Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Glad you like your S500 -- may you live and be well (and never be "silly"!)
All five make reference to other posters in some way.
Further posts of this nature regardless of any other redeeming value will be removed. If you folks want to continue this discussion, you are going to have go back to talking about your opinions of the vehicles and stop talking about your opinions of other Town Hall members.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
(1) I could be happy with any of these cars. They're all utterly top-notch, and it'll merely be individual preference and taste giving the nod.
(2) None of these cars have any blatant weaknesses, or they'd simply not sell at all. They simply offer different value propositions.
(3) If I could own 10 cars, all these brands would be represented in my garage.
Pablo - we came close too that 1800 mark. Hope I was right that that was the bottom. Good luck investing.
For all the talk about the Beemer 7-series being a "sportier" proposition, I personally feel those days are past. Both S-class and Lexus 430 are simply faster than the somewhat dated 740, whose taut character is more a sign of dated chassis than of performance-orientation. If you want performance, get an M3 or M5, really.
I am not a big fan of the L or Van Den Plas. The latter has an awesome interior, but somehow the stretch of the rear somehow takes away from the design, in my humble opinion.
I do like the near 2 + 2 GT car philosophy of the XJR and the regular XJ8.
The car (2001 BMW 7 L) rides more like a sports car than a luxury car. It's just to tight and you feel every bump in the road. If I wanted a sports car I would have bought one.
He or she talks about other cars owned including various American cars and a Jaguar.
pablo1 writes: taut character is more a sign of dated chassis than of performance-orientation.
With all due respect the 7 Series does have a different character than the LS430. It is performance oriented. The above post was upset that the BMW did not ride like a Cadillac. What is modern about that.
Mercedes fans spent 10 years saying the LS400 was nothing but a fake LS400. Now a 7 Series is an inferior Lexus? Is the IS a more modern 3 Series?
My advice is: do not believe that every cookie cutter cuts to the shape of a Lexus or the Mercedes it famously copied- if you do you might end up like the owner above with a car you hate.
A taut suspension is not a sign of inferior design -- it's the direct recult of tuning the suspension more for handling than ride, and is something at which BMW excels. Even the vaunted Mercedes has so far been unable to duplicate BMW's wonderful mix of handling and ride. Lexus concentrates more on ride and NVH -- and excels at that.
None of these cars are a fake anything -- they all reflect their creators' attempts to offer the finest luxury car possible in that price category, and they all succeed in some areas to the detriment of others. The BMW probably succeeds best overall, with a wonderful sense of balance, luxury, performance and ride. It also has styling that smokes the competition, in my opinion.
The only thing that seems to stick in some peoples' craw is the similarity of the LS430 styling to the previous generation S-class. That's obviously not something that bothers the people who buy them..
The Mercedes came in well behind, at 7.1.
Everything is relative -- in this group of cars, the BMW is clearly the most sports-oriented -- although it is no sports car, nor does it pretend to be.
Look at me, defending BMW's honor! I crack myself up....
Needless to say, none of these cars, even with stick, comes close to the XJR's acceleration. That said, *I* did not buy the XJR for "sports orientation". It would be quite a weird line of thought to buy any of these cars if one wants something that even remorelty resembles a sportscar. That is, again, M5 territory. Or get a real sportscar.
V8 to V8, the Lexus wins, followed by the BMW, with the Mercedes and Jaguar training badly.
Sorry.
PS -- when Lexus introduces its V12, we can revisit this comparison.
And the V12 is the S600 or CL600 in the Merc line. 500s are still V8s.
For the record, the cars tested were:
Mercedes S430 with 4,3L V8, at $78,305
BMW 740iL with 4.4L V8, at $71,070
Jaguar XJ8L with 4.0L V8, at $65,950
Lexus LS430 with 4.3L V8, at $61,171
Those were the models that most closely approximated each other, price-wise. My point was that you can get better performance from all three European cars, but you'll have to pay more for it, thereby increasing the price gap between them and the Lexus. However, if performance is your bag (as it is mine), it would be well worth your while, I'm sure. Glad you like your car!
I was VERY impressed with the Lexus, we may arrange a drive in the Ultra Lux. But I think I still prefer the BMW. The 750 is quieter, smoother, more powerful, better looking, and far more spacious. Crappy dealers and too many visits to them have spurred the consideration of the Lexus. I found the role reversal interesting, my conception of the comparison was very different before yesterday.
And BTW the dealer told me the Euro Tuned suspension on the Lexus has been dropped. Is this the case? I would be interested in driving that one as well.
I imagine that the LWB BMW would have a more supple ride due to the longer wheelbase and greater weight, and would certainly have more legroom. It's a gorgeous car in any case. If BMW had the Lexus customer experience, they'd be unstoppable.
It wasn't that the fit and finish was poor by any stretch. I just didn't care for the execution of a couple of details.
I agree wholeheartedly on the customer service end. While they were really kissing butt this time around, there was a reason. The last time the car was in for service they put over 300 miles on the car without clearing it with me. The guy that drove it moved in, new radio staitions, and power seat settings in memory. In addition the simple fact that it needs a dealer visit at all, as new as it is, bothers me. This is the trade off I willingly made though when I bought the car. I do wonder about a Euro Tuned suspension on the LS430, was the salesman correct, is it dead?
Service at my BMW dealership is O.K., but I have to visit too often. The last visit they reversed my power window button. Their loaner cars, if you can get one, are old, dirty VW Jettas.
Maybe it was the tires. The only problem is that I would have to live with that noise 6 months out of the year. My 750 is pretty quiet on snows.
Fortunately my dealer offers new 323s as loners. The other dealer in town sticks you in a Taurus. Pure purgatory after dropping off a 750.
Sounds like you've got a really dim-bulb dealer. I honestly can't imagine a normal BOW (or any other luxury brand) dealer sticking the owner of a 750iL in a Jetty -- that's just pure stupidity.
Brent: The EM Bridge stones on ALL Toyota and nexus products are universally abhorred. I switched to Sumitomos and never looked back -- my wife's Celica is next.
Oh yeah -- that's "Jetta" (not "Jetty") in the second paragraph and "OEM" tires in the last paragraph (not "EM"). "Bridge stones" was supposed to be one word (not a construction material), and the brand is "Lexus" -- not "nexus".
Whew!!!
Thanks for your help!!
About This Chat:
Be our guest for an hour of Town Hall Chat Brake! Here is your chance to meet and greet other auto fans. This chat is for those of you who share similar interests, have questions and need answers, or simply want a place to discuss and debate your News and your Views of the auto industry. Bring your sense of humor and race on in to this NEW chat only on Edmunds.com!
toyota to supply 200,000 units in 2001, 800,000 units by 2003
Toyota had already been supplying volvo and renault
Will mercedes be next?
http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/e/2001/0406/e32nco_si0406_01.html
goto http://530i.org to get more info
from what I hear, even the alusil replacements for the nikasil block were not durable and were prone to premature failure.. thru 1999...
I think this V8 was an hurried attempt to combat the onslaught of the lexus/infiniti V8's in 1990...
and I think BMw still hasn't gotten it right...
I wouldn't drive a BMW V8 or any BMW for that matter without a comprehensive warranty
you might also wanna check out www.koalamotorsport.com(something like this) as well for more info
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Nope. Mercedes won't be next.
M
I dunno...
Hyundai already incorporates variable valve technology in it's gasoline direct injection engine(4.5litre V8) and remember Diamler-Chrysler-Mercedes have formed a strategic alliance with Hyundai...
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/mercedeschat.html
This story will touch on the following trends:
-the gadgets in high-end vehicles from the Lexus LS 430 and Volvo S80 to Porsches and beyond
-drivers in their 40s-60s buying sports cars
-driver distraction
If you have anything to add, we'd love to hear from you. Please submit your experience to Talk to the Press and/or to jfallon@edmunds.com, including your current vehicle, daytime phone number and city and state of residence. (Your identity will be protected at your request.)
Thanks for your consideration of this opportunity to share your story!
Regards,
Jeannine Fallon
Director of Public Relations
jfallon@edmunds.com