Audi A4 2004 and earlier

bodydouble · November 2002

I always thought notchy meant the shifter doesn't have that teflon feel to it, and doesn't "snick snick" into each gear. The shifter would seem to get hung up going through the gates.

markcincinnati · November 2002

The lack of the teflon feel is exactly it! My wife's old (2001) TT was a bit smoother shifting than my new allroad (except for the shift between 5th and 6th which is very snick snick smooth.

There is, by no definition I can think of, no sloppy feel whatsoever. If by sloppy you mean "long throw" I guess that is possible -- my last dedicated full time manual was a 1995 S6 -- I have been out of the stick shift world so long that I will not be able YET to give my normal "thorough" review and/or opinion.

I like the shifter in the allroad -- I love the car, so far -- the things that will take some more time include the shifter and the power and the suspension. I am not yet fully acclimated to it as I was with my A6 4.2's.

I would hardly call the shifting mechanism bad by any means however.

bodydouble · November 2002

I'm thinking "rubbery", where you can't tell if you're in gear or not.

Incidentally, the one car that I thought was disappointingly notchy was a 2000 Prelude, perhaps because I had read nothing but rave reviews about it's supposedly superb shifter. Other than the 4-5 and 5-4 shifts, that thing would more often than not crunch thru each shift. Just not what I had expected from a Honda manual.

scuba7 · November 2002

I've been wanting a 2003 CVT 1.8 FWD, but can't find one with lumbar support (heard the 2003's are coming out with lumbar support in Spring 2003). However, I came across a 2002 demo, but it's a quatro 1.8 (wanted the CVT for the gas mileage). I thought if they offered me a good enough price, I'd settle for the 2002 demo, since it has lumbar support. The salesman said the info. about the invoice price I got here online was wrong, (yet he wouldn't show me his invoice -said he's not an invoice dealer, that would be Chevy)! For the 5000 mile demo, he's asking 28000, (not including ttl). The only options are xenon headlights, 5 spoke 16" wheels, and sunroof. Does this sound like a good deal, or should I try negotiating lower?
Thanks

dtwleungnyc · November 2002

Why don't you just special order one? It might take a bit longer, BUT, you will get the car exactly the way you want.

Can't really comment on the price, but if you really like that car and don't mind that it already has 5000 miles on it. Start him at around 26K and see what happens, and hope that he will make a counter offer, I have a feeling that 27,200 - 27,500 should do it. BUT, only do this if you are really serious about this demo car. If in doubt, order the car that you REALLY want.

IMHO, one thing that I discovered when I was shopping for my car. You need to look past the price and look at the car itself. Sounds simple, but I see a lot of people overlook this. It doesn't matter what a great price you get, if the car is not the one that you want to drive for 1-5 years down the road. Make sense?

Good luck and please keep us update on what happens.

markcincinnati · November 2002

Full sticker is a good price if you are satisfied.

I'd order the one I wanted, if I were you. The only way you'll be happy with the demo is if the price is "so low" you don't have to ask if it is a good deal.

As I read your post, the car must not be THAT attractive to you since you are focusing on price instead of the features, functions and benefits that this purchase will bring you.

So either get the one you really want or only acquire the one you don't want (well, not exactly that you don't want, but you get my drift) at a price you can't refuse.

The sweetness of low price is quickly forgotten if the car "just ain't right!" [sic]

tiredofmanual · November 2002

Is that demo a manual or automatic? If it's a manual, I think you should be able to get the car for a little less.

BTW, what gas mileage are you looking for? My 1.8T Quattro with manual is averaging about 25 mpg in pretty much 50/50 driving.

scirocco22 · November 2002

Julie-- I calculated the invoice price on the car you described on the Edmunds' calculator and this is what I came up with:

2002 1.8T quattro 5A (Tiptronic) with metallic paint, sunroof, 16" wheels and Xenons. Invoice price is $28,160.

So, IMO, for a demo with 5,000 miles on it, you should be able to get it for much less than the invoice price. If the dealer won't budge any more than $28,000, then I'd have to agree with the other posters: forget it and order the car you really want.

I understand your thinking when you say that "if" you could get the 2002 quattro demo for a "good enough" price, then the compromise might be worth it. I have the tendency to think that way too when shopping but as I grow older and wiser, I'm starting to understand the merits of Mark's reasoning.

But looking at the other side of the equation and taking David's comments into effect, if you could get that demo for a spectacular price (I think David hit it pretty close ...only I might suggest that you hold your ground at $26,000), it might be worth looking at. Even though gas mileage may be important to you, there are numerous benefits of quattro --which we won't go into again right now unless you request our input on that-- which make a quattro equipped vehicle a cherished feature amongst some of us here.

Keep us posted and good luck.

"Sloppy" shifter: I believe I started that description but it wasn't one which originated with me. It was what a friend described but I'd have to assume he meant what bodydouble described as "rubbery" ...? I don't know for sure. I've always liked the feel of VAG shifters even though the throw in the stock shifters are rather long. Honda and other Japanese manufacturers do have a sort of "silky" feel to their shifters but somewhat of an "isolated" feel for lack of a better description.

--'rocco

markcincinnati · November 2002

My wife let me take the new TT today -- 600 miles on it. It seems "notchy" to shift it into first gear, other than that it "almost" snicks into each gear -- fourth, fifth and sixth are very smooth.

I am getting old, the TT, which is very nice -- seems so RAW compared to my A6 or the new allroad -- but with the 18" wheel/tire option the steering is really crisp. It is almost that you think where you want it to go and it goes there, no muss no fuss.

This TT is somewhat quieter than her 2001 but it is really a driver's car -- very involving. Moreso than any of the A6 based cars I have driven.

The allroad when compared to the TT doesn't "dart" at all -- it arcs its way into curves, whereas the TT hugs the curve with virtually no body roll. The TT with the 20mm lowered suspension must be literally "on rails."

The 1.8T 225HP engine, even this young, has lots of urge too. I wish that Audi would offer the 225 version of the 1.8T in an A4 with sport suspension, seats and big wheels and tires!

Of course, it just wouldn't do having the 4 banger have more HP than the 3.0 -- but I think it would be sweeeeeeeeet.

She has the suede steering wheel -- wow, no need for a heated wheel with that option.

End of report.

lecram777 · November 2002

Just got my brakes changed at a non audi shop. I bought the pads without sensors by accident. they still work though however I get this all the time now (0). Assuming that's the brake light symbol. Is there any way to get rid of that brake light?

nevcool · November 2002

Hi, I Live in Western PA where it snows and is fairly hilly. I'm looking at the 325i and the Audi 1.8Q. The BMW dealers say that a 325i with snow tires is fine, but I have my doubts.

- Can the 325i with snow tires cut it in the winter?

- Is the 325xi worth the extra cash?

- Is the Audi A4 1.8Q a better choice?

- Is there another Sedan I should look at?

nevcool · November 2002

Hi,

I like the A4 1.8, but feel that it's kind of sluggish. Does anyone have any experience using a chip to boost the HP Good or Bad. If it's done at a dealer does it still violate the warranty?

bodydouble · November 2002

You have to often go uphill in snow? I wouldn't get RWD, snow tire or no snow tire.

ramez600 · November 2002

I am about to buy a audi from Bell in NJ I have the dealer at 31,000 incl.dest. but before taxes and dealer fees for a 1.8t quattro, auto,premium package,cold weather, 16" wheels,xenon and mettalic paint. Do you think I can chew them down a little further, other audi dealers were only willing to go a 1,000 under MSRP.

markcincinnati · November 2002

My wife's first TT -- a 180hp 2000 (she has had 2 225 HP TT's since then without needing to chip) -- seemed a bit underpowered. We bought an MTM chip and a high performance airfilter. The dealer did the chipping for us.

When ever we had either maintenance or warranty issues, they were still 100% taken care of by Audi. No issues that I know of were ever related to the chip.

We bought the "mildest" chip at the time, which raised HP by 15 and torque by over 70 lb ft!

The 180HP TT w/chip actually could pull more strongly in 1st and second gear than the 225HP she got later.

The only real issue is that the torque comes on (the NEW torque) at a bit higher RPM which means that there appears to be a bit of turbo lag from a dead stop -- but the rush is incredible.

The MTM chip came from joe hoppen motorsports and I did everything at the dealer and used Fed Ex car was out of service two full days.

Night and day difference in the car.

marleybarr · November 2002

DOes adding the high performance air filter,(I believe from K and L), without chipping the 2.7T, would make some performance gains, or atleast would be worth the cost of the special air filter?

mtofan · November 2002

I'm thinking of getting a 1998 or 1999 Audi A4 Quattro (2.8L). Does one have less problems than the other. Do these cars last long. Should I pay a couple thousand dollars more for lower mileage or is an A4 with 60 000 miles ok.

vocus · November 2002

The symbol on the dash you are seeing (0) is the brake pad symbol. It won't go out until you change to the pads with sensors.

andys120 · November 2002

I imagine the 2.7T seems quieter to you than the 4.2 because the turbos muffle the sound of the exhaust. This is common w turbo cars (probably even more so w 2 turbos), even race cars.

markcincinnati · November 2002

I also imagine the allroad 2.7T is quieter since the floorpan is 20% thicker.

The airfilter is K&N -- and it makes the intake more audible and since it is improving the breathing, the claim is that it makes the car have a few more HP and a pound or two more of torque.

I do not know exactly what to say you could expect. The airfilter alone probably does make some difference -- but on the TT it was coupled with a chip -- so the difference was major.

lecram777 · November 2002

That's what I thought. I guess I'll ride it out for now then replace after a few thousand miles. Learned my lesson though, took it to a non audi specialist and they installed my bottom panel incorrectly which led to losing the original bolts. Now they're fixing it for me, hope they do it correctly.

thanks again.

markcincinnati · November 2002

With no intention of making this a criticism of anyone's activities I will state that the problems folks have had with non-dealer repairs or even oil changes, etc. has completely put me off of using non-dealers. Maybe if I were ever out of warranty (which if you know my feelings, you know is not likely to happen) I would consider a non-dealer.

The risks $$$ are too high. As they say penny wise. . .

sross · November 2002

I think it all depends on the mechanic's experience with Audis. My independent mechanic works with Audis a lot, and he's given me excellent service at a very reasonable price. I was sure my control arm was broken, and he found the problem was actually with my tires (tread separation). He would have loved the $$ for fixing the suspension, but he was right: the new tires fixed everything.
Interestingly, I was referred to him by the mechanic I used for my Golf and Accord--they considered themselves VW specialists but preferred to send Audis to the other mechanic.
I bought my A4 used from a VW dealer. Extended warranty wasn't offerred, and although I've had a few problems over the last 3 years, the warranty wouldn't have been worth it for me.

racerx2001 · November 2002

You all have been very helpful so far and I appreciate any input!

I'm in the process of negotiating a deal on an A4 blk/beige CVT premium w/ xenon. Before I negotiated I had asked the dealer to list each charges (license/registration, inv tax) and there were no mention of ad fees or prep fees (I remember asking about it at one point and was told no). But then, after we finally agreed on a price over invoice, I suddenly get a $330 of ad fee/prep fee/dock fees from the sales manager. Granted, I managed to get a price of $650 over invoice, and with this charge it comes to almost 1K. What do you guys think? I have another dealer that is out of state that has agreed to $500 over invoice with no additional charges for the same car, and they are on my way back from Thanksgiving break. But the first dealer is closer and seem like a real cool guy. Need some advice. I've also started thinking about getting an 02 model instead, thus forgoing the leather. Please advise!

dtwleungnyc · November 2002

You need to ask yourself this question, since this is your money. After you buy the car, where do you plan to bring it in for the service? If from the first dealer, then get it from them even if it costs couple hundreds more.

Don't want to sound too, with lack of a better word, elitist. But when I was shopping for my A6, the price difference from the original dealer I talked to when compared to a different one was $400. The deciding factor was that the original dealer was honest with me from the get go, so I rationalized that what's $400 when I am getting a $42k car? In the end, I actually came out on top, as they got me a car with an free upgraded sound system, which would had cost me roughly $1000 more? So I am technically $600 ahead. And my dealership service experience has been satisfactory so far. 8)

What I am trying to say is this, don't just look at the price, look at the overall picture.

But in the end, its your money. Good luck.

markcincinnati · November 2002

. . .that lists the reasons people buy cars. The interesting thing is that a first time {Audi} buyer's number one reason for buying is price. IF this same buyer purchases a subsequent {Audi} one, price drops to #10 (there are only 10 reasons).

Funny, well maybe a paradox, generally those who get the best deals (price) in their minds, are the least satisfied and from the dealer's standpoint are the customers they hope to never see again.

Cars are not gasoline or corn flakes or toilet tissue -- at least cars in this "class" are not, IMHO.

As my dealer says (the one who owns both a Porsche/Audi dealership and a stand alone VW dealership) -- the customers of these marquis are like night a day. The Porsche/Audi customer cares about the car, its features, functions and benefits and how he/she is going to be treated when returning for service -- and the VW customer just cares about "getting the deal done."

Oh, BTW, the repeat buyer's #1 reason for buying is "experience with the dealership after the sale" (which is distinct from "Dealer's Reputation" which doesn't change much in its ability to influence such a purchase -- I think it is number 4 or 5 in importance for both first timers and repeaters.)

Worry about the post sale treatment -- which will probably be around 3 years in duration, rather than pre sale which will at most be several days.

Sticker is a good price, IF you are happy with the "total experience" 3 years later and become a repeat customer.

bjudd1 · November 2002

The difference in price isn't that much considering there is no guarantee you'll get the price you were quoted from the second dealer (refer to your experience with the first dealer). Despite the dishonesty, I think 1000 over invoice with ad/prep fees is pretty good. Personally, I would take it. You're not going to do that much better, and the hassle of shopping around for a few more bucks probably isn't worth your time.

bjudd1 · November 2002

Have you ever heard the term "a fool and his money soon go separate ways"? Sorry to disagree, but paying sticker is for saps. Why on earth would anyone pay a dealer sticker, when he or she could pay 1500-2000 over invoice on the internet with no haggling, no driving around from dealer to dealer, no negotiating, etc. In fact, I would argue that the only reason to buy from a dealer is to see if you can get a better deal than the internet. And it is like buying anything else, whether its cheetos or a diamond ring, it just costs a lot more.

markcincinnati · November 2002

that anyone actually pay sticker. I said that paying sticker would be OK IF the buyer would be happy with total experience.

I do not advocate paying sticker -- although plent of people paid sticker for their Porches and the first round of TT's were often sold at sticker (we got $1000 off our 2000 TT). Moreover, plenty of people -- who are happy with their purchases -- paid over sticker for cars including the PT Cruiser, etc.

The lowest price, epescially in automobiles, is rarely the best deal. Now for Commodities -- not Audis -- I agree with your Internet comment.

With all due respect, your argument pertaining to only buying from a dealer if his/her deal is better than the Internet cannot be defended based on the behaviors of most buyers and based on the first time buyer's versus subsequent buyer's reason for buying.

weijietang · November 2002

Audi A4, the model with memory seats and mirrors has a malfunction. As a selling point, the two remote keys can be assigned to two different seat and mirror positions, so if husband or wife open the car with their keys, the seat and mirror can restore to his/hers position. The bug is the right mirror can not be restored.

The bug makes this big selling point useless since you need to push the button to restore the position anyway. And it is a potancial danger since you are easily ignore the right mirror until you are on the road. Then try to push the button on the door.

I struggled with this problem for my new 2002 A4 3.0 for nearly 1 year, talk to dealer, AudiUSA and AudiUSA field rep many times. About half year ago, the field rep let me stop complaining and tell me it will be fixed in 2003 model. But now, it turned out it still not functional in 2003 model and I was told they just does not want to fix it and put it as work per design.

It is horrible for Audi not to fix such an apparent problem for such a long time, and looks like there is no way certain level of decision-maker can hear customers voice.

dinu01 · November 2002

service at the same place you bought your car.

Dinu

dtwleungnyc · November 2002

Dinu01, you are correct that you don't have to service where you bought the car. I personally have experience having service done at a dealership where I did not buy the car from, and I can honestly say that I was treated differently than those that bought their car from the dealer. Did I complain? no, but I did question the service manager about this, and he stated that this is one of their selling point to potential customers. Bascially, customers that bought their car there will get in line for service first for unscheduled warranty repairs compared to cars bought from other dealership. Fair? IMHO, yes. Do I have a problem with this policy? No. As long as it was explained to me.

markcincinnati · November 2002

First time buyer Experienced buyer

1. Price 1. Dealer Experience
2. Styling 2. Customer References
3. Salesperson 3. Availability of Service
4. Features 4. Styling
5. Reliability 5. Brand Image
6. Brand Image 6. Financing options
7. Availability of Service 7. Features
8. Dealer Experience 8. Reliability
9. Financing Options 9. Salesperson
10. Customer References 10. Price

I do not know all the parameters that went into this, I do not know if this was age or gender "biased" -- and I do not know if it is valid in any way other than to provide "market based" information to consumers, manufacturers and/or dealers.

I found it a couple of years ago and copied it to a Word document -- for the most part, it seems to track well with anecdotal experiences, my personal experiences and the conversations I have had with my dealer principal.

My dealer claims that the Internet is a great tool for the customer to get information and that it is a poor place to buy a car (see above list, I presume). A possible future is that cars can be purchased from the Internet and will either be unsupported by a dealer (which is not the same as un warranted) or that the functions that are normally assumed as part of the selling function will be no longer "free."

I buy lots of products from the Internet -- but at this particular evolution of the car manufacturing, delivery and support system -- we need all the help we can get from the dealerships. In that context, and only as a method to make a point, sticker price is reasonable IF the customer can be made happy overall. And, to repeat, I generally consider that I have been made a satisfied customer and I have never paid sticker.

I simply started down this path because it would appear that we are focusing on the price of the car at acqusition time rather than looking more strategically into the total ownership experience which MAY be degraded somewhat if our entire focus is to hammer the dealership out of every last possible nickle.

Balance of nature or something like that. . . .

dinu01 · November 2002

Not so at Mazda. I call and tell them when I'm coming in and they take my car inside w/in 10 minutes and finish my oil change asap. Done this at 2 dealers, but I now prefer one - the one closer to me.

Dinu

rayainsw · November 2002

This link may be of interest:

www.btoauto.com

Cheers,
- Ray
Who believes that (despite some challenges) something like this might someday come to pass. . .

dtwleungnyc · November 2002

Good for you, and I guess we can chalk this one up as "your mileage may vary".

markcincinnati · November 2002

Wow! I wonder if this will really take off? I wonder if cars will be available that people really can afford? And, I wonder what will be done about a servicing dealer network?

This, web site bto, seems to me to be what current car manufacturers COULD do -- by that I mean mass customization.

Right now, you can sign on to the Audi website and configure your car -- but not order it -- yet.

Also you can't really customize it other than by virtue of options, etc.

It would seem to be only the next generation of software away to allow customers to order their cars from the factory on-line or on-line at the dealership.

The German website actually allows much more mix and matching, so much so that after you have configured your new Audi, a program runs to find out if you have ordered things that are in conflict with each other -- check out the European configurators (I think you can configure and "check for consistency" on the Audi and VW UK web sites which allow these functions to be visualized in English!)

This stuff is really getting exciting.

I still would not want to "go naked" without the dealer network and support, however -- which I assume will have to be "priced in" somehow. Perhaps the dealers of the future will be merely delivery and service organizations, no longer sales organizations.

I don't know if that would lower the price (although it should) of new cars, and I don't know if people would be happy to buy cars totally from the web and the reading of literature and reviews, but this looks like at least an interesting concept.

I tried to find info about cars direct.com bytheway and I cannot find their symbol to check their balance sheet and p&l to see if the concept is just burning OPM (Other People's Money) or if it is a long term viable business model.

Are they, Carsdirect.com a public co?

Anyone?

Anyway, it still appears that the reason to buy a car is not price (within reason, of course) but after acquisition experience (you may call them dealer or supplier or consultant -- but the customer will rate his/her car on the total ownership experience long after the pleasure of another $1000 off of the sticker is forgotten).

marleybarr · November 2002

As the system is set up now, no matter what info one may find on the Internet, the Audi buyer will never know the true wholesale price of a particular Audi that the dealer pays through AoA.

I don't believe even the salesmen know the exact price--just a "red line" that can't be crossed!

That information is secret and confidential-only a handfull of select people-like the sales manager and the owner/principal of the dealership will ever know those figures.

davking · November 2002

I don't know the wholesale price of anything I buy.

bodydouble · November 2002

Unless I misunderstood, I agree with what mark has been saying. I don't think he recommends that people buy at list. His point simply was that price should not be THE determining factor. So far I've never bought an "high end" car. But I still have resisted buying from auto lease brokers, buying services, professional associations, etc. even though I knew I could have gotten a lower price thru those channels. I certainly would not buy via internet at this point. Personally I just feel better if I can establish a direct relationship with the people I'm buying from. After all, next to my house, a car is probably my biggest expenditure. I want to have that after-sale support if needed (even though for most Japanese brands that support is not a red carpet treatment).

As for service, I can only speak from personal experience on Hondas, but some of the best service I've received has been from a non-selling dealer. It may come down to the quality of the service rep, but I have not experenced any bias against an out-of-dealer car. In fact, this one rep even offered to wash my other car which was not serviced there!

scirocco22 · November 2002

Mark-- Other than Scott Painter being the Chairman of BTO and a co-founder of CarsDirect.com, what is the connection between BTO and CarsDirect.com?

I don't believe that CarsDirect.com is a public company but their list of principals and investors behind it are impressive. They include such companies as Amazon.com, Asbury, United Auto Group, Penske, Oracle, George Soros; among others. Click here for information about CarsDirect.com, the company

The business models of BTO and CarsDirect seem entirely different. CarsDirect.com is a buying service where BTO seems to be an independent builder of cars. Can somebody explain how the two are related?

TIA

--'rocco

audibon · November 2002

Well, it has happened. I was involved in an accident on the way to work yesterday on I-294. The other driver was not paying attention and rear ended my A4 square on the bumper. Not a lot of apparent damage but more underlying problems were noticed by the estimator at the body shop. His car actually slid under and did some damage that way as well. The bumper and absorbing system did its job though, no airbags deployed and the trunk still opens and closes fine. It could have been worse, especially if I had been pushed into the car in front of me but that didn't happen as I left plenty of space between cars. The other driver has insurance (Thank goodness) and he admitted fault so my expenses will be covered. I can say I am disappointed that it happened but it can be repaired and should look better than new when done. I think when vehicles have side or front end damage they never drive the same but rear end damage is usually not too bad. I am very impressed with the Audi, the structure and design did its job and protected me from injury, especially impressive since he slammed into me at about 40 to 50 mph! The damages so far: $2400 which may go higher once they remove the bumper and find anything else that needs attention. A small price to pay for peace of mind in my opinion. Drive safe!
Brian

scirocco22 · November 2002

Brian-- Good to hear from you but sorry it had to be about rather bad news. Well, good news in a way ...it's good you weren't injured and your car will survive without any structural damage. And it's indeed good that the other driver admitted guilt and had insurance. It's such a hassle when they don't. He actually hit you at 40-50 mph and that's all the damage that was done? Yes, that IS quite impressive! ...and you didn't even suffer whiplash? Very impressive!

--'rocco

vocus · November 2002

Brian, glad you are ok.

These cars have very good structural rigidity. I know someone on VWVortex was hit at 45mph, broadside, by a semi, and he was in a Jetta. The car was totalled of course, but he walked away with a bruise. Very good showing.

A co-worker of mine was rear-ended in her Jetta, and it did $3300 worth of damage. The guy who hit her was going 35mph, not paying attention in the rain in a Saturn SL.

markcincinnati · November 2002

I was interested, conceptually, in the bto concept. And, I spent some time on their web site. I found the "serial entrepreneur" comments about Painter and I wanted to find out how his "previous born" were doing. I know several people in the venture capital business who said that NOW it is important to look at the track records of people who have "great ideas" that are not yet fully realized. In other words, raising X dollars and building a company was almost as easy as writing on a napkin back when the NASDAQ was heading toward 5,000 -- there was so much venture money to be had.

And, raising millions and taking a company public is often what the INVESTORS wanted as their exit stratedgy. I was just interested in seeing if a concept that I thought sounded promising was being headed up by someone who had been by some measure very successful.

So, the connection between the two companies per se is zilch. But the top dog, so to speak, is a common denominator.

I personally love the concept and wonder if there is enough money to make it go.

Moreover, in the light of the topics we discuss here on edmunds (all over the board that is) I was just thinking (or writing) out loud that transacting business with a human being at a dealer, being a repeat customer and having a good overall dealer experience is worth a couple of points -- and that I find our conversations regarding "can I get another $100 off this $40,000 car" to somehow, sometimes miss the point when one is speaking of a class of car this expensive and cars, in general, which have been identified as most people's second biggest (repetitive) purchase.

It all got started when I quipped that sticker is a reasonable price to pay IF the total experience with buying and actually living with the car has been at least satisfactory, followed by my further clarification that I was not literally suggesting that one pay sticker.

These boards are great -- but sometimes the spirit of what is being said is missed due to the literal words that are typed -- generally speaking I have no quarrel with attempting to get the best deal -- but I would not say that the best deal is always "the lowest price."

The horse, if not dead, has been hopefully sufficiently beaten this go 'round.

New players (participants) to this board who are looking to buy their very first European car, their very first Audi (or car in this class) need to know there is at least one other viewpoint -- and that that viewpoint includes price as a deciding factor, but a factor that is not terribly high on the list of "reasons to buy." I think the edmunds board not as a forum to simply engage others in a sanity check for price -- as in, "can I beat this deal?" IMHO, we (who actively and frequently participate on this town hall) are more about the ownership experience than we are about just the price negotiating exercise.

One man's (biased) opinion.

audibon · November 2002

Thanks for the input 'Rocco and Vocus! No, I didn't get whiplash at all, but my wife jokingly said I should have claimed it. :-) He hit me so hard and fast that my transponder for our tollway system came off the velcro on the windshield, the sunroof shade opened, and I lost a clip for the front spoiler lip or it may have just popped out again. The front spoiler lip is junk anyway from before due to a curb and my errant parking. I'll let Audi replace it under warranty. I just wanted to let everyone know in the colder climates to be aware now that the seasons have changed to be more in tune with the road and traffic conditions. It may save your life and the hassle of an accident. Safe motoring.
Brian

bjudd1 · November 2002

I concur that haggling over a hundred dollars can't compare to the "ownership experience", but I do think that pricing questions are an appropriate topic, given the website. Many people who visit edmunds.com (and other sites that provide a host of pricing info) are actively involved in purchasing a car and are simply looking for some reassurance that they are getting a good, or at least fair, deal. Having been burned in the past from other poor car buying experiences, many people are wary of the car buying process. The reassurance from other participants that they are getting a fair price benefits both the buyer and the seller and will make for a much better buying experience. Besides, there are plenty of other forums that are better suited for auto enthusiasts. The bottom line is many people visit this website for pricing info (see edmunds.com home page, top of screen - "Don't get taken for a ride.".

markcincinnati · November 2002

What I sometimes find a tiny bit inappropriate is the apparent desire to hammer the dealer -- or Beat the Dealer.

C'mon down and let's play beat the dealer. . .today's contestant is a CPA from Atlanta who thinks the dealer is a crook and is going to let him know that his deal is a crock.

My point is to strike a balance between trying to "take" the dealer versus the almost self fulfilling prophecy that the dealer is trying to "take" the customer -- and the associated pre and post sales relationship that often engenders.

dtwleungnyc · November 2002

Sometime I have to chuckle when someone posts a $ amount and ask did he get a good deal or not. What if someone, from somewhere else post that they beat that price by $1?

dinu01 · November 2002

When buying a car I understand the dealer has to make his profit or else he wouldn't be in business. As long as the dealer understands he needs to provide me an honest price, we have a deal.

When I bought my Protege (I know, not an Audi) I got $1400 off the price (basically the A/C and spoiler for free - all Canadian funds), a monthly pymt I am comfortable with, the car delivered w/in the 1 week I was promised, no hidden fees and an honest deal from both sides. As long as both sides work together to get a deal done, not to $cr#w each other, everything should be fine.

At another dealer, I was quoted $500 above MSRP!!! That guy wanted to rip me off, so I laughed at him and left the place.

Dinu

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy