ"X" offerings)
Let's face facts, the review is overstated and over-glorifies a glorious automobile. Edmund's writers (the ones that had input into this article) do a little too much sensationalizing. If I owned a C5 or 996, I would not be intimitated by an M5, nor should I be. In fact, I'm sure very few M5 owners, as with all cars, can drive the car to beyond 80% of it's potential. All due respect given to those who can explore those limits.
-Brian
http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/Desert%20Race.mpg
another one with Tiff Needell where he says that "the competition from Jaguar and Mercedes has been washed aside," referring to the XJR and E55.
http://www.taner.net/movies/Top_Gear-M5_Test_Drive.mpg
And regarding the quarter mile times, the general rule is that horsepower adds to higher overall top speed, while torque usually gets you there faster. The E55 has almost 30 ft.lbs of more torque than the M5, yet it is still slower in the quarter mile and to 60 mph.
Take a look at the MotorTrend article. The M5 took the top spot in the one-mile standing acceleration test, beating the second-place Aston Martin DB7 by .4 sec and flattening the E55 by 2 seconds. The Porsche 911 Carrera? Somewhere in the middle... I would definitely say the M5 is at least in the same class as the 911.
American big-block V8-type portions" is that it ACTS like a big-block American V8 -- not that it has one.
Furthermore, it's borderline untrue. It may hold for yesteryear, but not of today's Big-Blocks (which are scarce in production cars -- the 550hp, 428 cu. in. one in the Saleen S7 being the only one I know of). The GM LS6, an American _small block_ would be a better comparison, at least torque wise (which is what he was refering to, there).
These 3 cars are all awesome, let's say that right away. But as you can imagine from my personality profile, I value comfort in a car, and while the XJR isn't the most spacious or practical of the 3 cars it certainly is the cuddliest and has a superb interior, woods and leather, that the other two teutonic cars simply can not quite match. Also, if we had to think absolute dream cars, mine would be a Rolls or Bentley, and not a Ferrari. So that ultimate sharp-handling is lost on me because it does come at the expense of comfort: both the M5 and especially the E55 have quite bone-jarring rides, in my opinion, and I am not sure I want to dish out $70k for a car that establishes my intimate aquaintance with every pothole on my daily commute.
And I must say what made me turn away from the M5 and E55 was the fact that I am not sure I agree with a model policy that stretches the same middle-class sedan platform that can be had in the high $30k's into the $70k luxury realm. I prefer Jaguar policy of simply powering up a native luxury platform. Jaguar could and probably will come out with an S-Type supercharged model, but it would be equally wasted on me. There are, I think, technical and image limitations to doing that, and I think the interiors as well as the somewhat undistinguishable overall design of the E55 or M5 attest to that. Call me a snob, but if I pay $70k for a car, I resent the car vendor making the same basic platform available for $38k or so to address another market segment.
The XJR definitely is the baby Bentley of these 3 cars, while the M5 and E55 are the one that want to provide the true sporting thrill. Different philosophies.
Engine-wise, whoever tells me they can tell a difference must be joking. All these three have more power and torque than you'll ever truly use anywhere on the road. Sure it's fun to get off a stoplight, but you learn quickly it is very silly and also somewhat stupid. I am very aware I could probably be just as happy with the base XJ8 model, so really, before going for any of these: look deep into yourself and see whether you really wouldn't be just as happy with 290-300hp - the base models are no slouches, and they're actually softer and probably, with the exception of the XJR, more comfortable.
Little gripes with the Jag? I actually like the fact it is smaller inside, it gives it a 4-seat classic grand tourer feel on the inside, rather than a sedan's, and makes it even cozier - you want to be close to all that leather and wood anyway. People touch stuff all the time. What I do not quite like is the fact the seat seems somewhat short leg-wise for someone 6'1, like me (mind you, it is still a very sumptuously comfortable car), and especially something that all of these cars are guilty off: get those damn controls off the steering wheel. Heavens, how many bottons do we want close to our hands? I know you have to reach farther if the controls are on the console, but all I do not like all these little buttons here and there that are crowded around the steering wheel. I do not buy the ergonomic benefit. I prefer good old buttons on the console for the light, the stereo and such. Call me old fashioned. But it seems you always do something wrong when it comes to seldom operated functions on this car. Particulalry since the lights go on by themselves, as do the wipers... what on earth are all these levers really good for, then? Some folks might dislike the whine of the supercharger, some will love its turbine like sound and feel, but do not expect a deep bass V8 growl in tha car. The sound that comes out of the exhaust pipes is more classic, though - only you don't hear it from the inside, the XJR is way insulated.
But again, in the end, it all comes down to philosphies, and to judge by the E55 and M5 waiting lists those can't even remotely be thought of as bad cars. I could be happy with either of the 3, but for my particular car philosphy I have no doubt the XJR was by far the best choice.
Hope this helps some, and really, it is all just my personal opinion, at no point do I remotely hint that E55 or M5 owners/lovers backed the wrong car. They are phenomenal machines, and I wish I could trade with you for a few days here and there. :-) It's just about the personal choice and motivations that made me go a certain way. It was a hard choice. And ultimately, even when it does not hurt you financially, you ask yourself whether it really is worth it spending $70k on a new car. Maybe I am just weird in that. That is another subject. :-)
Thanks for your comments. ;-)
Pocahontas,
Edmunds.com/Roving Host
The VDP's interior indeed is incredible. A business acquaintance has it, and while my XJR is quite spectacular interior wise, the VDP takes the cake - the leather is even more sumptuous and soft. The carpets feel like you're resting your feet on live sheep. Then again, I would not trade my XJR for a VDP. The extra leg room sure makes the rear accommodations great, but I want a driver's car, not one to chaffeur others with. The XJR is more cozy, but has a great 4-door grand tourer ambience, more ike a sports-tourer. The VDP's and XJ8L's longer wheelbase makes the lines somewhat less subtle to my eye. It looks like a bit of an afterthought.
The engine of course is sweet, but I am not sure big V8 afficcionados will be sold on the sound from the inside: from inside, you hear the high-pitched whine of the turbocharger. The turbine like feel is amazing, though. From the outside, the pipes have the low V8 growl, though. When a guy drove my car away in the valet, and I heard it for the first time, I thought "whoa, that sounds really different from the outside, cool".
And the VDP SC in all fairness competes more with the likes of the Benz S class and the Beemer 7 class and the Audi A8. And surely has the beat when it comes to interior. I don't know why German manufacturer's interiors always have to come across so cold, to a certain degree. They are awesme cars, but the interior looks somewhat cheap considering what Jags offer for the same price. Not that price is such a big factor with these cars.
for yesteryear, but not of today's Big-Blocks
(which are scarce in production cars -- the 550hp,
428 cu. in. one in the Saleen S7 being the only one I know of)."
Geez, lighten up -- they were just making a point about how gutsy the car felt. And pablo_1's point about "to each his own" is right on.
Comfort and style are very important indeed.
I gave up plenty of speed and excitment for the style and comfort that is the S500. The Jag did not do it for me in the styling front.
I enjoyed your post tremendously.
Our CEO got himself the S500, too, and is in total infatuation with the car. And his other car is a Ferrari...
...pablo
"..Additionally, oil is cooled by a coolant-oil heat exchanger, the first-ever application of this on a gasoline engine.."?
I have seen small engines such as Toyota 2.2L and larger engines such as Ford 6.8L/5.4L with oil to coolant heat exchanger. They may not as big as the one on Duramax 6.6L turbodiesel, but they sure do provide enought cooling for a 10000+ lb GCR vehicle. By the way, how big is the heat exchanger on M5 anyway?
I decided on the XJR for a number of reasons, and am fully aware that most of them are irrational, and that I could probably be just as happy with the normal XJ8, since cars with over 280HP can hardly be labeled performance laggards. And considering US speed limits, I am aware the XJR's 370HP represent a total overkill. But it's fun, and in the case of the XJR I preferred the less chromy and slightly more edgy styling.
The S class would be my preference over the E55 due to comfort. The E55 is a magnificent performance car, but day to day, particulalry on California roads, I'd find it much too harsh. Out of the XJR, M5 and such, the E55 surely has the roughest ride. Superb sporting capabilties, yes, but I want luxury cars to be somewhat soft. It is just a personal preference, though, and if I had a very windy mountain road on my way to work I am sure I'd go for the trade-off.
Ultimately, you got to analyze your passion level, and see which car suits you better day by day. While luxury cars always represent a certain amount of irrationality, I do think the E55 is higher up the passion scale and represents the more irrational choice. Which naturally also means that is that's the way your heart goes, you will be much happier with it.
Good luck with your decision. I know I did not regret getting the XJR, even though I had to laugh at my true inner motivations.
One concern I do have is leg/head room. I'm around 6' 1" (as are you, if I recall), and wonder if you are occasionally bothered by any lack of leg or head room. I myself like to be comfortable in my car, and would like any passengers to be fairly comfortable too. I've recently been wondering about the upcoming 400 hp S-Type. I like the looks of the XJR much better, but may be willing to sacrifice that for more room. Would you suggest this choice?
Of course, by the time I can actually get my hands on a Jag, the new body style will probably make it's premere, so I really shouldn't be concerned with such things.
The problem I have with a more powerful S-Type is the same problem I have with the M5 or even the E55 - I somewhat resent a $40k platform being stretched into the near-$70k realm. I personally prefer a native luxury platform. I am aware the engineering those cars have is awesome, but at that price I personally also want more unique style, and those platforms are slightly more pedestrain than the XJ. Even if they are probably more practical. It comes back to the passion element - I have no doubt the XJR is a car that is as if it was designed for me: it has some quirks, but I think it more than offsets them with some other aspects. And I am totally aware other people don't necessarily feel that way, and would think the XJR a somewhat dated and quirky base platform.
Power? All these cars have more than one can rationally use. To be honest, I have chilled a lot and hardly ever use even 50% of the car's performance envelope, I do not want to be losing my license, and this car makes it incredibly easy to get into trouble.
Pros:
Tradition, class, performance, and an interior that has people gasping. A blue-collar Bentley, so to say. :-) It is quite an amazing car. The 2001 version is superbly finished, and it does provide thrills when your inner adolescent gets the better of you off a stoplight. All performance aspect aside - it's the cuddled, warm interior. No German car has that warmth and oppulence inside. That wood and leather and design... makes you just indulge. Amazing stereo, too. The ride is also much softer than you'd expect for a car with very sporty tires and a suspension tasked with taming 370hp... Mileage is also better than you'd expect from such a performance package.
Cons:
It is more of a 4-door sportscar than a 4-seat sedan. The interior can be called cozy or somewhat crammed - since I had a coupe before, I like the feel very much, but hey, at 6'1 I know the S class provides better rear seat accomodations. The ergonomics - there are too many buttons just off the steering wheel. Close and convenient, maybe, but it's busy, and you invariably hit what you shouldn't. Some might object to the supercharged whine that takes away from the 8-cyl growl, though I personally like the turbine like nature and sound.
Overall Review:
A car that has soul, tradition, and attitude. Quite the gentleman's hotrod, it is your accomplice inviting you to go for childish stunts, but the two of you arrive everywhere looking all class and style, and when you close that door with a heavy thunk you take a brief time to wink at each other as your straighten out your cashmere blazer. A muscular, yet relaxed and playful and elegant kitten. The interior is what really gets me - it is classy oppulence, superbly finished. Other cars might be roomier and have better ergonomics, but I doubt they'll make you feel as welcome. The ride is remarkably comfortable for such a performance car, too, and the utterly effortless way it zigs and zags is so much fun. Truly a great car.
Regarding the XK8, I also took a look at that car but for me, one of my major complaints were the whine from the supercharger. In fact I test drove 2 in a row because the first one had a VERY loud whine from the supercharger. These were both brand new cars. My second complaint is that the XK8 just doesn't offer the same amount of room as my E55. The third complaint is the seats are too short. This makes for a very unpleasant long drive. Lastly, after driving my E55, the XK8 just didn't seem to have the same type of punch.
But I don't want to sounds like a basher of the XK8. Like one of the previous posts said, the interior is very sumptious. The leather and wood is beautiful in this car. If I wanted something that was pure luxury, I'd have gotten a Jag.
But, I wanted both which meant the E55. If I wanted more performance, I would have gotten the BMW.
I assume you mean the XJR, 4-doors and supercharged?
In any case, all our posts show that there'sno right or wrong and better or worse - they are all phenomenal cars that appeal to different people very differently. I sure as hell would not be miserable for the rest of my life if fate replaced the XJR in my garage with an M5 or E55 - I think I'd come to terms of acceptance somehow. :-)
I do think, though, that out of the XJR, M5 and E55 that is also the order of the stiffness of the ride. Mind you, it also means that is the reverse order of true cornering capability, provided anyone really corners such cars near their limits. Thus, it's up to the passionate individual to decide which design trait appeals more to his/her very own preferences.
...pablo
However, after about 2,000 miles the ride began to soften up a bit and now I prefer it. I suppose maybe I just got use to it.
By the way, anyone ever see a Designo E-55? I just order one.